Heart Rate Training - beginners guide

glasso wrote: »

my personal 3 tips for starting on this would be

1. avoid any hills whatsoever for the first few months if possible as it will be very frustrating / hill walk

2. leave your ego at the door on the way out - you will have to go slower than you are used to and stop and walk at times to get your HR down

3. don't go too high above your zone 2 max HR / 70% HR (with whatever formula you use Karvonen or other) for longer than 30 seconds or you may struggle to get it back under control

Ego is a big thing.

Yes people can run faster and will get through the session without much problem but that's not idea with HR training.

Also if running and yapping away your hr will go up a few beats as you talk away and without alerts set you will be into zone 3 without knowing it. Lucky for me a person who I would run with when permissible as we live 10kms apart does his easy runs at same HR level as me and we would be around the same pace for that HR.

HR is great for easy and threshold runs. Easy to turn a threshold run in to a to hard session.

ariana` wrote: »

That's interesting that yours were close to matching. I'm fairly sure i've set them correctly although now i am doubting myself, my math isn't too bad normally and I've double checked both with online calculators! My RHR could be out a couple of beats as it's the only HR metric which is measured solely with the watch - i use the chest strap running. If i was going to train solely by HR i'd repeat the 80/20 LTHR bench mark test. For now it's not an issue as the plan i'm following is based on pace ranges. However, I'd still like the reassuring that HR is the right zone for those important easy runs :cool:

Don’t think you need to factor resting HR at all into 80/20 zones as they are based on % of LTHR. Why don’t you throw up the numbers and we can check your maths!

ariana` wrote: »

That's interesting that yours were close to matching. I'm fairly sure i've set them correctly although now i am doubting myself, my math isn't too bad normally and I've double checked both with online calculators! My RHR could be out a couple of beats as it's the only HR metric which is measured solely with the watch - i use the chest strap running. If i was going to train solely by HR i'd repeat the 80/20 LTHR bench mark test. For now it's not an issue as the plan i'm following is based on pace ranges. However, I'd still like the reassuring that HR is the right zone for those important easy runs :cool:

Murph_D wrote: »

Don’t think you need to factor resting HR at all into 80/20 zones as they are based on % of LTHR. Why don’t you throw up the numbers and we can check your maths!

I mentioned RHR in relation to the Karvonean calculation. I figured out since that my LTHR must be wrong as it's currently 94% of my Max (Shotgun's post above may have helped highlight the discrepancy) Strange as the lab and field test were within 1bpm of each other. I'll repeat the bench mark test sometime when i have a session planned that isn't too dissimilar.

Murph_D wrote: »

I reckon my LT is around 89-90% of max HR. Sounds like your numbers are off somewhere alright. Maybe it’s your max that’s higher than you think?

Interesting topic. Im basing my LT off a recent TT as outlined in 80/20. When I check its about 91/ 92% of max heart rate.

pansophelia wrote: »

I've been thinking about trying HR training for a while and have found this thread invaluable. I've been running for a few years but have never managed to fully complete a training cycle, mostly because I get injured/burnt out, and end up dropping mileage. I thought my easy pace was truly easy - we're talking 11 minute miles - but have since realised that almost all my 'slow' runs were probably smack bang in the middle of zone 3, and I never really ran at an easy pace. I was also finding it harder and harder to achieve fast paces in 5ks, that would have been manageable a couple of years ago.
So I've been experimenting for the past few weeks, have bought the 80/20 book, and am starting the Level 3 half marathon plan today. I set up the HR zones using a couple of different methods (Kavroenen among others), mostly using 187 as my max HR (have seen this a few times in races and hard sessions), so I've set up my zones based on this.
I've run every day for the past three weeks using HR training, between 35 and 40 miles a week, and feeling good. I've realised that I now feel completely different to how I finishing an easy run before. The hard stuff is still hard, but I'm recovering quicker. My zone 2 miles are generally between 12 and 13 minutes miles, which before would have horrified me, but because I'm feeling good and running more I don't mind as much. I'm trying to incorporate a lot of hills into my easy runs as I'm planning on trail running over the summer - this means I've to slow down further and sometimes walk, and that's fine too.
I'm exploring more random trails in the Phoenix Park as I'm not worried about paces. So far it's been working well.
I'm aware I'm still in the middle of novelty territory but looking forward to seeing how this goes. Thanks for all the great tips in here!

Heart Rate Training - 3 months in

I thought I’d do a general update to let people know how I’m getting on with HR training in case it was something that they were thinking of. A little bit of this is a repeat of what I said above!
TLDR I’m a convert.

