Should log cabins be legal to live in??

smelly sock

Ok so we know that in other countries tiny houses, log cabins and other such dwellings are legal. Why in Ireland are they not? Some questions just to start us....

Are canal boats legal to live in?
Are caravans and mobiles legal to live in?

I have two family memebers currently renting at a cost of 22k per annum each which isnt sustainable for either. Surely I should be allowed errect a structure such as a log cabin in my back garden for them to live in as a temporary measure until they can afford to buy.

Do the CIF have any say in the building regs in Ireland? Who decides them exaclty?

The chan chan man

Stick a mobile home in the garden instead

smelly sock

The chan chan man wrote: »

Stick a mobile home in the garden instead

Why would that be legal? And not a log cabin?

Metric Tensor

It's not legal. He was being facetious I assume.

Why bother with a log cabin, you could throw up a tent. Or even why bother with the tent - just hollow out a hole in the ground and throw some branches over it?

The point I'm trying to make is that buildings have to be of a certain standard in order to make them suitable to live in and the standards we have chosen in Ireland are set out in the building regulations. There's nothing in the building regulations that outlaws log cabins - if a log cabin meets the building regulations it is perfectly suitable.

If you disagree with the building regulations talk to your local TD and lobby to bring back lesser quality, cheaper dwellings like tenaments and bed sits.* I wouldn't agree with that myself but if enough of the population do the politicians will follow the mood!

The reason you can't build another house in your back garden is usually not the building regulations. It's the planning regulations. They are in place to ensure ordered and sustainable development of the country and prevent a free for all of people building whatever they feel like in any location they want. Again - lobby your politicians (local and national) if you want a change to planning practice and development plans. (In the past people attempted this type of lobbying by handing out brown envelopes! Arguably leading to vested interests having a disproportionate say in planning policy)

Finally - the CIF is a representative body for the construction industry. They don't set the law - they have to follow it like the rest of us. Although they do lobby for changes, etc. on behalf of their members.

*I should point out that the actual Building Regulations themselves don't specifically outlaw tenements or bed sits. They deal with more specific items like fire safety, access, ventilation, etc - the net effect of which produces the type of buildings we build these days. I was using these examples for brevity! e.g. The infamous co-living designs are a way of making bedsits compliant with building regulations.

BryanF

Everyone posting in this thread, please read sections 2,3 & 6 of the forum charter.

We obey the law in this forum, posters intimating/ discussing how to skirt the law will be banned, thanks
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055036302

smelly sock

BryanF wrote: »

Everyone posting in this thread, please read sections 2,3 & 6 of the forum charter.

We obey the law in this forum, posters intimating/ discussing how to skirt the law will be banned, thanks
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055036302

Nobody is. Its a legitimate question.

Jonybgud

Legal is the wrong word to use here, imo.

Firstly, putting another living unit on your property requires planning permission, regardless of what it's made of.

Hurdle 1 get planning permission.

Hurdle 2 decide what to build the living unit out of and make sure it is compliant with Building Regulations.

Generally, building a log cabin type structure while making sure it is compliant with Building Regulations makes it an expensive option.

Currently, the most cost effective method of building is insulated cavity blockwork type construction with trussed slate or tile roof, or minor variations of this type of construction.

I believe you need to focus your question more on, say, 'why can't family members live in my garden' and have a discussion on this.

And a question for you,
Why can't you build onto your house to accommodate your extended family members?

punisher5112

If the log cabin is attached to the existing house it's ok once the garden still has the minimum square meters left....

I would like to see it opened up and for adequate size and a comfortable place to live.

I've done the rental game for 7 years and we were in some serious dives over this time and had no choice as there was no choice but not only that the extortionate pricing too.

Fighting for a home with 20 or 30 others looking for the same.

smelly sock

The regs fail though so just how effective are they? It seems that if is block built nobody bats an eyelid.

Yes legal is the wrong word.

smelly sock

punisher5112 wrote: »

If the log cabin is attached to the existing house it's ok once the garden still has the minimum square meters left....

