Ambivalent about babies

Gaeilgeoir · 22-11-2018 2:35pm

Having experienced a big wobble on my path to motherhood in the past few weeks, I now seem to be swinging back to my initial instinct that I do actually want a child. I wouldn't say my main reason is fear of regretting it if I don't, though that is certainly a factor. It's more that when I try to imagine the two alternative lives, as I have been doing a lot, there is a certain feeling of emptiness or even coldness associated with picturing my solitary carefree life as a single childless person. Whereas when I picture life with a child, there is sort of a glow of warmth about it. I realise that sounds quite waffley and believe me I am a very practical and logical person. I guess it's like that instinct though, the one telling me it's the right choice. You can't really put your finger on it or defend it with logic, you can only trust in it.

I'm still questioning it and even now, as I say I'm leaning towards motherhood, there is a huge fear still blocking the path. That is the fear of having a child who, for whatever reason, would be dependent on me for the rest of my life. I realise the risk of this is low and yet it does happen and you just have to make the best of it. I really don't want my life to be about just making the best of it though, so I'm finding it hard to accept the enormous risk and leap of faith that is demanded in choosing to become a mother.

Also, let's be honest, choosing to have a child is as selfish as choosing not to, whatever our decision it is the one we believe best for us, not for anyone else. So I think we have to be honest with our reasons too. Hence the fear of a child having a mental disability is a perfectly valid reason to choose not to take that chance. It doesn't mean I'm a horrible person, it just means I know my limits and I know what kind of life I am desperate to avoid.

For me it's easier in one way as a single person but far more complicated in many many others. For example, were I in a happy and committed relationship then I don't think I'd hesitate at all. To be consciously taking on full responsibility from the start is something that can't be done lightly though.

Gaeilgeoir · 22-11-2018 2:37pm

ChrissieH wrote: »

This is a great thread and obviously I'm extremely late in joining it because I've only just joined the forum, but it's exactly how I feel too and I really wish people would be open to talking about this in "real life" too, as it's clear from here that there are plenty of us in the same boat, but yet a lot of us feel that we're somehow wrong because of how we feel.

I'm 41 now and have had several long-term relationships, including my current one, and it was always the men who were keen to have children while I felt like I was constantly saying the same thing: "I just don't feel any desire to have them right NOW but I'm assuming some day I will want them" because like so many others here, I felt that people thought I was an evil, heartless cow when I said that I didn't want kids.
I have never felt any desire to have them, I still don't but as so many others have said, I'm so ambivalent that I decided to come off the pill last year and let fate make the decision for me, and during the past year I have had absolutely no strong reactions to getting my period or feeling fat and wondering "hmm, am I pregnant?" :-) I'm still as ambivalent as always, which worries me for all the same reasons everyone else has outlined; the fear that I will regret it when I'm older, knowing full well that if I DID have a baby this time next year, I'd be just as frustrated and bored as I would be happy and infatuated.
I have ambivalent friends who had children and are so honest, so I am living vicariously through them and I think that I know deep down in my heart that motherhood is not my purpose in life, but yet, as always, society and culture has me confused and thinking that maybe I want things that I don't actually want.

It's so confusing.

How do you feel when you look at kids or spend time with them? Actually, having asked that, I'm still not sure it should have any relevance in your decision. I'm certainly counting on the notion that it's different when they're your own!

ChrissieH · 22-11-2018 2:41pm

Gaeilgeoir, I have actually got no interest at all in spending time with kids!!! :-O
I don't ever feel broody, babies don't make me go weak and I get bored when I'm in the company of children for more than a few minutes!

Everyone says it's totally different when you have your own and my friends have said that they still wouldn't be one bit interested in other peoples' kids, they just adore their own, so I could understand that point of view cos that's just a normal reaction for me; i.e. there are people I love spending time with and people I don't, so I don't feel any differently just cos they're a certain age!

I know in my heart that I'm not a really mothery person but then I also know that I would be a really good mother and it's been said to me too, so that's also what confuses me.. I have the skills, just not the .. instinct? I dunno!

Triceratops Ballet · 22-11-2018 3:00pm

Two of my best friends have recently had their first babies, I could see them watching me holding them to see if my heart/womb would suddenly melt and I'd change my mind! I do think they're magical little beings, they're gorgeous and new and all the lovely things ppl say but they don't awaken anything in me, which tbh I was a little relieved at!

Faith · 22-11-2018 3:13pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Two of my best friends have recently had their first babies, I could see them watching me holding them to see if my heart/womb would suddenly melt and I'd change my mind! I do think they're magical little beings, they're gorgeous and new and all the lovely things ppl say but they don't awaken anything in me, which tbh I was a little relieved at!

I'm on the countdown to this. It's a matter of days for one and weeks for the other. Be very interested to see if it changes anything (I really, really doubt it will).

Foweva Awone · 22-11-2018 3:26pm

I'm 33 and have one child, he's almost 5. He lives with his dad (our relationship ended when our son was 1.)

I absolutely adore my boy and try to be the best mother I can be to him, but I am certain I won't have any more. My mental health was probably always slightly wobbly, but it crumbled completely when I had him, and I've spent most of his life in hospitals and other institutions. Things are getting back on track now, and I'm finally living independently again and even back working part-time, but I still need an awful lot of support on the mental health side of things.

Having been through all that, and knowing how bad things can get, it would sooooo not be worth the risk of ever getting pregnant again. It would be completely unfair on my son and on the potential future child. I just couldn't risk the consequences.

I do enjoy the freedom that comes with that decision being firmly made. I am in no rush to get into a new relationship anyways, but if I ever do feel ready, it's good that there's no "biological clock" to worry about. I won't feel the need to rush into anything, or to be looking for a "father figure" for my son (he already has a father!)

I'm not sure anything can prepare you for the sheer constantness of being a parent. It completely consumed and overwhelmed me - still does at times. Maybe I just wasn't cut out to be a mother - I see other women with several kids coping far better than I ever did, but sure what's the point in comparing - it's not really relevant and gets you nowhere. I love my son and am the best mother I can be to him, but even that stretches me to my limits (even though he is with his dad most of the time) - so to consider bringing another child into the equation would be pure madness!

Gaeilgeoir · 22-11-2018 3:43pm

ChrissieH wrote: »

Gaeilgeoir, I have actually got no interest at all in spending time with kids!!! :-O
I don't ever feel broody, babies don't make me go weak and I get bored when I'm in the company of children for more than a few minutes!

