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27-09-2015, 10:52   #76
philstar
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If that was the same match I'm thinking of, he didn't, he pulled the arm part of his shirt, then the in touch player tried to suggest to the ref that he grabbed around the collar. There was a clear replay to show it was fine
it was the Georgia Argentina match
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27-09-2015, 11:05   #77
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it was the Georgia Argentina match
Aye that's the one I was thinking of, because my gf asked me at the time why it wasn't penalised, and then the replay came on and it was clear it wasn't dangerous.
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27-09-2015, 11:10   #78
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I was sure I read somewhere that the lineout their did not need to be completely straight just as long as it was in the corridor after travelling five metres but I can't find it again.
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27-09-2015, 16:42   #79
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At the suggestion of others in the match thread, here's my suggestion for law adjustment. Since it has been pointed out how task saturated most refs are nowadays, they should put some more refs on the field, similar to the NFL. You would have the main ref who makes the final decision on the pitch. Then you could have on field assistants who are tasked with watching different areas. So the head ref keeps track of the immediate action, say ruck, maul etc. The assistants monitor the offside line, watch the defense etc. At scrum time, this could allow for proper scrutiny of the action, with specific areas for each ref to watch.

I would also put a review booth on the sideline for the ref to watch tmo replays in, rather than the big screen in the stadium. This would allow him to see with better fidelity what is being reviewed.
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27-09-2015, 17:15   #80
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Originally Posted by AbusesToilets View Post
At the suggestion of others in the match thread, here's my suggestion for law adjustment. Since it has been pointed out how task saturated most refs are nowadays, they should put some more refs on the field, similar to the NFL. You would have the main ref who makes the final decision on the pitch. Then you could have on field assistants who are tasked with watching different areas. So the head ref keeps track of the immediate action, say ruck, maul etc. The assistants monitor the offside line, watch the defense etc. At scrum time, this could allow for proper scrutiny of the action, with specific areas for each ref to watch.

I would also put a review booth on the sideline for the ref to watch tmo replays in, rather than the big screen in the stadium. This would allow him to see with better fidelity what is being reviewed.
We dont need more referees on the pitch. All the officials 1-5 are micced up and the assistants referees who run the side lines are always communicating with the referee with all manners of things from ruck offside line/maul/scrum.
All of what you say about assistants already happens
We dont need a review booth on the sideline. The big screen is enough and if referee isnt happy with big screen he can go TMO
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27-09-2015, 17:19   #81
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We dont need more referees on the pitch. All the officials 1-5 are micced up and the assistants referees who run the side lines are always communicating with the referee with all manners of things from ruck offside line/maul/scrum.
All of what you say about assistants already happens
We dont need a review booth on the sideline. The big screen is enough and if referee isnt happy with big screen he can go TMO
Look at everything that gets missed currently with that set up though. touch judges don't police things like the offside line well, or call scrum infringements on a regular basis. They are perhaps supposed to but there's no consistency there.
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27-09-2015, 17:31   #82
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Look at everything that gets missed currently with that set up though. touch judges don't police things like the offside line well, or call scrum infringements on a regular basis. They are perhaps supposed to but there's no consistency there.
How do you know the assistants dont call decisions on a regular basis. The referee doesnt indicate who calls the decision but the officials are all micced up and Ar's regularly call issues around offside/scrum
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27-09-2015, 17:34   #83
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How do you know the assistants dont call decisions on a regular basis. The referee doesnt indicate who calls the decision but the officials are all micced up and Ar's regularly call issues around offside/scrum
It's not so much who is making the calls, as the calls that aren't made. The game would be better with things like the offside line being policed properly, cleaner rucks, proper scrums. Any effort to accomplish that should be encouraged imo.
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27-09-2015, 17:45   #84
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It's not so much who is making the calls, as the calls that aren't made. The game would be better with things like the offside line being policed properly, cleaner rucks, proper scrums. Any effort to accomplish that should be encouraged imo.
What exactly is a proper scrum? Cleaner rucks?
You are looking for the impossible. There is 10+ offences that are in the laws book in the section covering the ruck. There is much more offences that can also be penalized at the breakdown.
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27-09-2015, 17:48   #85
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Originally Posted by AbusesToilets View Post
It's not so much who is making the calls, as the calls that aren't made. The game would be better with things like the offside line being policed properly, cleaner rucks, proper scrums. Any effort to accomplish that should be encouraged imo.
If every infringement is called there wouldn't be a game. Good refs know which infringements are significant and which aren't.

