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India. weird or wonderful?

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    #32
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    welfare states are a good thing , we can do better than currently is the case however , situations where a third of local authority tenants are in long term arrears makes a complete mockery of so called social contracts , nothing is expected of the so called vulnerable in ireland , eventually the majority grow tired of being told they should be still while being milked


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    #33
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    ScallionAyter wrote: »
    Another wealthy latte liberal, who supports flinging our hard earned money at the feckless and bone idle Jacintas who've never seen a P60 in their life. You're ok with them until they move in next door... then you're onto your TD.

    You never know how your circumstances can change. I'll health and sudden loss of the ability to work and you can suddenly find yourself far from your comfortable lifestyle, and all through no fault of your own.
    The bone idlers are not so many these days, but will always exist. But for those who really need it, our welfare system is barely adequate.
    But at least it's there, and I'm happy to contribute to it for the good it does.


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    #34
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    The polite thing to do would be to give a detailed rebuttal instead of a 'braindead' soundbite just saying..

    More than 140 characters! Come on man, it's not easy juggling many accounts.


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    #35
    Witchie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭Witchie


    Only Goa and Rajasthan are bearable from what I can see. Lived in Goa for a few months and it was lovely but the rest of India (have worked in Bangalore too) is just a sh*thole.

    Dirty, disgusting, frustrating, aggravating....I could go on but you get the picture.

    One thing that really peed me off was broke people, not able to feed their kids are paying for offerings to god's to help them feed their kids. Idiocy and futility of all made me so angry.

    Some wonderful people but you need to get to know them before they are friendly in general. Unlike other places in Asia where you feel welcome straight away.

    Also stop following me around shops, markets, train stations like am gonna steal something. Oh and stop looking at me like am dinner.

    My sister loves it, I hate it. Hope I never have to go back.


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    #36
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    You never know how your circumstances can change. I'll health and sudden loss of the ability to work and you can suddenly find yourself far from your comfortable lifestyle, and all through no fault of your own.
    The bone idlers are not so many these days, but will always exist. But for those who really need it, our welfare system is barely adequate.
    But at least it's there, and I'm happy to contribute to it for the good it does.

    "barely adequate " ?

    its incredibly generous , bar the nordic countries , where is it more generous globally ?


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    #37
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    McCrack wrote: »
    You talk some shyte
    Oh indeed I do, but even then you can't debate beyond the above. One would think shyte would be far easier to rebuff.
    ScallionAyter wrote: »
    Another wealthy latte liberal, who supports flinging our hard earned money at the feckless and bone idle Jacintas who've never seen a P60 in their life. You're ok with them until they move in next door... then you're onto your TD.
    Afraid not. Well the only way you're getting a latte into me is with restraints and a funnel. And nope I couldn't give two fcuks about my neighbours and their business so long as they mind theirs and mine and are pleasant in the passing. Of my neighbours I have one a few doors down(thankfully) who is worth a few bob on paper, though fur coat no knickers comes to mind and is an utter wankbottle. His wife looks like she's been sucking on lemons from the womb and both fancy themselves as "community leaders". I've had to politely and not so politely to tell them to sod off more than once. Another neighbour was willed his gaff and was on the dole for a fair few years and is one of the nicest human beings one could meet and has been very kind to me and mine and others down the years.

    On the "wealthy latte liberal" point. OK, let's imagine for a moment that that's true(though it's not), then why haven't you set aside the shackles of being an impotent PAYE worker with your hard earned being flung at the feckless and and bone idle Jacintas by the lefties in the Dail and become a "wealthy latte liberal" yourself on the sheer strength of your mind, work ethic and bootstrap pulling ability? Then you could relax the kaks, apparently like I have. Tease that thought a bit further and see where it might lead.
    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    welfare states are a good thing , we can do better than currently is the case however , situations where a third of local authority tenants are in long term arrears makes a complete mockery of so called social contracts , nothing is expected of the so called vulnerable in ireland , eventually the majority grow tired of being told they should be still while being milked
    Oh do not get me wrong MM, I agree there are issues and a few serious issues with how it's implemented in this country and the PAYE nine to fiver does get ridden in a few ways. Those taking the piss need to be taken to task. It's the get rid of all social welfare, work will set you free nouveau libertarians that give me a pain in the puckered hole. Especially when damned near every single one of them and their families have benefited at one time or another from our social welfare in some form.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #38
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    "barely adequate " ?

    its incredibly generous , bar the nordic countries , where is it more generous globally ?

