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Will the tech giants close buildings in the docks

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Fred Cryton wrote: »
    Working from home is a fad guys. You're just in a little bubble now and don't see it. Employers will want you back chained to your office as before soon enough. I know this is hard to believe, but your employer doesn't trust you to give 100% attention to your job at home. And they're right not to let's be honest, aren't you reading Boards.ie right now.

    Demand for office space may actually increase due to social distancing requirements and the end of "hot desking". Or at the very least it'll stay the same as maybe 20% of people manage to get away with working from home. But those people will regret it - out of sight and out of mind and all that.

    Weird, I just got hired for a role where I'm permanently contracted to work from home. Software is just very suited to it. And it's been moving this way in software for years. Lockdown just sped it up.


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    #33
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,507 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Unless you're already living within the M50, i'd imagine the commute from your home to westmeath VS to dublin city centre are probably similar. At peak times it can take me 90+ minutes from Drogheda to the City Centre.


    If i was going the opposite direction, in 90 minutes I'd cover a lot more ground.


    If you build a big ass factory in Leitrim or Roscommon, and stick a Microsoft Logo on it, houses will start getting built, and the people working there will start spending in the town. If the jobs you are offering are in any way half decent, staff aren't going to care where the job is located, as if they're already commuting to Dublin City Centre then they're unlikely to be commuting for a much longer time, anyway.


    If I worked in a decent Google job and was told they were opening a new office in the middle of nowhere, i'd have no issue in moving my job. The only people who'd fight it are those already living in dublin city.

    You really haven't a notion.

    Google, Microsoft, Facebook etc are not competing for staff from Dublin vs Leitrim ffs. It's Dublin vs London vs Paris vs Stockholm etc etc.

    If they stuck a big building in Leitrim and stuck a Google/Microsoft/Facebook logo on it they wouldn't get the staff they need, pure and simple. The talent would just not be available.


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    #34
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    awec wrote: »
    You really haven't a notion.

    Google, Microsoft, Facebook etc are not competing for staff from Dublin vs Leitrim ffs. It's Dublin vs London vs Paris vs Stockholm etc etc.

    If they stuck a big building in Leitrim and stuck a Google/Microsoft/Facebook logo on it they wouldn't get the staff they need, pure and simple. The talent would just not be available.

    Exactly this, ericsson struggle to get staff in athlone and Have to pay relocation grants and increased salaries because young people have no interest in living outside cities anymore


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    #35
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,507 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Fred Cryton wrote: »
    Working from home is a fad guys. You're just in a little bubble now and don't see it. Employers will want you back chained to your office as before soon enough. I know this is hard to believe, but your employer doesn't trust you to give 100% attention to your job at home. And they're right not to let's be honest, aren't you reading Boards.ie right now.

    Demand for office space may actually increase due to social distancing requirements and the end of "hot desking". Or at the very least it'll stay the same as maybe 20% of people manage to get away with working from home. But those people will regret it - out of sight and out of mind and all that.

    I don't think you're really clued in to modern working practices Fred. This is not the first time you've shown ignorance to how the world works these days.

    The days of people having to be sitting at a desk, with someone constantly watching over their shoulder and tracking when they enter and leave the building died long before covid even became a thing.


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    #36
    hello2020
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭hello2020


    awec wrote: »
    You really haven't a notion.

    Google, Microsoft, Facebook etc are not competing for staff from Dublin vs Leitrim ffs. It's Dublin vs London vs Paris vs Stockholm etc etc.

    If they stuck a big building in Leitrim and stuck a Google/Microsoft/Facebook logo on it they wouldn't get the staff they need, pure and simple. The talent would just not be available.

    This is so true. Fancy campuses at cool locations is one big factor for attracting young talents from world over..


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    #37
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    They are taking us for a ride a large proportion of their staff are not idigenous Irish and not paying their fair share of tax. Why not offer tax incentives to Irish start ups in order to create Irish jobs for Irish people instead of relying on foreign companies who employ mostly non nationals. Considering they are not in any rush back now is the perfect time to start planning for life without them.


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    #38
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    GT89 wrote: »
    They are taking us for a ride a large proportion of their staff are not idigenous Irish and not paying their fair share of tax. Why not offer tax incentives to Irish start ups in order to create Irish jobs for Irish people instead of relying on foreign companies who employ mostly non nationals. Considering they are not in any rush back now is the perfect time to start planning for life without them.

    We already do. It's called enterprise Ireland, they offer loads of funding and grants for Irish companies.


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    #39
    greenfield21
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    By investing in offshore tangible assets US companies are getting a reduced gilti rate.


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    #40
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,854 ✭✭✭Cordell


    GT89 wrote: »
    They are taking us for a ride a large proportion of their staff are not idigenous Irish and not paying their fair share of tax. Why not offer tax incentives to Irish start ups in order to create Irish jobs for Irish people instead of relying on foreign companies who employ mostly non nationals. Considering they are not in any rush back now is the perfect time to start planning for life without them.

    Both staff and employers are paying their fair* share of taxes, furthermore they are spending a lot of that money in Ireland, helping the economy in general. So, what is the problem?

