Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

eastwest · 24-09-2020 11:49am

Anyone who watched the Dail TV this morning will now understand the end game in this debate, an outcome I have often predicted. The west is again getting nothing, but that will be dressed up in a pile of reports, the likes of which we have never seen.
Eamon Ryan clearly knows little of what goes on west of the Shannon, his answers to Dara Callearey in the Dail chamber today were straight from the WOT phrasebook, all about freight on the WRC. It is clear that he hasn't read the WDC report that contradicts all that with facts, but Ryan is inspired by some higher power obviously. Yesterday he told the Dail that the rail report is being reviewed by another consultancy company, after which the review of the review will be reviewed by Eamon Ryan, who has his mind made up about freight volumes in the west according to his impassioned speech this morning, with his new transport expert friend Eamon O'Cuiv looking very pleased in the background.
So, here's what will happen. The review will be reviewed, then the Minister will review the review and find that all those experts have got it wrong. A plan will be put in place to build a railway from Foynes to some vague place called the north west, to carry some vague freight stuff that doesn't yet exist. For the next four years while the Greens have their presence in government, it will be all about freight, with the officials in DTTAS holding the line against more mad spending. In other words, nothing will be built, not a railway, not a greenway, and probably no further improvements in the N17 in case that might impact on the railway that isn't coming, but just might if we win the lotto.
But there will be reports, lots of reports, and for that we should be grateful.

Muckyboots · 24-09-2020 12:04pm

eastwest wrote: »

Anyone who watched the Dail TV this morning will now understand the end game in this debate, an outcome I have often predicted. The west is again getting nothing, but that will be dressed up in a pile of reports, the likes of which we have never seen.
Eamon Ryan clearly knows little of what goes on west of the Shannon, his answers to Dara Callearey in the Dail chamber today were straight from the WOT phrasebook, all about freight on the WRC. It is clear that he hasn't read the WDC report that contradicts all that with facts, but Ryan is inspired by some higher power obviously. Yesterday he told the Dail that the rail report is being reviewed by another consultancy company, after which the review of the review will be reviewed by Eamon Ryan, who has his mind made up about freight volumes in the west according to his impassioned speech this morning, with his new transport expert friend Eamon O'Cuiv looking very pleased in the background.
So, here's what will happen. The review will be reviewed, then the Minister will review the review and find that all those experts have got it wrong. A plan will be put in place to build a railway from Foynes to some vague place called the north west, to carry some vague freight stuff that doesn't yet exist. For the next four years while the Greens have their presence in government, it will be all about freight, with the officials in DTTAS holding the line against more mad spending. In other words, nothing will be built, not a railway, not a greenway, and probably no further improvements in the N17 in case that might impact on the railway that isn't coming, but just might if we win the lotto.
But there will be reports, lots of reports, and for that we should be grateful.

Eamon Ryan is a Green Minister for Transport. Idealist. Big picture guy. Not fiscally retrained. Planetary outlook and committed to meeting carbon emmision targets. Why would anyone be surprised he would speak in favour of rail? The question is, given all these attributes, can he be convinced to incorporated a cycle network into the plans while project rail either progresses or stagnates? I personally think he can.

eastwest · 24-09-2020 12:27pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

Eamon Ryan is a Green Minister for Transport. Idealist. Big picture guy. Not fiscally retrained. Planetary outlook and committed to meeting carbon emmision targets. Why would anyone be surprised he would speak in favour of rail? The question is, given all these attributes, can he be convinced to incorporated a cycle network into the plans while project rail either progresses or stagnates? I personally think he can.

He won't get the money for it, but that's not the point. Very few councillors in galway or mayo will now vote for any greenway project on this route, because they will believe that railway nonsense. What he has done is to put the brakes on the greenway project for another decade, while doing nothing for rail either. He can walk away and say he is all in favour of public transport, but the reality is that in this case he has just introduced another stalemate situation.
This is one of the longest running threads on Boards.ie, and in another ten years it will still be running, with nothing changed on the ground. It would be great if by some magic they got money for a railway, and actually built it and put a greenway alongside it, but that can't happen because there is no possibility of funding it from any source.
But at least the Dublin 4 types will have to find another playground, so that's some consolation.