    I suppose it depends from which angle you view the welfare system. Yes, I agree for some it is a very handy handout.
    When writing my thoughts were of those in very ill health and bad situations with little chance of improvement.


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    #39
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Must be the high Caste Indians with financial security who land in many countries around the World and offer their knowledge and medical expertise. That is great, and welcome.

    Such is life I suppose, same everywhere. But the treatment or lack thereof of the poor in India is despicable IMV.


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    #40
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Such is life I suppose, same everywhere. But the treatment or lack thereof of the poor in India is despicable IMV.
    Thankfully it's not quite the same everywhere S. But when India are a nuclear power with an effin space programme and they can spend 80 odd million on this monstrosity among others, when the rape and murder of women and kids is so prevalent, poverty is endemic and millions are sh1tting in the streets you have to bloody wonder.

    unity-600x400.jpg

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #41
    ScallionAyter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 177 ✭✭ScallionAyter


    Wibbs, i understand why social welfare gougers spending their money on iPhone 8's doesn't seem to particularly bother you. You've paid 'millions in PAYE' as you say yourself. You're obviously comfortable, so it's just another ivory back scratcher or Tesla upgrade for you.... it makes no difference.

    To the rest of us plebs, who place a higher value on the money that comes into our households through grit and sacrifice, it's a bit more galling.


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    #42
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Thankfully it's not quite the same everywhere S. But when India are a nuclear power with an effin space programme and they can spend 80 odd million on this monstrosity among others, when the rape and murder of women and kids is so prevalent, poverty is endemic and millions are sh1tting in the streets you have to bloody wonder.

    unity-600x400.jpg

    Indeed. But not much will change because of our rants either. Best to stay away IMV.

    That probably cuts off half the world also in their treatment of those less fortunate though.

    Still India is off my to go to list anyway for starters. Always was TBH.

    Delhi Belly is not pleasant either as I have heard from those who ventured!


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    #43
    X111111111111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭X111111111111


    ScallionAyter wrote: »
    I was there for a week. The roads are insane - lanes mean nothing to them. The thing i liked about the place was that there's no welfare state. People are up at the crack of dawn to sell flip flops at the side of the road.

    They must think we're insane with our cradle to grave welfare system. We are.

    Lol yeah i'd much prefer to see our citizens selling their kids for sex on the streets like in India to pay for food and washing in the liffey. I'm glad and proud my taxes go towards our system of welfare. India sounds like a right s h ithole tbh.


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    #44
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    ScallionAyter wrote: »
    Wibbs, i understand why social welfare gougers spending their money on iPhone 8's doesn't seem to particularly bother you. You've paid 'millions in PAYE' as you say yourself. You're obviously comfortable, so it's just another ivory back scratcher or Tesla upgrade for you.... it makes no difference.

    To the rest of us plebs, who place a higher value on the money that comes into our households through grit and sacrifice, it's a bit more galling.
    I've had ups, I've had downs S, some of them sh1tty and over a few years and I've had loads of spare disposable and fcuk all too. No ivory back scratchers or Teslas here, nor would I want them. Indeed avoiding same has left me less in want.

    And as I said...
    Me. Earlier. wrote:
    On the "wealthy latte liberal" point. OK, let's imagine for a moment that that's true(though it's not), then why haven't you set aside the shackles of being an impotent PAYE worker with your hard earned being flung at the feckless and and bone idle Jacintas by the lefties in the Dail and become a "wealthy latte liberal" yourself on the sheer strength of your mind, work ethic and bootstrap pulling ability? Then you could relax the kaks, apparently like I have. Tease that thought a bit further and see where it might lead.

    I am not denying the feckless and the chancers S, of which there are a few and too many, but if it's so easy for all the feckless to go out and make their way with "grit and sacrifice" why can't you make of yourself a comfortable life festooned with ivory back scratchers and your own Tesla in the driveway, so you can sip lattes and not give a damn?