I’d followed a pattern for years of starting plans and losing motivation/getting injured at different points. The last plan I followed to the letter was the Hal Higdon Half marathon plan when I first started running about 8 years ago! I rarely went a week without running, and would generally do between 3 and 5 runs a week with mileage anything from 10-35 depending on the time of year. Times over the past year or so I’d stalled. I’d started the Hanson’s HM plan at Christmas and was really enjoying it - but then got sick over Christmas, missed a week, and really struggled to get back. I seemed to be slowing and couldn’t seem to push through.

I’ve always known about keeping easy days easy - and overall thought I was, my easy paces were in the region of 11-11.30m minute miling, so I thought I HAD to be running easy.
I’d read a little on here about HR training, and liked the idea, so decided to give it a go. I dug out an old HR monitor, and started playing around with my HR in May - immediately realising that my HR on my ‘easy’ runs was way higher than it should be.

I set my HR zones based on a bit of messing, previous races, resting HR - and think they’re pretty accurate. Read most of Matt Fitzgerald’s book; picked a race (the lamented ECO Trail Race) and at the beginning of June, off I went. Mother of God though, I was crawling. The first couple of months I was stopping to walk. Easy miles (Zone 2) were 12.00-13.00 which really shocked me. Zone 1 were mostly walking. Progress was glacial and things seemed to get worse before they slowly slowly started to improve. I was probably about 8 weeks in before I started to see my paces slightly improve. I knew things were better though, cause I was running every day, without it feeling like a huge challenge. Throughout the plan I used, I averaged 35-45 miles a week. Really enjoyed the speedier stuff, and didn’t stress about not hitting the paces if I was hitting Zone 4/Zone 5 consistently as I knew I was still pushing myself as hard as I was able for on a particular day.

One of my main take aways is that low motivation is a symptom of slightly overdoing it. Now that I know what my runs are going to feel like, I’m not apprehensive going in, or wrecked coming out. I haven’t been injured (touch lots of wood), although I’ve been trying a little strength work and think that’s probably helped too. I’m now looking for a race to target that might even actually go ahead and going to try a plan to get me there - debating between Hanson’s and repeating the 80/20 plan - but will definitely be using heart rate training to monitor my training. Also considering just moving to trails for a few months, but tempted to see if I can build on my speed.

Just to mention, I’ve also changed my nutrition a bit - I’ve been following Renee McGregor on instagram, and have started eating more before and immediately after running, so maybe that’s been helping too.

I hadn’t run for a couple of days and did a 45 minute run this morning - Zone 2 was 10.30 - 10.50 minute miles.

Thanks to everyone on here - I haven’t interacted that much, but following other people’s logs has greatly helped me figure out what I should be doing!

Klopp wrote: »

I am looking for some advice. I based my current max HR on an average of 3 hard runs 5K distance ( 184 ).

I use a Garmin watch with Heart rate sensor and I can borrow a Garmin chest strap which would likely give me a more accurate reading if I can figure out a good way to test my max HR before I start Heart zone training.

Can anyone tell me a test you did or followed to gauge your max HR? I read different options varying from running flat out on a flat surface 3 x 3mins to jogging for 15mins & then 3 runs flat out up a hill but there was no mention about the distance or the elevation?

Max from 3x 5ks is probably not bad. Were you all out on them? You can get your max hr from a 30 minute run but you need to to go for it, stepping the effort up again and again until you cannot give more.

Start easy and build over the first 10 minutes to a pace you think you can hold for 20 mins or your 5k pace. At 15mins push on. You will need to mentally set in. At 20 mins push on again. You might be in pain, like you can only hold for another minute. Just keep holding that effort. If you get to 25min then push again. Don't worry if you start to slow down while giving it everything you have. The objective is to find your max heart rate. Ideally you will hit that max near enough the 30 mins.

Good thing about a test like this is that you will likely establish your max hr and your approx lactate threshold (the average of the last 20mins)

Duanington wrote: »

Question for the more experienced training-by-HR-folks.

I'm starting to spot a trend whereby I'll get much more return in terms of pace from the same HR in an evening session compared to a morning session.

I'm told that this is a bit of a "a thing" with some people - anyone else got this going on? If so, is there any way to compensate ?

Yeah I've noticed it myself. For me, the body just hasn't woken up fully so seems like I have to put in more effort to achieve the same pace. That being said I have noticed on easy long runs that my HR can be lower than usual early morning for same pace so it seems to affect me for sessions more than anything else.

I haven't come up with any smart way to compensate other than heading out later and making sure I'm better rested the night before a session (which isn't always easy). Getting some liquids into you first thing might also help.

shotgunmcos wrote: »

I think "beginners guide" could be removed from the thread title at this stage. It's a great overall HR training discussion IMO.

