Tenants not paying rent

JustAThought · 21-04-2020 2:00am

daedal wrote: »

E. Stop being a greedy bastard and reduce the rent to €1200. What kind of ****ed up country we live in where a tenant has to pay €850 a month on rent alone. That’s more than half their salary if they are on minimum wage.

you don’t know that they are -they could be senior managers in aviation logistics or cargo or pilots -Give the OP credit for doing reference checks before he rented to both of them.And your tone and sense of entitlement are fairly offensive - if they cannot pay their way they could also both move elsewhere - nobody owes them their home at a price they request -a little courtesy and manners go a long way. Perhaps you could buy a 350,000 house and give it to them because they ‘deserve it’ or you feel free and easy with handing over someone elses money to strangers? Maybe you’d like to go without and Perhaps transfer e400 or e500 of yours to them so they can meet their legal obligations?

I vote for the OP to get them to get SW to give an exceptional needs payment to meet the rent as promised /discussed by politicians a few weeks back and monitor the situation for 3 months snd do it all in writing.

daedal · 21-04-2020 2:15am

JustAThought wrote: »

you don’t know that they are -they could be senior managers in aviation logistics or cargo or pilots -Give the OP credit for doing reference checks before he rented to both of them.And your tone and sense of entitlement are fairly offensive - if they cannot pay their way they could also both move elsewhere - nobody owes them their home at a price they request -a little courtesy and manners go a long way. Perhaps you could buy a 350,000 house and give it to them because they ‘deserve it’ or you feel free and easy with handing over someone elses money to strangers? Maybe you’d like to go without and Perhaps transfer e400 or e500 of yours to them so they can meet their legal obligations?

I vote for the OP to get them to get SW to give an exceptional needs payment to meet the rent as promised /discussed by politicians a few weeks back and monitor the situation for 3 months snd do it all in writing.

I’d love to see what the tenants are getting for their €1700, my guess is that they are paying over the odds for a crock of ****. Wonder if OP would be willing to show us photos of the place.

21-04-2020 5:34am

daedal wrote: »

I’d love to see what the tenants are getting for their €1700, my guess is that they are paying over the odds for a crock of ****. Wonder if OP would be willing to show us photos of the place.

They can always move if it’s not up to scratch. Or just stop feeling like the world owes them something.

daedal · 21-04-2020 7:11am

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

They can always move if it’s not up to scratch. Or just stop feeling like the world owes them something.

If only it was that easy, housing shortages doesn’t allow people to pick and choose, it also drives the rent up to unreasonable levels.

21-04-2020 10:09am

daedal wrote: »

E. Stop being a greedy bastard and reduce the rent to €1200. What kind of ****ed up country we live in where a tenant has to pay €850 a month on rent alone. That’s more than half their salary if they are on minimum wage.

Deedal, the rental market, for the most part, follows the principles of economics, what is in short supply in a time of high demand costs more. For years during the last recession, rents were low due to high supply and low demand, tenants were not compelled to help struggling landlords trapped in negative equity by paying more rent than the market set.

Edit: I see from the lost recent post that you do understand this, so complaining about the cost while understanding and acknowledging why that cost exists, seems paradoxical.

ELM327 · 21-04-2020 10:11am

BluePlanet · 21-04-2020 10:16am

daedal wrote: »

I’d love to see what the tenants are getting for their €1700, my guess is that they are paying over the odds for a crock of ****. Wonder if OP would be willing to show us photos of the place.

I agree. It sounds like another greedy LL here talking his book and willing to turn the screws on tenants in order to squeeze every penny out of them.

Show me your bank statements indeed.

beauf · 21-04-2020 10:20am

daedal wrote: »

If only it was that easy, housing shortages doesn’t allow people to pick and choose, it also drives the rent up to unreasonable levels.

Well those problems are gone. So it is that easy.

Lots of supply now and reducing rents.

Graham · 21-04-2020 10:22am

Mod Note

any more personal digs at anyone will not go down well.