I would like to see it opened up and for adequate size and a comfortable place to live.

I've done the rental game for 7 years and we were in some serious dives over this time and had no choice as there was no choice but not only that the extortionate pricing too.

Fighting for a home with 20 or 30 others looking for the same.

Ive seen some of the log cabin extension on peoples homes. If the outside timber is finished in the same colour as the house they look the part.

Jonybgud

smelly sock wrote: »

The regs fail though so just how effective are they? It seems that if is block built nobody bats an eyelid.

Where the regs fall down, imo, is the use of the words, 'may, should, shall' instead of 'will, must, have to' which would make things a hell of a lot easier for all concerned.

I've seen planning permission granted for about 20 'log cabin' type buildings in the past 20 or so years and about the same in extensions, the last being only during this summer, so it does happen, just not often as it isn't a cheap option.

Gumbo

punisher5112 wrote: »

If the log cabin is attached to the existing house it's ok once the garden still has the minimum square meters left....

I would like to see it opened up and for adequate size and a comfortable place to live.

I've done the rental game for 7 years and we were in some serious dives over this time and had no choice as there was no choice but not only that the extortionate pricing too.

Fighting for a home with 20 or 30 others looking for the same.

How does the log cabin comply with the Exempted planning requirement for the materials and finish to match that of the main dwelling?

Gumbo

smelly sock wrote: »

Ok so we know that in other countries tiny houses, log cabins and other such dwellings are legal. Why in Ireland are they not? Some questions just to start us....

Are canal boats legal to live in?
Are caravans and mobiles legal to live in?

I have two family memebers currently renting at a cost of 22k per annum each which isnt sustainable for either. Surely I should be allowed errect a structure such as a log cabin in my back garden for them to live in as a temporary measure until they can afford to buy.

Do the CIF have any say in the building regs in Ireland? Who decides them exaclty?

You have every right to apply for planning for this use.
Have you done so?

smelly sock

kceire wrote: »

How does the log cabin comply with the Exempted planning requirement for the materials and finish to match that of the main dwelling?

Is that only enforced for log cabins?

Metric Tensor

smelly sock wrote: »

The regs fail though so just how effective are they?

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by they "fail"

Do you mean "Some people ignore the building regulations so why can't I?"

If so this is not the right forum for obvious reasons.

Metric Tensor

You need to separate Planning Regulations from Building Regulations and understand the difference between the two.

Even if you get planning permission for a log cabin - which many people do - you still have to comply with the building regulations when you are building/installing it. Planning compliance is completely separate from Building Regulation compliance. So you can completely comply with your planning permission but still end up with a death trap or a half arsed dangerous building.

5uspect

If you have a suitable site, not a back garden attached to a house, you could get something like this:

snip

Certainly seems much more affordable for regions where there is more space.

Jonybgud

5uspect wrote: »

If you have a suitable site, not a back garden attached to a house, you could get something like this:

snip

Certainly seems much more affordable for regions where there is more space.

And then make it comply with Building Regulations, end cost?

smelly sock

Ok lets tackle this differently. Should regs be relaxed for these types of temporary dwellings? Im not talking about breaking the current rules or working around them. Im talking about a relaxtion to help aliviate current housing issues. There will always be chancers who take the piss but thats the same for properties that are within regs at the moment. Look at priory hall and the pyrite affected buildings. Or look at ither way which seems to have been done for the developers.

If a mobile home is legal to holiday in then why cant it be lived in?

Gumbo

smelly sock wrote: »

Is that only enforced for log cabins?

It’s laid out within the exempted development regulations.

Gumbo

5uspect wrote: »

If you have a suitable site, not a back garden attached to a house, you could get something like this:

Snip

Certainly seems much more affordable for regions where there is more space.