ShaneC1600 · 24-09-2020 12:49pm

eastwest wrote: »

Anyone who watched the Dail TV this morning will now understand the end game in this debate, an outcome I have often predicted. The west is again getting nothing, but that will be dressed up in a pile of reports, the likes of which we have never seen.
Eamon Ryan clearly knows little of what goes on west of the Shannon, his answers to Dara Callearey in the Dail chamber today were straight from the WOT phrasebook, all about freight on the WRC. It is clear that he hasn't read the WDC report that contradicts all that with facts, but Ryan is inspired by some higher power obviously.

Which WDC report are you referring to here? I remember reading some reports from the WDC over the years that concluded there was merit in improving the rail network for the benefit of freight in the west. Could be a long time ago though.

The terms of reference for the rail review did state the report would be reviewed prior to publication so nothing new there.

westtip · 24-09-2020 3:04pm

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Which WDC report are you referring to here? .

The WDC commissioned the report into Rail Freight and the Western Region in March of 2015at a cost of €17,000. The report was produced by a UK based rail consultant Intermodality which has been involved in several rail freight projects in the UK. The report was released on the WDC.ie website on 17th December 2015, sorry but I cannot find a link to the report now but search www.wdc.ie

The report focused on two levels of Forecast on future freight volumes: Realistic and Speculative

The report highlighted the number of freight trains per day going in and out of the West of Ireland at about 4 per day (4.3.17 page 46, 2 inbound trains 2 outbound), which is hardly enough to justify new railway lines.

The report did what it called extensive “bottom up” analysis involvung trade research with industry in the region showed that there is potential for about another 2 freight trains per day in and out of the region. The report also covers what is called “speculative freight increase” to a level of 10-14 freight trains a day by 2050. It was the kind of speculation that has to be taken for what it is, pure speculation, there is no realistic reason to accept that rail freight to and from the West of Ireland is going to increase fourfold anytime in the near to medium future.

There was concern that this speculation may lead to optimism from those who still believe in the Western Rail Corridor concept; It seems Minister Ryan is a believer in fairytale speculation.

blackwhite · 24-09-2020 3:25pm

westtip wrote: »

The WDC commissioned the report into Rail Freight and the Western Region in March of 2015at a cost of €17,000. The report was produced by a UK based rail consultant Intermodality which has been involved in several rail freight projects in the UK. The report was released on the WDC.ie website on 17th December 2015, sorry but I cannot find a link to the report now but search www.wdc.ie

The report focused on two levels of Forecast on future freight volumes: Realistic and Speculative

The report highlighted the number of freight trains per day going in and out of the West of Ireland at about 4 per day (4.3.17 page 46, 2 inbound trains 2 outbound), which is hardly enough to justify new railway lines.

The report did what it called extensive “bottom up” analysis involvung trade research with industry in the region showed that there is potential for about another 2 freight trains per day in and out of the region. The report also covers what is called “speculative freight increase” to a level of 10-14 freight trains a day by 2050. It was the kind of speculation that has to be taken for what it is, pure speculation, there is no realistic reason to accept that rail freight to and from the West of Ireland is going to increase fourfold anytime in the near to medium future.

There was concern that this speculation may lead to optimism from those who still believe in the Western Rail Corridor concept; It seems Minister Ryan is a believer in fairytale speculation.

Dublin Port - the busiest port in the country and the best connected to the rail network (spur to the port only 2km from mainlines) - never manages to break 30 trains per week. Over half the trains are Tara Mines.

IWT bring rail-freight from the West to Dublin already.

Nearly all sea-freight from Ireland travels east - to either the UK or to Europe. It is faster and cheaper to sail a cargo vessel from Dublin to either the UK or the Continent than it is to sail the same vessel from Limerick. We already have the rail connections to Dublin - so if the demand for rail-frieght was really there, then it would be already pushing for more volumes on the IWT services to Dublin.

Rail Freight for purely within Ireland simply doesn't stack up from an efficiency point of view, as the country is simply too small. The rail journeys aren't of sufficient distances to generate the efficiencies needed to justify rail.

marno21 · 24-09-2020 10:28pm

From Eamon Ryan:

With regard to the western rail corridor study, I will be answering questions on the same issue tomorrow during priority and oral questions. I hope that we can publish that report shortly. I am waiting for a further report from JASPERS, an international organisation which is reviewing the review and I am reviewing it myself in a slightly wider context. In a series of meetings that I have had with people interested in the project I referred to the fact that if we just look at this in the context of a section of rail line between Claremorris and Athenry, that is a relatively narrative focus. One has to look at a slightly wider focus as to what is the economic potential for development of the west and north-west of the country and the infrastructure that would best suit that purpose. It is not just to my mind a question of whether we need a commuter rail service between Tuam or Claremorris into Galway city or to Athenry. The real consideration is a slightly wider one with regard to the economic development of the whole north-west region and what infrastructure may support that.