Everyone says it's totally different when you have your own and my friends have said that they still wouldn't be one bit interested in other peoples' kids, they just adore their own, so I could understand that point of view cos that's just a normal reaction for me; i.e. there are people I love spending time with and people I don't, so I don't feel any differently just cos they're a certain age!

I know in my heart that I'm not a really mothery person but then I also know that I would be a really good mother and it's been said to me too, so that's also what confuses me.. I have the skills, just not the .. instinct? I dunno!

Well I certainly wouldn't choose to be a mother purely based on the belief that you'd probably be good at it

If you feel no desire to have a child at all then your decision seems quite clear. I wish I were that sure of what I want, one minute I feel a strong instinct that it's the right path, the next I wonder what the hell I'm thinking. Seriously, I was just walking back to the office there telling myself how the risks must surely far outweigh the potential rewards e.g. my child could have any number of problems or I could simply discover (all too late) that I am not suited to motherhood at all. Whereas choosing not to have a child carries only the risk that you may regret it. Now granted, that regret could have a serious impact on your life but surely when it's something you cannot change then you'd just get over it?

I realise I seem to be changing my mind every five minutes, welcome to my life

ChrissieH · 22-11-2018 4:29pm

Oh I hear you. When I try to force myself to reach a set decision one way or another, I too think "God, but imagine if there was something really wrong with the child" , cos obviously at my age, there's a higher chance of that being a reality, and that's not something that I would ever see myself being good at managing, considering my lack of enthusiasm for the most basic, normal levels of childcare.
I do agree with you that I wouldn't choose to be a mother just because I know I'd be good at it, and that's actually exactly what I've said recently to people who've said "Oh but you'd be good at it" - I just say "yeah, thanks, I would be good at loads of things but I don't do them either!" :-)

It sucks that biology forces us all to have to make these decisions when we still don't feel ready. I still feel like I'm in my 20s so it's hard to reconcile that with the feeling that it's "now or never" if I do want a family. Feckin biology.

Gaeilgeoir · 22-11-2018 4:37pm

It's basically the most important decision of our lives. I'm so envious of those for whom the choice seems obvious, one way or the other. I can't say I have always wanted kids but nor can I say that I have ever been sure I didn't want them. Quite simply, I didn't really think about it up until a year ago!

I've been reading all these books and articles about choosing single motherhood, parenting and those who choose to remain childless. So far, I don't think I have found a single person I can truly relate to i.e. a single woman who has never felt strongly either way about having kids. All the stories I read about woman choosing to remain childless, they were either married or always knew they didn't want kids. Oh and 95% of them seem extremely focused on their careers, while to me work is just something you do in order to be able to pay for nice things

I have found reading these books to be useful in a way though, as I observe my own reactions and feelings in relation to what I'm reading. For example, I find myself wanting to go against what the childfree women are saying, which makes me think that I don't want to be convinced that theirs is the right choice. Again though, I don't know how much I can read into this as I still have a vague suspicion that a lot of this could be about me wanting to want a child and not necessarily about me actually wanting one.

So I don't know if it might help you to do the same, read other women's stories and see who you identify with more?

ChrissieH · 22-11-2018 5:06pm

Gaeilgeoir, I just re-read your last few posts, I had forgotten what you'd said in the earlier ones, I see that you're 32 and single, with a lovely fur baby (my favourite type!!)

I'm just wondering if you're making plans to go ahead with motherhood? I can understand what you're saying in your last post about feeling like you want to go against the childless argument, and whether that means that you DO want a child. I would interpret it the exact same way because I know how it feels to be fighting a "general" battle or taking a stance about something "hypothetical" only to realise later that it was totally connected to my own feelings about something! It did turn out to be based around fear of failure and fear of taking a risk, even though I never felt fearful as such, I just had these strong opinions that didn't have enough of a basis to be as strong as they were, if you get me, so eventually, from going to therapy, I started to see that I was actually holding myself back in certain areas simply because of fear of failure, but I had never come to that realisation up til then!
So that's just a long-winded way of me saying that if you find yourself going against the arguments to not have kids, then yes, I agree with you that you probably do want to have a child yourself but it's just not that easy to be convinced of it because you're not in the "perfect" situation to go ahead and do it.

My husband's daughter was conceived from a 1-night-stand and while I can't say that I know first-hand what it was like for that girl to be a single mother, I think I've had an interesting, different perspective about what life was/is like for everyone involved. I am so close to the situation but only emotionally invested in one person, so I feel like I can see things very rationally and it's pretty sad to be honest, for all 3 people. My husband is very soft and thought having a child was going to be the best thing that ever happened to him, but unfortunately the mother of his child seemed to expect that because she was pregnant, he was going to have a relationship with her, and never seems to have forgiven him for not wanting her. It seems to me that she's jealous of the fact that he loves his daughter but not her. Immaturity plays a huge part in it all because she was quite young and I do feel very sorry for her, getting pregnant unexpectedly like that at a young age, but it's 11 years down the line now and there's just been so much crap that it's exhausting. I strongly feel that the child's mother would be like myself, that she wouldn't necessarily have chosen motherhood - she certainly does not come across as being very maternal to my step-daughter, instead treating her like an annoying little sister one day and then like a princess the next.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising her unnecessarily, I think she's had such a tough situation to deal with but it's still the child who's being affected the most by it all. The most innocent party in the whole scenario. And don't get me wrong, my husband is far from the best father, he doesn't physically see his daughter that much anymore compared to the first 6 or 7 years, and his daughter meanwhile is like an old head on young shoulders, which I think is due to feeling responsible for her mother (who has been single all her life) and feeling like she's a hassle to her father.
It's so sad and it makes me angry TBH, I think it probably has cemented my idea that unless you're willing to be absolutely 100% committed and devoted to children, you should not have them.

Of course I know that there are thousands of totally happy single-parent families out there, I'm really just telling my story from how I see what can happen.

Gaeilgeoir · 22-11-2018 5:34pm

Ah well I happen to have a very positive view of single parent families myself as I was raised by a single mother

Never missed having a father and despite us being short on money, I never felt I wanted for anything. It's hard to say if the situation is slightly different when using donor sperm, as I would be doing. Certainly you do have to think about how you're going to explain it to the child, though there are very active support groups and resources to help with that when the time comes.

