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Part worn tyres

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24

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    #32
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    There's something very fundamentally wrong with buying tyres someone else has thrown away on safety grounds.

    Minimum tread depth doesn't really come into it.


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    #33
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    obi604 wrote: »
    I need to get 2 rear tyres only.
    Thinking of getting part worn tyres.

    I only do 4000 miles a year.

    How many miles could one expect to get out of part worn?

    What are people’s opinion on them?

    I have nothing against part works in theory. You just need to pick a relatively fresh pair of same tyres from good manufacturer, without any sign of damage. In practice though, it's a complete waste of time. You'll spend hours looking for anything decent.

    Pick a decent pair of all seasons and be done for winter and summer troubles in an hour. Money well spent


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    #34
    obi604
    Registered Users Posts: 5,467 ✭✭✭obi604


    1874 wrote: »
    Where you getting these quotes? and what size tyres?
    I got prices of 35 a tyre, I was looking for one tyre, asked what for the pair and paid less/tyre.
    Its possible to buy better part worns tyres for 40-45 and per your post more, but I saw very little difference in the tyres that cost more.
    In my opinion, better to have a good make with reasonable tread on it if selling than a poor tyre with lots of tread.
    If I saw a poor tyre make on a car I'd buy, Id take that into consideration when buying/paying, doesnt mean a seller will accept less but I have a good idea Id be changing the tyres out.


    Not going to name anyone here but a reputable independent tyre crowd.

    Tyre Size: 225/50/17


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    #35
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    There's something very fundamentally wrong with buying tyres someone else has thrown away on safety grounds.
    Minimum tread depth doesn't really come into it.


    See the post below, with a link referring to Michelin, I had not seen/read that before I posted the following thread. Anecdotally I have come to the same conclusion as Michelin, obviously for it to be worthwhile and acceptable they have spent a lot of money to come to this answer.

    It depends on the usage, the condition of the tyres, if you read the link, you'll see minimum tread depth isn't everything.

    beauf wrote: »
    The Germans have higher min depth regulation.
    Less tread is longer stopping distance.
    Though a good tyre with less tread is better than a new bad tyre.

    Something I experienced when I switched from old good brand tyres to a new tyre cheap brand, the new tyres were worse than the one I what changing from. It was like driving on Ice on a dry day.

    https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/the-case-for-and-against-running-your-tyres-to-minimum-legal-depth-35795271.html
    grogi wrote: »
    I have nothing against part works in theory. You just need to pick a relatively fresh pair of same tyres from good manufacturer, without any sign of damage. In parcticr, it's a waste of time. You'll spend hours looking for anything decent.

    Pick a decent pair of all seasons and be done for winter and summer troubles in an hour. Money well spent


    In practice? its a waste of time? Not necessarily, I went to a tyre place that sells new and part worns, told them what I wanted (size/brand type), he selected a few, I had a look, less than 2 minutes to pick them out and agree a price, granted not everywhere will be that quick and easy, I did have to wait for people ahead of me in the queue, but where wont that happen? You wont necessarily spend hours, the limits are whats available and if you know/have a good idea of what you're looking for, you could save some time ringing around to see if they have the size/brand/quantity you want in part worns. If you are looking for a specific tyre you've reviewed online, then dont expect it to be ready available as a part worn.


    buying brand new, you are relying on what is available just as much, unless a new tyre seller stocks exactly what you want and its available for sale now, so that has its limits too.
    If I was buying brand new, rather than just accept whats on offer, Id spend more time at it, as Id definitley want a smaller selection of specific tyres Id reviewed, wait for them to be delivered and then have them fitted.
    If buying on a budget, it can take the same or less time as buying new, if you want to buy brand new and that suits your usage or not, fine. If people are happier to buy from a franchise new, fine. It does not mean part worns are a bad choice or a safety concern, anymore than a new tyre thats been on the road a day, a week or month.


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    #36
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    The only conclusion possible is either that the German wear limits are too harsh, or that ours are not harsh enough.

    Anyone who would risk injury or worse for the sake of a few extra € on better tyres really shouldn't be driving.

