Tour de France 2020 | Stage 20 ITT (Lure - La Planche des Belles Filles, 36.2km)

G1032 · 20-09-2020 9:53am

monkeybutter wrote: »

Oh yeah only 1 minute and 21 ahead of the field on a time trial, happens all the time sure

Dead easy

:rolleyes:

So a couple of things here:

Cadence. Looking specifically at 3 riders. Pogacar, Dumoulin and Roglic
Pogacar seemed to go up the climb with the perfect cadence. Roglic was pedalling at way too high a cadence. He just wasn't putting out enough power. And Dumoulin seemed to be grinding a bit up the climb. But Dumoulin did the climb on his TT bike.. It's possible they got the gearing wrong and if he had gone a gear lower it might have been too low. He would have had big gaps in the cassette compared to what Pogacar would have had on his cassette on the climb. Pog would have had something like a 16 or 17 to 28. Dumoulin had to spread the 11 cogs from 11 to 28.

Also Dumoulin would be reasonably expected to ride a better TT than Richie Porte, which he didn't do. Pogacar would be reasonably expected to ride a better TT than Porte, which he did. Dumoulin didn't ride as good a TT as I think he or his team would have expected.

The steepness of the gradient up the climb would also exaggerated any weakness/fatigue etc and it's easy lose time quickly on a gradient like that.

I just enjoyed it for what it was. An epic stage in a fantastic tour that had us on the edge of our seats.

Just my tuppence.

eeeee · 20-09-2020 10:03am

Cadence is a very personal thing, there is no such thing add an optimum cadence on a climb, only an optimum cadence for each individual person. Some are grinders, some are spinners, some neither.

I imagine Tom D had his cassette changed to reflect the climb? At that level in that team I'd be sure of it.

Definitely no where to hide on a climb that steep if you're fcuked.

Girly Gal · 20-09-2020 10:29am

Roglic and Jumbo Visma probably expected Pogacar to tire enough going up the climb that they would at least hold the gap enough to stay in yellow or possibly even gain time. The fact that Pogacar also did the fastest climb stunned everyone.
I think Roglic was also psychologically affected by this as he knew on the climb the Jersey was slipping away from him and he just hadn't the power in his legs to respond, he possibly knew this before the climb started as even the bike change was poor and he looked fatigued.
A great way for Pogacar to win the tour, but, an awful way for Roglic to lose it, he'll probably regret not attacking more in the last week when he looked the strongest, but, seemed to be content with holding the gap, we'll never know.
I always felt looking at the final climb on the ITT there was the possibility of losing alot of time on it.

Inquitus · 20-09-2020 10:31am

Girly Gal wrote: »

Roglic and Jumbo Visma probably expected Pogacar to tire enough going up the climb that they would at least hold the gap enough to stay in yellow or possibly even gain time. The fact that Pogacar also did the fastest climb stunned everyone.
I think Roglic was also psychologically affected by this as he knew on the climb the Jersey was slipping away from him and he just hadn't the power in his legs to respond, he possibly knew this before the climb started as even the bike change was poor and he looked fatigued.
A great way for Pogacar to win the tour, but, an awful way for Roglic to lose it, he'll probably regret not attacking more in the last week when he looked the strongest, but, seemed to be content with holding the gap, we'll never know, but, always felt looking at the final climb on the ITT there was the possibility of losing alot of time on it.

He was gifted 1min24secs in the Echelons as well, and slowly let it ebb away. IMHO JV played it too defensive.

Girly Gal · 20-09-2020 10:53am

Inquitus wrote: »

He was gifted 1min24secs in the Echelons as well, and slowly let it ebb away. IMHO JV played it too defensive.

Agree he was gifted that time, but, that's part of racing and making the right decisions according to race conditions. Pogacar losing that time actually made this race better as it forced him to attack to gain the time, also probably resulted in Roglic and Jumbo Visma just defending the gap rather than attacking the race.

If Pogacar hadn't lost that time Roglic would have been forced to attack more which might have worked out better for him as he had the strongest team to help set him up. As it was they were content to hold the gap and were confident that Roglic would do enough in the ITT to hold onto yellow, they didn't count on Pogacar doing one of the best ITT ever.
Overall the best rider has won the race, he did it more or less single handedly against Jumbo Visma, he kinda used JV to his benefit.

Brian? · 20-09-2020 11:17am

Inquitus wrote: »

He was gifted 1min24secs in the Echelons as well, and slowly let it ebb away. IMHO JV played it too defensive.