Included in that, I am particularly interested in what the potential is for rail freight developments in the western region and if we are looking at a changed policy as to promoting rather than restricting rail freight, which I think has been the case for the last 30 or 40 years. I cannot go into the details of that here now but I look forward to engaging with the Deputy. My focus at the moment is looking at that aspect of it and looking at it in a wider regional context, as well as looking at the content of the two reports he mentioned.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2020-09-23a.271

westtip · 24-09-2020 10:59pm

Two trains a day max. Lets build a new railway line to cope with the demand! After all these years I have to say I am tempted to say let them get on with it.

L1011 · 24-09-2020 11:45pm

You can read Ryan's response there as: the report has shown that passenger traffic is completely unviable, but I'm scrabbling to try put a spin on it to keep the issue alive.

Diverted freight flows will never make a case for reopening at the exchequers expense.

Pete_Cavan · 25-09-2020 7:03am

marno21 wrote: »

From Eamon Ryan:

In a series of meetings that I have had with people interested in the project I referred to the fact that if we just look at this in the context of a section of rail line between Claremorris and Athenry, that is a relatively narrative focus. One has to look at a slightly wider focus as to what is the economic potential for development of the west and north-west of the country and the infrastructure that would best suit that purpose. It is not just to my mind a question of whether we need a commuter rail service between Tuam or Claremorris into Galway city or to Athenry. The real consideration is a slightly wider one with regard to the economic development of the whole north-west region and what infrastructure may support that.

Included in that, I am particularly interested in what the potential is for rail freight developments in the western region and if we are looking at a changed policy as to promoting rather than restricting rail freight, which I think has been the case for the last 30 or 40 years.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2020-09-23a.271

What a load of crap. Freight is/should have been considered in the report, it is clearly mentioned in the PPQ document and therefore should be within the terms of reference for the report;

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_docs.asp?PID=136152&LID=150224&AllowPrint=1

These services will involve the undertaking of an appraisal and the appraisal must ensure that all relevant appraisal processes and value-for-money tests required under the PSC and CAF are fully complied with. Given that the level of investment involved in the WRC proposal will exceed €20 million in total cost, the Consultant will be required to complete the following tasks as part of the preliminary and detailed appraisal stages and as part of the preparation of the Business Case for the proposed project.
Stage 1 - Preliminary Appraisal
Stage 2 - Detailed Appraisal (incorporating Appraisal Plan & Assumptions, Demand Projections for Passenger & Freight, Quantified Impacts, Qualitative Impacts etc.)

It looks already like the report is being discredited by certain people, presumably because it doesn't say what they wanted it to say. I wonder who these "people interested in the project" are Ryan has been meeting with and if there are any records from these meetings. Wouldn't be hard to sell him a bag of magic beans on this project, tell him there will be salad growing from window boxes on the train too!

We don't need another report to tell us that spending €150m to create an alternative route for freight trains which already have an operational route is a waste of money. Plough some of that money into strategic parts of the existing network if you want to improve the freight offering.

westtip · 25-09-2020 9:42am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

What a load of crap. Freight is/should have been considered in the report, it is clearly mentioned in the PPQ document and therefore should be within the terms of reference for the report;

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_docs.asp?PID=136152&LID=150224&AllowPrint=1

It looks already like the report is being discredited by certain people, presumably because it doesn't say what they wanted it to say. I wonder who these "people interested in the project" are Ryan has been meeting with and if there are any records from these meetings. Wouldn't be hard to sell him a bag of magic beans on this project, tell him there will be salad growing from window boxes on the train too!

We don't need another report to tell us that spending €150m to create an alternative route for freight trains which already have an operational route is a waste of money. Plough some of that money into strategic parts of the existing network if you want to improve the freight offering.

Of course all the above is true but you have to hand it to WOT and the cronies at Intercounty railway committee and the Mayo TDs who have a fixation with this railway that they have pulled the fastest one in history. Get onto Ryan and tell him what you think he now needs to be bombarded with objections to his thinking.

Muckyboots · 25-09-2020 10:07am

westtip wrote: »

Of course all the above is true but you have to hand it to WOT and the cronies at Intercounty railway committee and the Mayo TDs who have a fixation with this railway that they have pulled the fastest one in history. Get onto Ryan and tell him what you think he now needs to be bombarded with objections to his thinking.

