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Luas - a system in decline

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    #92
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    The Moldy Gowl wrote: »
    Has this only happened once in the last month and maybe 1/2 other times in the last 18 months?
    I can only remember the last one from a few weeks ago, and a vague memory of another. This is from me getting the luas a few stops down from blackhorse between 8 and 8:30 so they probably had the issue fixed by them.

    I don't know how many times it has happened in the last month because I drive to work now. Certainly it happened enough times (coupled with the assault in broad daylight) while I travelled on it to convince me that driving was the better option. I remember several incidents of being stranded at Kingswood too, where it is difficult to find a bus stop! :D


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    #93
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,440 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    Technical fault on the Green line this morning causing delays


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    #94
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,218 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Double deck trams were of their time (1880s-1930s) when speed wasn't the priority. Trams mutated into light rail and if you want to see them the best place is Crich, Derbyshire. :)



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eymkg5GfzuA

    The best place to see double decker teams is on Hong Kong island and then to realise how much people have increased in size over the past 100 years!


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    #95
    heffo500
    Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭heffo500


    devnull wrote: »
    The number of trams, frequency and the length of trams on the Red Line have all been increased since the red line was opened, so it is wrong to say that there was no future proofing because it had some built in but there will always be such limitations of a light rail system above ground.

    The problem is with a successful light rail system that has interaction with road junctions there is only so much future proofing you can do as you run out of land to extend platforms or just get trams stuck behind each other in the line and the system becomes a victim of it's own success.

    This is why countries use heavy rail and underground because youhave more space to work with via dedicated infrastructure that you don't need to share with other modes for the most part, and it's easier to extend later on. However light rail is generally cheaper so countries often go for that, but the problem is sooner or later you hit a cap on capacity much earlier than on a heavy rail line.

    Trams have a place, certainly but the kind of distances the Red and Green lines travel really would be better off as metro or heavy rail with trams used for shorter trips like they are in other cities.

    I think the red line would be drastically improved if they used the extra platform at Heuston to have a tram continuously go from there to Connolly. Anyone going further stays on the main platform and anyone going as far as Connolly takes the other tram.

    There also needs to be a crowd management system implemented at Heuston as it is dangerous with the queues four deep and everyone constantly pushing and giving people barely any room to get off which is also slowing the whole process.


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    #96
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    Great service, use red line every day love it, Ireland full of whingers.


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    #97
    machaseh
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭machaseh


    heffo500 wrote: »
    I think the red line would be drastically improved if they used the extra platform at Heuston to have a tram continuously go from there to Connolly. Anyone going further stays on the main platform and anyone going as far as Connolly takes the other tram.

    There also needs to be a crowd management system implemented at Heuston as it is dangerous with the queues four deep and everyone constantly pushing and giving people barely any room to get off which is also slowing the whole process.

    Irish people have a very very bad discipline in letting people off first before entering the tram. In this sense they are way ruder and worse behaved than in my own country (netherlands) where we always let people off the train before we enter.

    You can't change the mind of the people but what you could do is make EXIT ONLY tram doors which could be enforced with a little turnstyle and an exit only sign or whatever. This would allow people to get off the tram more easily during rush hour. The people entering can do so at the other doors.


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    #98
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,790 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    used the Red Line today from Naas Rd into town, it was impressively packed. Some people got on at Heuston but a lot were left behind (though there was another tram 2 mins behind). What happened to the Heuston-Connolly shuttles?

    The section from Heuston to Connolly is stupidly slow - the only place you could argue the Luas shouldn't have full priority is O'Connell St because of the volume of buses and the other Luas line, everywhere else it should have absolute priority. Museum, Smithfield and Four Courts stops are also ridiculously close together. Why spend 100s of millions on a tram system to have it sit at traffic lights while cars and half-empty buses go by.


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    #99
    machaseh
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭machaseh


    loyatemu wrote: »
    used the Red Line today from Naas Rd into town, it was impressively packed. Some people got on at Heuston but a lot were left behind (though there was another tram 2 mins behind). What happened to the Heuston-Connolly shuttles?

    The section from Heuston to Connolly is stupidly slow - the only place you could argue the Luas shouldn't have full priority is O'Connell St because of the volume of buses and the other Luas line, everywhere else it should have absolute priority.

