Luas - a system in decline

17-10-2019 11:33pm

They need to rip those stupid seated sections out. What a complete waste of space.

Last Stop · 17-10-2019 11:40pm

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

They need to rip those stupid seated sections out. What a complete waste of space.

The seats are over the wheels. Luas is a low floor system.
Metrolink is proposed as a high floor system meaning that the wheels and other equipment can be under the floor and you can put the seats along the sides like the subway, tube etc.

18-10-2019 9:06am

Last Stop wrote: »

The seats are over the wheels. Luas is a low floor system.
Metrolink is proposed as a high floor system meaning that the wheels and other equipment can be under the floor and you can put the seats along the sides like the subway, tube etc.

You learn something new every day!

thenightman · 18-10-2019 9:23am

11 minute gap between tram just gone and next on red line this morning at 9.25am. Staying on bus is quicker.

Idbatterim · 18-10-2019 9:27am

How are there such large gaps?! Can the red line trams not be increased in length ?

SteM · 18-10-2019 9:30am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The Luas is OK on the Green Line, purely because it is segregated, mostly following the old Harcourt Street Line.

The Red Line on the other hand is an absolute pain. It takes forever to get into the city. I don't bother after Heuston, so take any of the buses at Heuston from Lucan direction direct down the buslane on the Quays, far, far quicker than the Luas.

Cars and traffic lights interfere with the Luas on the Red Line far too much IMO.

Yeah, I work in Grand Canal Dock. I could walk 5 minutes over to Spencer Dock to get a Luas to Saggart but I find it quicker and much less hassle to get a Dublin Bike and cycle to James's and get on there. The crawl through the city centre is painful imo.

L1011 · 18-10-2019 9:43am

Idbatterim wrote: »

How are there such large gaps?! Can the red line trams not be increased in length ?

Not without extending platforms which is likely impossible at a number of stops including The Point and Busaras

machaseh · 18-10-2019 9:49am

L1011 wrote: »

Not without extending platforms which is likely impossible at a number of stops including The Point and Busaras

The Point should be perfectly possible to make longer.

Busaras is indeed in a tight spot though. Perhaps they could move it to the other side of the road and just remove the Georges Dock stop.

machaseh · 18-10-2019 9:51am

SteM wrote: »

Yeah, I work in Grand Canal Dock. I could walk 5 minutes over to Spencer Dock to get a Luas to Saggart but I find it quicker and much less hassle to get a Dublin Bike and cycle to James's and get on there. The crawl through the city centre is painful imo.

Sounds like a very strange thing to do to me. If you'd get on at Spencer Dock you'd most likely find yourself a seat, even in rush hour, while you might not at Jameses.

The Moldy Gowl · 18-10-2019 9:54am

SteM wrote: »

Yeah, I work in Grand Canal Dock. I could walk 5 minutes over to Spencer Dock to get a Luas to Saggart but I find it quicker and much less hassle to get a Dublin Bike and cycle to James's and get on there. The crawl through the city centre is painful imo.

The luas is grand going to and coming from heuston.
Painfully slow. The slow speed through town needs to be balanced by getting priority through the streets.

Painful having to wait a minute at lights. Should only be 15/20 seconds

The Moldy Gowl · 18-10-2019 9:55am

machaseh wrote: »

Sounds like a very strange thing to do to me. If you'd get on at Spencer Dock you'd most likely find yourself a seat, even in rush hour, while you might not at Jameses.

Would get one at James as well. Half the tram empties at heuston.

SteM · 18-10-2019 10:05am

machaseh wrote: »

Sounds like a very strange thing to do to me. If you'd get on at Spencer Dock you'd most likely find yourself a seat, even in rush hour, while you might not at Jameses.

You'd be surprised. It's a fight to get on at Spencer Dock any time after 4:30 and you're certainly not guaranteed a seat, especially if there has been any delay inbound. Lots of people get off at Heuston and James's is a much quieter stop. You'll generally get a seat by Rialto if you want one. The big plus is you don't have to put up with all of the city centre traffic.

devnull · 18-10-2019 10:19am

SteM wrote: »

Yeah, I work in Grand Canal Dock. I could walk 5 minutes over to Spencer Dock to get a Luas to Saggart but I find it quicker and much less hassle to get a Dublin Bike and cycle to James's and get on there. The crawl through the city centre is painful imo.

When I worked near Docklands I used to get the green line to Charlemont, hire a Dublin Bike and cycle down, it's literally a straight line almost and the vast majority of it is downhill. It was massively quicker than any other way,.

Jamie2k9 · 18-10-2019 10:29am

SteM wrote: »

You'd be surprised. It's a fight to get on at Spencer Dock any time after 4:30 and you're certainly not guaranteed a seat, especially if there has been any delay inbound. Lots of people get off at Heuston and James's is a much quieter stop. You'll generally get a seat by Rialto if you want one. The big plus is you don't have to put up with all of the city centre traffic.