I suppose I feel that the benefit of having a partner is a safety net of sorts and hopefully someone to share the enormous responsibility. Though from experience I know you certainly can't rely on that!

This might sound silly but I think one of the reasons for me wanting to have a child is so that someone else can experience what a wonderful mother I had, as she would be helping me in the early years of my own child's life. So it's not so much about me thinking of my own legacy but more wanting to share my mother with someone, if that makes any kind of sense at all. I also think having a child would bring me closer to my family. I have nine brothers and a sister but wouldn't say I have a close relationship with any of them, for various reasons but mostly because we're just very different people and I am also such an antisocial introvert. As a mother you're forced to build a network and interact more, for the benefit of both yourself and your child. So I guess I think having a child might make me a bit more connected to the world in general, as otherwise I can definitely envisage me living a hermit-like existence which one day might well lose its charm.

Ultimately a decision like this is honestly based on what each person believes will make them happy. As I said, it's a selfish decision either way and there is no shame in that, it's hardly unreasonable to think of our own happiness. The only issue would be if you decide to have a child and then fail to give them the love and care they deserve, simply because you realise you made the wrong decision. So while you may make the decision based on your own happiness, in the event that you do decide to have a child, your happiness can no longer be your top priority once they're born. So I guess that's worth bearing in mind too!

coffeyt · 22-11-2018 5:35pm

Felt the needs to post as so many of the previous posts remind me of myself a few years ago. I had always been adamant I didn't want children, I liked them but just couldn't see me ever wanting any of my own. My friends who had them always said I was great with kids and would make a great mum but I felt I liked my life and was in a way too selfish to have children.
Luckily my husband already had a child from a previous relationship so even though he said he would have loved more with me he accepted my decision.

Roll on to me hitting 34 and like many of you those thoughts of oh its d day essentially. I realised that if I did want children I needed to seriously start thinking about it as time wasn't on my side. I still felt no urges to have any but I will admit i started to consider the 'will I regret it if I don't argument'

I discussed it with my husband and a close friend (mother of 3). One thing she said that stuck with me although very cliched was she knew people who regretted not having kids but knew no one who did regret having them.

I decided to shelve the idea for 6 months and revisit it at that stage and see how I felt. Essentially I still had no urge but at the same time when I pictured me with a child, it did give me a warm feeling if you like and the idea of having one didn't scare me senseless (as it would have a year earlier)

After the 6 months I decided to come off the pill for 12 months and let fate decide (I swear normally I am a very logical person) and if nothing happened I would go back on pill and basically it wasn't meant to be kind of thing.

The moral of the long winded story is its now 5 yrs later and I have a just turned 4 yr old boy and a soon to be 3 yr old girl and I wouldn't change it for the world.

Yes it was tough changing our lives so much when they came along but the feeling of love when I look at them and the joy I get from seeing them learn about the world and the amazement they have for just about everything is unlike anything I'd ever experienced.

At the end of the day it is a very difficult and scary decision to make whether to have children or not and each person should make that decision for themselves alone but sometimes I think life is so short that a leap of faith can be a good thing.
Best of luck with your decisions.

Gaeilgeoir · 22-11-2018 5:49pm

coffeyt wrote: »

Felt the needs to post as so many of the previous posts remind me of myself a few years ago. I had always been adamant I didn't want children, I liked them but just couldn't see me ever wanting any of my own. My friends who had them always said I was great with kids and would make a great mum but I felt I liked my life and was in a way too selfish to have children.
Luckily my husband already had a child from a previous relationship so even though he said he would have loved more with me he accepted my decision.

Roll on to me hitting 34 and like many of you those thoughts of oh its d day essentially. I realised that if I did want children I needed to seriously start thinking about it as time wasn't on my side. I still felt no urges to have any but I will admit i started to consider the 'will I regret it if I don't argument'

I discussed it with my husband and a close friend (mother of 3). One thing she said that stuck with me although very cliched was she knew people who regretted not having kids but knew no one who did regret having them.

I decided to shelve the idea for 6 months and revisit it at that stage and see how I felt. Essentially I still had no urge but at the same time when I pictured me with a child, it did give me a warm feeling if you like and the idea of having one didn't scare me senseless (as it would have a year earlier)

After the 6 months I decided to come off the pill for 12 months and let fate decide (I swear normally I am a very logical person) and if nothing happened I would go back on pill and basically it wasn't meant to be kind of thing.

The moral of the long winded story is its now 5 yrs later and I have a just turned 4 yr old boy and a soon to be 3 yr old girl and I wouldn't change it for the world.

Yes it was tough changing our lives so much when they came along but the feeling of love when I look at them and the joy I get from seeing them learn about the world and the amazement they have for just about everything is unlike anything I'd ever experienced.

At the end of the day it is a very difficult and scary decision to make whether to have children or not and each person should make that decision for themselves alone but sometimes I think life is so short that a leap of faith can be a good thing.
Best of luck with your decisions.

Thanks for sharing your experience

Funny thing is, as I started reading your post, all I was thinking was 'I hope she's not going to say that she decided not to have kids'! Similar to my reaction to the books I've been reading, basically I seem to want someone to talk me into it rather than out of it. It can't be too much of a stretch to say that this must be some indication of what I truly want right?

It's never a logical decision, that's the thing. I guess that's what I find so difficult about it. Sure if everyone really thought about what's involved in having a child then nobody would bloody do it :P Hence overthinkers and planners like me really have to battle hard to ignore the loud voices in our heads telling us we must be nuts to even consider giving up our comfortable lives. I mean it is insane really, why would we choose to give up pretty much all our free time, most of our disposable income, our freedom to travel at will and just generally the joy of being able to do whatever the hell we like?

And yet.....

coffeyt · 22-11-2018 5:55pm

I really feel like I'm talking to myself from 5 yrs ago, I had all those very same thought albeit with a partner to share the workload.

It was the 'And yet' that got me too ðŸ˜€

When I really pictured myself with a child of my own I found myself smiling and that was I think what finally made my decision, when I was honest with myself I genuinely could see myself with a child of my own whereas I could never have pictured that before.

P.s. i am also an overthinker and my friend I discussed it with even said to me that I always think a bit too much and this was a decision that thinking wouldn't solve, only feeling would. And she was right.