21-04-2020 10:28am

BluePlanet wrote: »

I agree. It sounds like another greedy LL here talking his book and willing to turn the screws on tenants in order to squeeze every penny out of them.

Show me your bank statements indeed.

The op is not turning the screws on the tenant, the rent is not increasing, from the op, he/she has no proof that the tenant has been effected, they could be working from home.

The op is abiding by the terms of the lease, how is this squeezing every last penny out of them?

21-04-2020 10:31am

beauf wrote: »

Well those problems are gone. So it is that easy.

Lots of supply now and reducing rents.

Interestingly, there is another thread where a tenant is trying to rent one of the “lots of supply” and is getting nowhere. Many of the properties seem only to be willing to rent for 5 months until students/Airbnb returns, those that are long let’s have many applicants so there is a ways to go.

beauf · 21-04-2020 10:49am

Dav010 wrote: »

Interestingly, there is another thread where a tenant is trying to rent one of the “lots of supply” and is getting nowhere. Many of the properties seem only to be willing to rent for 5 months until students/Airbnb returns, those that are long let’s have many applicants so there is a ways to go.

5 months should be ideal. People are free to move again and rents will even lower and supply much better by then.

Most people here don't remember rentals in the early 80-90s but long contacts are meaningless if rents are failing and lots of supply. Long contacts are really only needed where there is poor supply.

Ray Palmer · 21-04-2020 11:45am

BluePlanet wrote: »

I agree. It sounds like another greedy LL here talking his book and willing to turn the screws on tenants in order to squeeze every penny out of them.

Show me your bank statements indeed.

Did you miss what I explained? A tenant is at best paying off a loan rather than paying his rent. At worst they are getting more money and not paying their rent. Who is greedy there?

He actually has a room to himself but the two people sharing a room are paying all their rent and they are complaining that he shouldn't have his own room as he isn't paying more than them now

na1 · 21-04-2020 4:59pm

robinbird wrote: »

Indeed. Let's hope that FG can increase the €1,000,000,000 year in payments that they are giving them once they are properly back in power.
If they do not have the funds to significantly increase the subsidy rents might well fall.

The rents will fall if LLs have more rights. Like the right to evict, the right and the right to raise the rent to the current market value.
Also the property damage claims can be handled by the house insurance.

na1 · 21-04-2020 5:19pm

bbehan202 wrote: »

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Ask yourself a question: it it would be easy for you to find new tenants right now on 1400+ a month? then don't agree on the reduction. You won't loose anything.
If its hard to find tenants for even 1400, then I would try negotiate. And this has to be a written agreement that this is a temporary reduction.

21-04-2020 5:58pm

daedal wrote: »

E. Stop being a greedy bastard and reduce the rent to €1200. What kind of ****ed up country we live in where a tenant has to pay €850 a month on rent alone. That’s more than half their salary if they are on minimum wage.

Why would the country be ****ed up because of that rent level, Irish rent is actually quite reasonable when compared to many countries. I have a friend in the US paying $3500 a month for a two bed apartment, one of the cheapest he could find and just a normal apartment nice but nothing special.

Samuel T. Cogley · 21-04-2020 6:49pm

na1 wrote: »

Also the property damage claims can be handled by the house insurance.

Not if caused by the tenant.

Electric Sheep · 21-04-2020 8:18pm

Lexie Black Oaf wrote: »

Why would the country be ****ed up because of that rent level, Irish rent is actually quite reasonable when compared to many countries. I have a friend in the US paying $3500 a month for a two bed apartment, one of the cheapest he could find and just a normal apartment nice but nothing special.

Yes, but in the US that will include 24 hour heat, hot water, and air conditioning, and frequently parking and access to a swimming pool. Big difference.

Ray Palmer · 22-04-2020 9:54am

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Yes, but in the US that will include 24 hour heat, hot water, and air conditioning, and frequently parking and access to a swimming pool. Big difference.

