Ambivalent about babies

The Cool · 23-01-2021 12:19am

cena wrote: »

I have just turned 36. No kids or partner/wife yet. I would love to have at least one or two by now. I would make a great dad.

Their is always fostering or adoption

I vaguely remember someone on here recently mentioning that 35 is the cut off age for adoption here, and its a lengthy process. Besides that, its not really how fostering or adoption work in Ireland - they are more as a support for children in need.

pwurple · 25-01-2021 12:39pm

cena wrote: »

Their is always fostering or adoption

There isn't always fostering or adoption.

Please don't rely on that. This is 2021, babies are not harvested from single mothers anymore. You can count the number of stranger adoptions that take place on one hand these days.

bitofabind · 25-01-2021 12:50pm

I'd never consider fostering or adoption as options, as there seems to be so many hoops to jump through and I'm nowhere near settled i.e married with a mortgage and two pensionable jobs.

A friend of mine is 30, single and really broody. She's decided if she hasn't met someone she'd see herself having kids with by 2022, she'll go the sperm donor route alone. When I had my fertility checked a few months ago, I learned about the process, timeline and costs associated with that. I think that's a far more viable option than fostering/adoption these days.

Neyite · 25-01-2021 12:54pm

Fostering and adopting are wonderful aspirations - but the threshold a prospective parent needs to meet is very high. That's as it should be, because it's putting the needs of the child to the forefront of the process. As well as that, there's very few newborns up for adoption, the children that are up for adoption have a complicated past and very often would have issues as a result of their biological family or their stints in care. So the priority is placing them with a family that could cope with behavioural issues and possibly work extensively with professionals to resolve them. Social welfare reforms has meant that mothers are supported by the state to keep their babies rather than surrender them to care - which is something we should be proud of.

It can take years to become approved for adoption and while it used to be that a quick trip to Eastern Europe or China after that got you your family, those routes have been closed down. History has shown us that adoption has had significant impacts on the adoptee - especially if there was any secrecy or concealment at play. Even the success stories, have people who still feel marginalised due to not being able to get their own birth cert, or their lack of rights as to regards their birth family.

Probably the easiest way of hedging your bets would be to freeze eggs/sperm for future use. But then surrogacy is another ethical minefield...

Segotias · 25-01-2021 8:02pm

36 for a man isn't old when it comes to having children, obviously as you get older you may have to aim for a younger partner but being a dad is still an option for you.

Faith · 26-01-2021 10:04am

For me, the question has become less “do I want a baby” and more “do I want to commit to raising a child”. Babies are cute and sweet and cuddly and squishy - of course they’re appealing!

What, for me, is not appealing is the long term realities of raising a child. Sure, there are amazing parts, but it’s bloody hard, and one needs to think about the good AND bad aspects of parenting, not just in the baby stage, but throughout development into adulthood.

My perception is definitely skewed because I work in healthcare with children, young people and parents, so I see firsthand every day the less common challenges of parenting and the damage that poor parenting does, so that definitely shapes my view.

But, for me, at the end of the day, after years and years of bloody hard work, I’m finally in a place where I love my life (at least, my life without the presence of COVID!). I have everything pretty much where I want it and I’m very happy for things to stay this way. I’m always open to changing my mind but I’m feeling really comfortable in my decision to be child free these days.

The Cool · 26-01-2021 2:58pm

@Faith, that is exactly how I'm feeling. I've been feeling unenthused at the idea of having kids for a few years now and thought maybe the broodiness would hit and change my mind. I think that broodiness has actually hit in a way - I want a baby, in that maternal instinct kind of way. I want to be pregnant and I want a baby to cuddle and smell and have that newborn baby bubble. I'm actually having dreams about having a baby so it feels like my uterus is screaming at me :pac:
But, I don't want a 4/8/12 year old! Having actual small people to parent just doesn't really appeal to me and honestly, I don't think I'd enjoy it. I like my freedom now and I think I'd hate the routines of school runs, homework, bedtime etc. And I think kids deserve better than someone who resents being a parent at all.