Triceratops Ballet · 22-11-2018 6:18pm

coffeyt wrote: »

One thing she said that stuck with me although very cliched was she knew people who regretted not having kids but knew no one who did regret having them.

The thing that bothers me about that way of thinking is that biology takes over when you have kids, very few people will be able to have the perspective after having kids to measure their own regret or absence of if accurately. They love their kids unconditionally so it's hard for them to objectively look at the situation in terms of regrets. They wouldn't not have their kids for anything. Also considering the social stigma that can exist around saying you don't want kids imagine the reaction you'd get if you said you regret having kids!

I'm as sure as I can be that I don't want kids, I know that that could change too, when I picture my future I can picture me with a bump, and with a little girl all that cute stuff, I know I'd be good at being a mom, and I know if I was in that situation I'd adapt and probably ultimately be happy with my life and the unconditional love would easily replace all the other things I could have had/done, but I can also picture myself solo or with a partner travelling the world, having a different kind of adventure. I do find it hard to picture taking a pregnancy test and being hopeful or excited at the prospect of it being yes though.

I think in both scenarios I'd ultimately be happy, but for me the idea of having a kid feels more like "I could do it if I had to and I'd make the best of it" more than "oh my god this is all I want" if that makes sense?
I think if I was born earlier in a time where get married, buy house, have kids was pretty much the only choice on the table then I'd have been grand, I'd have done it and not thought about it and been happy, but with other options on the table I don't know if it makes sense for me.

coffeyt · 22-11-2018 7:41pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I think in both scenarios I'd ultimately be happy, but for me the idea of having a kid feels more like "I could do it if I had to and I'd make the best of it" more than "oh my god this is all I want" if that makes sense?
I think if I was born earlier in a time where get married, buy house, have kids was pretty much the only choice on the table then I'd have been grand, I'd have done it and not thought about it and been happy, but with other options on the table I don't know if it makes sense for me.

I understand what you are saying and I do believe once you have a child it would be very unusual to genuinely regret it because of course they are a part of you and you feel so much love for them.
However I do think that you can say the same for anything you do in life, mostly people looking back on life say they regret the things they didn't do because of course you can never truly understand something until you experience it yourself so it is very difficult to know for definite how you would feel if you don't do it. Hope all that makes sense!!!

I'm not trying to say that 'oh you don't have kids you wouldn't understand' cos that attitude drives me mad I just mean it's so hard to know if its right for you until you try and then of course it's too late to change your mind.

I can honestly say i never once thought that having kids was 'all I want', far from it I like you could easily have envisioned myself living very happily without them. Even now since I've had them I know I would have enjoyed my life either way and that is why it is so difficult when you are unsure.

As I said for me it was a real case of just taking that chance but again I guess you can say that's what life is taking chances, be that having children or not, either option you take a chance and hope that it will work out for the best.

To be honest I don't envy anyone that decision it was the toughest I made as I was afraid that whatever decision I made I would look back and regret it (and that includes choosing to have them).

I for example have a family member who tried for years to have a child and eventually after 18 years she did only for her marriage to end 2 years later. They were so used to being just them that adding a child to the mix totally changed the dynamic and the marriage didn't survive. So even though I'm sure she doesn't regret having that child there must be a part of her that wonders would her marriage still be intact if she didn't.

I also have an aunt who married late in life to a divorcee who had children already and they were unable to have any of their own and even though she has lived a very full life travelling and has a large extended family I know she regrets never having children of her own.

I'm just glad that my decision is made and personally it has worked out but of course it may not have and I completely understand anyone who chooses not to have children as it is hard work and is not something that everyone wants or needs.

Gaeilgeoir · 23-11-2018 10:04am

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I do find it hard to picture taking a pregnancy test and being hopeful or excited at the prospect of it being yes though.

I think in both scenarios I'd ultimately be happy, but for me the idea of having a kid feels more like "I could do it if I had to and I'd make the best of it" more than "oh my god this is all I want" if that makes sense?

I'm somewhere in the middle I think. I definitely don't have a burning need for children, just an instinct that it's the right decision for me, not even a very strong instinct! I was telling myself yesterday that surely you can't miss what you never had and that even if I had some regrets at remaining childless, I'd get over it wouldn't I? It seems I have thus far failed to convince myself of that though, easy as it should be to choose a life of glorious freedom

Oh and I definitely don't think excitement will be my reaction if I manage to get pregnant. Despite the fact that I will have to spend thousands of euro to do so and presumably will have decided that it's what I want. My reaction will still be utter terror and I suspect that feeling would continue throughout pregnancy all the way up to the time the child pops (optimistic verb to choose, I know) out!

Faith · 23-11-2018 10:31am

For me, I can’t fathom how much my life would have to change with a child, never mind a child with special needs. And although it might be rare*, I deeply fear that I would regret having a child, if I were to. Also, my husband is my world. The thought that having a child could damage our relationship (as it seems to do to so many) is a risk I just couldn’t take when I feel this way.

I’m 99% certain I don’t want children, but there’s always that sliver of doubt - and that comes from an entirely intellectual place and not an emotional one! I feel NO emotional or biological desire for a child at all, and never have. I only doubt that decision when I try to think logically and intellectually, not emotionally.

*There is a lot of emerging literature on this, and actually I doubt it’s as rare as we think it is to regret having children. There’s an interesting (and heartbreaking) episode of the podcast Dear Sugars about it.

Gaeilgeoir · 23-11-2018 10:35am

I absolutely think it's possible I could regret having a child and I am unspeakably terrified at the thought of finding myself with a child with special needs. So much so that it is the one fear that may yet deter me.

I don't need to worry about it harming any relationship though, as I have never been in one and am still a virgin

So that's a plus haha

DoozerT6 · 24-11-2018 12:18am

Gaeilgeoir wrote: »

I absolutely think it's possible I could regret having a child and I am unspeakably terrified at the thought of finding myself with a child with special needs. So much so that it is the one fear that may yet deter me.

I don't need to worry about it harming any relationship though, as I have never been in one and am still a virgin So that's a plus haha

I would be in a similar enough situation to you: while not a virgin, I have never been in a relationship and I am approaching my mid-40's. I often think that my ambivalence in this matter (babies) is due in no small part to never forming a romantic bond with somebody. Neither you nor I know what it's like to love or be loved. I wonder if we had experienced these feelings, would we have more definite thoughts one way or the other? Either "yes I want to have this man's babies", or "nope, I love him but not interested in kids. Just the two of us is fine" (as long as he is in agreement, obvs).

