Maritime News Thread

Tabnabs · 30-01-2013 4:49pm

who the fug wrote: »

how many people are on the bridge of a naval ship at any one time, would one of them not be looking out the window, or at the echo sounder

When I did a bridge team management course in the NMCI (CIT days) we went out on an INS vessel. It was quite a culture shock from merchant ships where bridge teams were the old man, maybe the 3/0, an AB at the wheel and the cadet to make tea/coffee. On the INS ship it seemed like the entire bloody crew was on the bridge leaving port and I think the cook was reading out depths as we left Cork Harbour... :pac:

But deep sea, you'd run out of paper if the depth sounder was left on continuously...

Modern integrated bridge equipment would probably alarm, but many ships don't have this level of technology I would imagine?

long range shooter · 30-01-2013 4:56pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

When I did a bridge team management course in the NMCI (CIT days) we went out on an INS vessel. It was quite a culture shock from merchant ships where bridge teams were the old man, maybe the 3/0, an AB at the wheel and the cadet to make tea/coffee. On the INS ship it seemed like the entire bloody crew was on the bridge leaving port and I think the cook was reading out depths as we left Cork Harbour... :pac:

But deep sea, you'd run out of paper if the depth sounder was left on continuously...

Modern integrated bridge equipment would probably alarm, but many ships don't have this level of technology I would imagine?

Don't think the lack of equipment is the problem,it's more the famous human error factor I think.:D

http://www.sperrymarine.com/news/ng-supply-usn-destroyers-advanced-navigation-steering-systems

who the fug · 30-01-2013 5:48pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

When I did a bridge team management course in the NMCI (CIT days) we went out on an INS vessel. It was quite a culture shock from merchant ships where bridge teams were the old man, maybe the 3/0, an AB at the wheel and the cadet to make tea/coffee. On the INS ship it seemed like the entire bloody crew was on the bridge leaving port and I think the cook was reading out depths as we left Cork Harbour... :pac:

But deep sea, you'd run out of paper if the depth sounder was left on continuously...

Modern integrated bridge equipment would probably alarm, but many ships don't have this level of technology I would imagine?

The Wiki page makes interesting reading.

This would have confirmed my old fells deep seated prejudices about the navigation capabilities of any Navy.

tricky D · 30-01-2013 7:32pm

Further developments on the USS Guardian, from The Guardian no less!

US navy will dismantle minesweeper stranded on coral reef

The damage to the ship that ran aground in the Philippines is so extensive the vessel will have to be cut up and removed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/30/us-navy-dismantle-minesweeper-coral

Tabnabs · 01-02-2013 10:10am

Well it would have said that if the story appeared in the tabloids

http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/OSV-Manages-to-Secure-Drifting-Russian-Cruise-Ship-Near-Misses-with-Offshore-Platforms/

long range shooter · 01-02-2013 2:07pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

Well it would have said that if the story appeared in the tabloids

http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/OSV-Manages-to-Secure-Drifting-Russian-Cruise-Ship-Near-Misses-with-Offshore-Platforms/

Could be a bonus in salvage money here:D

knucklehead6 · 01-02-2013 2:15pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

Well it would have said that if the story appeared in the tabloids

http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/OSV-Manages-to-Secure-Drifting-Russian-Cruise-Ship-Near-Misses-with-Offshore-Platforms/

They would have completed the image by a picture of the Costa Concordia in her prime too!

Tabnabs · 02-02-2013 9:35am

Cuidad de Cadiz aka The Airbus Ship is aground off Mostyn and proving tricky to refloat. The Kingdom of Fife is standing by to assist http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/showallphotos.aspx?imo=9270062

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2013/02/01/fresh-attempts-to-re-float-airbus-wing-ferry-off-north-wales-coast-55578-32731079/

Tabnabs · 05-02-2013 12:00pm

Emma Maersk has an ingress of water into the engine room and has "terminated" her voyage at Suez.
http://worldmaritimenews.com/archives/75116

Update:
Could be a design flaw
http://www.tradewindsnews.com/casualties/311630/emma-out-for-months?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The Danish shipping giant has also ordered all seven other E-class ships not use their stern thrusters until investigators discover what caused the incident.

Reports say the engine room of the 15,500-teu Emma Maersk (built 2006) has been left under eighteen metres of water.

Maersk Line’s Head of Ship Management, Palle Laursen, said the investigation into the incident was still ongoing, and that repairs will take time.

goldie fish · 05-02-2013 12:54pm

Could be that they are just too big.

10-02-2013 9:47am

tricky D wrote: »

Further developments on the USS Guardian, from The Guardian no less!