    Part worns should be banned.


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    #37
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    obi604 wrote: »
    Not going to name anyone here but a reputable independent tyre crowd.

    Tyre Size: 225/50/17


    PM sent, few options, even if it takes some time, its worth the cost saving for certain usage.
    The only usage I probably wouldnt consider part worns and would get new (and then only in a specific tyres) is if I was doing high mileage (motorway/backroads) or at highish speeds all the time and/or if I had a new or nearly new car.
    The most dangerous tyres out there are new no name rubbish, people think they have great new tryes on their car and they may end up off the road or int he back of someone when they dont stop. Even doing short distances locally on rubbish tyres could have you in an accident in the wet.
    Thats my opinion and so far it has held up.


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    #38
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    The only conclusion possible is either that the German wear limits are too harsh, or that ours are not harsh enough.

    Anyone who would risk injury or worse for the sake of a few extra € on better tyres really shouldn't be driving.

    Part worns should be banned.




    Now I know youre talking nonsense, and just wont consider anyone elses opinion, you obviously did not read the link someone else provided regarding Michelin, its not just about saving money, and foisting that safety stuff onto people when part worns can be just as good as new tyres.

    If someone has not monitored their tyre pressure on a new tyre? it could be in a worse condition than an older tyre, just the same as a car that is very new but not due its NCT could be in worse condition than a car that is older but kept in good condition.
    So there are many more factors at play than just age, usage, mileage, maintenance (tyre pressures).
    Who should and shouldnt be driving based on that opinion, is not your decision.
    Who shouldnt be driving, is people who drive on badly worn or damaged tyres, what should be banned, not part worns, but cheap no name ditch finders, they should not be allowed to be sold and I dont know how they can pass any test to say they are fit for use.

    edit, Ive had no name tyres and they are dangerous, to my shame, Ive had a few, they are the worst kind of tyre out there, more so because people think their tyres are fine. Ive read some no names have come good and can produce good tyres, but I would not buy a brand that is not established/recognised without reviewing them, although I'd be unlikely to buy a brand that is not recognisable.
    The fearmongering over part worns is over done.


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    #39
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    All tyres even when new are not the same performance or braking.

    That difference (delta) will still be there between different products when old.


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    #40
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    1874 wrote: »
    Now I know youre talking nonsense, and just wont consider anyone elses opinion, you obviously did not read the link someone else provided regarding Michelin, its not just about saving money, and foisting that safety stuff onto people when part worns can be just as good as new tyres.

    Can't agree at all.

    The Germans have stricter standards and it's not for giggles. That includes all brands.


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    #41
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    Can't agree at all.

    The Germans have stricter standards and it's not for giggles. That includes all brands.


    Everything German isnt automatically good, the French seem to have a different opinion on it. Id be interested to see what the Germans take is on new but utterly useless tyres that have great tread from no name manufacturers but fall within age requirements and have appalling grip in the wet.
    Im not saying all German cars are likely to be on Autobahns with unrestricted speed limits, but I was likely to be driving at significantly high speed here or there, Id want my tyres rated for my usage and conditions.


    What next? replace tyres based on age because good tyres are now older and are deemed a safety risk. That link suggests what happens if people were forced to do that, most people will just buy cheap tyres and we'll all be worse off.



    I can even say the no name ditch finders I had, were fine in the dry, but horrendous in the wet, we have wet conditions, so they are not suited to use here in my opinion, maybe they are of use in conditions that reflect that.
    The same as someone pottering around locally or doing low miles or in my case even averagish mileage, is infinitely better off in terms of stopping ability in the wet even at low speeds on part worn good brands, than cheap no name rubbish which should be banned.


    Are new established brand tyres better, Id say probably yes, but the difference wont be significant to a part worn of the exact same type. Id even consider wearing in a new tyre, I dont know if thats really a factor, but Id pay heed to it with brake pads so potentially its one with any new part.


