Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Should log cabins be legal to live in??

  • 12-10-2019 9:42am
    #1
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭


    Ok so we know that in other countries tiny houses, log cabins and other such dwellings are legal. Why in Ireland are they not? Some questions just to start us....

    Are canal boats legal to live in?
    Are caravans and mobiles legal to live in?

    I have two family memebers currently renting at a cost of 22k per annum each which isnt sustainable for either. Surely I should be allowed errect a structure such as a log cabin in my back garden for them to live in as a temporary measure until they can afford to buy.

    Do the CIF have any say in the building regs in Ireland? Who decides them exaclty?


«134

Comments

  • #2
    The chan chan man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 824 ✭✭✭The chan chan man


    Stick a mobile home in the garden instead


  • #3
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    The chan chan man wrote: »
    Stick a mobile home in the garden instead

    Why would that be legal? And not a log cabin?


  • #4
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,725 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    It's not legal. He was being facetious I assume.

    Why bother with a log cabin, you could throw up a tent. Or even why bother with the tent - just hollow out a hole in the ground and throw some branches over it?

    The point I'm trying to make is that buildings have to be of a certain standard in order to make them suitable to live in and the standards we have chosen in Ireland are set out in the building regulations. There's nothing in the building regulations that outlaws log cabins - if a log cabin meets the building regulations it is perfectly suitable.

    If you disagree with the building regulations talk to your local TD and lobby to bring back lesser quality, cheaper dwellings like tenaments and bed sits.* I wouldn't agree with that myself but if enough of the population do the politicians will follow the mood!

    The reason you can't build another house in your back garden is usually not the building regulations. It's the planning regulations. They are in place to ensure ordered and sustainable development of the country and prevent a free for all of people building whatever they feel like in any location they want. Again - lobby your politicians (local and national) if you want a change to planning practice and development plans. (In the past people attempted this type of lobbying by handing out brown envelopes! Arguably leading to vested interests having a disproportionate say in planning policy)

    Finally - the CIF is a representative body for the construction industry. They don't set the law - they have to follow it like the rest of us. Although they do lobby for changes, etc. on behalf of their members.

    *I should point out that the actual Building Regulations themselves don't specifically outlaw tenements or bed sits. They deal with more specific items like fire safety, access, ventilation, etc - the net effect of which produces the type of buildings we build these days. I was using these examples for brevity! e.g. The infamous co-living designs are a way of making bedsits compliant with building regulations.


  • #5
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF



    Everyone posting in this thread, please read sections 2,3 & 6 of the forum charter.

    We obey the law in this forum, posters intimating/ discussing how to skirt the law will be banned, thanks
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055036302


  • #6
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    BryanF wrote: »

    Everyone posting in this thread, please read sections 2,3 & 6 of the forum charter.

    We obey the law in this forum, posters intimating/ discussing how to skirt the law will be banned, thanks
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055036302

    Nobody is. Its a legitimate question.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Jonybgud
    Registered Users Posts: 463 ✭✭Jonybgud


    Legal is the wrong word to use here, imo.

    Firstly, putting another living unit on your property requires planning permission, regardless of what it's made of.

    Hurdle 1 get planning permission.

    Hurdle 2 decide what to build the living unit out of and make sure it is compliant with Building Regulations.

    Generally, building a log cabin type structure while making sure it is compliant with Building Regulations makes it an expensive option.

    Currently, the most cost effective method of building is insulated cavity blockwork type construction with trussed slate or tile roof, or minor variations of this type of construction.

    I believe you need to focus your question more on, say, 'why can't family members live in my garden' and have a discussion on this.

    And a question for you,
    Why can't you build onto your house to accommodate your extended family members?


  • #8
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    If the log cabin is attached to the existing house it's ok once the garden still has the minimum square meters left....

    I would like to see it opened up and for adequate size and a comfortable place to live.

    I've done the rental game for 7 years and we were in some serious dives over this time and had no choice as there was no choice but not only that the extortionate pricing too.

    Fighting for a home with 20 or 30 others looking for the same.


  • #9
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    The regs fail though so just how effective are they? It seems that if is block built nobody bats an eyelid.

    Yes legal is the wrong word.


  • #10
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    If the log cabin is attached to the existing house it's ok once the garden still has the minimum square meters left....

    I would like to see it opened up and for adequate size and a comfortable place to live.

    I've done the rental game for 7 years and we were in some serious dives over this time and had no choice as there was no choice but not only that the extortionate pricing too.

    Fighting for a home with 20 or 30 others looking for the same.


    Ive seen some of the log cabin extension on peoples homes. If the outside timber is finished in the same colour as the house they look the part.


