All Primary / Secondary Masters Courses - Post Q's Here Please

Toto Wolfcastle · 08-09-2010 3:20pm #1

This thread can be used to ask questions about the PME (Primary and Post Primary)

Please search this thread to see if your question has been answered before posting in it.

Keep in mind that course requirements can change and college experiences vary between students.

peanuthead · 08-09-2010 10:13pm

Great stuff, janeybabe, I will kick off with this one:

How do I apply for the PGDE?

To apply for the PGDE you will go through PAC, which is the postgraduate applications centre.

http://www.pac.ie

Colleges that use the PAC system are:

NUIM
UCD
UCC
NUIG - as gaeilge option

For 2009-10 entry, the deadline was December 1st and the fee was €80. There is a late applications date sometime in January and the fee for that is €120
The system is very much like the CAO system for undergraduates and you will be allocated a number of points depending on your final year results (2nd year results if applying during your 3rd year) and any other postgraduate courses you have done (minimum requirement of a 1year full time course)
There are no longer points given for teaching practice, although its not a bad idea to have some done before deciding the course is for you.
The times you are in college and in school will vary from college to college.
The fees in 2009-10 were around the 6.5K mark.
You are not paid for teaching practice.

The other colleges that offer the PGDE in Ireland are:

TCD
Application through the college. Interview and application based. For those doing Modern Foreign Languages, a portion of your interview is carried out in that language. In 2009 is cost €50 to apply through Trinity. Deadline was December 1st 2009 for 2009-10 entry.

DCU
Application through the college. This is a part time, 2 year course.

Talanta · 09-09-2010 11:33am

I just worked out my points from the PAC website. I have 44, but the points for this year were 43 and not everybody with that got offered a place.

Would I be cutting it fine to go for it with just 44 points?

delta_bravo · 09-09-2010 4:19pm

I expect points to go down next year for NUI colleges as teaching experience is no longer valued.

Toto Wolfcastle · 09-09-2010 7:27pm

Thread merged with PGDE thread.

peanuthead · 10-09-2010 1:21pm

Talanta wrote: »

I just worked out my points from the PAC website. I have 44, but the points for this year were 43 and not everybody with that got offered a place.

Would I be cutting it fine to go for it with just 44 points?

delta_bravo wrote: »

I expect points to go down next year for NUI colleges as teaching experience is no longer valued.

I find it hard to predict whether points will go up or down.

In one way you could expect them to go down because of what you say delta_bravo.

The other side to that is that the points would be expected to remain more or less the same, meaning that teachers without sufficient points will have to do something like a masters first. I personally don't like this idea, however it may go this way for a while.

There are a lot of unqualified teachers in Ireland working under contracts and afaik a number of places are being allocated to those (exempt from the application process I imagine)

It would actually suit pac to have less successful applicants as they will technically have less places until the entire current working population of teachers are actually qualified if I understand this correctly.

Cat Melodeon · 10-09-2010 11:25pm

I'm playing around with the idea of doing the PGDE but have a feeling I'd have to go back and re-do my undergrad degree so any advice would be welcome. I have a BSc in International Studies with an undergrad Diploma in Politics and Government from Open University, as well as an MA in Sociology from UL. Does anyone have any idea if that would qualify me to teach CSPE (and hopefully the proposed Society & Politics subject if it ever gets introduced)? I got firsts in the BSc & MA, if that makes any difference.

Additionally, I did two years of English at UCD a few years ago but didn't complete the degree (flunked Geography). Could that be counted towards anything?

I know they don't count teaching experience any more, but I've also worked as an SNA and done resource teaching (unqualified rates, needless to say) as well as a few years' TEFL teaching abroad (not with an ACELS-recognised qualification though).

