Will the tech giants close buildings in the docks

RandomViewer · 03-08-2020 9:53pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

this, they'll have to drop that for the schools, which is why the pubs won't be back this side of halloween.

Wouldnt surprise me if they shut them all tomorrow evening, cabinet meeting and briefing, cant see them coming off holiday without some sort of new restrictions

joseywhales · 04-08-2020 10:26am

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Ireland has some advantages that these alternatives dont have but not many. The cities I mentioned are objectively more attractive in terms of architecture, more nature, and better serviced with public transport. Some are also less crowded than Dublin too. Plus rental prices can be half that of Dublin. Yeap many of these companies are in these cities and its not a either choice. I am just making the point that Dublin doesnt have a huge competitive advantage.

I do not think India is an alternative, in terms of the standard of living, unless you like air pollution and extremely high population density, less security and not a liberating environment for women to work(given that's 50% of people!)

The level of English fluency is not stunning, the ordinary Indian can only put a few words together with poor grammar. The university educated have decent English but certainly not stunning and not in comparison to an Irish grad.

I like India and Indian people but I would not like to live there long term or raise a family there.

Might have an argument for Copenhagen,Berlin and Amsterdam.

Cordell · 04-08-2020 10:50am

the ordinary Indian can only put a few words together with poor grammar

The ordinary Indian that matters for these tech companies will usually speak better English than their peers in non English speaking European countries, except maybe for Germany.

joseywhales · 04-08-2020 10:59am

Cordell wrote: »

The ordinary Indian that matters for these tech companies will usually speak better English than their peers in non English speaking European countries, except maybe for Germany.

So not the ordinary Indian then. India is fine as a hub but the argument seemed to be about the hub being attractive for international workforce to move to, India is not very attractive long term for europeans or americans to emigrate to.

Dempo1 · 04-08-2020 11:00am

Interesting question, with more and more tech companies allowing staff to work from home, some saying forever, others at least till 2021, these trophy offices and the absorbant cost of running them is likely to be reviewed, I worked at a large plant in lexlip years ago and whilst slightly different scenario, I could see over the years the perks, food offerings etc diminishing. It's not just office space being maintained but some eye watering staff facilities too. I guess its down to whether it's cost benificial to maintain leases, buy them out etc or if owned would a glut of these offices coming onto market deflate prices. Either way I can not see companies sustaining these sites if staff can work from home

beauf · 04-08-2020 11:05am

joseywhales wrote: »

So not the ordinary Indian then. India is fine as a hub but the argument seemed to be about the hub being attractive for international workforce to move to, India is not very attractive long term for europeans or americans to emigrate to.

I think the point was more would Indians working in Ireland prefer to work from India if they could.

If they were Irish you say some would, and some wouldn't. Don't think it's any different for any one else. For many people home is not where they are from but where they choose to make home.

Cordell · 04-08-2020 11:06am

joseywhales wrote: »

So not the ordinary Indian then. India is fine as a hub but the argument seemed to be about the hub being attractive for international workforce to move to, India is not very attractive long term for europeans or americans to emigrate to.

No, it's not, it's anything but attractive, but not because of their lack of English. It's pretty much a 3rd world country outside of those secure gated estates where only those fortunate enough get to live in.

RugbyLad11 · 04-08-2020 11:46am

Man with broke phone wrote: »

SO annoying when computer people keep talking about talented staff etc. Alot of these places are pretty much call centres. I know of one that is mainly south americans working south american time and answeing a list of questions off a sheet of paper because my old company have a mainrenance contract on the building. Talented staff. Only talented fella in the building was the one fixing the air con.

lol these tech companies start IT grads on a minimum of 50k per year...do you think they would be paying them this much if they were not skilled?

RugbyLad11 · 04-08-2020 11:56am

arctictree wrote: »

Aren't most of Google ireland employees foreign? I'd say a lot of them have headed home and are enjoying Irish Tech salaries on a fraction of the rent....

