Murph_D wrote: » I reckon my LT is around 89-90% of max HR. Sounds like your numbers are off somewhere alright. Maybe it’s your max that’s higher than you think?
pansophelia wrote: » I've been thinking about trying HR training for a while and have found this thread invaluable. I've been running for a few years but have never managed to fully complete a training cycle, mostly because I get injured/burnt out, and end up dropping mileage. I thought my easy pace was truly easy - we're talking 11 minute miles - but have since realised that almost all my 'slow' runs were probably smack bang in the middle of zone 3, and I never really ran at an easy pace. I was also finding it harder and harder to achieve fast paces in 5ks, that would have been manageable a couple of years ago. So I've been experimenting for the past few weeks, have bought the 80/20 book, and am starting the Level 3 half marathon plan today. I set up the HR zones using a couple of different methods (Kavroenen among others), mostly using 187 as my max HR (have seen this a few times in races and hard sessions), so I've set up my zones based on this. I've run every day for the past three weeks using HR training, between 35 and 40 miles a week, and feeling good. I've realised that I now feel completely different to how I finishing an easy run before. The hard stuff is still hard, but I'm recovering quicker. My zone 2 miles are generally between 12 and 13 minutes miles, which before would have horrified me, but because I'm feeling good and running more I don't mind as much. I'm trying to incorporate a lot of hills into my easy runs as I'm planning on trail running over the summer - this means I've to slow down further and sometimes walk, and that's fine too. I'm exploring more random trails in the Phoenix Park as I'm not worried about paces. So far it's been working well. I'm aware I'm still in the middle of novelty territory but looking forward to seeing how this goes. Thanks for all the great tips in here!
Klopp wrote: » I am looking for some advice. I based my current max HR on an average of 3 hard runs 5K distance ( 184 ). I use a Garmin watch with Heart rate sensor and I can borrow a Garmin chest strap which would likely give me a more accurate reading if I can figure out a good way to test my max HR before I start Heart zone training. Can anyone tell me a test you did or followed to gauge your max HR? I read different options varying from running flat out on a flat surface 3 x 3mins to jogging for 15mins & then 3 runs flat out up a hill but there was no mention about the distance or the elevation?
Klopp wrote: » I am looking for some advice. I based my current max HR on an average of 3 hard runs 5K distance ( 184 ).
shotgunmcos wrote: » Max from 3x 5ks is probably not bad. Were you all out on them? You can get your max hr from a 30 minute run but you need to to go for it, stepping the effort up again and again until you cannot give more. Start easy and build over the first 10 minutes to a pace you think you can hold for 20 mins or your 5k pace. At 15mins push on. You will need to mentally set in. At 20 mins push on again. You might be in pain, like you can only hold for another minute. Just keep holding that effort. If you get to 25min then push again. Don't worry if you start to slow down while giving it everything you have. The objective is to find your max heart rate. Ideally you will hit that max near enough the 30 mins. Good thing about a test like this is that you will likely establish your max hr and your approx lactate threshold (the average of the last 20mins)
Wottle wrote: » I'd suggest getting your own chest strap if training by heart rate, the wrist based is pants.
echancrure wrote: » I never used to bother much with heart rate (I have a Garmin Forerunner 235 and the heart rate seem pretty accurate and steady to me) but lately, I decided to do all my recovery runs with just the heart rate display and keeping it around the Easy to low Aerobic area (about 120 bpm for me). I must say I enjoy that switch because:
rom wrote: » So to see progression is important in HR training. It show that it is working or that you are not doing it right. I used to do the following test every few months. It was easy enough to do very comparable. Turn on autolap to 1 Mile 10 mins warmup Press lap 1M @ 140bpm 1M @ 150bpm 1M @ 160bpm 1M @ 170bpm 1M @ 180bpm 600m flat out Then you should get a table with avg pace and HR for each set. Note it and compare it to the next test.
ReeReeG wrote: » Hmm might try this as I feel I have been getting slower recently despite going by HR on most of my runs this year (I think).