I 100% agree. There were days where Roglic looked like he was a training spin. If he’d attacked he would have put more time into Pogacar, it was way too defensive.

Girly Gal · 20-09-2020 11:33am

It's good for the Tour that an individual triumphed over a strong team. Even though JV were in control for most of the race, it was still a much better and exciting race than most recent years, especially the Team Sky years where they were utterly dominant and stages followed a predictable pattern with little excitement.

Dodge · 20-09-2020 11:38am

Girly Gal wrote: »

It's good for the Tour that an individual triumphed over a strong team. Even though JV were in control for most of the race, it was still a much better and exciting race than most recent years, especially the Team Sky years where they were utterly dominant and stages followed a predictable pattern with little excitement.

A lot of that was down to the route. The lack of mountain top finishes meant the likes of JVT couldnt just ride tempo and allow the GC riders to race for only the last 5k

It allowed lots of little sub plots and individual battles happen each day. Even the lack of pure sprints helped. The route just allowed so much to happen each day. My favourite tour in years and years

Girly Gal · 20-09-2020 11:52am

Dodge wrote: »

A lot of that was down to the route. The lack of mountain top finishes meant the likes of JVT couldnt just ride tempo and allow the GC riders to race for only the last 5k

It allowed lots of little sub plots and individual battles happen each day. Even the lack of pure sprints helped. The route just allowed so much to happen each day. My favourite tour in years and years

Definitely one of the best in years, but, without Pogacar, Roglic would have free wheeled to victory. Last year's race was fairly good too, pity the last weekend was spoilt by the mud slides which really was anti climatic. Bennett ending Sagan's Green Jersey dominance also added to the race, Sunweb tactics for their stage wins also added excitement to the race. Overall it's definitely been the best Tour in years

Brian? · 20-09-2020 12:07pm

I feel like I was watching a different race to most people here. It was a poxy Tour up to yesterday. But I rarely find the Tour very exciting.

ratracer · 20-09-2020 1:05pm

Brian? wrote: »

I feel like I was watching a different race to most people here. It was a poxy Tour up to yesterday. But I rarely find the Tour very exciting.

The yellow jersey comp was dull as dishwater, and JV were caught out by their own thinking of just rolling it over the line. But as mentioned above, the sub plots of most stages were great. The green jersey fight, the early sprint stages where Sam just couldn’t beat Caleb Ewan, and some of the breaks, not least Hirschi’s long break getting reeled in just before the finish, only for him to really contest the sprint were all great moments of this years Tour

20-09-2020 1:14pm

Yeah Hirschi getting caught by the GC men tucking in and tightening the shoes was something I won't forget in a hurry.

20-09-2020 2:12pm

Something I didn't notice yesterday or see get picked up on coverage was that Pogacar had no power meter or computer on the road bike for the climb.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pogacar-rode-without-power-meter-or-computer-for-la-planche-des-belles-filles/

Raoul Duke · 20-09-2020 5:35pm

Anyone know the times for just the Planche des Belles Filles part yesterday? I can't find them anywhere.
Interested in how far back Carapaz was.

MPFGLB · 20-09-2020 5:39pm

Raoul Duke wrote: »

Anyone know the times for just the Planche des Belles Filles part yesterday? I can't find them anywhere.
Interested in how far back Carapaz was.

https://twitter.com/velofacts/status/1307367106695041024?s=20

breezy1985 · 20-09-2020 6:44pm

Brian? wrote: »

I 100% agree. There were days where Roglic looked like he was a training spin. If he’d attacked he would have put more time into Pogacar, it was way too defensive.

I think many thought the job was done when Bernal cracked

Raoul Duke · 20-09-2020 7:32pm

MPFGLB wrote: »

https://twitter.com/velofacts/status/1307367106695041024?s=20

Absolutely crazy that Porte went up it 1 minute quicker than Roglic. After getting dropped by Roglic every time he made the effort previously.
Leads me to think that Pogacar getting out faster early on screwed with his mind and completely upset his rhythm. I bet he'd have gone quicker if the Tour was already won and he was just chasing the stage.

JimmyChew · 20-09-2020 8:30pm

Raoul Duke wrote: »

Absolutely crazy that Porte went up it 1 minute quicker than Roglic. After getting dropped by Roglic every time he made the effort previously.
Leads me to think that Pogacar getting out faster early on screwed with his mind and completely upset his rhythm. I bet he'd have gone quicker if the Tour was already won and he was just chasing the stage.

