Shane Ross considering letting drink drivers drive to work..

drunkmonkey · 03-03-2019 12:52pm #1

Tell me again why our drink drive laws aren't unfairly hurting rural Ireland due to a lack of any public transport if he's even considering this.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/minister-considering-vfi-proposal-to-allow-convicted-drink-drivers-to-drive-to-work-908328.html

I'm pretty sure this isn't a solution to the public transport problem.

lbc2019 · 03-03-2019 12:55pm

I live in rural Ireland no issue with the drink driving laws- it saves lives- be pro life!

Guy:Incognito · 03-03-2019 12:57pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Tell me again why our drink drive laws aren't unfairly hurting rural Ireland due to a lack of any public transport if he's even considering this.
.

The person that drinks and drives are solely responsible for being off the road.

If the only thing in your life is drinking then a lack of public transport is the least of your worries.

Youd swear Ireland was the only country with people living in rural areas.

Harry Palmr · 03-03-2019 1:00pm

Part time ban is ludicrous, anyone who had such a licence would need to be checked every day or be "tagged" so if they turn the key it's "matched" with the tag and the car refuses to start outside the designated times (actually that sounds like a good development until someone can hack it)

drunkmonkey · 03-03-2019 1:01pm

The problem is the penalties inflict disproportionate hardship on people outside cities. That fact it's even been proposed says there's a problem. I didn't propose it so no point going after me.

WoollyRedHat · 03-03-2019 1:04pm

Great idea they should introduce a credit based system, the more pints you drink when you're driving, the more free pints you get. Drink and drive after 5 pints, get your next one free.

For anyone thinking I'm being ridiculous, don't worry, they'll refer to breath anyalsyer results to make sure no one is cheating.

ETA: From the article, really? There is a measurable difference between testing over the limit on one occasion and being over the limit that results in a ban...

Atlantic Dawn · 03-03-2019 1:06pm

When you come back from a driving ban for drink driving you should have to put D plates on your car for 5 years so other motorists know you are a fool.

amcalester · 03-03-2019 1:07pm

I’ve a 200km round trip to get to work, do you know what I don’t do when I’ve work in the morning?

I don’t drink so much that I’d be over the limit in the morning.

dresden8 · 03-03-2019 1:11pm

Apt username op.

biko · 03-03-2019 1:17pm

Maybe it's just me but it seems a reasonable measure
Drinkdrivers aren't all raging alcoholics prowling the streets looking for kids to mow down.
This could allow some of them to keep their jobs.

The Government is considering allowing convicted drink-drivers to drive to work.
Officials have been asked to examine a system in operation in New Zealand.
In New Zealand, a person can apply for a limited licence that would allow them to drive at specific times for specific reasons.

Seth Brundle · 03-03-2019 1:17pm

I must admit that I can't help holding Shane Ross in high regard. Every time I think he has reached the maximum stupidity level he always manages to exceed it!

drunkmonkey · 03-03-2019 1:17pm

Uber is the solution to the public transport problem. It's not commercially viable to service rural areas any other way (when I say rural don't think of a house down an county road I'm also referring to towns with thousands of people with no transport services at night or in the morning). That decision is with the NTA and not the RSA. Ross is over both of them about time he grew a pair.
I'd have no issue with an uber ban in cities as they have transport options.

WoollyRedHat · 03-03-2019 1:17pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The problem is the penalties inflict disproportionate hardship on people outside cities. That fact it's even been proposed says there's a problem. I didn't propose it so no point going after me.

Why not advocate for better transport in these areas?

If you would be at least more specific the merits of your position could be argued.

amcalester · 03-03-2019 1:19pm

biko wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but it seems a reasonable measure
Drinkdrivers aren't all raging alcoholics prowling the streets looking for kids to mow down.
This could allow some of them to keep their jobs.

Sure the threat of losing ones job is one of the main deterrents, remove that and you’ll have people willing to take the risk.

Ah, sure I’ll still be able to get to work.

Seth Brundle · 03-03-2019 1:19pm

biko wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but it seems a reasonable measure
Drinkdrivers aren't all raging alcoholics prowling the streets looking for kids to mow down.
This could allow some of them to keep their jobs.

Wouldn't it be easier for them to not drink?
Are the road safety laws there for everyone or just some people? What's the point in having a road safety policy if you turn around and make exceptions for those you've been saying for years were a danger?