Duanington wrote: » Question for the more experienced training-by-HR-folks. I'm starting to spot a trend whereby I'll get much more return in terms of pace from the same HR in an evening session compared to a morning session. I'm told that this is a bit of a "a thing" with some people - anyone else got this going on? If so, is there any way to compensate ?
Swashbuckler wrote: » Yeah I've noticed it myself. For me, the body just hasn't woken up fully so seems like I have to put in more effort to achieve the same pace. That being said I have noticed on easy long runs that my HR can be lower than usual early morning for same pace so it seems to affect me for sessions more than anything else. I haven't come up with any smart way to compensate other than heading out later and making sure I'm better rested the night before a session (which isn't always easy). Getting some liquids into you first thing might also help.
TFBubendorfer wrote: » I always noticed that but never worried much about it. I've read on several occasions that your body just isn't working at full capacity for the first few hours after sleep.
shotgunmcos wrote: » I think "beginners guide" could be removed from the thread title at this stage. It's a great overall HR training discussion IMO.
keith_d99 wrote: » Hi all! Great thread. Took up running last April and loving it .... but have injured myself twice in since starting! Obviously overdoing it Looking to give Heart Rate Training a try to prevent injuries more than anything else Also I would like to put some structure around my running ... rest days, recovery runs, long runs etc. Just did a 5K with in Zone 3 (150ish BPMs - 45 years of age). It felt too slow as most have experienced - but that's the whole point right? Can you point me in the direction of a good HR plan for a 10k? Or should I just get Matt Fitzgerald's book? Thanks!
Annie get your Run wrote: » Hey Keith, have you done a max HR test to gauge your Max hr? If not, you need to do that first, otherwise you don't know what the correct HR values are for the zones. Zone 3 is more steady/tempo pace, for easy runs you should be in zone 2, but again you need to know the right numbers for this. What sort of training have you done to date? How much running do you do weekly at the moment? The answer might drive the response re which plan to start.
Seve OB wrote: » LOL, this is a good point. TBH I skimmed a good bit. I was directed here from my own thread and it started out quite good but it got pretty intense for a while. So to bring it back down to earth here is a few simple questions as I am going to take the plunge and try the low HR training method. Zone 2 training. But rightly or wrongly I'm going to keep with my current plan, goal to complete 5k in 30 mins, 4 week left! After that, a week off, test my max HR properly and then a low HR Training plan. When I kick this off, should every run be in zone 2? Should I alternate and do some faster runs at all or is that a complete no no? How far either time or distance should each session be? Can you train at low HR too often? Surely not as I might not be doing much more than a brisk walk? How many runs per week are needed? I hope to be back playing golf and might not have the opportunity to go out more than a couple of times a week. (I know it contradicts my previous question) What about doing other workouts kinda like this on alternate days? I would like to get to a stage where I can go out for an odd 3k/5k every so often at somewhere between 5-6mins per km without killing myself. I don't really plan on making running a long term hobby as such (as I'd rather be on the golf course ). I do expect to be at this for at least 12 weeks to see any benefit. When I get up to pace do I need to keep at it or can I just settle back in to running a couple of times a month at a 90% best effort kinda pace
keith_d99 wrote: » Started with a Couch25k last May. Since August, I've been doing 5k 3-4 times a week ... building on pace really (not the best approach in hindsight) .. up to about 5k in 27 mins. I also went for longer distances at weekend. My problem has been injuries, some foot injury and recently a hip flexor injury. Looking back at my workouts ... my average BPMs would be up at 170 which would surely be Zone 4/5 for me. My motivation is to stay injury free and learn how to run properly
pansophelia wrote: » Hi Keith - yeah, I'd recommend Matt Fitzgerald's book. Parts of it are quite complicated but the plans are nicely divided into different levels and distances and are v achievable. You definitely need to make sure your HR zones are set up properly - there's a couple of suggestions about how to do this in the book or you could try an all out 5k TT. Slowing down is really hard, you'll probably end up walking some hills, but there are some faster sessions in the plans too. Between HR training and a little bit of strength work, I've had a long stretch injury free now and it's been great!