US navy will dismantle minesweeper stranded on coral reef

The damage to the ship that ran aground in the Philippines is so extensive the vessel will have to be cut up and removed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/30/us-navy-dismantle-minesweeper-coral

Not surprised at this, 15 or so years ago while doing a job in the Gulf of Mexico, south of Corpus Christi. A shiny new looking US minesweeper turned up and told us to leave the our work-site as we were in his mine hunting exercise area.
He was not impressed when we told him we were aware of the navigational warnings. We knew where we were and his exercise area was 40 odd Nautical Miles to the East of us.

goldie fish · 10-02-2013 5:56pm

Another Bad day for the Cruise Liner industry, just over a Year after Costa Concordia.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0210/367053-five-killed-after-cruise-ship-accident/

jamesdiver · 10-02-2013 9:24pm

sad news

Tabnabs · 11-02-2013 10:41am

Carnival Triumph had an engine room fire but thankfully none of the 3,143 guests nor 1,086 crew were injured. She's 150m off Mexico and it will be Wednesday before she's alongside.

http://maritimematters.com/2013/02/carnival-triumph-engine-room-fire-quelled/

Storm 10 · 11-02-2013 1:50pm

Picture on the link below of a broken cable that held the lifeboat, wonder who checked that one last time

Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21403419

jamesdiver · 12-02-2013 11:51am

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0212/breaking9.html

missing fisherman off a spanish trawler

goldie fish · 12-02-2013 8:49pm

jamesdiver wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0212/breaking9.html

missing fisherman off a spanish trawler

Same vessel was involved in an aborted medevac earlier in the night. Conditions prevented the SAR Heli from reaching the Trawler, so it turned back and they continued towards Bantry Bay, and on way, lost this other crew member.

bladebrew · 13-02-2013 10:50pm

It seems a bit odd though the irish times link and some others mention it was the same crewman that went overboard, it says he was injured at 4:30pm then the helicopter was unable to lift him off then he went overboard at 4am the next morning,

Tabnabs · 19-02-2013 12:10pm

A nice story on the BBC website about the era of massive container ships

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21432226

who the fug · 19-02-2013 6:04pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

A nice story on the BBC website about the era of massive container ships

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21432226

F**k me, seems like yesterday I had a Maresk salesman pulling his hair out wondering how he was going to fill his quota, when they put 6000 TEU on that run from the Far East

Tabnabs · 27-02-2013 11:40am

Tycoon plans to build Titanic 2 (no really!)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/9895834/Mining-tycoon-unveils-plan-to-build-Titanic-2-with-extra-lifeboats.html

MissFire · 28-02-2013 10:11pm

Would any of you know what stena Europe is up to off Wexford harbour. It doesn't seem to be able to dock in Rosslare (?)

HeidiHeidi · 28-02-2013 10:32pm

MissFire wrote: »

Would any of you know what stena Europe is up to off Wexford harbour. It doesn't seem to be able to dock in Rosslare (?)

Seems to be doing a few loop-the-loops alright

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/default.aspx

Tabnabs · 19-03-2013 11:12am

A great piece in the weekly Maritime Monday blog on GCaptain with an Irish theme. The H&W story makes particularly interesting reading.

http://gcaptain.com/maritime-monday-march-eighteen-twentythirteen-f-the-pope/

Tabnabs · 19-03-2013 12:02pm

The reinstatement of a ferry link between Cork and Britain is not feasible in the current economic climate, according to a report compiled by transport experts.

Full story here http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/reopening-cork-uk-ferry-link-unfeasible-225861.html

goldie fish · 20-03-2013 2:06am

Not while sterling is so strong against the Euro. They also need not to be competing against flights to the UK. Guess I have to keep driving to Rosslare!

roundymac · 20-03-2013 11:53am

A Cork-UK service would be seasonal at best. It would also have to be run by a shipping company, not be a group of well meaning people who might have been experts in their own field but not in running a ferry company. Also the improved roads to Rosslare and the impact of LC airlines would have to allowed for. I priced a trip to Swansea on the Julia, it worked out cheaper for me to do a fly-drive to Bristol with Aer Lingus than take the ferry.

seanmacc · 20-03-2013 1:56pm

ICG results were out last week.

http://www.icg.ie/documents/2013/full-year-results-2012.pdf

or they have a presentation :http://www.icg.ie/documents/2013/full-year-results-presentation-2012.pdf

In relation to Cork-Swansea, it is unfeasible without a subsidy or a large company taking it up to employ economies of scale to the route. Looking at the ICG presentation you can see that their fuel cost went up over 12% from 2011 with a practically identical number of sailings.

