Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

What a load of crap. Freight is/should have been considered in the report, it is clearly mentioned in the PPQ document and therefore should be within the terms of reference for the report;

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_docs.asp?PID=136152&LID=150224&AllowPrint=1

It looks already like the report is being discredited by certain people, presumably because it doesn't say what they wanted it to say. I wonder who these "people interested in the project" are Ryan has been meeting with and if there are any records from these meetings. Wouldn't be hard to sell him a bag of magic beans on this project, tell him there will be salad growing from window boxes on the train too!

We don't need another report to tell us that spending €150m to create an alternative route for freight trains which already have an operational route is a waste of money. Plough some of that money into strategic parts of the existing network if you want to improve the freight offering.

Of course all the above is true but you have to hand it to WOT and the cronies at Intercounty railway committee and the Mayo TDs who have a fixation with this railway that they have pulled the fastest one in history. Get onto Ryan and tell him what you think he now needs to be bombarded with objections to his thinking.

westtip wrote: »

Of course all the above is true but you have to hand it to WOT and the cronies at Intercounty railway committee and the Mayo TDs who have a fixation with this railway that they have pulled the fastest one in history. Get onto Ryan and tell him what you think he now needs to be bombarded with objections to his thinking.

Quiet back channelling zoom meetings, studies/reports/facts and smart political lobbying has turned the Green Minister's head. No surprise there. Although an understandable reaction, bombarding him with objections is exactly what WOT will expect and hope for next.

ShaneC1600

westtip wrote: »

Of course all the above is true but you have to hand it to WOT and the cronies at Intercounty railway committee and the Mayo TDs who have a fixation with this railway that they have pulled the fastest one in history. Get onto Ryan and tell him what you think he now needs to be bombarded with objections to his thinking.

And of course bombarded with support for reinstating the railway along with double tracking of the Galway to Athenry line as part of an overall plan of action for the west and north west.

westtip wrote: »

Get onto Ryan and tell him what you think he now needs to be bombarded with objections to his thinking.

It's bike week this week. I thought that the Quiet Man Greenways best strategy would have been to organise a cycling event to show their capacity to deliver a well used cycling trail.

Bombard politicians :rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

Greaney wrote: »

Bombard politicians :rolleyes:

How dare the electorate lobby their representatives, the nerve!

Deleted User wrote: »

How dare the electorate lobby their representatives, the nerve!

What ever you kids are calling it nowadays.... either way, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar

marno21

Further more detailed debate on this in the Dail yesterday

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2020-09-24a.54

Del.Monte

More talk, more pontificating and worthy aspirations but when will see work started on rebuilding the line. Don't hold your breath.

I have mentioned the freight issue in various meetings I have had with several Deputies. I did so because, if we try to win this project on the basis of it being a commuting route from Tuam or Claremorris to Galway, an argument based on those numbers will be difficult to win.

Eamon Ryan in the Dail this week

Rail freight does win the case and the Minister does not have to doubt his belief in it. Deputy Canney and I emphasised that point when we spoke to him at the West-On-Track meeting some weeks ago. A total of 1,000 freight trains a year leave Mayo to serve Dublin and Waterford ports.

Dara Calleary lying in the Dail this week, the number of freight trains is possibly half that number he is quoting inbound and outbound.

The debate on these issues has to be reasoned and there must be an economic argument behind it. As I understand it, Iarnród Éireann has commissioned a study by AECOM to look at the future of rail freight

. Eamon Ryan in Dail telling us about another bloody report!

One cannot proceed unless one has a good business case. There needs to be the same for rail investment in the west.

another one from ER.

Clearly the EY report has canned the WRC and now they are flapping around with ridiculous theories on freight playing to the weakness of the greens on this issue. The great thing about this debate is that it makes me laugh so much it is like the christmas pantomine season is here all the time. go read this debate the link is in post above it really is comical.

westtip wrote: »

Eamon Ryan in the Dail this week

Dara Calleary lying in the Dail this week, the number of freight trains is possibly half that number he is quoting inbound and outbound.

. Eamon Ryan in Dail telling us about another bloody report!

another one from ER.

Clearly the EY report has canned the WRC and now they are flapping around with ridiculous theories on freight playing to the weakness of the greens on this issue. The great thing about this debate is that it makes me laugh so much it is like the christmas pantomine season is here all the time. go read this debate the link is in post above it really is comical.

Eamon is now holding hands with WOT. This is a put up or shut up moment for them both. Even the most ardent anoraks seriously doubt it will happen. The WRC will make a fine wilderness and quiet walking trail for many years to come.

Del.Monte wrote: »

More talk, more pontificating and worthy aspirations but when will see work started on rebuilding the line. Don't hold your breath.

It should be rail, it'll never be rail, it can't be a greenway.

Del.Monte

Muckyboots wrote: »

It should be rail, it'll never be rail, it can't be a greenway.

Is there anything to be said for another report?

Del.Monte wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for another report?

Promise of yet another report but this time into freight only (even though the EY report was supposed to cover this issue in its business case), will slow things down further. Eamon Ocuiv and Dara Calleary are constantly trying to undermine Micheal Martin, they want a general election so they can have an SF/FF government. They both know if they delay this whole thing again by throwing in the freight issue they will slow it up again. SF support the WRC it is kind of an ideology issue about a train to Derry from Cork. Colman O'Raghalaigh of WOT is also from the SF bloodstream. Ryan is turning out to be a weak minister, just like his predecessor he is an intelligent man and knows full well he cannot carry the WRC argument on passenger arguments he will probably go back to cabinet and ask that the whole thing is deferred until the apparent new report by AECom on freight comes out, that will never happen, the government may last 2 or 3 more years then an election gives a different shape. Delay the greenway idea as long as possible until Sinn Fein are in Government seems to be the strategy. I only keep at this because I find the arguments for rail so bloody stupid (and the freight argument has really taken the biscuit) I don't want to see public money wasted, however in 6 years time I will have the rail pass so I might be glad of it then.

mayo.mick

Del.Monte wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for another report?