No its not. They usually have two trams within 90 sec - 2 mins just after 4.30 and at most 4 minutes apart. Since they increase docklands freq its improved a lot.

Lord Glentoran · 18-10-2019 10:36am

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

The luas is grand going to and coming from heuston.
Painfully slow. The slow speed through town needs to be balanced by getting priority through the streets.

Painful having to wait a minute at lights. Should only be 15/20 seconds

Luas was to get priority at the lights but Dublin Bus and the Car Lobby nearly shat themselves at the thought of it. So lobbying meant that trams had no priority.

SteM · 18-10-2019 10:49am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

No its not. They usually have two trams within 90 sec - 2 mins just after 4.30 and at most 4 minutes apart. Since they increase docklands freq its improved a lot.

I'm guessing you're saying it's not a fight to get on? I can only speak to my experience.

LuckyLloyd · 18-10-2019 1:53pm

Technocentral wrote: »

Great service, use red line every day love it, Ireland full of whingers.

It sure was a great service, and it remains arguably a decent service overall - but it’s 15 years old and will inevitably reach capacity over the coming 10 years.

We can label people “whingers” but the LUAS is not the long term solution to any of Dublin’s traffic problems. Eventually it will grind to a halt with people repeatedly unable to board at peak times. That’s not whinging, just the numbers of the matter. Dart Underground and Metro need to be invested in yesterday or we will risk causing a major self inflicted hit to our economic prosperity and qualify of life.

machaseh · 18-10-2019 3:34pm

SteM wrote: »

You'd be surprised. It's a fight to get on at Spencer Dock any time after 4:30 and you're certainly not guaranteed a seat, especially if there has been any delay inbound. Lots of people get off at Heuston and James's is a much quieter stop. You'll generally get a seat by Rialto if you want one. The big plus is you don't have to put up with all of the city centre traffic.

I worked near the Point for a year and a half and didnt notice the luas being particularly full before busaras but yeah dont know. Obviously I always had a seat as I got on at the terminus.

Would there be any possibility of extending the red luas to places such as Ringsend? Of course the bridge required for that would not be cheap.

LollipopJimmy · 18-10-2019 8:54pm

'Operational reasons' the cause of today's delays.

Jamie2k9 · 19-10-2019 9:27am

SteM wrote: »

I'm guessing you're saying it's not a fight to get on? I can only speak to my experience.

I use it from The Point daily between anytime after 4-5 and it's never completely jammed and yes Spencer Dock is busy but not at the point where you couldn't get on unless there has been a major gap in service.

LollipopJimmy · 21-10-2019 8:26am

Technical fault caused delays this morning. The system is clearly maintained to the cheapest possible standards

LollipopJimmy · 29-01-2020 1:26pm

Anybody following the Luas twitter feed?

It's an absolute joke at the moment, almost every working day in January there have been delays due to 'operational' reasons, so much so they have now stopped using the term until they are pressed on a reason for the delay.

Idbatterim · 29-01-2020 3:33pm

what a joke ! what is causing these issues?

LollipopJimmy · 29-01-2020 3:40pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

what a joke ! what is causing these issues?

Nobody seems to know.

CatInABox · 29-01-2020 3:56pm

Presume that it's teething problems related to Transdev recently taking over the running of the maintenance part of the contract. The transfer happened in December, I believe.

I'd say the fact that Alstom knew that they weren't going to get the contract renewed didn't help either, why spend money fixing problems when you're just going to have to give away the fruits of your labour in a few months

bureau2009 · 29-01-2020 4:44pm

My worst, most dangerous travel experience ever?

The subway, NYC?

London Underground?

No.

Luas at Heuston Station this morning. Such was the rush and crush that someone will get seriously injured if not killed.

riclad · 29-01-2020 5:01pm

At rush hour 300 thousand people are going to work , i dont think they can improve the luas by adding on more trams ,
it would slow down other traffic .
The solution is more high density building in the city centre which would reduce commuting time.
they could build more luas tracks and add more cycle pathways .
I,m not an expert but there,s a limit to the no of trams they can use on existing routes to run the service at high levels of safety.
i don,t think 15 seconds is a safe time to wait,
they have to sound the bell before they cross a road intersection to warn
pedestrians to clear the crossing point.
Theres no simple easy solution to the peak time traffic congestion in dublin.

SteM · 29-01-2020 5:03pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Presume that it's teething problems related to Transdev recently taking over the running of the maintenance part of the contract. The transfer happened in December, I believe.