    Like I said the system is nowhere near perfect and liberties are most certainly taken by too many, though outside of rage rhetoric it's a minority, I would still prefer to live in a social democracy with a safety net for all, even if it provides a "hammock" for a minority. And think on this S: If the predictions for automation are even half way accurate, the chances are very high that the average PAYE office worker is going to be replaced, no matter how much work they put in, no matter how much grit and sacrifice, then what then for the future?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #45
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,875 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Wibbs wrote: »
    he predictions for automation are even half way accurate, the chances are very high that the average PAYE office worker is going to be replaced, no matter how much work they put in, no matter how much grit and sacrifice, then what then for the future?

    Ah well, it was good while it lasted.


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    #46
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I've had ups, I've had downs S, some of them sh1tty and over a few years and I've had loads of spare disposable and fcuk all too. No ivory back scratchers or Teslas here, nor would I want them. Indeed avoiding same has left me less in want.

    And as I said...



    I am not denying the feckless and the chancers S, of which there are a few and too many, but if it's so easy for all the feckless to go out and make their way with "grit and sacrifice" why can't you make of yourself a comfortable life festooned with ivory back scratchers and your own Tesla in the driveway, so you can sip lattes and not give a damn?

    Like I said the system is nowhere near perfect and liberties are most certainly taken by too many, though outside of rage rhetoric it's a minority, I would still prefer to live in a social democracy with a safety net for all, even if it provides a "hammock" for a minority. And think on this S: If the predictions for automation are even half way accurate, the chances are very high that the average PAYE office worker is going to be replaced, no matter how much work they put in, no matter how much grit and sacrifice, then what then for the future?

    An interesting interview with someone who thinks automation is going to be devastating.
    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/andrew-yang-freedom-dividend-matt-taibbi-katie-halper-useful-idiots-920375/


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    #47
    Bobblehats
    Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Elephant gods are cool, way cooler than depressing f*ckers on crosses etc.

    Must confess when somebody says to me “not cool” I get a warm fuzzy feeling. As I wear my necklace with pride


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    #48
    Rufeo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Rufeo


    Don't worry, OP, Dublin will soon be Dublinistan.


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    #49
    4Ad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭4Ad


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Elephant gods are cool, way cooler than depressing f*ckers on crosses etc. Also I love their food, although methinks if I actually went to India the food would be totes different.

    The food (vegetarian) was the highlight of my trip, dhosas... Glad I went, I wont be in a hurry back though..


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    #50
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,962 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    I spent two weeks in Bangalore Bengaluru for work (giving training), and while it was interesting, a couple of things made it clear that I could not live there. I had to stay in a apartment block built for foreigners, behind walls, and was told not to go out by myself, but only with a driver. Immediately outside the complex gate there were some nice buildings with abject poverty between them, where I could see people crammed in to a couple of rooms, and beggars hanging round the gates at all hours.

    Bengaluru has some upscale areas too, with some nice-looking multi-storey houses. But the sheer numbers of people around have to be seen to be believed, and don't get me started on the traffic situation. Busy crossings with no traffic control at all, so drivers would just push through, honking regularly to let other cars know they were there.

    I only saw one side of the country, a long way from what the average Indian would see.

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #51
    Letwin_Larry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Letwin_Larry


    sorry lads i think i'll give the place a miss. i know the onion bajjis are to die for but ...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767221/India-rape-victim-candle-lit-march-erupts-violence.html


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    #52
    mvl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    Think the thread title is missing an option for "meh"
    Have to apologize if anyone feels offended by this: I've no interest what so ever in traveling over. And I don't need to be told what I may be missing: I am not traveling in countries where women rights are an issue.


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    #53
    Letwin_Larry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Letwin_Larry


    mvl wrote: »
    Think the thread title is missing an option for "meh"
    Have to apologize if anyone feels offended by this: I've no interest what so ever in traveling over. And I don't need to be told what I may be missing: I am not traveling in countries where women rights are an issue.

    it's not just that women's rights are not being respected. the level and intensity of violence against women is truly barbaric.

    first the poor girl is allegedly gang-raped and then she is burnt alive for daring to report it.


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    #54
    Witchie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭Witchie


    bnt wrote: »
    I spent two weeks in Bangalore Bengaluru for work (giving training), and while it was interesting, a couple of things made it clear that I could not live there. I had to stay in a apartment block built for foreigners, behind walls, and was told not to go out by myself, but only with a driver. Immediately outside the complex gate there were some nice buildings with abject poverty between them, where I could see people crammed in to a couple of rooms, and beggars hanging round the gates at all hours.