The_Honeybadger · 03-03-2019 1:20pm

Insurance industry will be licking their lips if this comes in can you imagine the premiums they’ll charge these people

dresden8 · 03-03-2019 1:23pm

A random thought, what if they were caught drink driving on the way to work? Fine and a ban but then told to carry on?

vectra · 03-03-2019 1:25pm

Another thought.
Isn't drink driving a dangerous act?
Therefore, Should the same idea be applied to drivers that got a driving ban for dangerous driving?

dresden8 · 03-03-2019 1:25pm

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Insurance industry will be licking their lips if this comes in can you imagine the premiums they’ll charge these people

But then the insurance industry will be discriminating against rural people.

There's no end to this bogger bull****.

brightspark · 03-03-2019 1:31pm

Hopefully the insurance companies will make it so expensive that if effectively keeps them off the road anyway.

V8 Interceptor · 03-03-2019 1:31pm

Its his ludicrous speeding laws he's bringing in that worries me.

strandsman · 03-03-2019 1:33pm

biko wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but it seems a reasonable measure
Drinkdrivers aren't all raging alcoholics prowling the streets looking for kids to mow down.
This could allow some of them to keep their jobs.

i agree. a driving ban doesn't impact on a person as hard when they get a luas or bus to work every day. In fact i'd say they are more inclined to drink drive knowing a ban won't be a big issue. People in the rural areas know full well the impact it would have so are less inclined to drink drive . A person living and working in the city or near it won't loose their jobs but a person living in the country possibly will if they have no other means to get to work

brightspark · 03-03-2019 1:34pm

dresden8 wrote:

But then the insurance industry will be discriminating against rural people.

Living in a rural area wouldn't be one of the nine grounds that you can claim discrimination.

drunkmonkey · 03-03-2019 1:34pm

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Double negative there old boy.

Just checking how many posters could read before they started foaming at the mouth with rage.

Del2005 · 03-03-2019 1:34pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The problem is the penalties inflict disproportionate hardship on people outside cities. That fact it's even been proposed says there's a problem. I didn't propose it so no point going after me.

If you know that something is going to have a major impact on your life why would you risk it? You chose to live in an area that can't be serviced by public transport you should make sure that you don't risk your only method of transport.

It's a bit like when they say that the old lad is just going to the pub for a few pints and for some company and sure the few pints will have no effect. So why bother with the alcohol? Just drink a tea/coffee/soft drink/cordial then and you can still have the company and your licence.

V8 Interceptor · 03-03-2019 1:35pm

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

There is a measurable difference between testing over the limit on one occasion and being over the limit that results in a ban.

I don't get it

dresden8 · 03-03-2019 1:35pm

brightspark wrote: »

Living in a rural area wouldn't be one of the nine grounds that you can claim discrimination.

Wont stop them moaning.

WoollyRedHat · 03-03-2019 1:36pm

dresden8 wrote: »

But then the insurance industry will be discriminating against rural people.

There's no end to this bogger bull****.

I genuinely think this is the route cause of the problem. Ministers of the government facilitate this them vs US argument. which is used as a reference for an apparent attack on the rural population, when newsflash, it is also an inconvenience for city people.

paw patrol · 03-03-2019 1:38pm

i think its reasonable.

what is the point in making somebody unemployed due to drink driving and maybe having a family lose their home? more kids on the homeless list?
likewise some small businesses may rely on a driver/owner if they can't drive that business could fold maybe costing an innocent person their job.
or if somebody was a carer to an ill person - is it fair that person loses their transport to hospital?
there are some reasonable examples...

people are posting as if the proposal is to give every driver this partial licence when the investigation at present if that people can apply for one. They would still need to meet some criteria.

If it passes I'd hope it would be strictly enforced and perhaps only available to first time or minor offenders.

martyc5674 · 03-03-2019 1:38pm

strandsman wrote: »

People in the rural areas know full well the impact it would have so are less inclined to drink drive .

And now they’ll be more inclined to drink drive.....

Guy:Incognito · 03-03-2019 1:38pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The problem is the penalties inflict disproportionate hardship on people outside cities. That fact it's even been proposed says there's a problem. I didn't propose it so no point going after me.

A taxi driver is disproportionately affected by a ban compared to a call centre worker living next door to their job. The answer isnt to let them drive anyway.

If a drink driving ban will badly affect you, dont drink drive.