Baby Ambivalence · 26-01-2021 3:48pm

@thecool I was the opposite, I didn't mind the idea of parenting a kid that can feed themselves, express themselves verbally and wipe their own bum. The utter dependence of the baby phase left me feeling cold.

arex93 · 26-01-2021 7:12pm

There are still many children for adoption in my country (the abortion is illegal and the state does not offer assistance to single parents). The process also takes years, but there is no cut age and no costs. But I cannot adopt a child from my country if I live abroad. And I naively thought of adopting in Ireland without knowing the reality of the country. Fortunately, there are no abandon children here.

I never considered freezing my eggs because of the costs with no guarantee of results. And It does not please me the idea of submitting myself to a high level of hormones. But I think this is the best way under my circumstances if I take too long to start a family.

arex93 · 26-01-2021 7:23pm

Baby Ambivalence wrote: »

@thecool I was the opposite, I didn't mind the idea of parenting a kid that can feed themselves, express themselves verbally and wipe their own bum. The utter dependence of the baby phase left me feeling cold.

Same. Well, babies are cute and I would like to have experience with a newborn. But they are so dependent, it scares me.

When I think about my children, I think on them with the age of 5-10... I like the idea of raising a child, educate them...

Rmgblue · 29-01-2021 1:54pm

So I find myself here sharing all the same concerns worries and wonders.
I have just made an appointment to talk to someone about my options.
I am almost 36 and not where I want to be in my career. Selfish or not I will not get this job if I am pregnant/have a child. Apart from this I'm just not ready. Having a child for the sake of it doesn't sit right with me. I do know I want one but am certain I'm not ready. A family member recently under went cancer treatment and so was left with no other option to have her eggs frozen. I am giving this full consideration. Its scary too

ancapailldorcha · 29-01-2021 2:18pm

I think if I were set up in a stable job, a partner and a decent house I'd be struggling more with the decision. In a way, it's a bit of a relief that fate has taken it out of my hands as I'm living in a houseshare in London.

I've been to the homes of friends and relatives and seen the nice side of it but I've also seen struggling parents in museums and the like with squealing children running around and it looks like hell when it's like that.

There's a really nice line at the start of this thread by Doozer T6 that asks how upset you'd be if you were told you couldn't have children. I think I'd be devastated if I never got to travel any more or suffer a steep reduction in my alone time but having children I think I can live without. It's not nice to think that there'll be nobody to look after you but spending several years of your life on a partial countermeasure is a bad idea IMO. I just became and uncle and I've no interest in my niece/nephew. I think my answer is there somewhere.

woodchuck · 29-01-2021 3:38pm

Baby Ambivalence wrote: »

@thecool I was the opposite, I didn't mind the idea of parenting a kid that can feed themselves, express themselves verbally and wipe their own bum. The utter dependence of the baby phase left me feeling cold.

I'm the same. I have zero interest in babies. I don't see the appeal at all (I don't get the whole "new baby smell" thing). You can't interact with them on any sort of meaningful level. From the sounds of it, they just keep you up all night and you spend your whole time trying to clean/feed/comfort them. It sounds utterly miserable to me.

But kids! Kids I like. You can talk to kids. Play with them. Teach them things. Have a proper conversation with them. Help them with their problems.

I'm 35 and still don't feel broody for babies. I'm worried if I don't have a baby soon though, I'll never have a kid.

Baby Ambivalence · 29-01-2021 7:58pm

woodchuck wrote: »

(I don't get the whole "new baby smell" thing). You can't interact with them on any sort of meaningful level. From the sounds of it, they just keep you up all night and you spend your whole time trying to clean/feed/comfort them. It sounds utterly miserable

Now that I've joined the ranks of the breeders I can exclusively reveal the new baby smell is a myth. To be completely honest, the most noticeable smells I found with new parenthood was my own sweat (I sweated buckets for the first few months) and milk. Funnily enough the poo was fairly benign to begin with. The early baby months can be tough going but once they start to be aware of their surroundings its more enjoyable. Watching them learn and grow is fascinating.