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    #42
    fancy pigeon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,861 ✭✭✭fancy pigeon


    1874 wrote: »
    What next? replace tyres based on age because good tyres are now older and are deemed a safety risk. That link suggests what happens if people were forced to do that, most people will just buy cheap tyres and we'll all be worse off.

    I normally don't bother with tyre threads as they always end up in circles...

    But I do know of a set of Michelins on a car (not any of our own fleet) I'll probably get the job of replacing. They are from 1993 and 1994 respectively, with about 6mm of tread. This car is daily driven short distances

    They are lethal in the wet, let alone any other condition

    I'll take pictures of them off the car either way


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    #43
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    RSA is against part worns...

    http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Your-Vehicles-Tyres-/Buying-part-worn-tyres/

    The evidence against part worn tyres is frankly overwhelming.





  • Options
    #44
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,824 ✭✭✭enricoh


    1.6mm is a joke imo should be at least a millimetre more.
    One of my in-laws swears by the part worns - spinning around last summer with snow tyres on!!


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    #45
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    1874 wrote: »
    In practice? its a waste of time? Not necessarily, I went to a tyre place that sells new and part worns, told them what I wanted (size/brand type) (...) If you are looking for a specific tyre you've reviewed online, then dont expect it to be ready available as a part worn.

    Never happened to me in 10 garages. I did a few tours and never found anything decent. I had better luck getting good part worn tyres when getting used alloys :D

    If you know what you are looking for, you can spot the signs of bad tyre and know a place that would have them in stock - why not. But for an average person looking for advice on Boards? They should get new set and be done with it.
    1874 wrote: »
    buying brand new, you are relying on what is available just as much, unless a new tyre seller stocks exactly what you want and its available for sale now, so that has its limits too.

    - ring ring
    - Tyre Place around the corner, how can I help.
    - Good morning, I'm looking for 205/55R16 SuperWeirdTyre.
    - We don't have them in stock right now, we can get them tomorrow for you. They would be €85 fitted.
    - See you tomorrow.

    Really that difficult?!

    And unless you're looking for something truly unique - like Michelin Pilot Sport 4s - the tyres in similar price category are typically very similar.


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    #46
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    RSA is against part worns...

    http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Your-Vehicles-Tyres-/Buying-part-worn-tyres/

    The evidence against part worn tyres is frankly overwhelming.





    Well, I looked at that youtube clip and its not overwhelming, looks like you added a second one while I as looking at the first?
    It is not overwhelming, thats your opinion and again, Michelin seem to think otherwise, which you so far have completely disregarded in any reply.



    anyway, that guy is stating stuff which is obvious for part worns, I knew I was buying them, doesnt seem like they have to be marked here, maybe its a good idea, but as part worns are sold as "part worns" hardly seems anyone is being duped, he even admits they were sold as part worn (just not marked) and in the strictest sense he says illegal, that doesnt mean the tyre was defective.
    Next the damage he described is obvious for any buyer and should be for any seller, I dont that tyre could even be inflated with that nail or whatever it was in there (looks like off a pallet or a fence), nor do I believe a correctly inflated tyre would flex that much, it would not even be possible to inflate it, the only thing being inflated here is the risk of all part worn tyres being defective.
    Underinflation damage obvious too as any other damage he described,

    the damage and problems he describes could just as much occur on a new or nearly new tyre.
    The inside of the tyre is available to see before its fitted, so the risks of it being poor are possible to see before its fitted.

    He says only 1 in 50 tyres was legally sold that they bought, but 1/3 was damaged, so 2/3rds (more) were actually fine! so many sold illegally just should have been stamped (according it seems to UK law).


    As for the example the guy driving the Renault, you can see the tyre, it looks poor/very aged rubber, is below the legal thread depth, and its possible the conditions and his driving contributed to his accident, its sad and unfortunate, but that could happen just as much on cheap no name ditch finders or existing worn tyres, having brand new tyres does not protect you from weather and road conditions.



    If anything that post confirms that only a 1/3 of part worns found by that guy in one instance were not suitable for use, so more (2/3) were ok. The thing is that any tyre in bad condition can lead to a bad outcome, so an underinflated new tyre through damage that leads to a failure or problems caused or associated with underinflation can cause the same problem.