Edit: Forgot to say I've also done 3rd level tutoring and a small amount of lecturing at UL - this is what I really want to be doing, but family constraints mean I need to work locally for a few years and this type of work is simply not available where I live.

pathway33 · 11-09-2010 2:58am

There will no longer be points available for unqualified teaching experience as before but there will for 2011 entry be points for previous professional experience such as youth sports coach, youth organiser, social worker, translator (for language teachers). Check it out http://www.pac.ie/pgdeinfo/PointsCalc.php?inst=pe

Toto Wolfcastle · 11-09-2010 8:53am

I wouldn't do the PGDE in the hope of becoming a CSPE teacher. CSPE, despite being an exam subject, is generally given to teachers as a timetable filler. That's my experience anyway. You'd need another subject to get you into a school.

My advice would be to go back and finish your English degree. There are too many English teachers floating around as it is but seeing as you already have 2 years done it would save you having to do a full degree again. How many years of Geography did you do in that degree? Would you consider going back to finish that? It would be good to have another subject besides English and CSPE and if you already have some Geography done that's half the battle.

Otherwise you will have to do another degree to teach other subjects. Good luck.

Alanaccounting · 11-09-2010 10:07am

pathway33 wrote: »

There will no longer be points available for unqualified teaching experience as before but there will for 2011 entry be points for previous professional experience such as youth sports coach, youth organiser, social worker, translator (for language teachers). Check it out http://www.pac.ie/pgdeinfo/PointsCalc.php?inst=pe

Makes a lot of sense that professional experience now counts, you can have all the theory you want but you learn more from practice

Cat Melodeon · 11-09-2010 11:44pm

janeybabe wrote: »

I wouldn't do the PGDE in the hope of becoming a CSPE teacher. CSPE, despite being an exam subject, is generally given to teachers as a timetable filler. That's my experience anyway. You'd need another subject to get you into a school.

My advice would be to go back and finish your English degree. There are too many English teachers floating around as it is but seeing as you already have 2 years done it would save you having to do a full degree again. How many years of Geography did you do in that degree? Would you consider going back to finish that? It would be good to have another subject besides English and CSPE and if you already have some Geography done that's half the battle.

Otherwise you will have to do another degree to teach other subjects. Good luck.

Getting into a school wouldn't be too much of a problem - I've a very good relationship with the principal in the school where I worked as an SNA/taught resource and she's always throwing bits of work my way. I'd continue doing this (don't need full-time work) but just get annoyed by the lower rates of pay for unqualified teachers. Really I just want the HDip/PGDE and continue as I am, but get paid more for it.

peanuthead · 12-09-2010 10:37pm

Alanaccounting wrote: »

Makes a lot of sense that professional experience now counts, you can have all the theory you want but you learn more from practice

Which, if I'm getting your point correctly, doesn't make sense to disallow teaching experience for points. IMO of all the professional experience you could have, classroom exp would have to be the most valuable, no?

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Getting into a school wouldn't be too much of a problem - I've a very good relationship with the principal in the school where I worked as an SNA/taught resource and she's always throwing bits of work my way. I'd continue doing this (don't need full-time work) but just get annoyed by the lower rates of pay for unqualified teachers. Really I just want the HDip/PGDE and continue as I am, but get paid more for it.

Someone feel free to step in here and tell me I'm wrong, but I'm almost certain that unqualified rates are actually HIGHER than qualifieds. I think it has something to do with the fact that you have no holiday pay entitlements etc..??

Also, no disrespect, after all I don't know your circumstances, but the advice you were given about CSPE as a subject was given from someone looking at the bigger picture. If for whatever reason you ever find yourself looking for employment in a school other than the one where your relationship with the principal is good, your chances of getting one with only CSPE on your TC cert is extremely low.

Positions tend to be advertised for a subject with CSPE, I've never seen it advertised alone before.

With juniors only taking it and with that them taking it only once per week in the majority of cases, you would have to be in a large school to end up with a substantial contract.

I think you will find that most people here will suggest you try get another subject.

patma · 13-09-2010 4:19pm

I have studied three years at collage and have recieved my ordinary degree in business studies~(level 7) I have taken a year out and have decided i would like to go on to do secondary school teaching.
Has anyone some advice of how i could go about this? I am interested in both- doing it in the UK or Ireland?

all help would be appreciated?

Toto Wolfcastle · 13-09-2010 4:25pm

Post moved to PGDE thread.