  • #11
    Jonybgud
    Registered Users Posts: 463 ✭✭Jonybgud


    smelly sock wrote: »
    The regs fail though so just how effective are they? It seems that if is block built nobody bats an eyelid.

    Where the regs fall down, imo, is the use of the words, 'may, should, shall' instead of 'will, must, have to' which would make things a hell of a lot easier for all concerned.

    I've seen planning permission granted for about 20 'log cabin' type buildings in the past 20 or so years and about the same in extensions, the last being only during this summer, so it does happen, just not often as it isn't a cheap option.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    If the log cabin is attached to the existing house it's ok once the garden still has the minimum square meters left....

    I would like to see it opened up and for adequate size and a comfortable place to live.

    I've done the rental game for 7 years and we were in some serious dives over this time and had no choice as there was no choice but not only that the extortionate pricing too.

    Fighting for a home with 20 or 30 others looking for the same.

    How does the log cabin comply with the Exempted planning requirement for the materials and finish to match that of the main dwelling?


  • #13
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    smelly sock wrote: »
    Ok so we know that in other countries tiny houses, log cabins and other such dwellings are legal. Why in Ireland are they not? Some questions just to start us....

    Are canal boats legal to live in?
    Are caravans and mobiles legal to live in?

    I have two family memebers currently renting at a cost of 22k per annum each which isnt sustainable for either. Surely I should be allowed errect a structure such as a log cabin in my back garden for them to live in as a temporary measure until they can afford to buy.

    Do the CIF have any say in the building regs in Ireland? Who decides them exaclty?

    You have every right to apply for planning for this use.
    Have you done so?


  • #14
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    kceire wrote: »
    How does the log cabin comply with the Exempted planning requirement for the materials and finish to match that of the main dwelling?

    Is that only enforced for log cabins?


  • #15
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,725 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    smelly sock wrote: »
    The regs fail though so just how effective are they?

    I'm not 100% sure what you mean by they "fail"

    Do you mean "Some people ignore the building regulations so why can't I?"

    If so this is not the right forum for obvious reasons.


  • #16
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,725 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    You need to separate Planning Regulations from Building Regulations and understand the difference between the two.

    Even if you get planning permission for a log cabin - which many people do - you still have to comply with the building regulations when you are building/installing it. Planning compliance is completely separate from Building Regulation compliance. So you can completely comply with your planning permission but still end up with a death trap or a half arsed dangerous building.


  • #17
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,518 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    If you have a suitable site, not a back garden attached to a house, you could get something like this:

    snip

    Certainly seems much more affordable for regions where there is more space.


  • #18
    Jonybgud
    Registered Users Posts: 463 ✭✭Jonybgud


    5uspect wrote: »
    If you have a suitable site, not a back garden attached to a house, you could get something like this:

    snip

    Certainly seems much more affordable for regions where there is more space.

    And then make it comply with Building Regulations, end cost?


  • #19
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Ok lets tackle this differently. Should regs be relaxed for these types of temporary dwellings? Im not talking about breaking the current rules or working around them. Im talking about a relaxtion to help aliviate current housing issues. There will always be chancers who take the piss but thats the same for properties that are within regs at the moment. Look at priory hall and the pyrite affected buildings. Or look at ither way which seems to have been done for the developers.

    If a mobile home is legal to holiday in then why cant it be lived in?


  • #20
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    smelly sock wrote: »
    Is that only enforced for log cabins?

    It’s laid out within the exempted development regulations.


  • #21
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    5uspect wrote: »
    If you have a suitable site, not a back garden attached to a house, you could get something like this:

    Snip

    Certainly seems much more affordable for regions where there is more space.

    Call them and ask them about building regulation compliance. You’ll be met with a wall of silence or a significant increase in price.
    smelly sock wrote: »
    Ok lets tackle this differently. Should regs be relaxed for these types of temporary dwellings? Im not talking about breaking the current rules or working around them. Im talking about a relaxtion to help aliviate current housing issues. There will always be chancers who take the piss but thats the same for properties that are within regs at the moment. Look at priory hall and the pyrite affected buildings. Or look at ither way which seems to have been done for the developers.

    If a mobile home is legal to holiday in then why cant it be lived in?

    No, is my opinion.
    We’ve been here before. It was asked in the Dail and it was put to a council vote in Dublin.
    If they are allowed, there is a mess of legislation. What happens after the temp period is up, so the tenants have right if stay? Can they stay there while the home owner goes through the RTB to remove them and subsequent court action that takes 2 years.

    Are we left with a glut of tenancy legislation issues?

