Informal Hill Climb TT - Ticknock Sunday 24 February

Sunsets On Tuesday · 16-02-2019 1:26am

Alek wrote: »

How do you plan to tackle the barrier mid-way? If you can't get it open there will be a lot of frustration trying to negotiate around it on a road bike, especially if a walker will be standing there. How about starting just past it?

I think where we're starting is okay, it's just the one barrier and getting passed it is usually grand. At that time it won't be too busy either - most you'll be losing is a few seconds, but it all balances out :-)

saccades · 16-02-2019 9:52pm

Having helped run competitive events including the route you are talking about, i presume you have had a chat with coilte?

There are 3 points that need marshalls for uphill as a minimum.

I'd advise some polite "race" signs at the main intersections and temporary marking/tape to separate the tarmac.

99.99% of everyone is sound up there as its people well aware of ticknoc as an outside resource. However coilte are not sound, please think about other clubs wanting to run events after you.

Proper national events have had to be cancelled after coilte took offense at half arsed stuff.

Sunsets On Tuesday · 17-02-2019 1:29am

saccades wrote: »

Having helped run competitive events including the route you are talking about, i presume you have had a chat with coilte?

There are 3 points that need marshalls for uphill as a minimum.

I'd advise some polite "race" signs at the main intersections and temporary marking/tape to separate the tarmac.

99.99% of everyone is sound up there as its people well aware of ticknoc as an outside resource. However coilte are not sound, please think about other clubs wanting to run events after you.

Proper national events have had to be cancelled after coilte took offense at half arsed stuff.

Again, it's an informal "event". Be there at the time we advised if you wish, do the climb later in the day, or don't do it at all. As I've posted previously, don't expect anything from us at all other than a nice welcome. We've not contacted coillte, nor arranged marshalls, nor organised time keeping or anything.

Bottom line, it's a simple event where you climb, you chat if you wish and that's that. Nothing more, nothing less.

CramCycle · 17-02-2019 5:41pm

Is there anyone taking times at all? It sounds like your just planning a meet up, not a TT. We have had a few informal TTs via posts here before, where someone gave you a time to set of, and someone else recorded the time you went past the top at. That is an informal TT. Anything less than that and you are just asking people to turn up not to do anything, it would be very weird as the organising club if you didn't have someone at the top to take a finish time or at least say congratulations. At the very least, a person at the bottom, one at the top and one at the barrier, anything less and it makes your club look bad more than anything else.

Sunsets On Tuesday · 17-02-2019 6:14pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Is there anyone taking times at all? It sounds like your just planning a meet up, not a TT. We have had a few informal TTs via posts here before, where someone gave you a time to set of, and someone else recorded the time you went past the top at. That is an informal TT. Anything less than that and you are just asking people to turn up not to do anything, it would be very weird as the organising club if you didn't have someone at the top to take a finish time or at least say congratulations. At the very least, a person at the bottom, one at the top and one at the barrier, anything less and it makes your club look bad more than anything else.

Yes. If you wish to get bogged down in the semantics of what we decided to call this, then it's a meet up as opposed to an informal Hill Climb. Any Hill Climb I've done with Boards has been done solely through Strava, and I think that has worked well in the past.

We did consider timing it in a way that you said, but firstly we are a small club, and secondly, it would be too complicated if there are multiple cyclists performing at the same time, with overtaking and the like.
You are more than welcome to time people in that manner if you'd like, but again;

Don't expect ANYTHING from us other than a warm welcome.

These sort of expectations are what put people off organising more cycling events in Dublin I believe. I don't think we'll be doing it again anyways..

CramCycle · 17-02-2019 8:34pm

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

Yes. If you wish to get bogged down in the semantics of what we decided to call this, then it's a meet up as opposed to an informal Hill Climb. Any Hill Climb I've done with Boards has been done solely through Strava, and I think that has worked well in the past.

We did consider timing it in a way that you said, but firstly we are a small club, and secondly, it would be too complicated if there are multiple cyclists performing at the same time, with overtaking and the like.
You are more than welcome to time people in that manner if you'd like, but again;

Don't expect ANYTHING from us other than a warm welcome.

These sort of expectations are what put people off organising more cycling events in Dublin I believe. I don't think we'll be doing it again anyways..

I am trying to be helpful, even if it doesn't seem that way. A small club or not, informal or not, if you organise something and there is nothing at all there, some people will never come back, and others will look at you and laugh. Lets say a few people from TCD see the posters, and think, I like the sound of this, might spin out. They might turn out on MTBs, Hybrids, road bikes, whatever but if there is no one there to even just take a time, you will never see a good chunk of them ever again.