JohnMearsheimer · 14-09-2010 8:09pm

Just wondering if doing a H.Dip in a subject like history or geography would allow me to teach it at second level?

Cat Melodeon · 14-09-2010 11:51pm

peanuthead wrote: »

Someone feel free to step in here and tell me I'm wrong, but I'm almost certain that unqualified rates are actually HIGHER than qualifieds. I think it has something to do with the fact that you have no holiday pay entitlements etc..??

Also, no disrespect, after all I don't know your circumstances, but the advice you were given about CSPE as a subject was given from someone looking at the bigger picture. If for whatever reason you ever find yourself looking for employment in a school other than the one where your relationship with the principal is good, your chances of getting one with only CSPE on your TC cert is extremely low.

Positions tend to be advertised for a subject with CSPE, I've never seen it advertised alone before.

With juniors only taking it and with that them taking it only once per week in the majority of cases, you would have to be in a large school to end up with a substantial contract.

I think you will find that most people here will suggest you try get another subject.

Thanks for that.
I'm only looking to teach short-term so going back to do more undergrad isn't really an option for me. I've done (and have the opportunity to do again) home tutoring for which the unqualified rate is almost half that of the qualified rate - it's a bit frustrating really. I'm probably going to have to bite the bullet and go back to the 3.5 hour round trip to Limerick for work, baby in tow...

peanuthead · 15-09-2010 1:24pm

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Just wondering if doing a H.Dip in a subject like history or geography would allow me to teach it at second level?

It would indeed, providing that your undergraduate degree is in both history and geography.

peanuthead · 15-09-2010 1:26pm

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Thanks for that.
I'm only looking to teach short-term so going back to do more undergrad isn't really an option for me. I've done (and have the opportunity to do again) home tutoring for which the unqualified rate is almost half that of the qualified rate - it's a bit frustrating really. I'm probably going to have to bite the bullet and go back to the 3.5 hour round trip to Limerick for work, baby in tow...

Look, everyones situations are different. Just because its a lot of peoples dream to be permanent with 2 subjects and 18-22 hours, doesn't mean that it has to be yours.

If doing the DIP in CSPE only is what works for you then go for it. AFAIK you don't HAVE to study 2 subjects, its just recommended that you do for employability.

If you know you can get work that suits you by doing things your way then go for it.

dmainmanmono · 15-09-2010 7:13pm

Hello i am currently studying for a PGCE in England, I was just wondering is it Hard to get the dip year back home? have many been given out and should i start applying soon?

peanuthead · 15-09-2010 7:46pm

dmainmanmono wrote: »

Hello i am currently studying for a PGCE in England, I was just wondering is it Hard to get the dip year back home? have many been given out and should i start applying soon?

If you are looking to do the DIP here in Ireland, you can request an application form from PAC.IE and it will have to be in by Dec 1st.

You may also apply independently to TCD, call them for an application form. I think the deadline is the same.

Getting in here works on a points system. There are nowhere near the same amount of places on offer here that there are in the UK. It seems to be the case that unless you have a very high 2.1 or 1st you won't get into the PGDE course here with an undergrad alone.

In that case you will need to do a postgraduate qualification of some kind, a certificate, diploma or masters or something like that.

I happen to know there were some people applying last year who had PHDs :eek::eek: so obviously enough these people will be more or less guaranteed places ahead of you. You are up against that.

My advice to you or to anyone in the same position is to apply to both PAC and TCD and then go ahead and apply to the UK too.

Toto Wolfcastle · 15-09-2010 7:51pm

dmainmanmono wrote: »

Hello i am currently studying for a PGCE in England, I was just wondering is it Hard to get the dip year back home? have many been given out and should i start applying soon?

Are you studying to be a primary teacher and wondering about the probation year in Ireland or do you want to do the PGDE (secondary teaching qualification) in Ireland?

implausible · 16-09-2010 12:21am

peanuthead wrote: »

Someone feel free to step in here and tell me I'm wrong, but I'm almost certain that unqualified rates are actually HIGHER than qualifieds.