WoollyRedHat · 03-03-2019 1:39pm

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

I don't get it

A person might have had half a pint.. That pushes you over the limit but that isn't going to translate into an automatic driving ban, at least in the first incidence.

Discodog · 03-03-2019 1:41pm

biko wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but it seems a reasonable measure
Drinkdrivers aren't all raging alcoholics prowling the streets looking for kids to mow down.
This could allow some of them to keep their jobs.

The problem is that a ban doesn't just punish the driver. It can affect his family & his home.

I think the recent changes were counter productive. We should focus on those who flaunt the law & have 6 pints, not the person who is accidentally just over the limit.

If someone was just above the limit I would impose a fine & points. If someone was twice the limit I would ban them for three years.

WoollyRedHat · 03-03-2019 1:41pm

paw patrol wrote: »

i think its reasonable.

what is the point in making somebody unemployed due to drink driving and maybe having a family lose their home? more kids on the homeless list?
likewise some small businesses may rely on a driver/owner if they can't drive that business could fold maybe costing an innocent person their job.
or if somebody was a carer to an ill person - is it fair that person loses their transport to hospital?
there are some reasonable examples...

people are posting as if the proposal is to give every driver this partial licence when the investigation at present if that people can apply for one. They would still need to meet some criteria.

If it passes I'd hope it would be strictly enforced and perhaps only available to first time or minor offenders.

As a matter of interest what would be the criteria.. In my view for people hat have tested 5 times over the limit deserve a lifetime ban. Don't think that's unreasonable.

drunkmonkey · 03-03-2019 1:42pm

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I genuinely think this is the route cause of the problem. Ministers of the government facilitate this them vs US argument. which is used as a reference for an apparent attack on the rural population, when newsflash, it is also an inconvenience for city people.

Balls it is, most of the population live in Dublin, Ross is well able to have a few pints and get to work. If he lost his licence in the morning wouldn't knock a funk out of him.

Guy:Incognito · 03-03-2019 1:42pm

paw patrol wrote: »

i think its reasonable.

what is the point in making somebody unemployed due to drink driving and maybe having a family lose their home? more kids on the homeless list?
likewise some small businesses may rely on a driver/owner if they can't drive that business could fold maybe costing an innocent person their job.
or if somebody was a carer to an ill person - is it fair that person loses their transport to hospital?
there are some reasonable examples...

people are posting as if the proposal is to give every driver this partial licence when the investigation at present if that people can apply for one. They would still need to meet some criteria.

If it passes I'd hope it would be strictly enforced and perhaps only available to first time or minor offenders.

What other laws shouldnt apply to certain people based on the possibility of them losing their jobs?

Isnt it up to the person to make sure they dont break the law and cause themselves hardship?

Guy:Incognito · 03-03-2019 1:44pm

Discodog wrote: »

I think the recent changes were counter productive. We should focus on those who flaunt the law & have 6 pints, not the person who is accidentally just over the limit.

.

So if you can avoid detection long enough to sober up enough to be just over the limit, score.

WoollyRedHat · 03-03-2019 1:47pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Balls it is, most of the population live in Dublin, Ross is well able to have a few pints and get to work. If he lost his licence in the morning wouldn't knock a funk out of him.

I'm talking about the strict limits. If people want to have a drink they can't drive afterwards, doesn't matter where you are from.

Bannasidhe · 03-03-2019 1:49pm

Discodog wrote: »

The problem is that a ban doesn't just punish the driver. It can affect his family & his home.

I think the recent changes were counter productive. We should focus on those who flaunt the law & have 6 pints, not the person who is accidentally just over the limit.

If someone was just above the limit I would impose a fine & points. If someone was twice the limit I would ban them for three years.

Perhaps the driver should consider the effect on their family and home and not drive while over the limit.
Priorities and all that.

Mad idea I know.

bazz26 · 03-03-2019 1:50pm

Proposal from the Vintner's Federation of Ireland, says it all really. They are the alcohol equivalent of the S.I.M.I. imo.

Reality is they don't give a toss about drink driving laws, they are only interested in dealing with the high number of public houses that have closed in recent times especially outside of towns and cities. They are focusing on one aspect only - people staying at home because they have no public transport. Same goes with them campaigning for minimum alcohol pricing. Many people also stay at home to drink there because it's cheaper than going to the pub. Instead of focusing on reducing the price of drink in their public houses to encourage people back, they instead lobby to remove the cheaper competition from supermarket in the name of binge drinking. And that suits the Government too as it means more tax revenue.

dresden8 · 03-03-2019 1:50pm

martyc5674 wrote: »

And now they’ll be more inclined to drink drive.....