    Bengaluru has some upscale areas too, with some nice-looking multi-storey houses. But the sheer numbers of people around have to be seen to be believed, and don't get me started on the traffic situation. Busy crossings with no traffic control at all, so drivers would just push through, honking regularly to let other cars know they were there.

    I only saw one side of the country, a long way from what the average Indian would see.

    Which area of Bengaluru were you in? How long ago? I used to walk 10 mins home from work in the afternoon/evening without a bother. It's safe enough. Well as safe as most cities.


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    #55
    Accepting Cookies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭Accepting Cookies


    My company has an office in New Delhi. I was just emailing with our director there and the topic of air pollution there came up. His office and home both have top of the range air filters and he goes nowhere without some high spec face mask on. He point blank admits it is scary and it causes a lot of anxiety and mental health issues with people as it affects their all day, every day life, and some would have medical conditions that make them more vulnerable - or their age (very young/very old). He has asthma and has to be very careful himself. If he misplaced or someone stole his mask, he could not just step outside and drive home without the possibility of a dangerous outcome. Despite it having the most unhealthiest + dangerous air quality in the world farmers will still burn their fields, still do Dewali rituals, etc. They still wont make significant change. Makes me wonder if ultimately we really will pull together as a human race to save our planet... doubtful.

    And I can barely stand to read the news stories of what happens to women there, I can't even read them without being affected. How can people be so barbaric.


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    #56
    Letwin_Larry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Letwin_Larry


    Accepting Cookies wrote: »
    My company has an office in New Delhi. I was just emailing with our director there and the topic of air pollution there came up. His office and home both have top of the range air filters and he goes nowhere without some high spec face mask on. He point blank admits it is scary and it causes a lot of anxiety and mental health issues with people as it affects their all day, every day life, and some would have medical conditions that make them more vulnerable - or their age (very young/very old). He has asthma and has to be very careful himself. If he misplaced or someone stole his mask, he could not just step outside and drive home without the possibility of a dangerous outcome. Despite it having the most unhealthiest + dangerous air quality in the world farmers will still burn their fields, still do Dewali rituals, etc. They still wont make significant change. Makes me wonder if ultimately we really will pull together as a human race to save our planet... doubtful.

    And I can barely stand to read the news stories of what happens to women there, I can't even read them without being affected. How can people be so barbaric.

    the planet like all living systems will react, and the outcome for us will not be good. this planet will continue on its' orbit for eons to come. not so sure mankind will be part of it.


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    #57
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Never been. Would love to go some day.

    I'm sure the poverty is harrowing to observe but I'd still like to visit. The best quote I read about Liberal Instagram guilt was the journalist that was asked how he dealt with the poverty when working there and he said, 'I don't have to deal with poverty, the poor do'.


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    #58
    Letwin_Larry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Letwin_Larry


    and here's another crazy story from India. funny how women always seem to be on the receiving end.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/woman-shot-face-india-wedding-dancing-gun-a9237766.html


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    #59
    Mr_Muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭Mr_Muffin


    I've never been, but the place seems to be a complete dump.


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    #60
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Backpacked a good section of it years back. Its a real assault on the senses and quite the culture shock. I'll never forget being in city centre Dehli with massive traffic jams, all the cars honking and there you have a couple of cows just nochantly walking down the street, owned by no-one but seen as holy so they just do whatever they like.

    The food there is on a serious level, had some really good meals there once you get over the initial Delhi belly which almost everyone gets to some extent. Loved travelling on the trains and in rural areas you can ride them on the roof tops which is an exhilarating experience.

    Politically its a mess. The caste system is basically state and religious sponsored racism that says a person can never rise above their station. For all the genteel religious stuff Hinduism displays the caste system really is a rotten feature. It allows the groups at the top to always retain political and financial control of the country and if the untouchables below them pipe up its prison for them. Another horrible aspect of Hinduism is it teaches people that they are living in hell and the next life is where true paradise is. That has resulted in a culture that never seeks to improve things about or in their lives, and hence why it is such a filthy dump with mass poverty.


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Went to Sri Lanka which people say is India-lite and it was great, but not that bothered with India. If I were to go, I'd rent a Royal Enfield and drive around the north for a few weeks, but I'd more likely go visit Nepal or Iran. India just sounds like it's a bit much.


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