There are three types of sub teacher whose pay is calculated by the hour: unqualified casual, qualified casual and non-casual (fixed term e.g. maternity leave). You're confusing 'unqualified' with 'casual'. From TUI diary:

Qualified casual hourly rate (incl. holiday pay) = €46.85
Unqualified hourly rate (incl. holiday pay) = €40.85
Qualified non-casual teachers get a rate of pay that's in line with their point on the scale and inclusive of holiday pay.

dmainmanmono · 17-09-2010 12:35am

I am studying for a Pgce in primary education. I am looking to do my dip year back home in ireland but have heard without irish it is very hard to get?

Toto Wolfcastle · 17-09-2010 9:14am

I'm not an expert in primary teaching, but afaik you will have to do the Irish exam (SCG?) when you return to Ireland. I don't know how long you have to do this exam. Without Irish you will find it difficult to get a job do complete your dip year. There are hundreds of primary teachers qualifying each year who have Irish and who are all looking for jobs.

I could be wrong here, but I don't think it's as simple as them giving out places to do the dip. I think you have to just apply for jobs and hope that you get a contract long enough to complete the dip year. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Edit: Perhaps there is only a certain amount of people who they will inspect in any given year? I don't know, I think I'm just confusing you as well as myself.

The first part of my post still stands though.

JohnMearsheimer · 20-09-2010 11:40pm

Sorry for postng ths question again but I never got an answer to it as a bit of debate brewed up about something else and I think my question got a bit lost in it. Anyway, just wondering if doing a H.Dip in a subject that is taught in a secondary school like history make me eligible to teach it? Thanks.

implausible · 21-09-2010 12:05am

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Sorry for postng ths question again but I never got an answer to it as a bit of debate brewed up about something else and I think my question got a bit lost in it. Anyway, just wondering if doing a H.Dip in a subject that is taught in a secondary school like history make me eligible to teach it? Thanks.

Didn't Peanuthead already answer this? Yes, if you have a degree in History and you do a H.Dip (in Education, it's called the PGDE now), you can teach it.

JohnMearsheimer · 21-09-2010 12:14am

Sorry deemark, I should have been clearer. I have a degree in politics which I can only use for teaching CSPE which would be a bit pointless. I was wondering if I did a H.Dip in history first (the subject on its own) would it make me eligible to teach history if I went on to do the PGCE?

implausible · 21-09-2010 12:22am

I didn't know you could do a H.Dip in History! The answer is 'no' I'm afraid, you have to have the subject in your primary degree. The TC looks for:

"(a) A suitable degree or equivalent award, not including a training-in-teaching qualification, but with recognised post-primary subject(s) taken as major component(s) of the degree programme. The duration of such a degree programme must be at least three years of full-time study or equivalent. "

JohnMearsheimer · 21-09-2010 12:36am

Yep, you can do one in UCC. Looks like its back to the drawing board for me!

readystudypass · 21-09-2010 1:06am

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Yep, you can do one in UCC. Looks like its back to the drawing board for me!

I'm vaguely familiar with the H.Dip in History in UCC and I believe the modules are taken from the 2nd and 3rd year of the undergraduate degree. Because you already have a degree that requirement is satisfied for the Teaching Council. The next requirement is have you covered the required number of credits in an undergraduate degree as outlined by the Teaching Council. Obviously, yes you would, if you choose the appropriate modules related to the Leaving Cert syllabus. In the vast majority of cases only an undergraduate degree will be recognised. However there is precedent for a Higher Diploma being recognised (The H.Dip in Theology in NUI Maynooth allows qualified teachers of other subjects to teach religion).

It would be foolish to do the H.Dip in History in the hope that the Teaching Council will listen to the case outlined above, and it is unlikely they will give you a definite answer before you present the completed qualification. However I believe where a higher diploma consists of undergraduate modules, the case is strong. I'm not that familiar with the modules offered but I believe if you chose 12th century history, then that module could not be counted because it does not cover the period examinable under the Leaving Certificate. The emphasis on undergraduate modules is emphasised by the fact that if you in your situation were to manage to get into a Masters in History it would be completely useless to you in terms of being recognised by the Teaching Council as a qualification to teach history.