Dickie10 · 31-01-2021 10:30pm

I put a good bit of thought into this topic recently as well. I absolutely adore my neices and nephews, maybe too much. I worry for their future and dont want the big bad world to get them, just want to wrap them up forever from it. Of course i know thats not healthy, i think there is definte broodiness coming out of me naturally now at 37 and has been since around 32. But the thought of having a baby scares me stiff, the thoughts of giving up free time to myself is a non runner. I also have the problem or perhaps the blessing of never having been in a relationship yet, i had lots of chances but something kept holding me back.

There was one girl 4 years ago whome i seen for 3 months max but she ghosted me so that was that. I was activly trying to woo two other girs whome i would have gladly tried a relationship with but it went no further than teh shift for a few weeks at a time. There have been other women who are seriously wanting me to get into a relationship with but i really wasnt mad into them the way i should be to embark in a relationship. I am so confused now about what exxactly a relationship is i suppose i am miles from embarking on wondering if i should have children.

Dickie10 · 31-01-2021 10:33pm

In all seriousness i wonder how the Covid scenario will play out in a few years re. babies born, weddings etc will we see a big gap there from the time singletons couldnt hook up naturally in places like coppers etc. surely this is still where many relationships first fire from or indeed babies concived. Like how many people on this thread would have met a partner in a nightclub, on a random night , perhaps in a place where if you had been in some other pub or not out at all you would not have met. A sliding doors moment?

Neyite · 01-02-2021 8:35pm

Baby Ambivalence wrote: »

Now that I've joined the ranks of the breeders I can exclusively reveal the new baby smell is a myth. To be completely honest, the most noticeable smells I found with new parenthood was my own sweat (I sweated buckets for the first few months) and milk. Funnily enough the poo was fairly benign to begin with. The early baby months can be tough going but once they start to be aware of their surroundings its more enjoyable. Watching them learn and grow is fascinating.

I could only ever smell it on other babies, never my own one. But other people who cuddled him got the new baby smell off him. I got a smell all right, but the closest I can describe is that if you blindfolded me and lined up a rake of babies, I'd know 'his' smell. It was weird, considering I probably used exactly the same soap/ shampoo or wipes on him. I just came to the conclusion that there was some sort of genetic thing to ensure we could recognise our own babies. Even now when the baby years are long past,I still would pick him out blindfolded in a sniff test. And it's not something that's affected by soap/dirt. If he is a mucky scruffer or newly scrubbed out of the bath, I get that olfactory recognition. It's mad.

Ave Sodalis · 01-02-2021 8:53pm

Neyite wrote: »

I could only ever smell it on other babies, never my own one. But other people who cuddled him got the new baby smell off him. I got a smell all right, but the closest I can describe is that if you blindfolded me and lined up a rake of babies, I'd know 'his' smell. It was weird, considering I probably used exactly the same soap/ shampoo or wipes on him. I just came to the conclusion that there was some sort of genetic thing to ensure we could recognise our own babies. Even now when the baby years are long past,I still would pick him out blindfolded in a sniff test. And it's not something that's affected by soap/dirt. If he is a mucky scruffer or newly scrubbed out of the bath, I get that olfactory recognition. It's mad.

My mother could smell it every time I got a sinus infection growing up, which was a lot. Nobody else noted the smell, but my mother could.

lazygal · 02-02-2021 12:42pm

Dickie10 wrote: »

In all seriousness i wonder how the Covid scenario will play out in a few years re. babies born, weddings etc will we see a big gap there from the time singletons couldnt hook up naturally in places like coppers etc. surely this is still where many relationships first fire from or indeed babies concived. Like how many people on this thread would have met a partner in a nightclub, on a random night , perhaps in a place where if you had been in some other pub or not out at all you would not have met. A sliding doors moment?

I met my husband at a party. Thrown by a work colleague I wasn't very good friends with. I remember standing outside the front door in two minds about whether I'd go in. Someone came up behind me and rang the bell so I couldn't exactly run off as the door opened immediately! I decided to give it an hour, met someone I knew and stayed longer and then got talking to my now husband. He was supposed to be somewhere else that night but agreed to tag along with his brother for an hour.