    And Amiens street at conolly station, you can also not possibly avoid having the luas wait there due to the enormous volumes of buses.

    You could potentially consider just deleting the Four Courts stop. People can walk to Smithfield or Jervis stops instead, or use the many buses along the Quays which are right besides it. I don't think Museum is particularly close enough to Heuston to justify removing it, plus it serves, well, the museum.


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    #100
    aivilo
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭aivilo


    Mr.S wrote: »
    I think it's also worth saying that the overcrowding has always been an issue during rush hour, since it launched - it's not a new issue!

    No it's gotten much worse the last year in particular. I have used the red line since it opened. It's bordering on Dangerous now at rush hour.


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    #101
    aivilo
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭aivilo


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I'm not from Dublin but used the Luas recently while in the city.

    It was overfull to the point of being a health hazard, people were shoved up against the wall and everything. At one point a pedestrian ran out in front of the Luas causing the driver to slam on the brakes and for it to come to a sudden stop. Everyone fell backwards, some people on top of each other, piling up on the floor.
    A couple of people were hurt but not badly and everyone got a fright.
    I wouldn't be particularly claustraphobic but I was shaking getting off it. Its dangerous at those capacities and someone is going to get badly hurt one of these days.

    This overcrowding happens daily now on the red line.


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    #102
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    They need to rip those stupid seated sections out. What a complete waste of space.


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    #103
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    Sergio Georgini wrote: »
    They need to rip those stupid seated sections out. What a complete waste of space.

    The seats are over the wheels. Luas is a low floor system.
    Metrolink is proposed as a high floor system meaning that the wheels and other equipment can be under the floor and you can put the seats along the sides like the subway, tube etc.


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    #104
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Last Stop wrote: »
    The seats are over the wheels. Luas is a low floor system.
    Metrolink is proposed as a high floor system meaning that the wheels and other equipment can be under the floor and you can put the seats along the sides like the subway, tube etc.

    You learn something new every day!


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    #105
    thenightman
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭thenightman


    11 minute gap between tram just gone and next on red line this morning at 9.25am. Staying on bus is quicker.


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    #106
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    How are there such large gaps?! Can the red line trams not be increased in length ?


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    #107
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭SteM


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    The Luas is OK on the Green Line, purely because it is segregated, mostly following the old Harcourt Street Line.

    The Red Line on the other hand is an absolute pain. It takes forever to get into the city. I don't bother after Heuston, so take any of the buses at Heuston from Lucan direction direct down the buslane on the Quays, far, far quicker than the Luas.

    Cars and traffic lights interfere with the Luas on the Red Line far too much IMO.

    Yeah, I work in Grand Canal Dock. I could walk 5 minutes over to Spencer Dock to get a Luas to Saggart but I find it quicker and much less hassle to get a Dublin Bike and cycle to James's and get on there. The crawl through the city centre is painful imo.


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    #108
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    How are there such large gaps?! Can the red line trams not be increased in length ?

    Not without extending platforms which is likely impossible at a number of stops including The Point and Busaras


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    #109
    machaseh
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭machaseh


    L1011 wrote: »
    Not without extending platforms which is likely impossible at a number of stops including The Point and Busaras

    The Point should be perfectly possible to make longer.

    Busaras is indeed in a tight spot though. Perhaps they could move it to the other side of the road and just remove the Georges Dock stop.


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    #110
    machaseh
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭machaseh


    SteM wrote: »
    Yeah, I work in Grand Canal Dock. I could walk 5 minutes over to Spencer Dock to get a Luas to Saggart but I find it quicker and much less hassle to get a Dublin Bike and cycle to James's and get on there. The crawl through the city centre is painful imo.

    Sounds like a very strange thing to do to me. If you'd get on at Spencer Dock you'd most likely find yourself a seat, even in rush hour, while you might not at Jameses.


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    #111
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    SteM wrote: »
    Yeah, I work in Grand Canal Dock. I could walk 5 minutes over to Spencer Dock to get a Luas to Saggart but I find it quicker and much less hassle to get a Dublin Bike and cycle to James's and get on there. The crawl through the city centre is painful imo.

    The luas is grand going to and coming from heuston.
    Painfully slow. The slow speed through town needs to be balanced by getting priority through the streets.