If anything is to come to Cork it will be the long proposed route to Spain. That route would be eligable for a grant/subsidy under the EU's "Highways of the Sea" plan. Although I believe if that was the case ICG may challenge such a subsidy as about 30% of their freight movements on the direct route to France go into Spain.

goldie fish · 20-03-2013 9:36pm

roundymac wrote: »

A Cork-UK service would be seasonal at best. It would also have to be run by a shipping company, not be a group of well meaning people who might have been experts in their own field but not in running a ferry company. Also the improved roads to Rosslare and the impact of LC airlines would have to allowed for. I priced a trip to Swansea on the Julia, it worked out cheaper for me to do a fly-drive to Bristol with Aer Lingus than take the ferry.

How much did Aer lingus charge you to bring your chalet tent, baby buggy and bicycles?

roundymac · 20-03-2013 9:50pm

goldie fish wrote: »

How much did Aer lingus charge you to bring your chalet tent, baby buggy and bicycles?

They quoted me €495 with a car, I could'nt believe it was reasonable plus as I wanted to go to Devon and Cornwall, it was €450 for the two of us plus car in the ferry and that's only as far as Swansea. In the end the "boss" deceided she wanted a sun holiday so we compromised and went to her sister's in New York.:(

goldie fish · 21-03-2013 3:51am

But you aren't comparing like with like. People with motorbikes, Camper Vans, Trucks, Tour Buses, Vans, they are the ones whose only option is to take a ferry.

Pedestrians can do what they want.

Ever flown with 3 kids under 5?

jamesdiver · 22-03-2013 10:43pm

http://www.galwaynews.ie/30821-hsa-investigates-workplace-death-city-docks

HSA INVESTIGATES WORKPLACE DEATH AT CITY DOCKS

Always sad to hear of these incidents. Thoughts are with his family, friends and work mates.

James

LiamoSail · 23-03-2013 12:30am

goldie fish wrote: »

But you aren't comparing like with like. People with motorbikes, Camper Vans, Trucks, Tour Buses, Vans, they are the ones whose only option is to take a ferry.

Pedestrians can do what they want.

Ever flown with 3 kids under 5?

Why don't you just take a private helicopter? I mean, it's probably about as financially viable for an average family of five to run their own helicopter as it is for any company to run a cork Swansea ferry

roundymac · 23-03-2013 11:37am

goldie fish wrote: »

But you aren't comparing like with like. People with motorbikes, Camper Vans, Trucks, Tour Buses, Vans, they are the ones whose only option is to take a ferry.

Pedestrians can do what they want.

Ever flown with 3 kids under 5?

I was comparing what I would be doing, and giving it as an example. Most people I think would rather spend 3-4 hours on a ferry rather than 10+ hours, even if it means 2-3 hours driving to Rosslare and the same again when you get to the other side before you get to Swansea. My point is that the price was high. I know it's a bit like pricing Ryanair, the initial price is was people go for, add in the petrol and it might be closer to the mark. And no,thankfully I never had the "pleasure" of trying to fly with 3 kids under 5.

goldie fish · 23-03-2013 1:32pm

roundymac wrote: »

I was comparing what I would be doing, and giving it as an example. Most people I think would rather spend 3-4 hours on a ferry rather than 10+ hours, even if it means 2-3 hours driving to Rosslare and the same again when you get to the other side before you get to Swansea. My point is that the price was high. I know it's a bit like pricing Ryanair, the initial price is was people go for, add in the petrol and it might be closer to the mark. And no,thankfully I never had the "pleasure" of trying to fly with 3 kids under 5.

I'm not being critical, but your answer summarises, unfortunately the mindset of those who tried to run the ferry. The only advantage Cork-Swansea had over cork-rosslare-fishguard-swansea was less time driving, but a longer overall trip, weather dependant.
If they had a more efficient ship, and concentrated on ro-ro freight rather than a fickle tourist market, they may have had more success.

Dub13 · 23-03-2013 6:00pm

seanmacc wrote: »

If anything is to come to Cork it will be the long proposed route to Spain. That route would be eligable for a grant/subsidy under the EU's "Highways of the Sea" plan. Although I believe if that was the case ICG may challenge such a subsidy as about 30% of their freight movements on the direct route to France go into Spain.

I was not aware there was ever plans for this,would make some sense.The last few years I have gone to France with Irish ferries and from talking to people on the boat a good chunk of them were heading down south in France or to Spain.

goldie fish · 23-03-2013 6:26pm

The amount of fish from Irish waters that is shipped direct to Spain by road is shocking. It's a long route though, probably over 24 hours.