    *fair means legal, otherwise how is it fair to tax a foreign individual the same as a native, giving that the foreign was educated on other country's expense and Ireland now reaps the benefits for free?

    The only problem they create is the housing shortage which leads to high prices, apart from that its only benefits to have them here.


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    #41
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    hello2020 wrote: »
    This is so true. Fancy campuses at cool locations is one big factor for attracting young talents from world over..

    For "some" of our non Irish staff . Living in the country side is what attracted them. When I asked why. Some replied "space" or quality of life. Some are coming from densely populated countries. A long distance in Ireland is a short distance to them.


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    #42
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    I think all the big companies are essentially getting prepared for the working from home generation. Data Centres etc will still be needed but massive office blocks with space for a canteet and ping pong table could be behind us.

    And when I say working from home, I mean working from their homeland. The programmers can be based in India, China, Eastern Europe and elsewhere, and they can just operate the shell company out if Ireland. Let's be honest, piss all of the employees for the large tech companies are actually Irish.

    They'll be starting to question if there is even a need to be based in Ireland at all. If your workforce is remote, why do would they need base themselves in a country that would be deemed by high earners as a livable city? Ireland's selling point is an English speaking country and a good place to live if you are earning a lot of money, plus the tax laws. Basically all we will have left are the tax laws and there's nothing stopping somewhere like Lithuania or Slovakia competing with it, if everyone is based remotely.

    The gig is up imo


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    #43
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    This is a friend of a friend story so could be bullshít or exaggerated but here it goes. Said friend of a friend has said that the company they work for will be allowing working from home from now on for all staff and they are evening looking to sell the building they are in and move to a smaller one.

    Obviously, I can't see every company doing that but I imagine a few are certainly looking at the cost savings.

    A lot of companies are realising that WFH is viable and it can save them a fortune. Office space is going to become a thing of the past in many sectors.


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    #44
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,507 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    I think all the big companies are essentially getting prepared for the working from home generation. Data Centres etc will still be needed but massive office blocks with space for a canteet and ping pong table could be behind us.

    And when I say working from home, I mean working from their homeland. The programmers can be based in India, China, Eastern Europe and elsewhere, and they can just operate the shell company out if Ireland. Let's be honest, piss all of the employees for the large tech companies are actually Irish.

    They'll be starting to question if there is even a need to be based in Ireland at all. If your workforce is remote, why do would they need base themselves in a country that would be deemed by high earners as a livable city? Ireland's selling point is an English speaking country and a good place to live if you are earning a lot of money, plus the tax laws. Basically all we will have left are the tax laws and there's nothing stopping somewhere like Lithuania or Slovakia competing with it, if everyone is based remotely.

    The gig is up imo

    This post is fairly ignorant of reality.

    The bit in bold, there was nothing stopping them doing this last year, or two years ago, or 10 years ago. Some folk have been beating this drum for years, "you can't rely on the tech companies for employment cause they'll just leave at any moment" etc etc. They've been here over 30 years in some cases, at some stage people will give up on this one.

    Ireland provides numerous benefits. One is the tax and another is the English speaking. But there is also the fact it's an attractive place to live so not hard to get people to move here, it's got good local talent and it has a great time zone relative to the US.

    (On a side note, these MNCs employ loads of Irish people).


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    #45
    statesaver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭statesaver


    awec wrote: »
    This post is fairly ignorant of reality.

    The bit in bold, there was nothing stopping them doing this last year, or two years ago, or 10 years ago. Some folk have been beating this drum for years, "you can't rely on the tech companies for employment cause they'll just leave at any moment" etc etc. They've been here over 30 years in some cases, at some stage people will give up on this one.

    Ireland provides numerous benefits. One is the tax and another is the English speaking. But there is also the fact it's an attractive place to live so not hard to get people to move here, it's got good local talent and it has a great time zone relative to the US.

    Covid has begun to change all that. On the radio this morning they were on about Google not reopening fully until July 2021. Why have office space when employees are working from home, where ever home is.


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    #46
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Ah, to be fair there is an element of showing off involved. Otherwise they'd have just built these places in Westmeath somewhere on the cheapest plot of land they could find, and it'd be a basic warehouse/office block.



    Building mega-buildings and putting them in the most expensive areas is a bit of a gloaty move. At the same time, so is driving anything other than the most basic of basic cars. If you have the money, you may aswell spend it and keep jobs going.

    Young Facebook and google staff ain’t coming here to work in Westmeath...


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    #47
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,854 ✭✭✭Cordell


    statesaver wrote: »
    Covid has begun to change all that. On the radio this morning they were on about Google not reopening fully until July 2021. Why have office space when employees are working from home, where ever home is.

    Before the pandemic: why have employees in Ireland at all, when you could just have a shell here? Even better, why even have the shell here when you can have it somewhere in Panama?


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    #48
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    awec wrote: »

    (On a side note, these MNCs employ loads of Irish people).