I'd say the fact that Alstom knew that they weren't going to get the contract renewed didn't help either, why spend money fixing problems when you're just going to have to give away the fruits of your labour in a few months

Maybe but it's a really ****ty time of the year to have teething problems. It's basic stuff like twice I was on a Luas that was going to Saggart but changed to The Square without announcing it, it wasn't me missing it because a bunch of people were caught. Surely the driver knows to do that?

Depending on the evening we were left at Blackhorse, Red Cow or Kingswood to 'get the next Luas', problem is it can be full by the time they get to your stop and if you're going past Belgard you probably won't get the next one because it'll be going to a different destination.

The Red Line commute was so unreliable in December and January that it's pushed me back on the bike. I won't be renewing my annual ticket at the end of Feb.

SteM · 29-01-2020 5:11pm

riclad wrote: »

At rush hour 300 thousand people are going to work , i dont think they can improve the luas by adding on more trams ,
it would slow down other traffic .
The solution is more high density building in the city centre which would reduce commuting time.
they could build more luas tracks and add more cycle pathways .
I,m not an expert but there,s a limit to the no of trams they can use on existing routes to run the service at high levels of safety.
i don,t think 15 seconds is a safe time to wait,
they have to sound the bell before they cross a road intersection to warn
pedestrians to clear the crossing point.
Theres no simple easy solution to the peak time traffic congestion in dublin.

The red line service could be improved by enforcing box junctions in the city centre which would cut down delays in and out of the city in rush hour. There's no political will to improve the service because it seems our public servants travel to work by car and crappy public transport doesn't effect them.

cee_jay · 29-01-2020 6:12pm

Yesterday evening, rush hour, was a complete joke on the red line. 10 minute delay due to operational reasons, coupled with a matinee show finishing in the 3 arena meant complete chaos on the line. I got on at Connolly around 6pm, so many people standing leaving the first stop. The next tram behind was 14 minutes when we got to Belgard for people to change - the platform at Belgard was so full from the tram previous already.
Surprised it even ran as far as Belgard (and onwards to Saggart) - many evenings you have to get out at Red Cow and wait for the next.

The Nal · 29-01-2020 6:23pm

The only solutions is underground. Anything else is píssing into the wind.

29-01-2020 6:26pm

cee_jay wrote: »

Yesterday evening, rush hour, was a complete joke on the red line. 10 minute delay due to operational reasons, coupled with a matinee show finishing in the 3 arena meant complete chaos on the line. I got on at Connolly around 6pm, so many people standing leaving the first stop. The next tram behind was 14 minutes when we got to Belgard for people to change - the platform at Belgard was so full from the tram previous already.
Surprised it even ran as far as Belgard (and onwards to Saggart) - many evenings you have to get out at Red Cow and wait for the next.

Yesterday was a cold evening to be waiting 14 minutes for a tram.

The Nal · 29-01-2020 6:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yesterday was a cold evening to be waiting 14 minutes for a tram.

And then it takes 50 minutes to get to Tallaght. 50 minutes to a destination thats only 7 miles away.

lol.

29-01-2020 6:42pm

Tweet from @Luas 22 minutes ago:

Luas service will run every 6 mintes as opposed to every 3 minutes during peak travel times. Please allow additional time to travel. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

Might as well stay in work til 7pm. There'll be no chance of getting on the Luas before then.

cee_jay · 29-01-2020 6:49pm

Full Luas update:

Travel Update
5.47pm Wed 29th Jan 2020

Luas services on the Red and Green Lines will run every 6 minutes, as opposed to every 3 minutes, during peak travel times today, Wed 29th Jan, Thu 30th Jan, and Fri 31st Jan.

Customers must allow additional time to travel.

These delays are due to a number of trams being unavailable due to their recent involvement in road traffic collisions. These trams are being repaired by our maintenance teams and will not be returned to service until next week with testing being carried out to ensure they are safe and fit for service.

We remind road users never to amber gamble, break red lights or disobey road signs – particularly around Luas tracks.

The safety of our passengers and staff is our primary concern. All of our teams are working to return the affected trams to service as quickly and as safely as possible. We appreciate the inconvenience and disturbance this may cause and we apologise sincerely to anyone affected by delays over the coming days. We will update you as soon as we have further information and thank you in the meantime for your patience.

devnull · 29-01-2020 7:12pm

They are halving the frequency at peak time because of the amount of trams out of service?

If that is the case, then it'd suggest that the number of trams affected must not be a small number, but I don't remember hearing about more than a handful of recent collisions.

Jamie2k9 · 29-01-2020 7:14pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Presume that it's teething problems related to Transdev recently taking over the running of the maintenance part of the contract. The transfer happened in December, I believe.