I could be wrong but while most most companies are working from home most managers have asked their employees to stay in Ireland when WFH.

krissovo · 04-08-2020 12:24pm

Most of these Tech companies are planning on reducing campus seat count to 25% for the next year at least to observe social distancing. Most will also be implementing policies for wearing of masks when away from your desk in all areas including meeting rooms which are also under the same guidelines of reducing the capacity to 25%.

For example a 1000 seat campus will be a 250 seat campus. Meeting rooms are now nearly obsolete so most are planning flexible open areas for stand up huddles rather than old style meeting rooms. One is planning to use large bean bags for single occupancy in these new meeting areas and flexible screen walling to create an appropriate sized space.

Most have also sent out surveys about willingness to work from the office in the future. These are rough numbers put together by various crisis management teams running the campuses who are talking with each other. In Ireland that figure is quite high at 38%, continental Europe is 22% and the US is 18%. The high figure for Ireland was put down to immigrant employees who do not have much of social network outside the office. Where European offices are largely sales sites with low immigrant workers and in the US the campuses are located in high cost areas and employees would rather work from their home state.

greenfield21 · 04-08-2020 12:34pm

Ah here this thread is a load of nonsense, the likes of Facebook, apple,Google could buy up the whole of the docklands SDZ and it wouldnt cost them a thought. We all know the reason these companies are here and that far outweighs the costs of a few buildings, employees. The downturn will come eventually but that's likely many years away when profits start falling. Then will see reductions in buildings downsizing etc. Currently Big tech is riding the crest of a wave.

cintec · 04-08-2020 12:35pm

krissovo wrote: »

Most of these Tech companies are planning on reducing campus seat count to 25% for the next year at least to observe social distancing. Most will also be implementing policies for wearing of masks when away from your desk in all areas including meeting rooms which are also under the same guidelines of reducing the capacity to 25%.

For example a 1000 seat campus will be a 250 seat campus. Meeting rooms are now nearly obsolete so most are planning flexible open areas for stand up huddles rather than old style meeting rooms. One is planning to use large bean bags for single occupancy in these new meeting areas and flexible screen walling to create an appropriate sized space.

Most have also sent out surveys about willingness to work from the office in the future. These are rough numbers put together by various crisis management teams running the campuses who are talking with each other. In Ireland that figure is quite high at 38%, continental Europe is 22% and the US is 18%. The high figure for Ireland was put down to immigrant employees who do not have much of social network outside the office. Where European offices are largely sales sites with low immigrant workers and in the US the campuses are located in high cost areas and employees would rather work from their home state.

Our company polled the staff and less than 10% wanted to return under the current conditions.

Masks are also compulsory even at your desk.

Fritzbox · 04-08-2020 12:39pm

Cordell wrote: »

The ordinary Indian that matters for these tech companies will usually speak better English than their peers in non English speaking European countries, except maybe for Germany.

The level of English among professional people in many European countries can be quite high - not so high in other European countries.
What makes you think the level of spoken English in Germany is the best in Europe? Certainly there is a higher level English speaking ability to be found in neighbouring Netherlands and Denmark.

Ash.J.Williams · 04-08-2020 12:41pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The United states is preparing some serious financial incentives to try and lure them home while at the same time Europe is looking for every excuse to try and tax them.

One day those buildings might close up permanently

it's gonna take a lot more than money to get them home at this stage

RandomViewer · 04-08-2020 1:59pm

greenfield21 wrote: »

Ah here this thread is a load of nonsense, the likes of Facebook, apple,Google could buy up the whole of the docklands SDZ and it wouldnt cost them a thought. We all know the reason these companies are here and that far outweighs the costs of a few buildings, employees. The downturn will come eventually but that's likely many years away when profits start falling. Then will see reductions in buildings downsizing etc. Currently Big tech is riding the crest of a wave.

Trump is almost guaranteed a second term (!),if he insists that these companies need to be resident in the US to operate there it will be game over for the docklands

ronivek · 04-08-2020 2:07pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Trump is almost guaranteed a second term (!),if he insists that these companies need to be resident in the US to operate there it will be game over for the docklands

I somehow doubt the massive multinationals are going to be basing decisions based on the surety of Trump's word; especially considering the election on the horizon.