As an alternative, would you consider the BA at www.oscail.ie . It is fully recognised by the Teaching Council to teach history (and english if you choose the literature modules). Degree holders also get some exemptions. It's distance learning with occasional face2face tutorials.

That's all I have to offer I'm afraid.

VonLuck · 21-09-2010 2:05am

I have an honours degree in engineering from DIT which I believe allows me to do a H.Dip in Mathematics, Physics and Computer Science.

I am not very familiar with the whole process but do I have to do a full time year long H.Dip course to become qualified to teach? A friend of mine mentioned that there was a part time course you could do while teaching (possibly substitute teaching? I'm not sure). Is there any truth to that?

Also, is it possible for me to teach Technical Drawing? From my course I believe I have much more experience in drawing than I do in all the aspects of physics but it isn't listed... Is there any way around this or was it necessary for me to have done a 3 year course in something else?

Thanks.

readystudypass · 21-09-2010 11:11am

VonLuck wrote: »

A friend of mine mentioned that there was a part time course you could do while teaching (possibly substitute teaching? I'm not sure). Is there any truth to that?

Yes. Dublin City University do a 2 year part-time Graduate Diploma in Education.

dory · 21-09-2010 12:46pm

VonLuck wrote: »

I have an honours degree in engineering from DIT which I believe allows me to do a H.Dip in Mathematics, Physics and Computer Science.

I am not very familiar with the whole process but do I have to do a full time year long H.Dip course to become qualified to teach? A friend of mine mentioned that there was a part time course you could do while teaching (possibly substitute teaching? I'm not sure). Is there any truth to that?

Also, is it possible for me to teach Technical Drawing? From my course I believe I have much more experience in drawing than I do in all the aspects of physics but it isn't listed... Is there any way around this or was it necessary for me to have done a 3 year course in something else?

Thanks.

You have to chose two subjects. So maths and Physics. No one cares if you're qualified for computers or not. No in my school was ever qualified.

The Part-Time is mostly for people who have been teaching in a school for a few years and would now like to be qualified without quitting their job. You can't really just decide to do it as you'd have no guarantee that come September you'd have a job. In fact, it'd be highly unlikely someone would hire you if you're unqualified and there's a surplus of unemployed qualified teachers.

JohnMearsheimer · 21-09-2010 8:24pm

readystudypass wrote: »

I'm vaguely familiar with the H.Dip in History in UCC and I believe the modules are taken from the 2nd and 3rd year of the undergraduate degree. Because you already have a degree that requirement is satisfied for the Teaching Council. The next requirement is have you covered the required number of credits in an undergraduate degree as outlined by the Teaching Council. Obviously, yes you would, if you choose the appropriate modules related to the Leaving Cert syllabus. In the vast majority of cases only an undergraduate degree will be recognised. However there is precedent for a Higher Diploma being recognised (The H.Dip in Theology in NUI Maynooth allows qualified teachers of other subjects to teach religion).

It would be foolish to do the H.Dip in History in the hope that the Teaching Council will listen to the case outlined above, and it is unlikely they will give you a definite answer before you present the completed qualification. However I believe where a higher diploma consists of undergraduate modules, the case is strong. I'm not that familiar with the modules offered but I believe if you chose 12th century history, then that module could not be counted because it does not cover the period examinable under the Leaving Certificate. The emphasis on undergraduate modules is emphasised by the fact that if you in your situation were to manage to get into a Masters in History it would be completely useless to you in terms of being recognised by the Teaching Council as a qualification to teach history.

As an alternative, would you consider the BA at www.oscail.ie . It is fully recognised by the Teaching Council to teach history (and english if you choose the literature modules). Degree holders also get some exemptions. It's distance learning with occasional face2face tutorials.

That's all I have to offer I'm afraid.