    Log cabins as per this and every other thread on here are glorified garden sheds or garden rooms.

    If people really like the lob cabin look, then the structure can be built to take the timber cladding.


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,830 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Detached individual dwellings have both planning and building standards that have to be met in the interests of proper planning and development.

    In the majority of cases where these log cabins are wanted to be used, they do not meet these planning and building standards.

    They are fine as buildings incidental to the main dwelling, such as workshops, hobby rooms, gyms etc... As these kinds of buildings have lesser planning and building standards than detached individual dwellings.

    The vendors of these buildings know this, and are very selective as to the language these use when they claim these are acceptable. I know plenty of incidents of these vendors running tail between legs when requested to provide full certification as a independent dwelling unit.

    There are prefabricated timber structures on the market that do comply, and where certification is available.... But anyone who has purchased one of these knows they are not cheaper than a standard build. Their main advantage is the precision of the build and the speed of erecting.

    Anyone claiming to be able to sell a 1000sq ft home for €40,000 is selling snake oil.


  • #23
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,353 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    smelly sock wrote: »
    Ok lets tackle this differently. Should regs be relaxed for these types of temporary dwellings? Im not talking about breaking the current rules or working around them. Im talking about a relaxtion to help aliviate current housing issues. There will always be chancers who take the piss but thats the same for properties that are within regs at the moment. Look at priory hall and the pyrite affected buildings. Or look at ither way which seems to have been done for the developers.

    If a mobile home is legal to holiday in then why cant it be lived in?

    I’d say no. If for no other reason than it absolves those who should be seeking a solution to the crisis from finding one. If the problem ‘goes away’, why should it be addressed.

    Also, what happens when all the back gardens are full?


  • #24
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,725 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    I also say no. A two tier housing stock with one quality for those who can afford and a lower quality for the huddled masses is in nobody's interest.

    Pissing around with relaxations and piecemeal application of the regulations will obfuscate any actual problems that exist and will leave legacy and unintended consequences for fifty plus years into the future.


  • #25
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    5uspect wrote: »
    If you have a suitable site, not a back garden attached to a house, you could get something like this:

    snip

    Certainly seems much more affordable for regions where there is more space.

    Everybody posting in this thread please read the forum charter thanks https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111489570&postcount=5


  • #26
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,137 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    I'm starting to get ads for "residential log cabins" on Facebook.

    No serious questions asked or answered. Most people either don't know or don't care what the law is.


  • #27
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    The chan chan man wrote: »
    Stick a mobile home in the garden instead

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/si/600/made/en/print#sched2

    See section covering caravans.


  • #28
    arctictree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,336 ✭✭✭arctictree


    I'm amazed when i see those tiny houses on TV and wonder how they get PP.


  • #29
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    arctictree wrote: »
    I'm amazed when i see those tiny houses on TV and wonder how they get PP.

    I'm not because Tiny houses are an American thing not Irish, different country different laws which in the case of America vary state to state and county to county.


  • #30
    Homer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,329 ✭✭✭Homer


    Lumen wrote: »
    I'm starting to get ads for "residential log cabins" on Facebook.

    No serious questions asked or answered. Most people either don't know or don't care what the law is.

    And if you ask comments on these Facebook posts they will with ignore the question of reply with “PM for more info” as they know full well they are against planning and building regs.


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    lalababa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭lalababa


    According to the building regs, what consitutes an acceptable load bearing exterior wall?? Now that's an interesting question.


  • #32
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,725 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    lalababa wrote: »
    According to the building regs, what consitutes an acceptable load bearing exterior wall?? Now that's an interesting question.

    Not 100% sure what you mean? Part A (Structure) doesn't really care what you build the wall out of provided it can hold the appropriate load.

    Parts B, C, D, E and L have various requirements in terms of Fire, Moisture, Materials, Sound and Insulation but again they don't specify that it "has" to be something - they give performance criteria it must meet so you can make your walls out of anything that meets those criteria.


  • #33
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    lalababa wrote: »
    According to the building regs, what consitutes an acceptable load bearing exterior wall?? Now that's an interesting question.

    A wall that complies with the principles of structural engineering.
    It has to be capable of taking the loading from the roof, dead and imposed in all weather including 1 in 100 year storms.

    It also has to withstand fire for a period of time.

    It might seem like an interesting question, but in reality it’s not. We’ve been here before.


  • #34
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,830 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    lalababa wrote: »
    According to the building regs, what consitutes an acceptable load bearing exterior wall?? Now that's an interesting question.

    Why don't the sellers of these sheds do the work necessary to bring them in line with building regs would be a much better pertinent question.

    The answer is of course that the costs incurred would have them back on par with other standard methods of building.