Call them and ask them about building regulation compliance. You’ll be met with a wall of silence or a significant increase in price.

smelly sock wrote: »

Ok lets tackle this differently. Should regs be relaxed for these types of temporary dwellings? Im not talking about breaking the current rules or working around them. Im talking about a relaxtion to help aliviate current housing issues. There will always be chancers who take the piss but thats the same for properties that are within regs at the moment. Look at priory hall and the pyrite affected buildings. Or look at ither way which seems to have been done for the developers.

If a mobile home is legal to holiday in then why cant it be lived in?

No, is my opinion.
We’ve been here before. It was asked in the Dail and it was put to a council vote in Dublin.
If they are allowed, there is a mess of legislation. What happens after the temp period is up, so the tenants have right if stay? Can they stay there while the home owner goes through the RTB to remove them and subsequent court action that takes 2 years.

Are we left with a glut of tenancy legislation issues?

Log cabins as per this and every other thread on here are glorified garden sheds or garden rooms.

If people really like the lob cabin look, then the structure can be built to take the timber cladding.

sydthebeat

Detached individual dwellings have both planning and building standards that have to be met in the interests of proper planning and development.

In the majority of cases where these log cabins are wanted to be used, they do not meet these planning and building standards.

They are fine as buildings incidental to the main dwelling, such as workshops, hobby rooms, gyms etc... As these kinds of buildings have lesser planning and building standards than detached individual dwellings.

The vendors of these buildings know this, and are very selective as to the language these use when they claim these are acceptable. I know plenty of incidents of these vendors running tail between legs when requested to provide full certification as a independent dwelling unit.

There are prefabricated timber structures on the market that do comply, and where certification is available.... But anyone who has purchased one of these knows they are not cheaper than a standard build. Their main advantage is the precision of the build and the speed of erecting.

Anyone claiming to be able to sell a 1000sq ft home for €40,000 is selling snake oil.

endacl

smelly sock wrote: »

Ok lets tackle this differently. Should regs be relaxed for these types of temporary dwellings? Im not talking about breaking the current rules or working around them. Im talking about a relaxtion to help aliviate current housing issues. There will always be chancers who take the piss but thats the same for properties that are within regs at the moment. Look at priory hall and the pyrite affected buildings. Or look at ither way which seems to have been done for the developers.

If a mobile home is legal to holiday in then why cant it be lived in?

I’d say no. If for no other reason than it absolves those who should be seeking a solution to the crisis from finding one. If the problem ‘goes away’, why should it be addressed.

Also, what happens when all the back gardens are full?

Metric Tensor

I also say no. A two tier housing stock with one quality for those who can afford and a lower quality for the huddled masses is in nobody's interest.

Pissing around with relaxations and piecemeal application of the regulations will obfuscate any actual problems that exist and will leave legacy and unintended consequences for fifty plus years into the future.

BryanF

5uspect wrote: »

If you have a suitable site, not a back garden attached to a house, you could get something like this:

snip

Certainly seems much more affordable for regions where there is more space.

Everybody posting in this thread please read the forum charter thanks https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111489570&postcount=5

Lumen

I'm starting to get ads for "residential log cabins" on Facebook.

No serious questions asked or answered. Most people either don't know or don't care what the law is.

BryanF

The chan chan man wrote: »

Stick a mobile home in the garden instead

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/si/600/made/en/print#sched2

See section covering caravans.

arctictree

I'm amazed when i see those tiny houses on TV and wonder how they get PP.

Plumbthedepths

arctictree wrote: »

I'm amazed when i see those tiny houses on TV and wonder how they get PP.

I'm not because Tiny houses are an American thing not Irish, different country different laws which in the case of America vary state to state and county to county.

Homer

Lumen wrote: »

I'm starting to get ads for "residential log cabins" on Facebook.

No serious questions asked or answered. Most people either don't know or don't care what the law is.

And if you ask comments on these Facebook posts they will with ignore the question of reply with “PM for more info” as they know full well they are against planning and building regs.

lalababa

According to the building regs, what consitutes an acceptable load bearing exterior wall?? Now that's an interesting question.