Thanks Ready, you've given me a bit to think about. I emailed the Teaching Council to ask them about the H Dip in History and mentioned that they recognise the H Dip in Theology for the purpose of teaching religion (albeit for qualified teachers). I hope they'll at least consider it if I take the correct modules. Cheers for the heads up about DCU. I spent 6 years in college and I'm not keen to go back and start again but never say never

. We really need a leaving cert politics subject in ths country!

readystudypass · 21-09-2010 9:21pm

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Cheers for the heads up about DCU. I spent 6 years in college and I'm not keen to go back and start again but never say never . We really need a leaving cert politics subject in ths country!

I have heard of degree holders talking about taking just the history modules (4 out of 6) with Oscail in order to satisfy Teaching Council requirements. I don't know if they were just hoping it would work out for them but it seems to satisfy the eligibility requirements. Again, never attempt to prejudge the TC.

Politics was supposed to be introduced for Leaving Cert in the coming years but has probably been put on the back burner now due to financial constraints.

JohnMearsheimer · 21-09-2010 11:42pm

readystudypass wrote: »

I have heard of degree holders talking about taking just the history modules (4 out of 6) with Oscail in order to satisfy Teaching Council requirements. I don't know if they were just hoping it would work out for them but it seems to satisfy the eligibility requirements. Again, never attempt to prejudge the TC.

Politics was supposed to be introduced for Leaving Cert in the coming years but has probably been put on the back burner now due to financial constraints.

Thanks again Ready. Do you mean they just took 4 history modules at 15 credits each (60 in total) in the 1st year of the BA and left it at that or took 4 history modules each year for 3 years (180 credits) for the full BA award? I presume the latter.

My background is politics and international relations so I would really like to teach history and is ties in quite well with what I studied. I did a lot of Cold War history during my masters and covered European unity during my degree. I know these are on history syllabus (I know they represent only a small part of the history course). I wonder if the Teaching Council would recognise any of that if I went down the history road.... I suppose I can ask them. It's a shame politics has been put on the back burner given its impact on our day to day lives. I remember my CSPE teacher in school was not qualified to teach the subject but that was back in 1999. Are CSPE teachers these days generally politics/sociology grads?

readystudypass · 22-09-2010 12:45am

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Do you mean they just took 4 history modules at 15 credits each (60 in total) in the 1st year of the BA and left it at that or took 4 history modules each year for 3 years (180 credits) for the full BA award? I presume the latter.

Not the latter. There are only 6 modules (90 credits) of history available with Oscail anyway.

I mean they were thinking about taking just 4 modules at 15 credits each and leaving it at that. The Teaching Council requires that history (mainly Irish and European) covers a minimum of 30% of the degree over a minimum of 3 years.

30% of 180 credits is 54 so it seems you are covered there with 60 0scail credits.

The 'over a minimum of 3 years' requirement could be taken to mean that some modules must be taken in the 3rd (or 4th for some degrees) year of the degree. This requirement would seem to be met by the fact that in Oscail Level 1 courses are prerequisites for higher level modules. So if you were to pursue this, to be honest, risky strategy, you could only do HIS 1 in your first year. Then you would do for example 2 more modules the following year, totalling 30 credits. In the 3rd year you would do a 15 credit module.

Alternatively you could do HIS 1 in year 1 for 15 credits and 45 credits in year 2 providing you were able to cover the relevant material as Oscail alternate some modules every second year. The TC may say you did nothing in year 3 but you could argue you did the module that others have done in year 3.

Oscail used to allow students wishing to beef up their degrees for the Teaching Council register for individual modules without registering for the entire BA. I presume they still allow this.

I wouldn't get too excited about the chances of the above working out smoothly for you but it's an avenue to be explored. I don't know the outcome of the people I heard about interpreting the Teaching Council regulations as I have outlined.

readystudypass · 22-09-2010 12:57am

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

I did a lot of Cold War history during my masters and covered European unity during my degree. I know these are on history syllabus (I know they represent only a small part of the history course). I wonder if the Teaching Council would recognise any of that if I went down the history road

I think they should recognise every 5 credits of history gained in an undergraduate degree or module studied independently that is part of an undergraduate degree in History. So undergraduate European Unity - Yes.