Dickie10 · 02-02-2021 11:12pm

lazygal wrote: »

I met my husband at a party. Thrown by a work colleague I wasn't very good friends with. I remember standing outside the front door in two minds about whether I'd go in. Someone came up behind me and rang the bell so I couldn't exactly run off as the door opened immediately! I decided to give it an hour, met someone I knew and stayed longer and then got talking to my now husband. He was supposed to be somewhere else that night but agreed to tag along with his brother for an hour.

Wow thats a bit crazy. Had any small detail not happened you may never have met. Must be some amount of those moments gone into the ether the last 12 months when you think of it. i would find it very hard to believe there are many who met Long Term people in libraries/coffee shops/gyms/hiking.
I wonder how exactly Europeans meet each other in cafe style bars where you dont stray from your table or get up and dance or mingle.

lazygal · 03-02-2021 2:42pm

It's definitely a real sliding doors moment for us! I remember that night so well, driving from a lecture and feeling a bit rubbish and wondering if I would bother going, then last minute pulling into the house and going to the door. I could easily have kept on driving.

leahyl · 09-02-2021 12:59pm

I honestly don't know what I want, as I've never had a relationship, so I think to myself, how could I know? On the one hand, I sometimes think I'd love a baby but I've never had that maternal feeling and this is probably down to me never having been in a relationship? Anybody else here who hasn't much relationship experience that feels this way? I'm 35 now, 36 in May so time isn't exactly on my side if I do want kids

DoozerT6 · 09-02-2021 8:51pm

leahyl wrote: »

I honestly don't know what I want, as I've never had a relationship, so I think to myself, how could I know? On the one hand, I sometimes think I'd love a baby but I've never had that maternal feeling and this is probably down to me never having been in a relationship? Anybody else here who hasn't much relationship experience that feels this way? I'm 35 now, 36 in May so time isn't exactly on my side if I do want kids

Yes I know exactly how that feels, I mentioned similar in an earlier post on this thread. It's a weird feeling to be this age (I'm 46) and to never have developed that bond with someone where I could see them as the father of my child(ren). It's just an abstract theory to me. Now that (realistically) any chance of having a family has passed for me, and I also never wanted to 'go it alone', I do feel regret for what could have been. But even that feeling of regret is somewhat abstract because I never once even got to consider/talk about starting a family with anyone, thus it was never a concrete idea in my head. Does that even make sense?

Addle · 09-02-2021 9:51pm

Covid has really affirmed my decision to not have children. It’s such a relief!
Though I find I’m getting a lot more ‘pity’ and having to defend my lifestyle a lot more lately.

Loveinapril · 09-02-2021 9:54pm

Addle wrote: »

Covid has really affirmed my decision to not have children. It’s such a relief!
Though I find I’m getting a lot more ‘pity’ and having to defend my lifestyle a lot more lately.

That is horrible that people cannot just respect your decision and not feel like you are lacking in anything.
I love my children and always wanted them but I do fantasise about what a child- free lockdown would be like!

Dickie10 · 10-02-2021 12:08am

i have never had a relationship either outside of a couple of dates for say 6-8 weeks , had a huge amount of chances but girls i was very attracted to didnt recipricote after a date or to. others that really wabted to date me just didnt enliven me hugely. its actually a vicous circle im 37 now and absolutley terriffied of a relationship, im so used to my own company. I love socialising but actually nowhalf liking lockdown and soberiety. i havent touched alchohol since september 28th, not even christmas. but i have thrown myself completely into my work even family have noticed that. its strangely comforting being in top gear and in control work wise, so i kind of love the lockdown as its got rid of the frivolus side of life, but know its unhealthy.

The thought of a relationship also scares me which i worry about what the heck is up there.

fits · 13-02-2021 10:32am

Loveinapril wrote: »

That is horrible that people cannot just respect your decision and not feel like you are lacking in anything.
I love my children and always wanted them but I do fantasise about what a child- free lockdown would be like!