I'd say the fact that Alstom knew that they weren't going to get the contract renewed didn't help either, why spend money fixing problems when you're just going to have to give away the fruits of your labour in a few months

No so sure about that they had to full fill there contract. After its just the same people and little has changed. Yes there has been a few incidents with trams lately which has probably put them under more pressure.

What I have also noticed over the last 2 months or so is a significant increase in a second person in the cab monitoring drivers. Not so sure they are new recruits, just a little odd given how regularly its been.

I have an idea why this might be but wouldn't want to speculate.

Lord Glentoran · 29-01-2020 7:19pm

e

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

No so sure about that they had to full fill there contract. After its just the same people and little has changed. Yes there has been a few incidents with trams lately which has probably put them under more pressure.

What I have also noticed over the last 2 months or so is a significant increase in a second person in the cab monitoring drivers. Not so sure they are new recruits, just a little odd given how regularly its been.

I have an idea why this might be but wouldn't want to speculate.

Oh you big tease.

Jamie2k9 · 29-01-2020 7:34pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

e

Oh you big tease.

I wouldn't want to incorrectly connect two issues which might be completely unrelated.

I'm sure there are a few tram people browsing who might be able to answer what are the operational issues at present.

Idbatterim · 29-01-2020 7:35pm

you get what you pay for with infrastructure, the luas is a farce for the requirements of this city!

AlekSmart · 29-01-2020 9:39pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I wouldn't want to incorrectly connect two issues which might be completely unrelated.

I'm sure there are a few tram people browsing who might be able to answer what are the operational issues at present.

T.U.P.E related ?

L1011 · 30-01-2020 9:48am

There would also presumably be at least one 5000 series getting stretched at any time but that still doesn't give enough units out

LollipopJimmy · 30-01-2020 10:18am

There were gaps of up to 25minutes this morning. When questioned on twitter they responded with '6 minutes is the average across the service'

PhilOssophy · 30-01-2020 12:53pm

High-density is start of the answer. Have far more people living close to town. Anything else is p1ssing in the wind, including an underground which isn't financially viable given Dublins sprawl/low density.

Tomrota · 30-01-2020 1:24pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

High-density is start of the answer. Have far more people living close to town. Anything else is p1ssing in the wind, including an underground which isn't financially viable given Dublins sprawl/low density.

Then how come Vienna, with a lower population density than Dublin, can have 30 tram lines and 5 metro lines? Hmm.

Why is Dublin among a list of third world countries when rated for congestion? More buses isn’t the answer to mass transit in any universe I’m afraid.

Gael23 · 30-01-2020 1:25pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

High-density is start of the answer. Have far more people living close to town. Anything else is p1ssing in the wind, including an underground which isn't financially viable given Dublins sprawl/low density.

This is the biggest problem. Dublin was allowed to sprawl outwards rather than develop high density

The Nal · 30-01-2020 1:29pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

High-density is start of the answer. Have far more people living close to town. Anything else is p1ssing in the wind, including an underground which isn't financially viable given Dublins sprawl/low density.

Most underground networks aren't financially viable. We need to stop looking at this in such black and white terms, in such linear terms. Thats not the point of public transport. The London underground doesn't turn a profit. The NYC underground loses money. But its gets people to work on time.

The point of a good public transport network is to get people to where they need to get to. How many hours productivity did the city lose this morning due to the delays?

Idbatterim · 30-01-2020 1:33pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

High-density is start of the answer. Have far more people living close to town. Anything else is p1ssing in the wind, including an underground which isn't financially viable given Dublins sprawl/low density.

you dont think higher density would start shooting up all along the line? also that green line if upgraded to metro and continued out to north of swords, would likely take 100,000,000 a year in the first year!!!

Amirani · 30-01-2020 1:40pm

The Nal wrote: »

Most underground networks aren't financially viable. We need to stop looking at this in such black and white terms, in such linear terms. Thats not the point of public transport. The London underground doesn't turn a profit. The NYC underground loses money. But its gets people to work on time.

Absolutely this. When was the last time you heard any of these people asking whether the cost of a new motorway or ring road is financially viable?

Is the new quarter of a billion road in Mayo going to be financially viable or turn a profit? No, it won't, so public transport investments shouldn't need to be justified on financial metrics alone.

Idbatterim · 30-01-2020 1:42pm

Amirani wrote: »

Absolutely this. When was the last time you heard any of these people asking whether the cost of a new motorway or ring road is financially viable?

Is the new quarter of a billion road in Mayo going to be financially viable or turn a profit? No, it won't, so public transport investments shouldn't need to be justified on financial metrics alone.

unlike these rural motorways, these roads will reduce traffic and provide sustainable transit and higher density living! What do the new roads do? create more traffic and roads to maintain, damage habitat, more noise pollution etc...

Luas - a system in decline

Comments