Well, it is a proposal from the Vintners Federation of Ireland?

I wonder what their interest is in letting people drink drive?

matrim · 03-03-2019 1:53pm

Why only drink driving? What happens if they lose their license because they were speeding or on their phone or any of the other reasons people get points?

Seth Brundle · 03-03-2019 1:55pm

matrim wrote: »

Why only drink driving? What happens if they lose their license because they were speeding or on their phone or any of the other reasons people get points?

It shouldn't be just car related.
If I murdered someone, it shouldn't prevent me from doing my job!

drunkmonkey · 03-03-2019 1:58pm

Good point, the chap driving to work after a few beers the night before loses his wife, house, job. The pedo gets to keep driving from town to town.

WoollyRedHat · 03-03-2019 2:00pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

It shouldn't be just car related.
If I murdered someone, it shouldn't prevent me from doing my job!

Wait what. If the car was the reason itkilled someone it absolutely should. If someone killed another person because of improper use of a fire arm, do you think you should be able to retain your licence after.?

Guy:Incognito · 03-03-2019 2:01pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

It shouldn't be just car related.
If I murdered someone, it shouldn't prevent me from doing my job!

If anything, we're not protecting people enough. There should be a law that bans your job from sacking you if you're convicted of murder.

doolox · 03-03-2019 2:07pm

Bad planning laws and a desire to live in remote areas by people with no legitimate reason to live in remote rural areas.

In the UK you had to have a job or reason to live in a country area, otherwise you live in an estate near public transport etc.

Only farmers, forestry workers, park rangers and the likes could get planning permission to build one-off housing in remote rural areas.

My cousins live about 2 miles from a bus route in a midland town. I would expect them to walk to that bus route if they were nabbed and banned from driving under the influence.

I am currently undergoing a drink cessation exercise under doctors supervision because I am finding it difficult to keep my drinking levels below the WHO standards of 21 units per week. I am fearful of liver damage in the future. I have been stopped and bagged twice with no repercussions but it could have been different. An ill considered pint could have ruined me.

The trouble with modern Ireland is that we have close to 2 million cars on our roads. They are much more powerful and faster than in the recent past. In my younger days there were less than 1 million cars on the roads, much slower and simpler times. Modern drivers rightfully expect a higher level of driving behaviour than in the past, the driving public tolerated and accommodated erratic and dysfunctional driving in a bizarrely humorous and lighthearted way, which would be alien to today's driving public.

What we need to do in future is to arrange housing near peoples work places and eliminate one-off rural housing in jobless villages and hamlets, keeping such houses for farmers and rural workers only. Then there will be no hardship excuse for exempting people from disqualification laws and penalties.

Public transport needs to be made more reliable and available in rural areas but people buying houses in such areas with an active social drinking lifestyle should think twice about such locations. Walking distance to a decent pub on a well lit street is becoming an important feature in a house, often overlooked in these virtue signalling times.

drunkmonkey · 03-03-2019 2:10pm

Or Uber, just leaglise it, feck the taxi drivers they cherry pick their hours during the week in the country.

swarlb · 03-03-2019 2:28pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Tell me again why our drink drive laws aren't unfairly hurting rural Ireland due to a lack of any public transport if he's even considering this.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/minister-considering-vfi-proposal-to-allow-convicted-drink-drivers-to-drive-to-work-908328.html

I'm pretty sure this isn't a solution to the public transport problem.

Has anyone here actually read the above link
...
No where in this article does it say Shane Ross is considering letting drink drivers drive to work...

"According to the paper, Transport Minister Shane Ross would consider any such proposal from the Vintner's Federation of Ireland."

VeryTerry · 03-03-2019 2:30pm

Why don't we fit breathalyzers in the cars of convicted lower end drink drivers? It works well in Australia.

drunkmonkey · 03-03-2019 2:31pm

swarlb wrote: »

Has anyone here actually read the above link
...
No where in this article does it say Shane Ross is considering letting drink drivers drive to work...

"According to the paper, Transport Minister Shane Ross would consider any such proposal from the Vintner's Federation of Ireland."

I read he would consider any proposal as he would consider the proposal. He hasn't said no.

Shane Ross considering letting drink drivers drive to work..

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