LOL, this is a good point. TBH I skimmed a good bit. I was directed here from my own thread and it started out quite good but it got pretty intense for a while.

So to bring it back down to earth here is a few simple questions as I am going to take the plunge and try the low HR training method. Zone 2 training. But rightly or wrongly I'm going to keep with my current plan, goal to complete 5k in 30 mins, 4 week left! After that, a week off, test my max HR properly and then a low HR Training plan.

When I kick this off, should every run be in zone 2?
Should I alternate and do some faster runs at all or is that a complete no no?
How far either time or distance should each session be?
Can you train at low HR too often? Surely not as I might not be doing much more than a brisk walk?
How many runs per week are needed? I hope to be back playing golf and might not have the opportunity to go out more than a couple of times a week. (I know it contradicts my previous question)
What about doing other workouts kinda like this on alternate days?

I would like to get to a stage where I can go out for an odd 3k/5k every so often at somewhere between 5-6mins per km without killing myself. I don't really plan on making running a long term hobby as such (as I'd rather be on the golf course ). I do expect to be at this for at least 12 weeks to see any benefit. When I get up to pace do I need to keep at it or can I just settle back in to running a couple of times a month at a 90% best effort kinda pace

Seve OB wrote: »

LOL, this is a good point. TBH I skimmed a good bit. I was directed here from my own thread and it started out quite good but it got pretty intense for a while.

So to bring it back down to earth here is a few simple questions as I am going to take the plunge and try the low HR training method. Zone 2 training. But rightly or wrongly I'm going to keep with my current plan, goal to complete 5k in 30 mins, 4 week left! After that, a week off, test my max HR properly and then a low HR Training plan.

When I kick this off, should every run be in zone 2?
Should I alternate and do some faster runs at all or is that a complete no no?
How far either time or distance should each session be?
Can you train at low HR too often? Surely not as I might not be doing much more than a brisk walk?
How many runs per week are needed? I hope to be back playing golf and might not have the opportunity to go out more than a couple of times a week. (I know it contradicts my previous question)
What about doing other workouts kinda like this on alternate days?

I would like to get to a stage where I can go out for an odd 3k/5k every so often at somewhere between 5-6mins per km without killing myself. I don't really plan on making running a long term hobby as such (as I'd rather be on the golf course ). I do expect to be at this for at least 12 weeks to see any benefit. When I get up to pace do I need to keep at it or can I just settle back in to running a couple of times a month at a 90% best effort kinda pace

Hi Steve, a lot of it depends on what you want to do. I know you say go for an odd 3k/5k every now and again - but how often do you mean? Heart Rate Training is an amazing way of getting some consistency and avoiding injury, and definitely improves fitness - but can be a more long term plan ( months to years). That said you'll probably learn a lot from trying it out.
As you can see from the thread, the Matt Fitzgerald book has been mentioned a few times and it's worth a look. It has a lot of HR training plans, 5k to the marathon, at three different levels, so you could pick one and crack on. They do include some faster running - but you do have to keep an eye.
I started HR training last May after running for a few years - I love running, but am really slow and have had problems with injury and consistency. I'd end up blowing up a few weeks into a plan and losing motivation. I've since realised that's probably cause I was pushing myself too hard. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have to slow down your slow runs from 11 to 12 to 13 minute smiling. Takes weeks to see improvements, but I've never run so consistently and have also stayed motivated.
I followed a couple of different plans from the book between June and December, and have just started a different plan, but trying to use some of the HR principles.
Best of luck.

ctlsleh wrote: »

Is there a pinned post on HR training, I’m 52 and 34mins is the best I can do for 5K, running/walking and would like to get sub 30mins......my max heart rate should be 169, I tend to be in zone 4 and 5 for most of the 5k......
Sorry for a stupid question, I was hoping to find somewhere to start on HR training, I actually find the breathing is what’s really holding me back rather than legs, I also spin cycle so have some fitness.

You sound exactly like me.
I’ve posted a thread, take a look.
I think you might find that your HR zones could be wrong

skyblue46 wrote: »

I assume all these places are closed as non essential at the moment?

I had it done last February 2020 before lockdown and then again in July when it was back open. The initial 12 week very steady aerobic running turned into nearly 20 weeks because of lockdowns.



But yeah I would have thought so...my guy is not due to open until some time in April (this is in England BTW)

Not sure how accurate this is ... but I did a field test ...

Ran 5k and pushed myself hard the last 500m on a hill.

My Max Heart rate (last 500m) was 197.

Is that completely inaccurate?!? (I have just turned 46)

glasso wrote: »

Would be pretty high for your age tbh

Are you using a chest strap for HR measurement?

Apple Watch - going all out up a pretty steep hill and really pushing myself.