I would hold out little hope of anything you studied in your masters being recognised. Seems bizarre but there you go.

readystudypass · 22-09-2010 1:03am

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

I remember my CSPE teacher in school was not qualified to teach the subject but that was back in 1999. Are CSPE teachers these days generally politics/sociology grads?

Ten years on I have heard of teachers qualified in other subjects e.g French, Maths being given CSPE.

22-09-2010 1:44pm

Hopefully this is the right thread ..I was wondering if any of you guys could please help me with this - Say you've been accepted onto a PGDE course and can't find a school to undertake the teaching placement, what happens then? do you lose your place on the course? thanks for your help

implausible · 22-09-2010 2:09pm

68508224 wrote: »

Say you've been accepted onto a PGDE course and can't find a school to undertake the teaching placement, what happens then? do you lose your place on the course?

Well, you can't complete the PGDE or get qualified without teaching practice, so it would be pointless doing it. I don't know about losing your place, I'm sure they'd give you time to find one. It shouldn't be that difficult to get a school - it's a free teacher after all. The only problem I can imagine is that there might be a school that has a few PGDE students already, if so, you may have to go a bit further afield.

peanuthead · 24-09-2010 10:31pm

68508224 wrote: »

Hopefully this is the right thread ..I was wondering if any of you guys could please help me with this - Say you've been accepted onto a PGDE course and can't find a school to undertake the teaching placement, what happens then? do you lose your place on the course? thanks for your help

Lecturers on the PGDE courses have lots of connections in lots of schools nationwide so you won't be stuck for TP. Always best to source it for yourself though.

addda · 26-09-2010 5:43pm

I was just looking at the business degrees that are under points quota and Commerce in UCD isn't listed. Does anyone know if that means it's not under quota or is it a mistake?

delta_bravo · 26-09-2010 6:21pm

Just a query here with all the jobs shortages etc. If you do the H.Dip equivalent in the UK to teach in Ireland you need to do the History of Irish Education exam and probably a load of paperwork and hassle from the TC; what is the process for the reverse? If you have a PGDE from Ireland and want to teach in the UK?

ALH-06 · 30-09-2010 9:02am

Hi all,

I'm thinking of undertaking the PGDE starting next September, to qualify as a second-level teacher. My subject would be history.

I've done a bit of reading into the different university options in Ireland, but would really like to hear your opinions / about your experiences as well. So whichever course you have done, or are thinking of doing in the future, any comparative information on the different courses available would be great.

Here's what I've ascertained so far: (open to correction, of course)

UCD:
Quite a gruelling and demanding course that stipulates each day be shared between school (teaching practice) and university commitments. Everyone I've talked to about it bemoans the large workload and stress involved!

I studied in UCD for 4 years and loved it, but I think that for personal reasons and also the above factor, it's time for me to look somewhere else...

Trinity:
My preference at this stage, as I'm from Dublin and am not too keen on the UCD option as it stands. I understand that PGDE students spend separate days at university and school, which I would deem preferable. The course is supposed to be a lot less demanding than it's UCD counterpart, in terms of overall workload.

But would also seem that Trinity is the most subscribed-to course in the country. Together with the interview-based assessment, I'm presuming this makes it very difficult get offered a place?

Maynooth NUI
Operates a separate university day / teaching day timetable, like Trinity. Other than that, I've got no info on how the course is supposed to compare to others, or even the stipulations regarding school candidature. Must PGDE students teach at a local school, in or around the Maynooth vicinity? How would the course / workload compare?

Galway NUI
Unique from aforementioned courses in that the teaching practice comes in the form of 2 singular blocks during the year, together numbering 13 weeks. This time is spent exclusively in the school, while the rest of the academic year is spent in university. Seems like a good alternative to have, though I would still probably prefer the split week timetable of Trinity and Maynooth.

Other than that, no info about this course. I like Galway and wouldn't mind living there at all, but it'd be a more costly option than Dublin probably. Any feedback on the course, anyone?