Quiet back channelling zoom meetings, studies/reports/facts and smart political lobbying has turned the Green Minister's head. No surprise there. Although an understandable reaction, bombarding him with objections is exactly what WOT will expect and hope for next.

ShaneC1600 · 25-09-2020 10:11am

westtip wrote: »

Of course all the above is true but you have to hand it to WOT and the cronies at Intercounty railway committee and the Mayo TDs who have a fixation with this railway that they have pulled the fastest one in history. Get onto Ryan and tell him what you think he now needs to be bombarded with objections to his thinking.

And of course bombarded with support for reinstating the railway along with double tracking of the Galway to Athenry line as part of an overall plan of action for the west and north west.

Greaney · 25-09-2020 11:36am

westtip wrote: »

Get onto Ryan and tell him what you think he now needs to be bombarded with objections to his thinking.

It's bike week this week. I thought that the Quiet Man Greenways best strategy would have been to organise a cycling event to show their capacity to deliver a well used cycling trail.

Bombard politicians :rolleyes:

25-09-2020 3:45pm

Greaney wrote: »

Bombard politicians :rolleyes:

How dare the electorate lobby their representatives, the nerve!

Greaney · 25-09-2020 7:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

How dare the electorate lobby their representatives, the nerve!

What ever you kids are calling it nowadays.... either way, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar

marno21 · 25-09-2020 10:19pm

Further more detailed debate on this in the Dail yesterday

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2020-09-24a.54

Del.Monte · 25-09-2020 11:23pm

More talk, more pontificating and worthy aspirations but when will see work started on rebuilding the line. Don't hold your breath.

westtip · 26-09-2020 9:04am

I have mentioned the freight issue in various meetings I have had with several Deputies. I did so because, if we try to win this project on the basis of it being a commuting route from Tuam or Claremorris to Galway, an argument based on those numbers will be difficult to win.

Eamon Ryan in the Dail this week

Rail freight does win the case and the Minister does not have to doubt his belief in it. Deputy Canney and I emphasised that point when we spoke to him at the West-On-Track meeting some weeks ago. A total of 1,000 freight trains a year leave Mayo to serve Dublin and Waterford ports.

Dara Calleary lying in the Dail this week, the number of freight trains is possibly half that number he is quoting inbound and outbound.

The debate on these issues has to be reasoned and there must be an economic argument behind it. As I understand it, Iarnród Éireann has commissioned a study by AECOM to look at the future of rail freight

. Eamon Ryan in Dail telling us about another bloody report!

One cannot proceed unless one has a good business case. There needs to be the same for rail investment in the west.

another one from ER.

Clearly the EY report has canned the WRC and now they are flapping around with ridiculous theories on freight playing to the weakness of the greens on this issue. The great thing about this debate is that it makes me laugh so much it is like the christmas pantomine season is here all the time. go read this debate the link is in post above it really is comical.

Muckyboots · 26-09-2020 11:46am

westtip wrote: »

Eamon Ryan in the Dail this week

Dara Calleary lying in the Dail this week, the number of freight trains is possibly half that number he is quoting inbound and outbound.

. Eamon Ryan in Dail telling us about another bloody report!

another one from ER.

Clearly the EY report has canned the WRC and now they are flapping around with ridiculous theories on freight playing to the weakness of the greens on this issue. The great thing about this debate is that it makes me laugh so much it is like the christmas pantomine season is here all the time. go read this debate the link is in post above it really is comical.

Eamon is now holding hands with WOT. This is a put up or shut up moment for them both. Even the most ardent anoraks seriously doubt it will happen. The WRC will make a fine wilderness and quiet walking trail for many years to come.

Muckyboots · 26-09-2020 12:30pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

More talk, more pontificating and worthy aspirations but when will see work started on rebuilding the line. Don't hold your breath.

It should be rail, it'll never be rail, it can't be a greenway.

Del.Monte · 27-09-2020 9:33am

Muckyboots wrote: »

It should be rail, it'll never be rail, it can't be a greenway.

Is there anything to be said for another report?

westtip · 27-09-2020 11:51am

Del.Monte wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for another report?