Has anyone kept count of the number of *reports* in the last 20 years alone?

seekers

The connaught telegraph has a good article inn The WRC this week

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2020/09/26/how-a-port-in-limerick-has-become-central-to-moves-to-reopen-the-western-rail-corridor/

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0928/1168001-bus-eireann-expressway/

seekers wrote: »

The connaught telegraph has a good article inn The WRC this week

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2020/09/26/how-a-port-in-limerick-has-become-central-to-moves-to-reopen-the-western-rail-corridor/

So on this theory we build the WRC on the basis there is an average of one and half trains a day leaving Mayo for Waterford or Dublin, where is all this freight coming from?

Isambard

yep Europe might well be moving towards railfreight but they tend to use electric locos not ancient smoky old diesels.

ezstreet5

The company also said that the X51 Express Route from Galway to Limerick which has been suspended since March is being formally ended and will not be returning.

Always hate to see public transit services cut, whether bus or rail.

seekers

ezstreet5 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0928/1168001-bus-eireann-expressway/

Always hate to see public transit services cut, whether bus or rail.

That is a huge announcement. It will take some time to think It through

https://www.mayonews.ie/news/35897-ministerial-support-for-western-rail-corridor-momentous
"Momentous" ...might be a bit of an over reaction to a Minister announcing yet another review. But sure if that's what gets you high!

Muckyboots wrote: »

https://www.mayonews.ie/news/35897-ministerial-support-for-western-rail-corridor-momentous
"Momentous" ...might be a bit of an over reaction to a Minister announcing yet another review. But sure if that's what gets you high!

The bit I love is the claim there are 1,000 trains a year leaving Mayo for Dublin and Waterford everyday. Back in 2015 a report by the Western Development Commission who have always been very West on Track orientated said there 2-3 inbound and outbound trains a day. that's about 1 to 1.5 outbound trains a day.

Is the genius golfer of Ballina telling us outbound volumes had more than doubled since 2015, me thinks he is exaggerating and telling porkie pies to further support a project for his own constituency. we need to find out the facts.

ezstreet5

Of course there are a variety of opinions from a variety of stakeholders. One of which is from the Irish Exporters Association, which provide the following pre-budget submission for Budget 2021: https://irishexporters.ie/submissions/iea-submission-2021-pre-budget-submission/

Of importance are today's comments on p. 6:

Developing rail networks: We welcome recent comments made by the Minister for Climate Action, Communication Networks and Transport, about the independent review of and consideration given to the potential reopening of phases 2 and 3 of the western rail corridor. The IEA believes that increased rail freight capacity should play an important and significant part of our climate change agenda. The further expansion of rail freight also has the potential to contribute to Ireland’s regional development.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Of course there are a variety of opinions from a variety of stakeholders. One of which is from the Irish Exporters Association, which provide the following pre-budget submission for Budget 2021: https://irishexporters.ie/submissions/iea-submission-2021-pre-budget-submission/

Of importance are today's comments on p. 6:

When I attended a meeting a couple of years ago to explore possible green way routes between Tuam & Athenry the issue of using the railway line came up. We were advised not to pursue that route because it was earmarked to be re-opened. The folk who wanted to use the rail route simply wouldn't' believe it, and if they 'fought' hard enough it would happen.

In subsequent conversations with various politicians, most of them agreed, the railway line was ear marked to be re-opened.

I've been involved in enough campaigns to know there's no point trying to make something happen that won't and I've learnt enough to know, if you can find an alternative, that still delivers, it's a big win.

I think it's wise to explore alternatives and I think if we can get a trail to Abbeyknockmoy, that'd be amazing!! There's already a cycle path from there to the top of the road to Ballyglunin....

Greaney wrote: »

In subsequent conversations with various politicians, most of them agreed, the railway line was ear marked to be re-opened.

...

It depends which politicians you were having your subsequent conversations with I guess. We only hear what we want to hear. But I do know Paschal Donohoe, Leo Varadkar, and Micheal Martin have all said the exact opposite, the the railway line will not re-open. on that basis it is well worth fighting for. A few words in the Dail does not mean the Minister has any chance of getting this railway re-opened and the Minister simply may not have heard the alternative arguments yet. Maybe he will some day, hopefully soon.

[Deleted User]

Greaney wrote: »

I think if we can get a trail to Abbeyknockmoy, that'd be amazing!! There's already a cycle path from there to the top of the road to Ballyglunin....

Aim higher

Deleted User wrote: »

Aim higher

Exactly, it is full blown trail all the way from Enniskillen to Athenry we are shooting for. Not 1.25 freight trains a day diverted from Ballina in the middle of the night trundling through Tuam.

intellectual dosser

westtip wrote: »

Exactly, it is full blown trail all the way from Enniskillen to Athenry we are shooting for. Not 1.25 freight trains a day diverted from Ballina in the middle of the night trundling through Tuam.

Comparing the big picture greenway case against a single isolated rail case.

How novel.

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Comparing the big picture greenway case against a single isolated rail case.

How novel.

"isolated" is a good choice of word to be fair.

Deleted User wrote: »

Aim higher

With all due respect,I don't see much on this thread with a clear achievable 'aim' anywhere...

I see ye're cherry picking my comments and taking them out of context.

Obviously we were looking towards linking to Tuam etc., and assume those communities along the way build on what the previous communities develop. We're not doing this on our own, other communities have to be interested. We are interested in intersecting with rail to open up to folks of various abilities