Also I'm not even sure what 'need to be resident in the US' is supposed to mean in your post either. Are you trying to suggest he will make it so that no company can operate in the USA if it has any operations outside of the USA?

RandomViewer · 04-08-2020 2:14pm

ronivek wrote: »

I somehow doubt the massive multinationals are going to be basing decisions based on the surety of Trump's word; especially considering the election on the horizon.

Also I'm not even sure what 'need to be resident in the US' is supposed to mean in your post either. Are you trying to suggest he will make it so that no company can operate in the USA if it has any operations outside of the USA?

The man isn't rational, He sees American companies giving jobs in countries that could be done in America, whether by incentive or threats he will attempt to repatriate those jobs,
Biden is a terrible candidate, cant see anything stopping another Trump victory ,

hello2020 · 04-08-2020 2:27pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Trump is almost guaranteed a second term (!),if he insists that these companies need to be resident in the US to operate there it will be game over for the docklands

i think u r underestimating the lobbying power these big tech companies command in congress n senate

ED E · 04-08-2020 3:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless you're already living within the M50, i'd imagine the commute from your home to westmeath VS to dublin city centre are probably similar. At peak times it can take me 90+ minutes from Drogheda to the City Centre.

If i was going the opposite direction, in 90 minutes I'd cover a lot more ground.

If you build a big ass factory in Leitrim or Roscommon, and stick a Microsoft Logo on it, houses will start getting built, and the people working there will start spending in the town. If the jobs you are offering are in any way half decent, staff aren't going to care where the job is located, as if they're already commuting to Dublin City Centre then they're unlikely to be commuting for a much longer time, anyway.

If I worked in a decent Google job and was told they were opening a new office in the middle of nowhere, i'd have no issue in moving my job. The only people who'd fight it are those already living in dublin city.

Google don't want you. They want the Ruby expert from Warsaw, payments guru from the US. They won't work in Meath.

One of Amazon's tenants is frugality, they're taking over Burlington Rd which is €€€€€€€€ territory. Google have 5 or is it 6 buildings now. These aren't stupid firms. If you socialize with a few young tech workers you'll understand.

Also further than Meath is instantly ruled out due to airport proximity. HP are the only ones to breach that and they're a dumpster fire.

Cordell · 04-08-2020 4:44pm

Fritzbox wrote: »

The level of English among professional people in many European countries can be quite high - not so high in other European countries.
What makes you think the level of spoken English in Germany is the best in Europe? Certainly there is a higher level English speaking ability to be found in neighbouring Netherlands and Denmark.

I'm not trying to argue that, my point was that the indian tech workers have a level of English that is usually the same or better than other non native English speakers. In any case, we're past that and the reasons all tech companies aren't willing to relocate their Irish offices there.

Shefwedfan · 04-08-2020 5:00pm

touts wrote: »

Nope. But the analysts want to see companies making cost savings wherever possible. It is usually things like inventory. The two weeks before the end of qtr accounts can often see companies delaying deliveries and cutting production all to get their inventory levels down. Thats usually a sign that sales for the qtr were ****.

Well this qtr we are likely to see pretty poor results. So companies are going to cut everything they can to be able to tell the analysts that they are proactive. A few million on an empty building in Dublin Docklands is what accountants call "low hanging fruit" when they are presenting options to the Board in the US.

I disagree.

If the company has poor performance a mill here and a mill there wont do anything for a analyst. Unless the company is actually bankrupt and at that stage it would just be selling off the assest.

These are multi billion companies, every qtr is billions and not millions. If the poo is hitting the fan are you telling me that they are going to board/shareholder saying they save 5-10 million across the World on rent?

The entire C level would be fired on the spot.

Dravokivich · 04-08-2020 5:14pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I disagree.

If the company has poor performance a mill here and a mill there wont do anything for a analyst. Unless the company is actually bankrupt and at that stage it would just be selling off the assest.

These are multi billion companies, every qtr is billions and not millions. If the poo is hitting the fan are you telling me that they are going to board/shareholder saying they save 5-10 million across the World on rent?

The entire C level would be fired on the spot.

Multi Nationals can be very harsh on the cost savings they look for. You'd be surprised how petty it can be, I've seen some even make departments within their organisation compete against each other. To the detriment of the customers, who ceased getting services they paid for.