Promise of yet another report but this time into freight only (even though the EY report was supposed to cover this issue in its business case), will slow things down further. Eamon Ocuiv and Dara Calleary are constantly trying to undermine Micheal Martin, they want a general election so they can have an SF/FF government. They both know if they delay this whole thing again by throwing in the freight issue they will slow it up again. SF support the WRC it is kind of an ideology issue about a train to Derry from Cork. Colman O'Raghalaigh of WOT is also from the SF bloodstream. Ryan is turning out to be a weak minister, just like his predecessor he is an intelligent man and knows full well he cannot carry the WRC argument on passenger arguments he will probably go back to cabinet and ask that the whole thing is deferred until the apparent new report by AECom on freight comes out, that will never happen, the government may last 2 or 3 more years then an election gives a different shape. Delay the greenway idea as long as possible until Sinn Fein are in Government seems to be the strategy. I only keep at this because I find the arguments for rail so bloody stupid (and the freight argument has really taken the biscuit) I don't want to see public money wasted, however in 6 years time I will have the rail pass so I might be glad of it then.

mayo.mick · 27-09-2020 1:20pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for another report?

Has anyone kept count of the number of *reports* in the last 20 years alone?

seekers · 27-09-2020 1:48pm

The connaught telegraph has a good article inn The WRC this week

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2020/09/26/how-a-port-in-limerick-has-become-central-to-moves-to-reopen-the-western-rail-corridor/

westtip · 27-09-2020 9:38pm

seekers wrote: »

The connaught telegraph has a good article inn The WRC this week

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2020/09/26/how-a-port-in-limerick-has-become-central-to-moves-to-reopen-the-western-rail-corridor/

So on this theory we build the WRC on the basis there is an average of one and half trains a day leaving Mayo for Waterford or Dublin, where is all this freight coming from?

Isambard · 27-09-2020 9:59pm

yep Europe might well be moving towards railfreight but they tend to use electric locos not ancient smoky old diesels.

ezstreet5 · 28-09-2020 5:31pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0928/1168001-bus-eireann-expressway/

The company also said that the X51 Express Route from Galway to Limerick which has been suspended since March is being formally ended and will not be returning.

Always hate to see public transit services cut, whether bus or rail.

seekers · 29-09-2020 6:50am

ezstreet5 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0928/1168001-bus-eireann-expressway/

Always hate to see public transit services cut, whether bus or rail.

That is a huge announcement. It will take some time to think It through

Muckyboots · 30-09-2020 4:52pm

https://www.mayonews.ie/news/35897-ministerial-support-for-western-rail-corridor-momentous
"Momentous" ...might be a bit of an over reaction to a Minister announcing yet another review. But sure if that's what gets you high!

westtip · 30-09-2020 11:18pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

https://www.mayonews.ie/news/35897-ministerial-support-for-western-rail-corridor-momentous
"Momentous" ...might be a bit of an over reaction to a Minister announcing yet another review. But sure if that's what gets you high!

The bit I love is the claim there are 1,000 trains a year leaving Mayo for Dublin and Waterford everyday. Back in 2015 a report by the Western Development Commission who have always been very West on Track orientated said there 2-3 inbound and outbound trains a day. that's about 1 to 1.5 outbound trains a day.

Is the genius golfer of Ballina telling us outbound volumes had more than doubled since 2015, me thinks he is exaggerating and telling porkie pies to further support a project for his own constituency. we need to find out the facts.

ezstreet5 · 01-10-2020 10:41pm

Of course there are a variety of opinions from a variety of stakeholders. One of which is from the Irish Exporters Association, which provide the following pre-budget submission for Budget 2021: https://irishexporters.ie/submissions/iea-submission-2021-pre-budget-submission/

Of importance are today's comments on p. 6:

Developing rail networks: We welcome recent comments made by the Minister for Climate Action, Communication Networks and Transport, about the independent review of and consideration given to the potential reopening of phases 2 and 3 of the western rail corridor. The IEA believes that increased rail freight capacity should play an important and significant part of our climate change agenda. The further expansion of rail freight also has the potential to contribute to Ireland’s regional development.

Greaney · 02-10-2020 9:47am

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Of course there are a variety of opinions from a variety of stakeholders. One of which is from the Irish Exporters Association, which provide the following pre-budget submission for Budget 2021: https://irishexporters.ie/submissions/iea-submission-2021-pre-budget-submission/

Of importance are today's comments on p. 6:

When I attended a meeting a couple of years ago to explore possible green way routes between Tuam & Athenry the issue of using the railway line came up. We were advised not to pursue that route because it was earmarked to be re-opened. The folk who wanted to use the rail route simply wouldn't' believe it, and if they 'fought' hard enough it would happen.