There are women who are sure from a young age that it's not what they want, and that's fine. Then there are others, like us, who are on the fence about the subject, but never got the chance to even consider it seriously, because we had nobody to consider it with. (assuming we don't want to go the 'single' routes).

I dunno. The point is moot for me now at my age, but I'm beginning to think that if I'd married, or even ever been in a stable relationship, that maybe I would have had a kid or two, all going well. I do have a definite regret (for some reason) that I'll never experience pregnancy.

Gaeilgeoir · 24-11-2018 3:05am

I do occasionally worry about my ability to love, as you say I have no experience of it. So sometimes I wonder if I would be able to show my child the love they deserve. It's not even so much that I worry about not loving them, more that I wouldn't know how to express it, so that they might not feel as loved as they would be.

I am very curious about what it must feel like to be loved, though to be honest I think I might actually be very uncomfortable with it. The few times a guy has expressed an interest in me I have sprinted in the other direction, as I found the flattery off-putting and the affection made me nervous. I guess I'd hope it would be different if the feelings were mutual, unfortunately any guy I have liked has had no interest in me, so I haven't been able to test this theory!

KevinCavan · 24-11-2018 4:29am

At work I’m constantly shown pics of babies that other people have had and don’t know how to respond to them.

Faith · 27-11-2018 2:44pm

My job for the next few months involves working closely with death, dying and bereavement. I had to mentally prepare a lot for it, which for me has meant talking about those topics. Seems this triggered a bit of an existential crisis for Mr Faith along the lines of "Who'll remember me when I'm dead?". I told him that he can reopen the conversation about children at any stage and I'll discuss it with him, but I kept waking up during the night last night thinking about having children. Each time, I ultimately landed on "Nope, not for me". I don't even know why I'm posting this, other than a gut feeling that Mr Faith will decide he does want a child and that fills me with terror :eek:.

Neyite · 27-11-2018 3:53pm

KevinCavan wrote: »

At work I’m constantly shown pics of babies that other people have had and don’t know how to respond to them.

I'm hopeless at 'seeing' who a baby looks like. All babies look like a cheerful potato to me. So my stock response is "aww he/she's so cute!"

I thought my own was the most gorgeous baby I'd ever laid eyes on and now I look back on pictures of him then, yup -cheerful spud. :pac:

woodchuck · 27-11-2018 5:17pm

90% of babies all look the same to me.
5% are exceptionally beautiful.
5% are exceptionally ugly.

So when the pictures go around, most of the time I just give a cursory glance and do the expected "ah aren't they lovely" response. If I spend a lot longer looking at the picture, it's because falls into the one of the other two categories... probably obvious from my facial reaction which one :P

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 06-12-2018 2:23am

Faith wrote: »

My job for the next few months involves working closely with death, dying and bereavement. I had to mentally prepare a lot for it, which for me has meant talking about those topics. Seems this triggered a bit of an existential crisis for Mr Faith along the lines of "Who'll remember me when I'm dead?". I told him that he can reopen the conversation about children at any stage and I'll discuss it with him, but I kept waking up during the night last night thinking about having children. Each time, I ultimately landed on "Nope, not for me". I don't even know why I'm posting this, other than a gut feeling that Mr Faith will decide he does want a child and that fills me with terror :eek:.

Well, my friend put it bluntly to me a few years ago: who will remember any of us when we’re gone once a few generations have passed? Hell, many of my friends don’t know a thing about some of their grandparents, the ones that died when they were young or before they were born.

Apart from a select few who achieve fame in their lifetime, none of us will be remembered in a relatively quick amount of time. Hell even some famous-in-their-lifetime people are quickly forgotten.

So, it’s definitely not a reason to have kids. Tell Mr. Faith that!

Faith · 06-12-2018 2:29pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Well, my friend put it bluntly to me a few years ago: who will remember any of us when were gone once a few generations have passed? Hell, many of my friends don’t know a thing about some of their grandparents, the ones that died when they were young or before they were born.

Apart from a select few who achieve fame in their lifetime, none of us will be remembered in a relatively quick amount of time. Hell even some famous-in-their-lifetime people are quickly forgotten.

So, it’s definitely not a reason to have kids. Tell Mr. Faith that!

That’s simultaneously depressing and reassuring

Faith · 19-08-2020 5:44pm

I was interested to bump this thread, to see whether anyone’s attitudes have changed over time?

I’m 33 now, and I have a group of 3 friends from school that I’d talk with the most. Of them, 1 has a toddler and has just announced her second pregnancy, one has a toddler and has had a couple of miscarriages recently, and one just had a baby.

I’ve still never, ever felt the DESIRE to have a child, but I find I pretty regularly feel left out (in my head only, my friends are wonderful and certainly would never make me feel left out). I also regularly wonder if I’m abnormal for not wanting kids.

I even came off hormonal contraception for the past year to see if that elicited a desire to have kids, but all it did was make me have periods again and be more moody. I have an appointment for a Mirena fitting in a couple of weeks!

In terms of life experiences and progress, mine has been very different to my friends. Their lives have been quite settled, with only minor changes along the way, while my life has never been the same one year to the next! I do wonder if, once I’ve bought my own house in the next 12 months or so, if anything might change in terms of having kids.

Really interested to hear the experiences of others who are or were ambivalent or definitively child free?

Caranica · 19-08-2020 10:39pm

I've never wanted kids. Early 40s now and still don't. The closest I've come to feeling maternal is my twin nephews who I adore. I have other niblings but there's something special about this pair. All the same I'm not one for changing nappies or the responsibility and couldn't see myself ever having a child of my own. I don't feel I'm missing out.

My circle of close friends goes from 20 something to 60s so there's a real mix of life stages. I've always been closer to guys than girls so don't have a close group who've been mothers at the same time other than my sisters. And seeing their lives, no thanks!

Baby Ambivalence · 20-08-2020 7:26am

Im the one who started this thread. At the risk of outing myself as a hypocrite...since starting it, I had a baby!

I was on the fence for so long waiting for a desire to kick in but it wasn't so we just took a leap of faith and hoped for the best. Thankfully we have no regrets.