Shefwedfan · 04-08-2020 6:05pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Multi Nationals can be very harsh on the cost savings they look for. You'd be surprised how petty it can be, I've seen some even make departments within their organisation compete against each other. To the detriment of the customers, who ceased getting services they paid for.

I am well aware what MNC do, you will find the Ireland offices compete internally also to get new workloads etc moved over.

The favorite for most of these companies when they hit a bad qtr is sack the staff. Pump up targets so they are unrealitic so people cannot hit targets. Put caps on commission so if people do hit and overachieve they only have to pay them X%.

Moving jobs from one country to another, telling the person the job is now in XYZ, you either quit or follow your job which in reality most people will quit as they pick the sector that has older staff with families

All of the above is done, more regular than people would think.....that is large scale cost saving. An office is peanuts

Dravokivich · 04-08-2020 7:31pm

When an organisation is set to chase costs savings, after the large slices have been cut off, they'll purse dusting off the crumbs. The savings will be trivial, but they'll chase it down.

tropple · 04-08-2020 9:28pm

Facebook Leases Large Space At Manhattan’s Farley Building, Signaling Confidence In The City And Office Buildings

M256 · 04-08-2020 10:21pm

tropple wrote: »

Facebook Leases Large Space At Manhattan’s Farley Building, Signaling Confidence In The City And Office Buildings

So, is this a trend or an outlier?

M256 · 04-08-2020 10:25pm

ED E wrote: »

Google don't want you. They want the Ruby expert from Warsaw, payments guru from the US. They won't work in Meath.

How about Dell in Limerick, Apple in Cork, and Land Rover in the middle of nowhere? Who works there?

tropple · 05-08-2020 7:54am

M256 wrote: »

So, is this a trend or an outlier?

It's not a trend, but it immediately debunks what a lot of the posters in this thread are claiming

Shefwedfan · 05-08-2020 8:50am

M256 wrote: »

How about Dell in Limerick, Apple in Cork, and Land Rover in the middle of nowhere? Who works there?

What about them?

Eric Cartman · 05-08-2020 9:52am

M256 wrote: »

How about Dell in Limerick, Apple in Cork, and Land Rover in the middle of nowhere? Who works there?

manufacturing, its a different game.

Software developers are a different bunch, they want to live in cities close to everything, walk or cycle to everything and be able to change jobs without moving house. It's why all the tech companies are huddled together.

Cordell · 05-08-2020 10:21am

AFAIK there's zero manufacturing in Dell and JLR sites today.
There's quite a few non-manufacturing tech jobs spread between Limerick/Shannon, Galway and Cork and probably now there is some opportunity to encourage more companies to move in, relieve some of the pressure on Dublin housing, bring some business to other cities and all that.

awec · 05-08-2020 10:21am

None of Apple, Dell or Land Rover are tech companies in Ireland in the same vein as the others mentioned in this thread.

Apple probably the closest, and I'd bet if Apple were establishing themselves in Ireland today they'd be in Dublin, not Cork.

An Ri rua · 05-08-2020 10:23am

biggebruv wrote: »

They have like the whole area if reports today about not coming back properly till next year just why do they need all them buildings doesn’t google alone have like 6 or something

The irony of a semi-literate post about a company called Alphabet.....

awec · 05-08-2020 10:23am

Cordell wrote: »

AFAIK there's zero manufacturing in Dell and JLR sites today.
There's quite a few non-manufacturing tech jobs spread between Limerick/Shannon, Galway and Cork and probably now there is some opportunity to encourage more companies to move in, relieve some of the pressure on Dublin housing, bring some business to other cities and all that.

They have tried this already. IDA Ireland tried to give grants to get MNCs to set up outside of Dublin but it didn't work.

krissovo · 05-08-2020 10:24am

Cordell wrote: »

AFAIK there's zero manufacturing in Dell and JLR sites today.
There's quite a few non-manufacturing tech jobs spread between Limerick/Shannon, Galway and Cork and probably now there is some opportunity to encourage more companies to move in, relieve some of the pressure on Dublin housing, bring some business to other cities and all that.