I appreciate your trying to do something but in reality, you appear to be doing nothing except putting up a poster. All you need is three people and you have changed it from nothing into something. Three high vis vests, person at the start with a piece of paper and names and their starting time, a person at the top to write down names and finishing times, it doesn't have to be wildly accurate. A cheap token medal for a fiver and you now have an inaugral event for almost nothing except your time, and something like that gets people interested, and they will come back.

I have been to two boards hill climbs, there was a meeting time, a person at the top and one at the bottom. It was relatively quick but it was an enjoyable morning

Also I know a few people mentioned CI insurance, pretty sure it doesn't cover anyone who is not CI in this case but your college club insurance might, certainly what the college league used to use.

Sunsets On Tuesday · 18-02-2019 1:24pm

Given the concerns raised by many and the expectations that people have from us from this event, I do not believe we can go ahead with it.

I was simply trying to create a nice meet up for the Dublin Cycling community with a bit of friendly competition involved. I made it clear from the beginning that we could provide nothing but a warm welcome. But perhaps somewhat understandably, people expected more.

Also, the biking.ie guys said they will not open early to cater for the people climbing before 9:30/10, so even the "chat over a coffee" aspect is lost.

I feel that if we were to do anything more than just provide a concept and a time to meet up in a certain place, then it would make sense that people would have certain expectations. But this was never the case and I truly endeavored to make that clear from the offset.
I was basing the idea for this event off previous boards.ie events that I've taken part in and very much enjoyed - things like the evil, weevil, and hill climb TTs, where you understand that it's an informal event and you can expect nothing from the "organisers"

Lastly, I went up Ticknock on Saturday afternoon (when Ticknock would be at its busiest) and it was okay. Busy, but I still got a clear run in. However, a friend of mine went up yesterday at 9:45 and said it was busy with walkers and that he was slowed down somewhat.

I'm disappointed that I have to do this, and somewhat annoyed due to the time I've lost in trying to organise this nice, simple event.

A number of us will still be there on Sunday at around 8:30 to put in an effort. Feel free to put in your own time during the day via Strava, and we can post the top 5 here. But the event in all other respects is cancelled.

secman · 18-02-2019 1:49pm

To be honest, probably the best approach, set up a segment on Strava and let people simply ride it anytime on Sat or Sun, which ever day is decided on, Simples and nobody responsible for anybody but for yourself.
Best of luck with not running it

mloc123 · 18-02-2019 1:57pm

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

Given the concerns raised by many and the expectations that people have from us from this event, I do not believe we can go ahead with it.

I was simply trying to create a nice meet up for the Dublin Cycling community with a bit of friendly competition involved. I made it clear from the beginning that we could provide nothing but a warm welcome. But perhaps somewhat understandably, people expected more.

Also, the biking.ie guys said they will not open early to cater for the people climbing before 9:30/10, so even the "chat over a coffee" aspect is lost.

I feel that if we were to do anything more than just provide a concept and a time to meet up in a certain place, then it would make sense that people would have certain expectations. But this was never the case and I truly endeavored to make that clear from the offset.
I was basing the idea for this event off previous boards.ie events that I've taken part in and very much enjoyed - things like the evil, weevil, and hill climb TTs, where you understand that it's an informal event and you can expect nothing from the "organisers"

Lastly, I went up Ticknock on Saturday afternoon (when Ticknock would be at its busiest) and it was okay. Busy, but I still got a clear run in. However, a friend of mine went up yesterday at 9:45 and said it was busy with walkers and that he was slowed down somewhat.

I'm disappointed that I have to do this, and somewhat annoyed due to the time I've lost in trying to organise this nice, simple event.

A number of us will still be there on Sunday at around 8:30 to put in an effort. Feel free to put in your own time during the day via Strava, and we can post the top 5 here. But the event in all other respects is cancelled.

I bet you regret ever posting at this stage... trial by boards

Taxuser1 · 18-02-2019 2:04pm

nothing stopping everyone here doing the segment sometime over the weekend and talking about it monday. i'm not exactly certain what has happened to the basic premise here. ride the climb and let's see who has the best excuses afterwards.

mloc123 · 18-02-2019 2:14pm

Taxuser1 wrote: »

nothing stopping everyone here doing the segment sometime over the weekend and talking about it monday. i'm not exactly certain what has happened to the basic premise here. ride the climb and let's see who has the best excuses afterwards.

Which is how I read the original idea... go, cycle the Strava segment on the same day... maybe tag it as Ticknock TT. If a bunch of people show up at the same time have a chat and a coffee... sounds like a very simple setup.

Somehow that has turned into some big drama. Getting sign off from Coilte, needing marshalls, official time sheets.... probably need medals and prizes at this stage.

Fighting Tao · 18-02-2019 2:17pm

mloc123 wrote: »

Which is how I read the original idea... go, cycle the Strava segment on the same day... maybe tag it as Ticknock TT. If a bunch of people show up at the same time have a chat and a coffee... sounds like a very simple setup.