I’d imagine it would be much less stressful ... and very boring !

Faith · 13-02-2021 11:47am

fits wrote: »

I’d imagine it would be much less stressful ... and very boring !

I'm curious why you think there would be a difference in the level of boredom experienced between childfree households and households with children?

fits · 13-02-2021 11:53am

Faith wrote: »

I'm curious why you think there would be a difference in the level of boredom experienced between childfree households and households with children?

I’m just busy the whole time. I lived abroad on my own in an apartment in Finland a few years ago and on winter weekends there was sometimes close to nothing to do. It’s a very different experience.

Faith · 13-02-2021 12:07pm

I think the ability to feel entertained is more about personality than children, tbh. I don't find I feel particularly bored during lockdown, but I might feel frustrated that I can't do all the things I'd like to do. Equally I've heard plenty of my friends with kids complain about unrelenting boredom.

fits · 13-02-2021 12:14pm

Faith wrote: »

I think the ability to feel entertained is more about personality than children, tbh. I don't find I feel particularly bored during lockdown, but I might feel frustrated that I can't do all the things I'd like to do. Equally I've heard plenty of my friends with kids complain about unrelenting boredom.

Well it’s really not easy at all. I’m up most days around 5am. I’m not employed at the moment so I have all the childcare responsibility during the working week. And it’s really full on with no outlet. ( at least not until this week )

However on balance I’d rather be here in the craziness than on my own in an apartment and living alone like I was before. I know I’d be susceptible to depression in that situation.

Addle · 13-02-2021 12:26pm

Loneliness and boredom are like broodiness in that they don’t affect everyone in the same way.
Thankfully, I’ve yet to be affected by any of them, and hopefully I never will be.
I’ve spent about 90% of the last year physically on my own and it hasn’t bothered me negatively at all.
I’m lucky!

Faith · 13-02-2021 12:36pm

fits wrote: »

Well it’s really not easy at all. I’m up most days around 5am. I’m not employed at the moment so I have all the childcare responsibility during the working week. And it’s really full on with no outlet. ( at least not until this week )

However on balance I’d rather be here in the craziness than on my own in an apartment and living alone like I was before. I know I’d be susceptible to depression in that situation.

Ah okay, I didn't realise you were speaking about purely your own experience, I thought you were making a broad generalisation.

It definitely doesn't sound easy to be up at 5am every morning. I'm a frontline healthcare worker and that's not easy too. I think we're all suffering in one way or another as a result of the pandemic. I'm glad your children are helping you through this, and I'm glad I don't have the extra stress of trying to look after children on top of everything else on my plate

fits · 13-02-2021 12:47pm

And I’m glad I’m not working at the moment too!

shesty · 13-02-2021 12:49pm

I am somewhere between thank god I have kids because I would be out of my mind by now with all of this otherwise...and the flip side of the coin is that I am desperately, desperately in need of some me time.I have reached and passed cracking point several times in the last year. I mean right down to head space, I can't even have my brain to myself to think a thought because someone is always talking at me or wanting me to read something or asking questions.

Kids fill the hours of this alright, but god what I wouldn't do for a day to lie on the couch and watch adult TV....a day where I do not have to haul out of bed at 7am, and drag kids out into the freezing cold at some point in the day because they need to get out.(even if I don't).I actually don't know what kind of person I will be by the end of this, I feel traumatised by it on many levels that I haven't identified yet.Much like the rest of you I expect.On the other hand living alone during this would be too hard for me anyway, I wouldn't be able to.

fits · 13-02-2021 1:07pm

Sums it up well Shesty! Some days are really hard. My husband was doing a project a few weekends ago so I had no real break over the weekend - and I really was at the end of my tether after that.

I’m supposed to be studying for an interview at the moment so.. I should get back to it.

Addle · 13-02-2021 3:12pm

Thinking about this since my last post.
My OH is working away.
If I was offered an hour now with him, or an hour with my hairdresser, I’d pick my hairdresser! ðŸ€

Dickie10 · 13-02-2021 8:49pm

i always find it a bit mad how some people that are settle/married with children could never see themselves as single again. I know some people who would have dreaded being single for more than a year when they were in there 20s, always needed to be going out with someone to varying levels of seriousness. I am the opposite just cant see myself in a relationship, id be petrified.