I think Dell are still manufacturing in Cork, they were late last year anyway but I think the appliance they were manufacturing will be end of life soon.

Cordell · 05-08-2020 10:31am

awec wrote: »

They have tried this already. IDA Ireland tried to give grants to get MNCs to set up outside of Dublin but it didn't work.

I now, but now it's time to try again

AlmightyCushion · 05-08-2020 11:01am

Cordell wrote: »

I now, but now it's time to try again

They are. It's not like they tried and gave up. They will offer grants and spaces in office blocks and warehouses to companies to set up in the BMW region (border, midlands, west). It's not a once off thing, it's something they do continuously. They have a big business park in Sligo specifically for this. It works in attracting some companies to those areas but it's never going to attract a Google or Microsoft with thousands of employees to Sligo or other similarly sized towns and that should not be the goal.

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligochampion/news/ida-building-for-the-future-here-in-sligo-37644620.html

2018 was an excellent year for Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in Sligo. Three new IDA client companies established operations here, animal health and nutrition manufacturers Phibro, global software company LiveTiles and retail solutions company E3 Retail.

Expansions were announced by established companies Overstock, an e-commerce and technology company and Abbvie, the global R&D based biopharma company. Over 400 jobs were created.

Sligo is now home to 22 IDA client companies, employing 2,184 people.

For areas like this, this is exactly the type of companies they should be attracting. It's better to have 20 companies employing 2,000 people than it is to have 1 or 2 companies employing the same number.

And for the record, I know LiveTiles had serious issues getting developers. I was inundated with emails and linkedin messages from recruiters (loads of different recruitment companies and some were different people for the same company) asking me if I was interested. I got a couple of phone calls about it too from recruitment agencies that had my mobile number. A few of them told me they were struggling to get developers.

ronivek · 05-08-2020 11:42am

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

And for the record, I know LiveTiles had serious issues getting developers. I was inundated with emails and linkedin messages from recruiters (loads of different recruitment companies and some were different people for the same company) asking me if I was interested. I got a couple of phone calls about it too from recruitment agencies that had my mobile number. A few of them told me they were struggling to get developers.

It's difficult enough for the big Dublin companies to hire; let alone those outside of Dublin. Granted the standard of candidate some of the technology companies look for is quite high; but positions in any teams I've been a part of routinely take anywhere from 6 months to well over a year to fill unless concessions are made.

Another aspect is the fact many technology employees hop from position to position and company to company every few years; this is a lot easier if you're based in an area with many other companies (e.g. Dublin). Indeed it is another one of the reasons Dublin is so popular; virtually every significant technology company and sector is represented here in some form or other.

AlmightyCushion · 05-08-2020 1:17pm

ronivek wrote: »

It's difficult enough for the big Dublin companies to hire; let alone those outside of Dublin. Granted the standard of candidate some of the technology companies look for is quite high; but positions in any teams I've been a part of routinely take anywhere from 6 months to well over a year to fill unless concessions are made.

Another aspect is the fact many technology employees hop from position to position and company to company every few years; this is a lot easier if you're based in an area with many other companies (e.g. Dublin). Indeed it is another one of the reasons Dublin is so popular; virtually every significant technology company and sector is represented here in some form or other.

Exactly. It's a big factor in why I'm not interested in dev roles in Sligo despite being from there. The job might be great but if they ever go out of business or I want to move for whatever reason, your options are extremely limited. In Dublin, you don't have that problem.

Saying that, the amount of companies with dev roles in Sligo has increased over the past few years so hopefully over time it continues this and ends up with a lot of companies with dev roles. That will make it more enticing for people as they will not be, more or less, stuck/tied to the one employer if they move there and put down roots.

Diarmuid · 06-08-2020 3:45pm

M256 wrote: »

How about Dell in Limerick, Apple in Cork, and Land Rover in the middle of nowhere? Who works there?

JLR are only in Shannon because they hired a whole design team from Intel who were closing down the team. JLR didn't move there and look for people. The people went to them and made the proposal. I've a friend who's been there from the start.

Will the tech giants close buildings in the docks

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