UCC / UL:
Haven't looked into these courses yet!

So, any opinions / details / impressions / experiences would be really helpful, to every prospective HDipper.

Thanks everyone...

Lord TSC · 30-09-2010 9:49am

Maynooth NUI
Operates a separate university day / teaching day timetable, like Trinity. Other than that, I've got no info on how the course is supposed to compare to others, or even the stipulations regarding school candidature. Must PGDE students teach at a local school, in or around the Maynooth vicinity? How would the course / workload compare?

There's a radius you've got to be inside, but it's pretty broad. I did mine in Balbriggan and I know people who did their placement in Drogheda, which is just over an hour away by car.

As far as the workload, I'm not sure how they compare. NUIM doesn't have exams at Xmas and I think the others do. To counter that though, NUIM has a block teaching period in Jan. where you spend 3 weeks in a school fulltime.

In terms of days in school (just for general info), last year it was...
NUIM: Monday and Friday in school.
Trinity: Monday morning, Thursday morning & all day Friday.
UCD: Every morning, with lectures in the afternoon.

After that, I'd say check out the Q&A topic thats stickied up the top of the board

Toto Wolfcastle · 30-09-2010 5:28pm

Thread merged with PGDE thread.

Gaeilgeoir · 01-10-2010 12:00am

I intend to apply to do the PGDE next year & would appreciate some advice on my second subject. I have a BA in Irish and Irish Folklore, a Postgraduate Diploma in Accounting and a MA in Irish.

I suppose business would probably be my most likely second subject. As it's the minor subject could I choose to do History or CSPE (I studied politics for 1 year of my BA)?

delta_bravo · 01-10-2010 8:27am

From your information there Gaeilgeoir you are probably only able to teach Irish. To teach a subject it must have taken up 30% of your credits in an undergraduate degree so that would exclude any first year subjects

Gaeilgeoir · 01-10-2010 12:17pm

It's my understanding that you can teach any subject up to Junior Cert level without having a degree in that subject. In order to apply to the PGDE I will have to name a second subject, are you saying I can't apply at all? I would have thought the Postgrad Diploma would count for something, as it's actually a highel level of qualification than a degree.

delta_bravo · 01-10-2010 11:04pm

Gaeilgeoir wrote: »

It's my understanding that you can teach any subject up to Junior Cert level without having a degree in that subject.

Anyone can teach any subject with the new Education Bill. There is no such thing as being qualified to teach something to Junior Cert level (bar Science->Phys/Chem/Biol and Business->Econ/Acc/Bus). You are either qualified to teach something or you are not

Gaeilgeoir wrote: »

In order to apply to the PGDE I will have to name a second subject, are you saying I can't apply at all? I would have thought the Postgrad Diploma would count for something, as it's actually a highel level of qualification than a degree.

You will need to ask individual universities how to manage with just 1 subject. You could perhaps do ICT. Definitely inquire with the Teaching Council what you are registered to teach and contact the colleges if/when you get a place on the course.

I doubt your postgrad diploma entitles you to teach. Look carefully at the PAC site here for specific subject recognition

ACCOUNTING

Applicants must provide officially certified evidence of satisfactory achievement in primary degree studies (or equivalent) as outlined hereunder:

* The study of Accounting as a major subject in the degree extending over the last three years and of the order of 30% at a minimum of that period.
* Details of the degree course content to show that the knowledge, skills and understanding required to teach Accounting to the highest level in post-primary education have been acquired.
* Details of degree course content where studies were modular or in a related subject area require specific assessment to determine equivalence.
* Degree studies in Accounting must have been supported by relevant Information and Communications Technology (ICT) methodology and practice.
* Explicit evidence of satisfactory achievement in the Accounting courses with at least an overall Pass result in the examinations of Accounting.

Recognition to teach Accounting at the highest level in post-primary education also confers recognition to teach Business Studies at Junior Certificate level.

Additional information (i) where greater clarity is requested or (ii) which would otherwise more fully support the application must be provided as required.

All Primary / Secondary Masters Courses - Post Q's Here Please

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