Somehow that has turned into some big drama. Getting sign off from Coilte, needing marshalls, official time sheets.... probably need medals and prizes at this stage.

Don’t forget the podium and bubbly.

It has gotten ridiculous!

CramCycle · 18-02-2019 2:19pm

I'm still gonna do it. And the previous posters are all right in this regard, I imagine I was overthinking it.
The issue was more that it sounded like an official club event, which has several issues if someone turns up, falls or injures another person and then decides to take the club to task over it. Highly unlikely but CI won't stand behind them on this, their college insurance might but the club would be shut.
Might try and set the standard to beat on Friday night for convenience.

Fighting Tao · 18-02-2019 2:43pm

CramCycle wrote: »

I'm still gonna do it. And the previous posters are all right in this regard, I imagine I was overthinking it.
The issue was more that it sounded like an official club event, which has several issues if someone turns up, falls or injures another person and then decides to take the club to task over it. Highly unlikely but CI won't stand behind them on this, their college insurance might but the club would be shut.
Might try and set the standard to beat on Friday night for convenience.

To me, It’s just a hi from the people in the club. It’s small and just to let people know that they are about even though they are never mentioned. Everyone has a bit of craic. Group of friends heading for a spin together type thing.

The club does have some alumni members so if you attended TCD you could join for a pittance.

irishrover99 · 18-02-2019 2:54pm

Ill give it a go on Friday(weather dependent) and post my time here.
It will be a good way to blow off the cobwebs.

But honestly, if someone crashes into a walker while going uphill at about 14kph, they shouldn't be cycling.

CramCycle · 18-02-2019 2:55pm

irishrover99 wrote: »

Ill give it a go on Friday(weather dependent) and post my time here.
It will be a good way to blow off the cobwebs.

But honestly, if someone crashes into a walker while going uphill at about 14kph, they shouldn't be cycling.

If many people are doing over 14kmph I will be surprised :pac:

irishrover99 · 18-02-2019 3:03pm

CramCycle wrote: »

If many people are doing over 14kmph I will be surprised :pac:

I'm 24th overall on the segment with an average of 14.8 kph so i think these days ill be lucky to manage 13 kph.
I also seen that their will be a strong head wind on Friday:pac:

Sunsets On Tuesday · 18-02-2019 3:36pm

mloc123 wrote: »

Which is how I read the original idea... go, cycle the Strava segment on the same day... maybe tag it as Ticknock TT. If a bunch of people show up at the same time have a chat and a coffee... sounds like a very simple setup.

Somehow that has turned into some big drama. Getting sign off from Coilte, needing marshalls, official time sheets.... probably need medals and prizes at this stage.

My thoughts exactly. I believe the fact that there was a cycling club's name attached to the event made people have different expectations. I'll know for future to just say it's myself organising it, and some of my club members will be there.
Trial by Boards indeed!

route66 · 18-02-2019 3:56pm

CramCycle wrote: »

I'm still gonna do it. And the previous posters are all right in this regard, I imagine I was overthinking it.

Yes, you were.

CramCycle wrote: »

The issue was more that it sounded like an official club event, which has several issues if someone turns up, falls or injures another person and then decides to take the club to task over it. Highly unlikely but CI won't stand behind them on this, their college insurance might but the club would be shut.
Might try and set the standard to beat on Friday night for convenience.

WTF?

Who mentioned insurance? Seriously, can anything in this country be done without worrying about insurance? I know a bit about insurance but just what part of "informal, just-for-fun event." do you not understand? If you meet your friends for a few pints - something that could be described as an "informal, just-for-fun event." - would you look for compo if you drank too much and tripped over?

I'm actually angry now.

CramCycle · 18-02-2019 4:14pm

route66 wrote: »

Who mentioned insurance? Seriously, can anything in this country be done without worrying about insurance? I know a bit about insurance but just what part of "informal, just-for-fun event." do you not understand? If you meet your friends for a few pints - something that could be described as an "informal, just-for-fun event." - would you look for compo if you drank too much and tripped over?

I'm actually angry now.

You may be angry, and it is undoubtedly in most scenarios a non issue but the truth of the matter is the clubs name is attached, it is an event, and if someone hurt themselves taking part in it, there is a limited but nonetheless potential risk they would point the finger at the organiser. Realistically, this will never happen but once you put the clubs name to it, you have to be wary that there are a number of legal scumbags that fester in modern society who'd be willing to sue Coillte for falling on a wooden path for 60k for a sprained ankle, you can be sure there is a small but nonetheless real risk some prick would take DUCC to task over it. I mean, they wouldn't get anything out of it but they might chance their arm.

I wouldn't, if I fell, it would be my own fault but there a number of people who are not as normal as you or I.

And also, like I said, it is so unlikely, it probably was not worth mentioning it.