    I would not call your evidence overwhelming, otherwise existing part worns will have to be removed from all cars, where do we start? 2 years? 1?.
    So long as there is sufficient tread depth and the tyre is in good condition, then it is as likely to be very suitable for use.


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    #47
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    grogi wrote: »
    Never happened to me in 10 garages.

    If you know what you are looking for, you can spot the signs of bad tyre and know a place that would have them in stock - why not. I did a few tours and never found anything decent. I had better luck getting good part worn tyres when getting used alloys :D

    - ring ring
    - Tyre Place around the corner, how can I help.
    - Good morning, I'm looking for 205/55R16 SuperWeirdTyre.
    - We don't have them in stock right now, we can get them tomorrow for you. They would be €85 fitted.
    - See you tomorrow.

    Really that difficult?!


    The funny thing about that is thats my tyre size, I have been told its not a common size, I got replacements last time in 2 minutes, before that turned up on spec and got one in a few minutes, I did not even ring ahead! :) most I paid was about 35 a pop, but its mostly about condition for me, if the tyre is good, then its a good deal.

    Part worns suit many people for their usage, like I said, if I had a brand new car or nearly new, Id put newer tyres on them.

    You realise after a year or two, your new tyres are part worn?

    I suggest going back and reading the link that someone else provided, here it is
    https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/the-case-for-and-against-running-your-tyres-to-minimum-legal-depth-35795271.html


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    #48
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III




    I can keep these coming but I think the point is well proven.

    Part worns could be old, kerbed, involved in an accident, or left sitting for an extended period. There's no way of knowing their history and the abuse they may have taken, and they may fail suddenly and without notice.

    They are a false economy.


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    #49
    Brian Scan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Brian Scan


    Henry Ford III wrote: »


    I can keep these coming but I think the point is well proven.

    Part worns could be old, kerbed, involved in an accident, or left sitting for an extended period. There's no way of knowing their history and the abuse they may have taken, and they may fail suddenly and without notice.

    They are a false economy.

    What he has actually proved there, and no more, is that 2mm tread depth is inadequate for those conditions.


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    #50
    corks finest
    Registered Users Posts: 8,628 ✭✭✭corks finest


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    So the Germans throw their part worns away due to safety concerns but we think they are still good.

    Somebody is wrong here.
    Anyone even considering that especially driving family are cuckoo,I mean would you wear s second hand underpants,no, wouldn't even consider it


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    #51
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,327 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    Part worns could be old, kerbed, involved in an accident, or left sitting for an extended period. There's no way of knowing their history and the abuse they may have taken, and they may fail suddenly and without notice.

    You can say the same about secondhand cars. So wouldn't you be mad to buy one?
    corks finest wrote: »
    Anyone even considering that especially driving family are cuckoo,I mean would you wear s second hand underpants,no, wouldn't even consider it

    The analogy of the underpants and (earlier) a used condom is franky ridiculous.

    There is a perfectly good explanation for where a lot of these tyres come from - if you trade in a car to a main dealer, he will get new tyres put on it before he puts it on his forecourt for sale. The tyres that come off those traded in cars end up as 'part worn' tyres and a lot of them are perfectly fine.

    And I wouldn't trust the RSA or the Department of Transport to give me guidance on the matter, they are total suckers for lobbyists on behalf of the Irish motor 'industry', everything they ask for, they get.


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    #52
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    coylemj wrote: »
    There is a perfectly good explanation for where a lot of these tyres come from - if you trade in a car to a main dealer, he will get new tyres put on it before he puts it on his forecourt for sale. The tyres that come off those traded in cars end up as 'part worn' tyres and a lot of them are perfectly fine.

    Did you ever buy a preloved car from a dealer? Did it come with brand new tyres? :D

    The typical dealers would not even pump the tyres, not to mention swap them - unless absolutely necessary.