    Painful having to wait a minute at lights. Should only be 15/20 seconds


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    #112
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    machaseh wrote: »
    Sounds like a very strange thing to do to me. If you'd get on at Spencer Dock you'd most likely find yourself a seat, even in rush hour, while you might not at Jameses.

    Would get one at James as well. Half the tram empties at heuston.


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    #113
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭SteM


    machaseh wrote: »
    Sounds like a very strange thing to do to me. If you'd get on at Spencer Dock you'd most likely find yourself a seat, even in rush hour, while you might not at Jameses.

    You'd be surprised. It's a fight to get on at Spencer Dock any time after 4:30 and you're certainly not guaranteed a seat, especially if there has been any delay inbound. Lots of people get off at Heuston and James's is a much quieter stop. You'll generally get a seat by Rialto if you want one. The big plus is you don't have to put up with all of the city centre traffic.


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    #114
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    SteM wrote: »
    Yeah, I work in Grand Canal Dock. I could walk 5 minutes over to Spencer Dock to get a Luas to Saggart but I find it quicker and much less hassle to get a Dublin Bike and cycle to James's and get on there. The crawl through the city centre is painful imo.

    When I worked near Docklands I used to get the green line to Charlemont, hire a Dublin Bike and cycle down, it's literally a straight line almost and the vast majority of it is downhill. It was massively quicker than any other way,.


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    #115
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    SteM wrote: »
    You'd be surprised. It's a fight to get on at Spencer Dock any time after 4:30 and you're certainly not guaranteed a seat, especially if there has been any delay inbound. Lots of people get off at Heuston and James's is a much quieter stop. You'll generally get a seat by Rialto if you want one. The big plus is you don't have to put up with all of the city centre traffic.

    No its not. They usually have two trams within 90 sec - 2 mins just after 4.30 and at most 4 minutes apart. Since they increase docklands freq its improved a lot.


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    #116
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    The Moldy Gowl wrote: »
    The luas is grand going to and coming from heuston.
    Painfully slow. The slow speed through town needs to be balanced by getting priority through the streets.

    Painful having to wait a minute at lights. Should only be 15/20 seconds

    Luas was to get priority at the lights but Dublin Bus and the Car Lobby nearly shat themselves at the thought of it. So lobbying meant that trams had no priority.


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    #117
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭SteM


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    No its not. They usually have two trams within 90 sec - 2 mins just after 4.30 and at most 4 minutes apart. Since they increase docklands freq its improved a lot.

    I'm guessing you're saying it's not a fight to get on? I can only speak to my experience.


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    #118
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,158 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Technocentral wrote: »
    Great service, use red line every day love it, Ireland full of whingers.

    It sure was a great service, and it remains arguably a decent service overall - but it’s 15 years old and will inevitably reach capacity over the coming 10 years.

    We can label people “whingers” but the LUAS is not the long term solution to any of Dublin’s traffic problems. Eventually it will grind to a halt with people repeatedly unable to board at peak times. That’s not whinging, just the numbers of the matter. Dart Underground and Metro need to be invested in yesterday or we will risk causing a major self inflicted hit to our economic prosperity and qualify of life.


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    #119
    machaseh
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭machaseh


    SteM wrote: »
    You'd be surprised. It's a fight to get on at Spencer Dock any time after 4:30 and you're certainly not guaranteed a seat, especially if there has been any delay inbound. Lots of people get off at Heuston and James's is a much quieter stop. You'll generally get a seat by Rialto if you want one. The big plus is you don't have to put up with all of the city centre traffic.

    I worked near the Point for a year and a half and didnt notice the luas being particularly full before busaras but yeah dont know. Obviously I always had a seat as I got on at the terminus.

    Would there be any possibility of extending the red luas to places such as Ringsend? Of course the bridge required for that would not be cheap.


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    #120
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,440 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    'Operational reasons' the cause of today's delays.


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    #121
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    SteM wrote: »
    I'm guessing you're saying it's not a fight to get on? I can only speak to my experience.

    I use it from The Point daily between anytime after 4-5 and it's never completely jammed and yes Spencer Dock is busy but not at the point where you couldn't get on unless there has been a major gap in service.


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