What? That is the most unrealistic thing I have heard in a long term. Utilities are not included in rent as the norm in the USA. Normally only in old converted houses due to the hassle of dividing up utilities. In Ireland you cannot have a central heating system for an entire block each unit has to be separate

Graham · 22-04-2020 9:58am

Ray Palmer wrote: »

In Ireland you cannot have a central heating system for an entire block each unit has to be separate

Is that new or are you confusing the minimum standard that cover "effective heating and which the tenant can control"?

Ray Palmer · 22-04-2020 10:26am

Graham wrote: »

Is that new or are you confusing the minimum standard that cover "effective heating and which the tenant can control"?

Not new but it is why electric storage heaters are used in most apartments. Do you know of apartment blocks with central heating systems covered by management fees in Ireland? There may be an exemption for buildings older than 30 years but I think it was in place then too

beauf · 22-04-2020 10:34am

I only know one. But people have complained about them on boards in recent years.

meijin · 22-04-2020 10:41am

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Not new but it is why electric storage heaters are used in most apartments. Do you know of apartment blocks with central heating systems covered by management fees in Ireland? There may be an exemption for buildings older than 30 years but I think it was in place then too

that issue was solved many many years ago in many countries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating)

each apt. can have energy meter and you pay for energy used

having your own heating system in each house / apt seems very inefficient

Ulysses Gaze · 22-04-2020 10:42am

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Yes, but in the US that will include 24 hour heat, hot water, and air conditioning, and frequently parking and access to a swimming pool. Big difference.

Income tax is lower in most states too.

spaceHopper · 22-04-2020 10:44am

I would tell them you will take the 1400 euros for now but they still owe the remaining 300 euros. If they've lost their jobs they have to apply for HAP or Rent support allowance. The rational is that their own saving will not last and eventually they won't be able to afford the rent. The covid payment is temporary for only 12 weeks may of which have passed.

If they applied for rent supplement or HAP you would have to have filled in paper work so they haven't applied for it. Any application would be back dated from the time of application so they would get the money back eventually. You also have to be legit and paying tax.

Ray Palmer · 22-04-2020 1:02pm

meijin wrote: »

that issue was solved many many years ago in many countries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating)

each apt. can have energy meter and you pay for energy used

having your own heating system in each house / apt seems very inefficient

It doesn't matter if there is a solution you can't build that way here by law. Cities all around the world use shared utility systems and have done for a long time. They don't allow it here for many reasons but main ones was landlords wouldn't maintain them or control when it was in use.

It is surprisingly not inefficient because the user pays thus don't waste as much. It is inefficient in building costs and is one reason for higher building costs here

Claw Hammer · 22-04-2020 1:08pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It doesn't matter if there is a solution you can't build that way here by law. Cities all around the world use shared utility systems and have done for a long time. They don't allow it here for many reasons but main ones was landlords wouldn't maintain them or control when it was in use.

It is surprisingly not inefficient because the user pays thus don't waste as much. It is inefficient in building costs and is one reason for higher building costs here

There is no law against having a central system per se. You can have an additional individual independent system in each unit. i know a landlord who has a central system on for several hours morning and night and the tenants are able to turn on and off the radiators and have individual fixed appliances to supplement the central system.

Ray Palmer · 22-04-2020 2:12pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There is no law against having a central system per se. You can have an additional individual independent system in each unit. i know a landlord who has a central system on for several hours morning and night and the tenants are able to turn on and off the radiators and have individual fixed appliances to supplement the central system.

So they have to have two sets of fixed heating appliances. So more expensive to build like I said so. I doubt the building was purpose built as multiple units.

Claw Hammer · 22-04-2020 2:25pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

So they have to have two sets of fixed heating appliances. So more expensive to build like I said so. I doubt the building was purpose built as multiple units.

The building had a central system, when the new regulations came it the central system was left was it was and a few electric heaters wee screwed to the floors.

Electric Sheep · 22-04-2020 3:45pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

What? That is the most unrealistic thing I have heard in a long term. Utilities are not included in rent as the norm in the USA. Normally only in old converted houses due to the hassle of dividing up utilities. In Ireland you cannot have a central heating system for an entire block each unit has to be separate

My experience of the last 30 years differs from yours. In all of the rentals I had before I bought, heat, air, and hot water were all included. I guess if you rent from a slumlord it may be different, more on a par with Ireland.