I'm enjoying parenthood far more than I expected to. I was never one for cooing over babies but now every baby I see reminds me of mine and I can't help but go "aww". ðŸ˜„

Gaeilgeoir · 20-08-2020 9:24am

Baby Ambivalence wrote: »

Im the one who started this thread. At the risk of outing myself as a hypocrite...since starting it, I had a baby!

I was on the fence for so long waiting for a desire to kick in but it wasn't so we just took a leap of faith and hoped for the best. Thankfully we have no regrets.

I'm enjoying parenthood far more than I expected to. I was never one for cooing over babies but now every baby I see reminds me of mine and I can't help but go "aww". &#55357;&#56836;

Well congratulations

Since my previous posts, I did go through fertility treatment and currently have 16 frozen embryos waiting for me after IVF. So I'm still at the stage where I could chicken out :P All my fears still remain, particularly regarding having a child with a mental disability who would require lifelong care. Oh and I'm also terrified of being pregnant and giving birth!

The only thing driving me on is the thought of looking back at my life at 60 or 70 years old and asking myself what kind of life I want to have lived. I have still never been in a relationship and am not optimistic that it's something I can hope for. My job doesn't really fulfill me and I don't envision finding a magical career that will give my life the meaning I feel it so desperately needs.

So yes, it looks like I'm treading that well worn path of having a child to give my life purpose. So I still don't feel particularly maternal and still have zero interest in other people's children. However, I do very often find myself thinking of how I'll talk to my child about certain things or how I'll introduce them to all the things I love.

I guess ultimately I feel like I live my life in a holding pattern and I don't want to spend the rest of my life just existing, keeping myself going by sprinkling a few events throughout the year that I live for (I travel abroad to badminton tournaments, well I did before Coronavirus!). I want something more from my life and so, if I don't get last-minute cold feet, I'll be doing an embryo transfer in the next few months.

There's still a reasonable chance of me giving up on the whole thing though, it is very scary :P

Baby Ambivalence · 20-08-2020 3:02pm

Gaeilgeoir wrote: »

Well congratulations
Since my previous posts, I did go through fertility treatment and currently have 16 frozen embryos waiting for me after IVF. So I'm still at the stage where I could chicken out :P All my fears still remain, particularly regarding having a child with a mental disability who would require lifelong care. Oh and I'm also terrified of being pregnant and giving birth.

Best of luck with the IVF! Having a kid with a disability was my great fear too. Thank god ours is healthy.
Being pregnant was a bit of a pain in the last trimester. Giving birth wasn't a pleasant experience but it wasn't as traumatising as I'd expected and it's true that you instantly forget it as soon as the baby arrives, and I mean, you aren't even that bothered by being sliced and stitched. Those labour hormones are better than valium!

meeeeh · 20-08-2020 3:30pm

I don't mean this in judgemental way at all but I do wonder if anyone started thinking having kids is more attractive once Covid hit and there was very little to do. A lot of things that make child free life attractive just aren't there. While for me the main social difference was I didn't have to bring them to activities and there was no school gate chat (in fairness that could be just sad reflection of my life). That being said a few weeks of homeschooling is enough to put you off of having more kids.

Anyway congratulations for the baby.

Gaeilgeoir · 20-08-2020 3:32pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't mean this in judgemental way at all but I do wonder if anyone started thinking having kids is more attractive once Covid hit and there was very little to do. A lot of things that make child free life attractive just aren't there. While for me the main social difference was I didn't have to bring them to activities and there was no school gate chat (in fairness that could be just sad reflection of my life). That being said a few weeks of homeschooling is enough to put you off of having more kids.

Anyway congratulations for the baby.

Personally, the Coronavirus situation made me question again my intention to have children as I couldn't imagine being a parent during all this! I have considerable concern about my capacity to both find my child entertaining and to entertain them in return :P

Baby Ambivalence · 20-08-2020 4:14pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't mean this in judgemental way at all but I do wonder if anyone started thinking having kids is more attractive once Covid hit and there was very little to do. A lot of things that make child free life attractive just aren't there. While for me the main social difference was I didn't have to bring them to activities and there was no school gate chat (in fairness that could be just sad reflection of my life). That being said a few weeks of homeschooling is enough to put you off of having more kids.

Anyway congratulations for the baby.

We won't know the answer to that until next year when the covid babies arrive.

Faith · 20-08-2020 5:40pm

Congrats, OP! Interesting to hear you just decided to go for it in the end.

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't mean this in judgemental way at all but I do wonder if anyone started thinking having kids is more attractive once Covid hit and there was very little to do. A lot of things that make child free life attractive just aren't there. While for me the main social difference was I didn't have to bring them to activities and there was no school gate chat (in fairness that could be just sad reflection of my life). That being said a few weeks of homeschooling is enough to put you off of having more kids.

Anyway congratulations for the baby.

Absolutely 100% the opposite for me. Seeing my friends and colleagues struggling to entertain and home-school kids this whole time has never made me more glad to not have children. As bored as I was, I was eternally grateful I only had myself and my husband to worry about!

Loveinapril · 20-08-2020 5:51pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't mean this in judgemental way at all but I do wonder if anyone started thinking having kids is more attractive once Covid hit and there was very little to do. A lot of things that make child free life attractive just aren't there. While for me the main social difference was I didn't have to bring them to activities and there was no school gate chat (in fairness that could be just sad reflection of my life). That being said a few weeks of homeschooling is enough to put you off of having more kids.

Anyway congratulations for the baby.

I have a one year old and a 2.5 year old and a few times a week I had fantasies of what lockdown would be like without kids! I would have managed to fill my time wisely with hangovers and lie ins. I wonder if it would have been different pre-babies and would I have been bored but I remember a good friend telling me before I had my eldest to really "feel" when I was alone, to really pay attention and appreciate it. I tried but only now know what she meant. Once you have kids, even if you are physically apart, your mind is really never your own anymore.

meeeeh · 20-08-2020 6:36pm

The reason I am asking is because the research points that mental health of millennials was most affected during lockdown. There are probably multiple factors for that but I suspect they are the generation who felt the loneliness the most. At the same it's generation which was most likely stuck at home with small kids. So it could go either way. The other factor is the new found enthusiasm for having a dog. Kids are probably more demanding but they don't chew off parts of back door when bored (you'd think ours would come to her senses after two years but no she just moved from rose brushes to furniture.)

notsoyoungwan · 24-08-2020 12:19am

Hi Faith.