In subsequent conversations with various politicians, most of them agreed, the railway line was ear marked to be re-opened.

I've been involved in enough campaigns to know there's no point trying to make something happen that won't and I've learnt enough to know, if you can find an alternative, that still delivers, it's a big win.

I think it's wise to explore alternatives and I think if we can get a trail to Abbeyknockmoy, that'd be amazing!! There's already a cycle path from there to the top of the road to Ballyglunin....

westtip · 02-10-2020 10:07am

Greaney wrote: »

In subsequent conversations with various politicians, most of them agreed, the railway line was ear marked to be re-opened.

...

It depends which politicians you were having your subsequent conversations with I guess. We only hear what we want to hear. But I do know Paschal Donohoe, Leo Varadkar, and Micheal Martin have all said the exact opposite, the the railway line will not re-open. on that basis it is well worth fighting for. A few words in the Dail does not mean the Minister has any chance of getting this railway re-opened and the Minister simply may not have heard the alternative arguments yet. Maybe he will some day, hopefully soon.

02-10-2020 10:12am

Greaney wrote: »

I think if we can get a trail to Abbeyknockmoy, that'd be amazing!! There's already a cycle path from there to the top of the road to Ballyglunin....

Aim higher

westtip · 02-10-2020 10:15am

Deleted User wrote: »

Aim higher

Exactly, it is full blown trail all the way from Enniskillen to Athenry we are shooting for. Not 1.25 freight trains a day diverted from Ballina in the middle of the night trundling through Tuam.

intellectual dosser · 02-10-2020 10:45am

westtip wrote: »

Exactly, it is full blown trail all the way from Enniskillen to Athenry we are shooting for. Not 1.25 freight trains a day diverted from Ballina in the middle of the night trundling through Tuam.

Comparing the big picture greenway case against a single isolated rail case.

How novel.

Muckyboots · 02-10-2020 11:05am

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Comparing the big picture greenway case against a single isolated rail case.

How novel.

"isolated" is a good choice of word to be fair.

Greaney · 02-10-2020 1:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Aim higher

With all due respect,I don't see much on this thread with a clear achievable 'aim' anywhere...

I see ye're cherry picking my comments and taking them out of context.

Obviously we were looking towards linking to Tuam etc., and assume those communities along the way build on what the previous communities develop. We're not doing this on our own, other communities have to be interested. We are interested in intersecting with rail to open up to folks of various abilities

westtip · 02-10-2020 2:30pm

Greaney wrote: »

With all due respect,I don't see much on this thread with a clear achievable 'aim' anywhere...

I see ye're cherry picking my comments and taking them out of context.

Obviously we were looking towards linking to Tuam etc., and assume those communities along the way build on what the previous communities develop. We're not doing this on our own, other communities have to be interested. We are interested in intersecting with rail to open up to folks of various abilities

There are two clear achievable aims here. The greenway is perfectly achievable.

Stopping the greenway at all costs is perfectly achievable and recent declarations show this is now the most likely achievable aim to show success, preventing tourism infrastructure and continuing to live a piped dream is far more important to some.

The railway is totally unachievable (well 99% sure unachievable) but as always said I may be proven wrong, I have been on many occasions in my life

02-10-2020 5:59pm

Greaney wrote: »

I see ye're cherry picking my comments and taking them out of context.

The rest of your post referred to meetings that may or may not have happened and conversations with politicians who won't be named who said some things which were never recorded but all of which aligns perfectly with your personal view.

Nothing to do with context

ezstreet5 · 02-10-2020 9:08pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The rest of your post referred to meetings that may or may not have happened and conversations with politicians who won't be named who said some things which were never recorded but all of which aligns perfectly with your personal view.

Nothing to do with context

If I may interpret the essence of the original post, I believe it was, "If the WRC is not converted to a greenway for whatever reason, what is the alternative plan of attack for developing walking and cycling infrastructure and greenways in our communities?" The answer cannot be, "Think bigger and just build a greenway on the WRC." What is the "think wider" answer? For example, one possible outcome is that the WRC advances to Claremorris only, and not beyond. So can the "Quiet Man Greenway" be re-routed to Cong, Ballinrobe, Claremorris, and then on to Collooney and Enniskillen? What if Athenry gets the Galway-Dublin routing, is there another way of connecting to Tuam (e.g., along the Clare River through Corofin)? Can we do anything interesting with the remnant of the Attymon spur, which gets us halfway to Loughrea?