Bagenal · 24-03-2013 9:48pm

goldie fish wrote: »

The amount of fish from Irish waters that is shipped direct to Spain by road is shocking. It's a long route though, probably over 24 hours.

I agree that the Cork - Spain route would be over 24 hours but the Rosslare - Cherbourg route is 16 hours at best then add in the drive from Cork - Rosslare + the drive from Cherbourg to Spain + a driver would have to take a daily rest period. If there was a Cork - Spain ferry the driver could have his weekly 24 hour break.
The idea of the Cork - Spain ferry sounds like a good idea but IMO I don't think there would be enough freight traffic to justify it. I would also doubt that there would be enough tourist traffic in the peak season let alone in the off season. Of course I'm open to correction on any of the above, just my opinion, I don't have any hard facts.

seanmacc · 24-03-2013 10:02pm

Bagenal wrote: »

I agree that the Cork - Spain route would be over 24 hours but the Rosslare - Cherbourg route is 16 hours at best then add in the drive from Cork - Rosslare + the drive from Cherbourg to Spain + a driver would have to take a daily rest period. If there was a Cork - Spain ferry the driver could have his weekly 24 hour break.
The idea of the Cork - Spain ferry sounds like a good idea but IMO I don't think there would be enough freight traffic to justify it. I would also doubt that there would be enough tourist traffic in the peak season let alone in the off season. Of course I'm open to correction on any of the above, just my opinion, I don't have any hard facts.

The freight traffic would be there alright. There's already a massive lack of capacity on the direct route from Ireland to France for freight. A report I heard about over 30% of traffic going on the direct route to France ends up in Spain. But then again there may be no need to introduce a route to Spain if freight capacity directly into France was increased.

Long haul ferry routes are a risky venture in this day and age though

Dub13 · 24-03-2013 10:06pm

How long is the one from Plymouth...?I presume we would be looking at around the same time.

Bagenal · 24-03-2013 10:18pm

seanmacc wrote: »

The freight traffic would be there alright. There's already a massive lack of capacity on the direct route from Ireland to France for freight. A report I heard about over 30% of traffic going on the direct route to France ends up in Spain. But then again there may be no need to introduce a route to Spain if freight capacity directly into France was increased.

Long haul ferry routes are a risky venture in this day and age though

You are possibly correct Sean but would a good deal of the 30% going to Spain be the livestock trucks? If there was a service from Cork the boat would have to be approved for and willing to carry them.
Dub13 the Brittany Ferries website says 20 hours from Plymouth to Santander.

seanmacc · 24-03-2013 10:40pm

Bagenal wrote: »

You are possibly correct Sean but would a good deal of the 30% going to Spain be the livestock trucks? If there was a service from Cork the boat would have to be approved for and willing to carry them.

None of it is. It was going on Oscar Wilde movements and they don't take livestock at all (horses excepted). A large proportion of it is meat and fresh produce.

Probably the best option for a regular Ro-Ro service to Spain is a freight ship with a decent PC. A lot of the demand would be drop trailer business. They would probably only need to take no more that 30 cars or so during peak season.

Tabnabs · 26-03-2013 10:32pm

Lots of interesting reading in the Ports Policy report published today

The main features of the new policy are:

Instead of adopting a ‘laissez faire’ approach, the Government will become a more active or activist shareholder;
Private investment in the ports will be encouraged;
Move from a ‘one size fits all’ policy to one that recognises that different ports have different roles to play, now and in the future. In recognising the different roles of each port, this policy determines which are of National Significance and have a national function, and which are of Regional Significance with a specialist significance at national level:

Ports of National Significance (Tier 1) are designated as: Dublin Port Company, the Port of Cork Company and Shannon Foynes Port;
Ports of National Significance (Tier 2) are designated as Rosslare Europort and the Port of Waterford Company;
Ports of Regional Significance: The remaining 14 ports account for 8% of national trade, but many have national significance in terms of specialist services or products. These include the five State companies at Drogheda, Dún Laoghaire, Galway, New Ross and Wicklow. These Ports of Regional Significance will be placed within a local authority-led governance structure with local authorities taking shareholdings in the ports.

• Future investment in deepwater capacity, when needed, will not occur until it has been subjected to stringent analysis commissioned by the Department, and will be led by the national ports;
• The commercial mandate of ports will remain. They will be expected to turn a profit, pay a dividend and will not receive Exchequer grants.