  • #35
    lalababa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭lalababa


    According to regs, for example, how thick would the log need to be, of say Nordic spruce, to satisfy parts B, C, D, & errr L? 500mm ? Assuming they are strong enough structurally.
    Any experts?


  • #36
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    lalababa wrote: »
    According to regs, for example, how thick would the log need to be, of say Nordic spruce, to satisfy parts B, C, D, & errr L? 500mm ? Assuming they are strong enough structurally.
    Any experts?

    Structurally probably less.
    Fire safety of the structure can be achieved as the charting effect helps.

    But you still have heat loss issues, air tightness issues and protection of said structure from fire so that means fixing a plasterboard system to the log. The manufacturers of the said plasterboard system have no test criterial for this so it technically cannot be certified.


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,137 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    I don't think any of these "log cabins" are made out of actual logs, that would be way too expensive. They're treated T&G spruce (or fibre cement) boards on a timber frame.


  • #38
    Bdjsjsjs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭Bdjsjsjs


    There is some misinformation on this thread and frankly it is from people who should know better.

    A real logcabin has good fire safety and adding plasterboard to its wouldnt help fire safety remotely. However the cabins sold in Ireland are basically hardy garden sheds. True log cabins have met building code before and I presume they could meet new building codes being developed.


  • #39
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Bdjsjsjs wrote: »
    There is some misinformation on this thread and frankly it is from people who should know better.

    A real logcabin has good fire safety and adding plasterboard to its wouldnt help fire safety remotely. However the cabins sold in Ireland are basically hardy garden sheds. True log cabins have met building code before and I presume they could meet new building codes being developed.

    Misinformation is from people not reading the thread.
    The log cabins posters are talking here are the €20k cabins that seemly provide 2 bedrooms!

    So I don’t think any of the seasoned posters on here are under any illusions that we are talking about properly constructed and treated log cabins as such.


  • #40
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,725 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    Bdjsjsjs wrote: »
    the cabins sold in Ireland are basically hardy garden sheds


    This is what everyone (with sense) on this thread has been saying since the start.


    Nobody said it's impossible to meet the building regulations using alternative materials and construction styles. It's very possible - but no cheaper than the existing prevalent methods.


  • #41
    lalababa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭lalababa


    Does anybody know how to make the walls of a log cabin meet current building regulations?? How thick, what wood, moisture content, treated with what.. etc.?


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,830 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    lalababa wrote: »
    Does anybody know how to make the walls of a log cabin meet current building regulations?? How thick, what wood, moisture content, treated with what.. etc.?

    nope... as there are a myriad of standards to be tested and certified against....

    why do you think the providers of these are so reluctant to actually have a product which they can stand over as a habitable house?


  • #43
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    lalababa wrote: »
    Does anybody know how to make the walls of a log cabin meet current building regulations?? How thick, what wood, moisture content, treated with what.. etc.?

    Million dollar question.
    Theres no way at the moment. No products are certified for use on sheds/log cabins (Irish version).


  • #44
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    wall as follows, Inside to out:
    Plasterboard,
    50mm service void, (mineral wool at key junctions)
    Vapour barrier/air-tightness membrane ,
    225mm timber framed wall full fill cellulose insulation (twin wall 100mm studs with bracing between),
    Racking board osb,
    breathable felt,
    Cross battened vented cavity (gutex used at key junctions),
    Cement fibre board,
    Acrylic render

    There are lots of timber framed methods used in Ireland that comply/exceed building regs, I don’t know any ‘log cabin’ walls that do.


  • #45
    Bdjsjsjs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭Bdjsjsjs


    BryanF wrote: »
    wall as follows, Inside to out:
    Plasterboard,
    50mm service void, (mineral wool at key junctions)
    Vapour barrier/air-tightness membrane ,
    225mm timber framed wall full fill cellulose insulation (twin wall 100mm studs with bracing between),
    Racking board osb,
    breathable felt,
    Cross battened vented cavity (gutex used at key junctions),
    Cement fibre board,
    Acrylic render

    There are lots of timber framed methods used in Ireland that comply/exceed building regs, I don’t know any ‘log cabin’ walls that do.

    That list is a useful guide to make any room (like those garden sheds) meet code but absolutely you do not need these specs to meet code in all conditions. An actual log cabin from the 1700s would meet many of the code requirements by default.


  • #46
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,137 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Bdjsjsjs wrote: »
    An actual log cabin from the 1700s would meet many of the code requirements by default.

    That statement is neither useful nor accurate.