I’m surprised to see I hadn’t posted on this thread first time round, as usually it’s the sort of discussion I get into. Anyway, I’m 41 and childfree and will definitely stay that way. I have never ever felt a desire to have a child. Not once. Not even an idle curiosity as to what it’d be like. Similar to how I’ve never wanted to be a nightclub promotor or own a zoo or sail across the Atlantic. It has simply never been something I’d like to do. When I think further about it, logically I see no reason to go ahead and do it anyway. My ‘pro’ list would be very very short and my ‘con’ list interminable!

I’ve recently gotten a sterilisation, as hormonal contraception just doesn’t suit me. The relief of this is immense. I have no regrets.

What I find irritating is the judgement from (some) others. The bolloX about not knowing real love, having proper meaning and fulfilment to your life etc. And don’t get me started on the narcissism of wanting to ‘leave something behind’ or ‘to be remembered after death’ or worse ‘I wanted someone that was half me and half my partner’. Added to that is what people think is the trump card of ‘who’ll look after you when you’re old?’, ignoring the fact that it’s a spectacularly selfish reason to have children, and also that there’s no guarantee those children will actually look after you when you’re old.

So, what I’d say to you is not to bow to societal or peer pressure or expectations. Be damn sure you want to have a kid before having one. Because having a child and regretting it must be a horrendous place to be.

notsoyoungwan · 24-08-2020 12:41am

Sorry Faith, meant to add in response to your question that I’m very settled in my life. I’ve owned my own home since 2012, have a steady, permanent, well-paid job , so being settled hasn’t changed my opinion about having kids.

zedhead · 24-08-2020 7:46am

I grew up always wanting kids. I wanted to be a primary school teacher for junior and senior infants when I was in school (so glad now that my irish was not good enough to go into primary teaching, it would definitely not have been the right career choice for me. When I met my partner almost 10 years ago, he told me very early on he didn't think he wanted kids. It was a passing remark when I was cooing over a cute child in the zoo and while it worried me, at the time I thought there is no guarantee this will last so we'll just see how it goes. As we got more serious he said he would have kids with me when the time came and that was that we moved on.

The thing is, as I got older and started to think about when we might have kids it started to look less appealing to me. We both have good jobs with decent salarys but I could not understand how people afford children - child care particularly. It just seemed like this huge insurmountable thing. I also suffer very badly from anxiety and always thing something bad is going to happen to someone I love. I never turn my ringtone off at night in case i get a call about a family member. I regularly worry my partner is just going to stop breathing in the night. I worry the world is going to end, that my house is going to fall down, that I will lose my job. All of this did not feel compatible with having kids and I know they bring forward a whole new set of anxietys that I would be worried I would not be able to cope with. and the more i thought about it the more I guessed that having kids maybe was just something I assumed I'd do.

So over the past few years I have gone back and forth I don't know how many times. SOmetimes I really want one, but as soon as i think of everything it entails I go back to not wanting one. Recently we got a dog, and I still worry so much something is going to happen to him. For the first month every morning I would open the kitchen door terrified that he would have died or been injured overnight (that feeling has not fully gone away even after 2 months). So if I am like this with a dog what would I be like with a child. I also see even how limiting having a dog is - everything has to be so much better planned now because its not just the 2 of us. But then I also feel so much love for this little thing, and my nieces and nephews and friends kids. Plus I have seen a side to my partner in the way he interacts with the dog I never knew about.

So yes its incredibly difficult to know what the right thing to do is. We are running out of time to make the decision, and at the moment I am more leaning towards wanting one child, but i think I would need to be sure before going for it.

Errashareesh · 13-09-2020 4:31pm

I've never been interested in having children. But I think most women are - and from a young age. As a young girl I assumed an interest would develop when I was an adult. As a young adult, I assumed it would develop later. It never did. I wondered whether there was something wrong with me. And finally I made peace with it. It's just not for me. I do think about when I'll be old with no children, but the journey to become old with children is not a journey for me.

I'm not one of those people who dislikes kids at all - I think they're adorable (when not behaving badly!) and I'm crazy about my brother's three children. I don't mind when people say there's no love like it. I've no doubt there isn't. I don't get any insensitive comments about not having children either. Well once ever - and I could tell she felt bad, it was just blurted out off the cuff. Didn't bother me - she's otherwise a lovely woman.

But there are very tough aspects from baby years to college years and those are not worth it to me personally. And I'm not trying to fool myself - I think some are when they keep going on about how great it is not to have children. Neither choice is better than the other. I've seen online comments like "Must be such an unhappy lonely life" - gas like. Because someone would prefer a different path to them, they simply MUST be unhappy and lonely. The obvious rebuttal is "Must be exhausted, stressed, no time for yourself".

There's a fashion now - part of rightwing online misogyny - to denigrate childless women aged 30s and over (apart from Gemma O'Doherty and Anne Coulter of course - they're OK

). Jibes about "empty egg carton" and so on. A delight in women hitting "the wall" etc - as if it's a character flaw; how we have lost "value" and so forth. This is not from well adjusted men/women though.

It's as bad to me however as "women feel forced to conform and become a mother". Might be true in some cases but most mothers want to become mothers. Many find it harder than they expected though. A woman who does not want to have children is in the minority but it's not an insignificant minority - it's just more acceptable to voice that view/put it into practice now.

The people whom I do feel sad for are those who long for a child and it doesn't happen (whatever the reason may be). That's heartbreaking, and the small coterie that delights in looking down on childless women would do well to take them into consideration.

bertiebomber · 19-12-2020 10:03pm

As an older woman who never wanted children i was well before my time, and suffered great criticism for my views even from my own mother. When i was of child bearing age all women had children regardless of happiness or security they just pushed them out. I stuck to my guns and i dont regret it at all.