22-04-2020 4:21pm

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Yes, but in the US that will include 24 hour heat, hot water, and air conditioning, and frequently parking and access to a swimming pool. Big difference.

Not as far as I’m aware, you are responsible for your own electricity and heating but I’ll check with him next time we are talking out of interest.

Definitely no pool as his previous place (a 1 bed) has a pool etc but the new place is a smaller complex with almost no common areas bar parking. A two bed with pool etc would be pushing up to 4k a month he said due to the fees for pool maintenance etc. He has parking, assume it’s included but it would be in most places in Ireland.

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Income tax is lower in most states too.

That and the salaries are very significant higher and the benefits also if you would for good companies. I visit the US quite a bit and it’s expansive to eat, rent etc some things are cheaper but overall the cost of living is higher but the salaries are 3 times higher (in his case) and tax is lower. So it more than makes up for it.

dennyk · 22-04-2020 4:48pm

Electric Sheep wrote: »

My experience of the last 30 years differs from yours. In all of the rentals I had before I bought, heat, air, and hot water were all included. I guess if you rent from a slumlord it may be different, more on a par with Ireland.

This is very dependent on the location and the type of rental. It's most common with apartments in older buildings in larger cities (especially up north, where heat is more necessary than A/C), which often have a central boiler and/or climate control system supplying all of the units with heat, hot water, and ventilation (whose adequacy depends on how much of a cheap-ass slumlord your landlord is, on a scale from "very" to "extremely"). In newer purpose-built apartments (and of course in individual homes being rented) it's very rare to have any utilities included in the rent, except in a few apartments which may provide free broadband and/or TV service (usually through a ****ty provider who offered a big kickback or a really cheap deal to the building owners, and sometimes with the stipulation that the tenant can't decline the service and choose their own provider, unless there are local laws prohibiting that kind of term in a lease).

Electric Sheep · 22-04-2020 6:32pm

dennyk wrote: »

This is very dependent on the location and the type of rental. It's most common with apartments in older buildings in larger cities (especially up north, where heat is more necessary than A/C), which often have a central boiler and/or climate control system supplying all of the units with heat, hot water, and ventilation (whose adequacy depends on how much of a cheap-ass slumlord your landlord is, on a scale from "very" to "extremely"). In newer purpose-built apartments (and of course in individual homes being rented) it's very rare to have any utilities included in the rent, except in a few apartments which may provide free broadband and/or TV service (usually through a ****ty provider who offered a big kickback or a really cheap deal to the building owners, and sometimes with the stipulation that the tenant can't decline the service and choose their own provider, unless there are local laws prohibiting that kind of term in a lease).

With the exception of my first rental when I first moved to the US, every apartment I rented was in a newer purpose built apartment building, and every one, including the first older style rental included heat, air and hot water. I have always lived in the north east, it may vary in other areas. I have never heard of a rental apartment where the tenant paid for heat or hot water.

Eric Cartman · 22-04-2020 6:43pm

Lexie Black Oaf wrote: »

Why would the country be ****ed up because of that rent level, Irish rent is actually quite reasonable when compared to many countries. I have a friend in the US paying $3500 a month for a two bed apartment, one of the cheapest he could find and just a normal apartment nice but nothing special.

I know somebody who was living in San Fran, 3000 a month for a 1 bed which was actually a studio in a house converted to 4 studios and it was a 'decent price'

Marcusm · 23-04-2020 12:16am

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Not new but it is why electric storage heaters are used in most apartments. Do you know of apartment blocks with central heating systems covered by management fees in Ireland? There may be an exemption for buildings older than 30 years but I think it was in place then too

I do n’t think that this can be correct as the Elm Park development on the Rock Road in Dublin definitely has a communal system for which there is a monthly charge. I recall also that it will be a key feature of any development on the Glass Bottle/Poolbeg sites to take excess heat from the incinerator. I’m sure there has also been a suggestion that excess heat from data centres in west Dublin would in future be used to provide district heating to newly planned developments. (All “green” initiatives.)

daedal · 23-04-2020 3:33am

I’m done with this ****ing forum

Claw Hammer · 23-04-2020 12:26pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Not new but it is why electric storage heaters are used in most apartments. Do you know of apartment blocks with central heating systems covered by management fees in Ireland? There may be an exemption for buildings older than 30 years but I think it was in place then too

There is one in Rathmines, Wynnfield House and another one on the Rock Road beside the former Gowan Motors site.