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    #53
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,327 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    grogi wrote: »
    Did you ever buy a preloved car from a dealer? Did it come with brand new tyres? :D

    Yes and yes, three times. Bradys in Castleknock, Koping on the Naas Road and Ballsbridge Motors. New tyres every time.

    I said 'main dealers', a dealer with a franschise to sell new cars. I have never seen a secondhand car for sale in a main dealer that did not have new tyres.


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    #54
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭creedp


    coylemj wrote: »
    Yes and yes, three times. Bradys in Castleknock, Koping on the Naas Road and Ballsbridge Motors. New tyres every time.

    I said 'main dealers', a dealer with a franschise to sell new cars. I have never seen a secondhand car for sale in a main dealer that did not have new tyres.

    I had to fight hard to get a main dealer to put a new tyre on the front drivers side to match the new tyre on the passenger side that had to be replaced because of a puncture. He initially refused to do so saying he never removed a tyre from a car that was above the legal limit. This was on a 2 year old Nissan Leaf and he wanted to sell it with a brand new Nexen on one side of the front axle and a 75% worn Michelin energy on the other side!! He eventually changed it when I threatened to walk away. Even then his response was you would walk away from a deal for the sake of an €80 tyre!! There's a bit of irony there somewhere!!


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    #55
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,327 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Just because one dealer pawned you off with mixed tyres doesn't take from my point.

    Which is that a major source for part-worn tyres is trade-ins. Where the tyres are perfectly road safe.

    I have no doubt that there are dodgy tyres out but there's also hundreds of dodgy secondhand cars for sale and nobody is comparing them to used condoms or underpants.


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    #56
    Dakotabigone
    Site Banned Posts: 512 ✭✭✭Dakotabigone


    The used condom simile is infantile here.


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    #57
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    coylemj wrote:
    You can say the same about secondhand cars. So wouldn't you be mad to buy one?


    Without checking it's history - yes. You can't do that with tyres though.


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    #58
    E36Ross
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭E36Ross


    I got 4 matching branded partworn tyres a few weeks back.......

    Had been on the car for a month and it **** the engine so it was scrapped, Had done a 1000 or maybe 1500 miles.


    Nothing wrong with GOOD partworn tyres, Problem is most people don't know what they're looking at and assume a bit of thread and it holds air it'll be graaaaaand. Their is a lot of ****e out there though, From winter tyres to old perished tyres.



    Every car on the road is on partworns tyres. ;)


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    #59
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    E36Ross wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with GOOD partworn tyres, Problem is most people don't know what they're looking at and assume a bit of thread and it holds air it'll be graaaaaand. Their is a lot of ****e out there though, From winter tyres to old perished tyres.

    Do you think a person that comes here asking for tyre advice will know how to spot a GOOD partworn? I know a bit, but never will be sure about a tyre either.

    The only sensible advice is to get new tyres.


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    #60
    corks finest
    Registered Users Posts: 8,628 ✭✭✭corks finest


    grogi wrote: »
    E36Ross wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with GOOD partworn tyres, Problem is most people don't know what they're looking at and assume a bit of thread and it holds air it'll be graaaaaand. Their is a lot of ****e out there though, From winter tyres to old perished tyres.

    Do you think a person that comes here asking for tyre advice will know how to spot a GOOD partworn? I know a bit, but never will be sure about a tyre either.

    The only sensible advice is to get new tyres.
    Correct, FFS pls buy new tyres,I went the part worn direction 20 plus yrs ago, TBH no bobs,5 kids,regretted it ,blow out,now I know it may have happened anyway,but I didn't buy part worn since


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    #61
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,824 ✭✭✭enricoh


    corks finest wrote: »
    Correct, FFS pls buy new tyres,I went the part worn direction 20 plus yrs ago, TBH no bobs,5 kids,regretted it ,blow out,now I know it may have happened anyway,but I didn't buy part worn since

    Used to work at tyres 20 years ago n used to sell loads of remoulds. They didnt just blow out, they could just disintegrate while driving!
    I was told to tell the customer i never saw it happen before. Lethal.
    Part warns are ok if u know a bit about tyres, most punters know nothing and get any crap going.


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