I can guarantee that at the bottom of every ruck and maul there are numerous laws broken
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27-09-2015, 17:52   #86
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What exactly is a proper scrum? Cleaner rucks?
You are looking for the impossible. There is 10+ offences that are in the laws book in the section covering the ruck. There is much more offences that can also be penalized at the breakdown.
By proper scrum, I would consider feeding, binding, driving at proper angels, food up before the feed. Cleaner rucks to include no hands on the deck, entering through the gate, not clearing out players beyond the ruck etc. All things that don't get called in every game on a regular basis.

Why is it considered impossible, that is a crazy statement. If they are not capable of being enforced, they shouldn't be rules. American football has a rulebook that puts rugby to shame, yet they manage to enforce it effectively, with every effort made towards accuracy. Having extra refs is a large part of that. If one ref, with two assistants, can't enforce the laws, then that would suggest something needs to be done to change that.
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27-09-2015, 17:53   #87
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If every infringement is called there wouldn't be a game. Good refs know which infringements are significant and which aren't.

I can guarantee that at the bottom of every ruck and maul there are numerous laws broken
We say that, but surely if refs were going to call infringements properly, then teams would stop cheating so much and you would have a much cleaner and better flowing game.
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27-09-2015, 17:58   #88
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By proper scrum, I would consider feeding, binding, driving at proper angels, food up before the feed. Cleaner rucks to include no hands on the deck, entering through the gate, not clearing out players beyond the ruck etc. All things that don't get called in every game on a regular basis.

Why is it considered impossible, that is a crazy statement. If they are not capable of being enforced, they shouldn't be rules. American football has a rulebook that puts rugby to shame, yet they manage to enforce it effectively, with every effort made towards accuracy. Having extra refs is a large part of that. If one ref, with two assistants, can't enforce the laws, then that would suggest something needs to be done to change that.
You have never refereed a game. If you were to penalize much more the game and sport would suffer. The reason things like that are not called in every games as it is all about materiality to the game/timing etc and there is no rules in the sport. There is Laws. They dont have to be strictly enforced. The Laws are there to be interpreted by the match officials. Each referee will interpret the laws differently. We dont need extra referees as they will have different interpretations and by having extra officials we would be making the sport much more difficult for people to watch especially beginners to the sport
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27-09-2015, 18:04   #89
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You have never refereed a game. If you were to penalize much more the game and sport would suffer. The reason things like that are not called in every games as it is all about materiality to the game/timing etc and there is no rules in the sport. There is Laws. They dont have to be strictly enforced. The Laws are there to be interpreted by the match officials. Each referee will interpret the laws differently. We dont need extra referees as they will have different interpretations and by having extra officials we would be making the sport much more difficult for people to watch especially beginners to the sport
That's where I would disagree with you. I think right now the situation would be very confusing for a beginner watching for the first time. Say you tell him a scrum half has to feed the ball straight at each scrum, yet he sees that not called all game. He would right ask why that is, especially if a ref decides to arbitrarily call it once. Likewise with something like hands on the deck.

A ref should have discretion on whether he considers if an act has violated a law,not whether he should call offenses that he sees.
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27-09-2015, 18:08   #90
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That's where I would disagree with you. I think right now the situation would be very confusing for a beginner watching for the first time. Say you tell him a scrum half has to feed the ball straight at each scrum, yet he sees that not called all game. He would right ask why that is, especially if a ref decides to arbitrarily call it once. Likewise with something like hands on the deck.

A ref should have discretion on whether he considers if an act has violated a law,not whether he should call offenses that he sees.
A crooked feed is one deliberately into the second row. If it goes in the channel and is hooked properly no problem. People have a bee in their bonnet if a ball is fed in a few degrees off plumb
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