    Some of them do, the ones who've been here a long time. I reckon if we ever saw statistics on Facebook and Amazon it might be eye opening


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    #49
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Cordell wrote: »
    Before the pandemic: why have employees in Ireland at all, when you could just have a shell here? Even better, why even have the shell here when you can have it somewhere in Panama?

    Not all outsourcing and remote working is successful.


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    #50
    dhaughton99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭dhaughton99


    I wonder how WeWork premises are fairing these days


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    #51
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭techdiver


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Exactly this, ericsson struggle to get staff in athlone and Have to pay relocation grants and increased salaries because young people have no interest in living outside cities anymore

    The problem is they don't offer high enough salaries. I live in the midlands and taking all into account the salaries on offer just don't complete enough for me to work there as opposed to Dublin.

    We are talking 5 figure salary differences.

    Add to this that many software companies permit some working from home (even prior to the pandemic) if Ericsson wants to attract staff they need to up their game. It's supply and demand the same as any other business. If the jobs market collapses employers are quick enough to cut salaries also.


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    #52
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,507 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    statesaver wrote: »
    Covid has begun to change all that. On the radio this morning they were on about Google not reopening fully until July 2021. Why have office space when employees are working from home, where ever home is.

    That's a different question. Working remotely within Ireland vs making Ireland essentially an empty hub with the employees all elsewhere.


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    #53
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,610 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    awec wrote: »

    Ireland provides numerous benefits. One is the tax and another is the English speaking. But there is also the fact it's an attractive place to live so not hard to get people to move here, it's got good local talent and it has a great time zone relative to the US.
    The other benefit of Ireland compared to other EU countries that is often missed is the two hour overlap in the working day with west coast US cities - 4-6pm in Dublin is 8-10am in Seattle and San Fran, so there's a decent opportunity to collaborate and hand over projects in either direction. If you push any further east to Brussels or Paris, you make it much harder for people to collaborate and still have any kind of decent work-life balance.


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    #54
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,046 ✭✭✭✭neris


    Cant see Google closing down the sites they own. They are renting a few places close by their HQ buidings that Id say they,ll be out of once the Bolands mill site opens and the builders on that are plowing away. With Google staff not in their offices the builders are probably keeping the local shops and take aways in business.


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    #55
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Then there was this...

    https://www.siliconrepublic.com/jobs/amazon-jobs-cork-dublin


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    #56
    coolshannagh28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    I think all the big companies are essentially getting prepared for the working from home generation. Data Centres etc will still be needed but massive office blocks with space for a canteet and ping pong table could be behind us.

    And when I say working from home, I mean working from their homeland. The programmers can be based in India, China, Eastern Europe and elsewhere, and they can just operate the shell company out if Ireland. Let's be honest, piss all of the employees for the large tech companies are actually Irish.

    They'll be starting to question if there is even a need to be based in Ireland at all. If your workforce is remote, why do would they need base themselves in a country that would be deemed by high earners as a livable city? Ireland's selling point is an English speaking country and a good place to live if you are earning a lot of money, plus the tax laws. Basically all we will have left are the tax laws and there's nothing stopping somewhere like Lithuania or Slovakia competing with it, if everyone is based remotely.

    The gig is up imo

    There is some evidence that working from your homeland is currently viable and city centre Dublin is quiet as a result , whether these people will come back is debatable but if the technology is there to assess performance then it may mark an unexpected change.


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    #57
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Cordell wrote: »
    Before the pandemic: why have employees in Ireland at all, when you could just have a shell here? Even better, why even have the shell here when you can have it somewhere in Panama?

    To avail of certain corporate tax breaks and allowances rules were changed so multinationals actually have had to bring more senior staff members to Ireland.


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    #58
    arctictree
    Registered Users Posts: 4,294 ✭✭✭arctictree


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Google are letting employees stay at home until July 2021, there's a few exceptions like Greece. Ireland won't be reopening any time soon.

    Aren't most of Google ireland employees foreign? I'd say a lot of them have headed home and are enjoying Irish Tech salaries on a fraction of the rent....


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    #59
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,507 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    arctictree wrote: »
    Aren't most of Google ireland employees foreign? I'd say a lot of them have headed home and are enjoying Irish Tech salaries on a fraction of the rent....

    There is a 180 day limit on doing this before there are tax and other implications. This came up all the time elsewhere on boards, it is not uncommon for MNCs to have very strict rules about working outside the state.

    e.g. https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/multinationals-face-tax-hit-after-exodus-of-overseas-staff-39358022.html


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    #60
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,854 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Indeed what they enjoy is their problem, but the state should have a problem with this, especially if the companies receive any sort of tax deals, as this was intended to boost Irish employment end economy.


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    #61
    arctictree
    Registered Users Posts: 4,294 ✭✭✭arctictree


    awec wrote: »
    There is a 180 day limit on doing this before there are tax and other implications. This came up all the time elsewhere on boards, it is not uncommon for MNCs to have very strict rules about working outside the state.

    e.g. https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/multinationals-face-tax-hit-after-exodus-of-overseas-staff-39358022.html

    You could be in Cork or Barcelona, does the employer really care?


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