The phycological affect at that level must be huge. Massive investment, huge team and millions watching. You see them swaggering around but at the end of the day they are young men going into battle with huge weight on their shoulders.

Brian? · 20-09-2020 9:57pm

Raoul Duke wrote: »

Absolutely crazy that Porte went up it 1 minute quicker than Roglic. After getting dropped by Roglic every time he made the effort previously.
Leads me to think that Pogacar getting out faster early on screwed with his mind and completely upset his rhythm. I bet he'd have gone quicker if the Tour was already won and he was just chasing the stage.

Roglic had a serious off day. Look at the way he was wearing his helmet at the end. He was done for.

I can’t believe how far Wout was on the list above. The man is a machine.

Girly Gal · 20-09-2020 10:14pm

JimmyChew wrote: »

The phycological affect at that level must be huge. Massive investment, huge team and millions watching. You see them swaggering around but at the end of the day they are young men going into battle with huge weight on their shoulders.

That's probably the biggest reason Roglic faded yesterday, he probably should have went out hard early on and told his team that he didn't want to know how Pogacar was getting on, Roglic looked like a man that felt he was being hunted down yesterday (which he was), it probably didn't help having this confirmed by his team.
Pogacar had nothing to lose yesterday and everything to gain, it's interesting too that he rode the climb without power meter and computer and also said he couldn't hear the radio due to the crowd, it was all instinct and probably freed him up too, the stage was over before he realised how well he had done.
Roglic was the opposite all the info he was getting was negative (Pogacar gaining time, power output down, etc.), this would definitely have affected him psychologically and reduced his performance further, especially up the climb. I can only imagine how he felt in the last few Kms knowing the race was slipping through his fingers and not being able to respond.

Macy0161 · 21-09-2020 9:34am

I'm with Laurent Fignon's take, that you only know how the Tour was won and loss looking back on it. TJV were obviously going conservative, given Rog's previous 3rd week failings. On reflection, maybe he should've gone for time in the first week when he was in form. But that approach didn't work for Yates in the Giro a couple of years ago.

Now, it looks like a big mistake for Dumoulin to work for Rog and take him out of the GC, but really, would they still have seen Pog as enough of threat to send Tom up the road and force him and others to chase?

Brian? wrote: »

I feel like I was watching a different race to most people here. It was a poxy Tour up to yesterday. But I rarely find the Tour very exciting.

The GC battle was fairly mundane, except maybe the cross winds, but I thought it was one of the best ones I remember!

Some great stages, the green jersey battle which made for some hard stages, Sunweb's all out attack. Even lower down the GC, over the gravel with Porte puncturing. There was maybe a couple of the usual break of the day/ sprint stages. The only genuinely boring stage was that one that the peloton took the day off and rolled around. Very few stages with nothing interesting imo.

breezy1985 · 21-09-2020 9:58am

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'm with Laurent Fignon's take, that you only know how the Tour was won and loss looking back on it. TJV were obviously going conservative, given Rog's previous 3rd week failings. On reflection, maybe he should've gone for time in the first week when he was in form. But that approach didn't work for Yates in the Giro a couple of years ago.

Now, it looks like a big mistake for Dumoulin to work for Rog and take him out of the GC, but really, would they still have seen Pog as enough of threat to send Tom up the road and force him and others to chase?

The GC battle was fairly mundane, except maybe the cross winds, but I thought it was one of the best ones I remember!

Some great stages, the green jersey battle which made for some hard stages, Sunweb's all out attack. Even lower down the GC, over the gravel with Porte puncturing. There was maybe a couple of the usual break of the day/ sprint stages. The only genuinely boring stage was that one that the peloton took the day off and rolled around. Very few stages with nothing interesting imo.

It was the side shows that made this tour interesting. Really high number of 1st time stage winners and young stage winners and the jerseys winners were both 1st time winners as well. Also I would shed no tears watching Ineos fail.

I found the GC boring because it lacked the romantic no hope french charge of recent years and once Ineos cracked and all my favourites started to drop out I didn't really care who won as only towards the end did I get to know Pog & Rog and the morning of S20 was the first time I was sure I wanted Pog to win

Tour de France 2020 | Stage 20 ITT (Lure - La Planche des Belles Filles, 36.2km)

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