The new policy will allow for appropriate private-sector investment in ports. A new performance oversight system, and a new approach to capacity planning, will be developed to make sure that all ports are fulfilling their potential.

http://www.imdo.ie/IMDO/newsroom/top-news-story.htm

http://www.imdo.ie/NR/rdonlyres/70F32679-8CBF-4002-8FBA-F5FF3EF1DAF4/0/NationalPortsPolicy2013Web.pdf

http://afloat.ie/port-news/port-and-shipping-news/item/21265-new-ports-policy-to-provide-framework-for-maritime-sector-development

goldie fish · 26-03-2013 11:29pm

A bit of cohesion is what was needed. No real point in all the ports competing against each other for work.

long range shooter · 27-03-2013 1:29pm

The worlds first shiptunnel is being built in Norway in 2017-2018.
The Norwegian government has given 1 billion to start of the project.just in the news a few days ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stad_Ship_Tunnel

http://www.adressa.no/nyheter/trondheim/article3286653.ece

goldie fish · 27-03-2013 2:06pm

Surely that story should have been released on Monday?

1.6bn NKR????!!! That's only €200m

Tabnabs · 27-03-2013 3:34pm

They've been talking about that project for years. Stad headland is a ferocious area and they regularly have to convoy small boats (leisure stuff) around to keep them safe. Sounds outlandish as a concept, but sure they've more money than sense up there

long range shooter · 27-03-2013 9:16pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

They've been talking about that project for years. Stad headland is a ferocious area and they regularly have to convoy small boats (leisure stuff) around to keep them safe. Sounds outlandish as a concept, but sure they've more money than sense up there

Its gonna change the course for all shipping along the coast of Norway;)
Instead of crossing the weather hard stadt,they can go trough the tunnel instead,saves alot of time and money.
And i am sure its gonna be a huge tourist attraction:D
Two tunnels are planned,one big takes the hurtigruten sized vessels,and one small for leisure boats,fishing boats etc.

Bagenal · 31-03-2013 12:40pm

seanmacc wrote: »

None of it is. It was going on Oscar Wilde movements and they don't take livestock at all (horses excepted). A large proportion of it is meat and fresh produce.

Probably the best option for a regular Ro-Ro service to Spain is a freight ship with a decent PC. A lot of the demand would be drop trailer business. They would probably only need to take no more that 30 cars or so during peak season.

Would 30% of the freight carried on the Oscar Wilde make it viable to start a direct route to Spain from Cork.
It's capacity ( taken from marinetraffic.com)
Capacity

PAX: 1458
Cars: 580
Trucks: 65
RoRo Lanes Length: 1220
So on 4 trips a week (3 to Cherbourg and 1 to Roscoff) carrying it's max capacity of freight = 260 30% of which is 78 one way. I would think that amount would only justify 1 sailing each direction per week, the vessel would need other routes to operate on for the rest of the week.

As Goldie Fish said theres no point in all ports competing for similar routes.

You have to take into account also that some of those hauliers are paid on a per km basis and would be very reluctant to use a direct ferry which would result in loss of earnings as they don't get paid for sitting on a ferry.
It would also be very difficult to operate a dropped trailer service due to cabotage rules.

seanmacc · 31-03-2013 2:05pm

Bagenal wrote: »

Would 30% of the freight carried on the Oscar Wilde make it viable to start a direct route to Spain from Cork.
It's capacity ( taken from marinetraffic.com)
Capacity

PAX: 1458
Cars: 580
Trucks: 65
RoRo Lanes Length: 1220
So on 4 trips a week (3 to Cherbourg and 1 to Roscoff) carrying it's max capacity of freight = 260 30% of which is 78 one way. I would think that amount would only justify 1 sailing each direction per week, the vessel would need other routes to operate on for the rest of the week.

As Goldie Fish said theres no point in all ports competing for similar routes.

You have to take into account also that some of those hauliers are paid on a per km basis and would be very reluctant to use a direct ferry which would result in loss of earnings as they don't get paid for sitting on a ferry.
It would also be very difficult to operate a dropped trailer service due to cabotage rules.

During the Summer season the Oscar Wilde turns down an absolute load of trucks on every sailing, as a result a large amount of the freight has to drive through Britain. Extra capacity to the continent will also make it easier for exporters and the importation of products from the continent. If there is an easier way to import/export to the continent the market will grow. Any route directly to Spain will be mainly drop trailer business, I can't see how cabotage rules can effect this. Already you have drivers sitting on the Oscar Wilde/ Celtic Horizon for 18 hours+. What's another 6?

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