24-04-2020 6:10am

daedal wrote: »

If only it was that easy, housing shortages doesn’t allow people to pick and choose, it also drives the rent up to unreasonable levels.

Then they should pay the rent on the place they have.

tradingwizz · 03-05-2020 3:01am

The Cool wrote: »

Can I ask - what did you get in rent for this property 5-10 years ago? I'd imagine a fair bit less, though would I be right in saying your mortgage costs etc would stay the same? To explain what I mean - the house I rented in 2014 for €900 is now up on Daft for €1700.

Have you considered how much apartment/house prices have gone up in the last 5-10 years? More than rents!
All costs, inluding mortgage, scale up accordingly!

Claw Hammer · 04-05-2020 1:06pm

tradingwizz wrote: »

Have you considered how much apartment/house prices have gone up in the last 5-10 years? More than rents!
All costs, inluding mortgage, scale up accordingly!

The mortgage on an apartment costs the same throughout the life of the mortgage other than variations cased by varying interest rate which can go up or down.

Manion · 05-05-2020 10:56pm

I for one expect to pay the same price for things now as I did 10 years ago regardless of what has changed in the intervening years.

na1 · 05-05-2020 11:02pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Not if caused by the tenant.

That's exactly what I was talking about: IF insurances can cover this damage, (and probably file a claim against the tenant) then the LLs have less risks and can low the rents

Claw Hammer · 06-05-2020 5:28pm

na1 wrote: »

That's exactly what I was talking about: IF insurances can cover this damage, (and probably file a claim against the tenant) then the LLs have less risks and can low the rents

No insurance will cover damage by a tenant. A claim against the tenant means a case in the RTB.

na1 · 06-05-2020 6:35pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

No insurance will cover damage by a tenant. A claim against the tenant means a case in the RTB.

And this is a problem: would you take a risk of renting the property, if there is a chance that the tenant will stop paying rent for 6-12 months, and when you finally get the court order to evict, you'll find the place wrecked with 10-s of thousands damage?
There are many potential landlords who would prefer to have the property left inhabited, because of this risk.
And other landlords are including these risks into the rental premiums.

Donald Trump · 06-05-2020 9:03pm

TheChizler wrote: »

It's zero cash flow not breaking even. Most investments are negative cash flow until the time comes that they sell or vest, pensions, shares, portfolios. All come with risk.

Seems that people here would think that they should be able to go out and get a loan of a million Euro to buy Facebook shares, with a view to selling them on in 20 years, and turn around and be moaning and giving the poor mouth that the dividends don't pay off the loan capital and interest..............

As for writing down the capital asset, people never take into account that they would then be carrying that asset at a cost of zero and should they sell it, they'd be liable for capital gains on the entire amount. e.g buy for 400k, sell in 10 years for 400k. They you pay CGT tax on 400k.

However that should not be allowed in any case as the state is then taking a portion of the downside risk, which it should not be doing for such an activity as an individual investing in one or two properties.

Manion · 20-05-2020 12:07pm

Hi OP, I was wondering how this worked out for you? I got the phonecall myself yesterday and agreed to a 25% one month only reduction in rent. It reminded me of this thread.

bbehan202 · 20-05-2020 12:28pm

The ended up paying in full after I explained to them via the agency that it puts me at serious risk if they don't pay. I've heard nothing else since.

Their lease is up for renewal in July and I may agree on a slight rent reduction then depending on how the market goes but it is likely to tumble by the end of the year. (I hope it doesn't but let's face it)

Tenants not paying rent

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