Greaney · 02-10-2020 9:19pm

ezstreet5 wrote: »

If I may interpret the essence of the original post, I believe it was, "If the WRC is not converted to a greenway for whatever reason, what is the alternative plan of attack for developing walking and cycling infrastructure and greenways in our communities?" The answer cannot be, "Think bigger and just build a greenway on the WRC." What is the "think wider" answer? For example, one possible outcome is that the WRC advances to Claremorris only, and not beyond. So can the "Quiet Man Greenway" be re-routed to Cong, Ballinrobe, Claremorris, and then on to Collooney and Enniskillen? What if Athenry gets the Galway-Dublin routing, is there another way of connecting to Tuam (e.g., along the Clare River through Corofin)? Can we do anything interesting with the remnant of the Attymon spur, which gets us halfway to Loughrea?

Thank you... yes, I don't understand how that wasn't picked up....

#obtuse

Muckyboots · 02-10-2020 10:08pm

ezstreet5 wrote: »

What if Athenry gets the Galway-Dublin routing, is there another way of connecting to Tuam (e.g., along the Clare River through Corofin)?

Only riparian rights there. Would require CPO's from start to finish. Access to the river bank for anglers is by permission of the landowner. Unfortunately, it's a non runner.

ezstreet5 · 02-10-2020 10:18pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

Only riparian rights there. Would require CPO's from start to finish. Access to the river bank for anglers is by permission of the landowner. Unfortunately, it's a non runner.

It's my experience that landowners are not opposed to CPOs in the narrow sense. Rather, it's CPOs that create severance of landholding that tend to annoy.

02-10-2020 10:59pm

A path along the river would be attractive for much of the year but wouldn't be suitable due to flooding. It would also require lots of small bridges where smaller rivers or drains join the river.

The railway path follows a relatively high and dry line.

ezstreet5 · 02-10-2020 11:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

A path along the river would be attractive for much of the year but wouldn't be suitable due to flooding. It would also require lots of small bridges where smaller rivers or drains join the river.

The railway path follows a relatively high and dry line.

Perhaps, but the question is what if the "high and dry" railway path returns to an active railway, and we still want a greenway?

Greaney · 03-10-2020 7:39am

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Perhaps, but the question is what if the "high and dry" railway path returns to an active railway, and we still want a greenway?

Indeed. I imagine is, if the railway is brought back into use, do the campaigners for a greenway have a plan 'b' ?

https://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/117361/western-rail-corridor-under-independent-review-dillon?fbclid=IwAR28W_p1S77k6YX6TrsjsGfvcKMA3FA7oAvL9auHDElQ2z0OWCQWUjVSCrw#.X3ekqzjZfMw.facebook

Muckyboots · 03-10-2020 9:50am

Greaney wrote: »

Indeed. I imagine is, if the railway is brought back into use, do the campaigners for a greenway have a plan 'b' ?

https://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/117361/western-rail-corridor-under-independent-review-dillon?fbclid=IwAR28W_p1S77k6YX6TrsjsGfvcKMA3FA7oAvL9auHDElQ2z0OWCQWUjVSCrw#.X3ekqzjZfMw.facebook

You could pose the reverse of that question to rail campaigners. The answer in their case is "no, leave the line derelict"". That's never going to be accepted.

Greaney · 13-10-2020 2:53pm

The plans for the Western Rail Corridor, with regard to securing EU funding are perhaps a lot bigger than folk realize. This is an extract from an article in the Western People

Minister Ryan said: “We need to consider this matter, not just as it relates to the section of the rail line between Athenry and Claremorris, but in the wider regional context. I would go ever further south and add to this the potential reopening of the Foynes freight rail line, which I understand is a prerequisite if Foynes is to get any support in developing as a European TEN-T international port, in that the port, in any such development, must have rail freight capability. That makes sense because Europe is moving towards rail freight as a significant part of our climate change agenda.”

In its submission, the IEA states: “It is becoming increasingly apparent and ever more urgent that Irish freight will be snarled up in any delays that occur in British ports from January 1 next, whatever the outcome of [Brexit] negotiations. Britain is not ready for the transport challenges of Brexit. Alternatives to the landbridge using direct shipping from Irish ports to France and the Netherlands will be required to keep our supply chains flowing.”

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

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