Sunsets On Tuesday · 18-02-2019 5:19pm

CramCycle wrote: »

You may be angry, and it is undoubtedly in most scenarios a non issue but the truth of the matter is the clubs name is attached, it is an event, and if someone hurt themselves taking part in it, there is a limited but nonetheless potential risk they would point the finger at the organiser. Realistically, this will never happen but once you put the clubs name to it, you have to be wary that there are a number of legal scumbags that fester in modern society who'd be willing to sue Coillte for falling on a wooden path for 60k for a sprained ankle, you can be sure there is a small but nonetheless real risk some prick would take DUCC to task over it. I mean, they wouldn't get anything out of it but they might chance their arm.

I wouldn't, if I fell, it would be my own fault but there a number of people who are not as normal as you or I.

And also, like I said, it is so unlikely, it probably was not worth mentioning it.

I think you have a good point - unfortunately the way things are, if the club does attach it's name to an event, even if it's explicitly informal and the like, then there's no stopping some parasite from trying to sue if they fall or whatever. As you said, if someone is willing to do it to the national parks service because they tripped on a wooden path, then the sky is the limit.
It's a sorry situation we live in, but I appreciate where you are coming from. As was said, it's highly unlikely that such a thing would occur, but you can never be too certain. That wouldn't stop me from running events, just make me more careful about the organisation and who it's open to.

CramCycle · 18-02-2019 5:23pm

Sunsets On Tuesday wrote: »

I think you have a good point - unfortunately the way things are, if the club does attach it's name to an event, even if it's explicitly informal and the like, then there's no stopping some parasite from trying to sue if they fall or whatever. As you said, if someone is willing to do it to the national parks service because they tripped on a wooden path, then the sky is the limit.
It's a sorry situation we live in, but I appreciate where you are coming from. As was said, it's highly unlikely that such a thing would occur, but you can never be too certain. That wouldn't stop me from running events, just make me more careful about the organisation and who it's open to.

Its a sad day, all Craic must be preplanned and insured.
On the same note, if you put it as an intro spin, tell everyone they have to wear helmets, then your CI cover would be fine, just have to take names. This is great because if you don't take names then they were not part of the spin and therefore on their own if they mess up.

Are ye thinking of setting up the college league again, that was good craic.

magicbastarder · 18-02-2019 5:24pm

route66 wrote: »

If you meet your friends for a few pints - something that could be described as an "informal, just-for-fun event." - would you look for compo if you drank too much and tripped over?

the situation you describe is one where insurance simply doesn't enter into it (unless you can draw on your own private health insurance).

the event here would be an organised event (putting a call out on social media would push it into the 'organised event' category, especially since it was mentioned as being organised by a cycling club), and other posters here have talked about knowing that coillte monitor social media for potential issues.
if a walker was injured, you can be guaranteed that if the walker went after coillte for damages, coillte would either go after the club to recoup the damages, or just point the walker at the club and tell them to (pun intended) knock themselves out.

i know of a case not too dissimilar from this at all where this has happened.

Fighting Tao · 18-02-2019 5:36pm

Anyway...who is going to join DUCC to help the club grow??

CramCycle · 18-02-2019 5:46pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Anyway...who is going to join DUCC to help the club grow??

Goldsprints in the Pav, mandatory joining fee to compete, slab of Bavaria for the winner, job done.

Fighting Tao · 18-02-2019 5:48pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Goldsprints in the Pav, mandatory joining fee to compete, slab of Bavaria for the winner, job done.

I'm sure Sunsets On Tuesday will sign you up as a member for volunteering to sponsor the prize! :pac:

route66 · 18-02-2019 6:02pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

the situation you describe is one where insurance simply doesn't enter into it (unless you can draw on your own private health insurance).

the event here would be an organised event (putting a call out on social media would push it into the 'organised event' category, especially since it was mentioned as being organised by a cycling club), and other posters here have talked about knowing that coillte monitor social media for potential issues.
if a walker was injured, you can be guaranteed that if the walker went after coillte for damages, coillte would either go after the club to recoup the damages, or just point the walker at the club and tell them to (pun intended) knock themselves out.

i know of a case not too dissimilar from this at all where this has happened.

Just as well then - and let the record state - that there is no formal, or organised event taking place.

Steve SilverMint · 19-02-2019 1:17am

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Don’t forget the podium and bubbly.

It has gotten ridiculous!

What about the podium girls???

Peter T · 19-02-2019 10:21am

Its "podium people" now

CramCycle · 19-02-2019 10:28am

route66 wrote: »

Just as well then - and let the record state - that there is no formal, or organised event taking place.

There is a formal Friday night Fixed gear climb, online entries only. No entries on the line. Winner get there money back. if your interested, drop me a PM and I will send you my Western Union details :pac:

Informal Hill Climb TT - Ticknock Sunday 24 February

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