I dont despise them but I also dont feel any draw to children . Its fine to not have them and in older years you can fill your life with lots of things. I often think having children robs women of good years that they will never get back and in the selfish society we live in even those precious children abandon their loving parents into nursing homes. Do, do what is best for you not for the GDP of the country & the workers market as in truth that is all you are doing is providing worker bees to keep the money flowing. Have a child because you wan to create a good human and nurture it do it only for the right reasons and if you are not sure DONT

arex93 · 12-01-2021 10:52pm

My mother raised me alone and I haven’t grown up with siblings. I want to have children because I want a family, I want the experience of raising a human being. My mother gave me so much love and I want to do the same for someone. But honestly, I would like to not have this desire about having kids, because it makes me fell under pressure. I will turn 28 this year, I'm married and my husband wants kids but not now. He has a good job, and I don't even have a job. I am studying and looking for it, but I don’t know when it will happen. And I have just one ovary which makes things a little bit difficult. I have the feeling that I won't get pregnant naturally, but I also don’t want to do any expensive treatment with no guarantee of success. I consider adoption in the future. I think if I won't have kids I will regret it.

pwurple · 13-01-2021 9:22am

arex93 wrote: »

My mother raised me alone and I haven’t grown up with siblings. I want to have children because I want a family, I want the experience of raising a human being. My mother gave me so much love and I want to do the same for someone. But honestly, I would like to not have this desire about having kids, because it makes me fell under pressure. I will turn 28 this year, I'm married and my husband wants kids but not now. He has a good job, and I don't even have a job. I am studying and looking for it, but I don’t know when it will happen. And I have just one ovary which makes things a little bit difficult. I have the feeling that I won't get pregnant naturally, but I also don’t want to do any expensive treatment with no guarantee of success. I consider adoption in the future. I think if I won't have kids I will regret it.

Your husband needs a little gentle education if that's his plan. Sometimes it's straightforward, sometimes it can take years. We started 'trying' at 28, and I was 33 by the time I had my eldest after a bunch of medical investigations. Also, if adoption is something you want to do, you would be well advised to start that process now also, again, takes 5+ years and there's a cutoff at 35.

arex93 · 13-01-2021 8:25pm

pwurple wrote: »

Your husband needs a little gentle education if that's his plan. Sometimes it's straightforward, sometimes it can take years. We started 'trying' at 28, and I was 33 by the time I had my eldest after a bunch of medical investigations. Also, if adoption is something you want to do, you would be well advised to start that process now also, again, takes 5+ years and there's a cutoff at 35.

I know some couples with a story like yours... they spent a time until having their first child... and they haven't started trying to conceive late, the age was not the problem.

I'm already talking with my husband about this matter, he says that I'm too pessimist, that it won't be difficult to conceive, but if I'm worried about it I should do some fertility check... so I called a clinic to test my ovarian reserve, I wanted to know if I can wait more before trying, but they are not accepting new patients because of covid.

I didn't know about the cutoff for adoption, thank you for sharing.

pwurple · 14-01-2021 4:02pm

arex93 wrote: »

I'm already talking with my husband about this matter, he says that I'm too pessimist, that it won't be difficult to conceive, but if I'm worried about it I should do some fertility check... so I called a clinic to test my ovarian reserve, I wanted to know if I can wait more before trying, but they are not accepting new patients because of covid.

Do you have an understanding on when his "not yet" becomes "now? Is it based on a certain age, or things like... you have a job, he has a certain salary, you have travelled to somewhere. What is it he wants to have checked off the list before starting a family?

Because, I've also seen people waiting for the entirety of their reproductive years for someone's mind to change when it's not defined.

It can genuinely be someone who is waiting to feel like they want children, and that feeling just never arrives.

arex93 · 14-01-2021 6:23pm

pwurple wrote: »

Do you have an understanding on when his "not yet" becomes "now? Is it based on a certain age, or things like... you have a job, he has a certain salary, you have travelled to somewhere. What is it he wants to have checked off the list before starting a family?

That’s the point. We came to Ireland in 2019 with only our savings. He is an IT professional, so he got a good job. But I started from zero as I was not happy in my previous career. He wants to see me working, he likes an independent woman.

And travelling is another point. We haven’t travelled so much, he wants travelling a lot before having a child. And I do want all these things as well, but I'm aware I can't wait too long for kids. We can travel and I can study/work until the day we die.

If I could choose between having children now or in 5 years, I would choose in 5 years. But we can not control the nature. For that reason, I would like at least to stop avoiding a pregnancy next year, with a good job or not.

bitofabind · 21-01-2021 3:31pm

Really interesting thread. And interesting to read the OP update that despite ambivalence, she went ahead and couldn't be happier. I feel like this represents the journey of a lot of women, but we just don't talk about it. Instead we're sold this message of having this primal yearning from deep inside our wombs, that we were born to bear children.

I'm in my mid-30s and have gone from the same ambivalence most of my life to "yes, but not now". Which is a tricky one considering my age. My life has also changed meaningfully in the last year or so, having met my partner, and about to move countries and jobs too. Life has been travel, living abroad, high flying careers since I graduated from college and thinking about having children in that environment was like thinking about flying to the moon. Like, what? Uhhhh, yeah I mean maybe but not for yearrrrrs.

Now I'm embarking on some major life changes again and am torn between enjoying the journey and letting the dust settle where it will, to the worry about my fertility, what if I wait too long? I'll be 36 in April. I did a fertility MOT a few months ago, all in working order but don't wait too long, was the general picture. And yet it's hard with all the uncertainty ahead to see myself with a baby. To not be the footloose and fancy-free career-chasing busybody I've been for the last decade. Am I ready? Are we ready? What does "ready" look like?

cena · 22-01-2021 2:40am

bitofabind wrote: »

Really interesting thread. And interesting to read the OP update that despite ambivalence, she went ahead and couldn't be happier. I feel like this represents the journey of a lot of women, but we just don't talk about it. Instead we're sold this message of having this primal yearning from deep inside our wombs, that we were born to bear children.

I'm in my mid-30s and have gone from the same ambivalence most of my life to "yes, but not now". Which is a tricky one considering my age. My life has also changed meaningfully in the last year or so, having met my partner, and about to move countries and jobs too. Life has been travel, living abroad, high flying careers since I graduated from college and thinking about having children in that environment was like thinking about flying to the moon. Like, what? Uhhhh, yeah I mean maybe but not for yearrrrrs.

Now I'm embarking on some major life changes again and am torn between enjoying the journey and letting the dust settle where it will, to the worry about my fertility, what if I wait too long? I'll be 36 in April. I did a fertility MOT a few months ago, all in working order but don't wait too long, was the general picture. And yet it's hard with all the uncertainty ahead to see myself with a baby. To not be the footloose and fancy-free career-chasing busybody I've been for the last decade. Am I ready? Are we ready? What does "ready" look like?

I have just turned 36. No kids or partner/wife yet. I would love to have at least one or two by now. I would make a great dad.

Their is always fostering or adoption

Ambivalent about babies

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