14-02-2021 1:36pm

fits wrote: »

I’m just busy the whole time. I lived abroad on my own in an apartment in Finland a few years ago and on winter weekends there was sometimes close to nothing to do. It’s a very different experience.

I'm busy all the time and a don't have kids!
Also spent a lot of time in Finland, so know the winters there well, I didn't find myself bored at all.
Don't think boredom would be a particularly good reason to have kids.

I don't mean to be smart with this poster, but it's just more of the attitude I listen to regularly. Like why would I need to buy a big car?
Cos I can & I want to.

shesty · 14-02-2021 2:53pm

fits wrote: »

Sums it up well Shesty! Some days are really hard. My husband was doing a project a few weekends ago so I had no real break over the weekend - and I really was at the end of my tether after that.

I’m supposed to be studying for an interview at the moment so.. I should get back to it.

I had a bit of a bad day yesterday.But things are tough at the moment, and I think if it was only me, I could cope, but because this horribleness is hurting my kids, who are innocent parties in all this, it hurts me even more....I mean having my 2 year old going into a shop with me and "washing his hands" and saying things like "and you can't forget your mask mammy' is just....dagger through my heart stuff.He is 2, this shouldn't be part of his world.I find I swing from wanting to protect them and desperately wanting to give them their normal back, to wanting my own space, a zillion times a day.

Anyway, today is a new day.Good luck with your interview Fits.

The Cool · 14-02-2021 6:42pm

I would say that in the last year with lockdowns etc I've been lonely rather than bored, but lonely for my friends. Maybe the boredom thing also depends on whether you enjoy having nothing to do. Any time I've felt like I've been going up the walls from it being just myself and my partner in the house, it's more so that I'm dying to spend some time with my close girl pals. I haven't ever felt like I would have liked kids around for company. Maybe because (usually) I can see my friends whenever I want, but also say no when I want to spend time alone. I grew up in a busy house of 4 kids with lots of coming and going, but that doesn't appeal to me for my life now, I like a bit of peace!

Loveinapril · 14-02-2021 7:16pm

I think The Cool has a very good point. With kids, there is never nothing to do. Mine are 1.5 and 3 so there is very little alone time or peace and quiet, which I LOVE. I work outside the home so I am lucky in that respect that I see colleagues but other than that, it is fairly isolating a lot of my time it is just me and the kids because my husband works 24 hour shifts. I just imagine that my child free lockdown would be filled with hangovers, phone calls with friends and reading all the books in a tidy house. Although my mother is both sick of cleaning and reading so I get that kids kind of fill the possibility of "boredom". But I think parents are feeling lots of other things right now. I can't be the only one who is totally overwhelmed by Groundhog Day and the fact that my youngest has never spent time with any kids other than her brother. Having kids is a massive commitment and they change every aspect of your life so boredom and loneliness is not a reason to procreate.

fits · 14-02-2021 7:51pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm busy all the time and a don't have kids!
Also spent a lot of time in Finland, so know the winters there well, I didn't find myself bored at all.
Don't think boredom would be a particularly good reason to have kids.

I don't mean to be smart with this poster, but it's just more of the attitude I listen to regularly. Like why would I need to buy a big car?
Cos I can & I want to.

So what did you get up to on weekends in November and December. I’m no social butterfly but I found the margins of winter tough going. And I love Finland. And Are you actually insinuating I had kids to ease boredom?

Don’t mean to be smart? Indeed.

14-02-2021 9:05pm

fits wrote: »

So what did you get up to on weekends in November and December. I’m no social butterfly but I found the margins of winter tough going. And I love Finland. And Are you actually insinuating I had kids to ease boredom?

Don’t mean to be smart? Indeed.

No, I didn't insinuate that. And I said I wasn't being smart, I meant it.

Ambivalent about babies

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