    Apart from anything else, the major demand for hardwoods in Ireland in the 18th century would have been shipbuilding, and the softwoods were used for charcoal production to produce iron and glass. Such was the demand that by around 1800 there weren't any forests left. As far as I know, nobody was using logs for housing at that time, or since.

    Current Irish timber production is mostly Sitka spruce, which grows very well here (albeit with ruinous environmental consequences), and that wood is not suitable for ground contact (if any wood is, in Irish ground conditions).

    Modern timber frame construction is proper engineering, in the sense that the structure is designed to meet loads using the least amount of timber possible. The timber is usually lifted off the ground and screened from weather, so it lasts indefinitely, is good value and high performance. Which is why professional builders use it.

    Building with actual logs would be ruinously expensive, impractical and would require external and/or internal insulation to achieve the required energy performance. i.e. it's a stupid idea.


  • #47
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,830 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Bdjsjsjs wrote: »
    That list is a useful guide to make any room (like those garden sheds) meet code but absolutely you do not need these specs to meet code in all conditions. An actual log cabin from the 1700s would meet many of the code requirements by default.

    Well that's just compete rubbish.


  • #48
    Bdjsjsjs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭Bdjsjsjs


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Well that's just compete rubbish.
    No its not. As stated a million times, the glorified garden sheds sold here are not log cabins. Well built traditional style log cabins are not passive level but they would be more airtight, secure and fire proof than a lot of the Irish housing stock but its not an easy cheap solution as the materials and skills required to build one are not available here so it would be very very pricey. They are a traditional European building style but not in Ireland. Logically only a handful have been built in Ireland.


  • #49
    Bdjsjsjs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭Bdjsjsjs


    Lumen wrote: »
    That statement is neither useful nor accurate.

    Apart from anything else, the major demand for hardwoods in Ireland in the 18th century would have been shipbuilding, and the softwoods were used for charcoal production to produce iron and glass. Such was the demand that by around 1800 there weren't any forests left. As far as I know, nobody was using logs for housing at that time, or since.

    Current Irish timber production is mostly Sitka spruce, which grows very well here (albeit with ruinous environmental consequences), and that wood is not suitable for ground contact (if any wood is, in Irish ground conditions).

    Modern timber frame construction is proper engineering, in the sense that the structure is designed to meet loads using the least amount of timber possible. The timber is usually lifted off the ground and screened from weather, so it lasts indefinitely, is good value and high performance. Which is why professional builders use it.

    Building with actual logs would be ruinously expensive, impractical and would require external and/or internal insulation to achieve the required energy performance. i.e. it's a stupid idea.
    I am afraid you are totally misquoting me. I didnt say log cabins were built here in 1700s. They are not a traditional Irish style.

    Hardwoods were heavily used for charcoal production.

    Neither did I say they are a cheap option.

    Modern style timber housing is great but needless to say timber structures from hundreds of years ago still stand in UK and elsewhere. Sometimes they use stone footings, like many traditional log cabins but you clearly don't know a lot about timber. So please educate your self and read what people write before attacking them.


  • #50
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,137 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Bdjsjsjs wrote: »
    Sometimes they use stone footings, like many traditional log cabins but you clearly don't know a lot about timber. So pleased educate you self and read what people write before attacking them.

    I was not attacking you, I was responding to the ideas in your post.

    Whereas you claim that I "clearly don't know a lot about timber", which is a personal attack.

    So you're wrong, again. :D

    I am familiar with the use of pad foundations in post and beam construction. It's commonly used in oak framed construction in the UK, but not much in Ireland for various reasons, not least the lack of oak.


  • #51
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,830 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Bdjsjsjs wrote: »
    more airtight, secure and fire proof than a lot of the Irish housing stock.

    proof please?

    you refer to building standards as "code" so im going to suggest your not overly familiar with irish building regulations and standards. american or canadian influence i wonder?

    single skin log cabins.......... (which is exactly what we are talking about here... again let me quote you the query which is being dealt with)
    Does anybody know how to make the walls of a log cabin meet current building regulations??

    ........... will come nowhere near the requirements of irish building regulations in regards to energy efficiency regulations ie elemental u values, air tightness, etc.

    can you point me please to log cabins for sale in ireland which have tested and certified results for u values compatible with an A3 house without remedial works?
    or for air tightness results suitable for MHRV (lets say 3m3/(h.m2) without significant remedial works?

    they do not comply with the requirements of fire spread in TGB in regard to internal linings.. without significant remedial works applied.
    https://www.log-cabins-revealed.com/log-cabin-fire-treatment.html

    can you show me any log cabin for sale in ireland that has a fire spread (linings) rating of B7 or better without remedial works ??


  • Advertisement
Advertisement