Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

lord lucan · 18-02-2010 3:07pm

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

The Evening Herald a few years back stated that CIE have repainted and restored dozens of stations in the past and then closed the lines they served. One paragraph mentioned that the toilets and waiting rooms of every station on the West Cork lines were refurbushed and modernised weeks prior to closure.

The chimmneys were relined and rebuilt at Bantry station as the track machine was ripping up the rails. New ticket machines were bought for every station on CIE's network in 1962 knowing that about 150 of them were to be closed within months.

Probably UL, but would anyone be surprised if this was true.

This is one of the Urban Legends that is actually true. It was a regular thing here and to a certain extent in the UK. It became a running joke that a sure sign of closure was a new paint job and tidy up of stations. Never understood the logic of it tbh?!!

Judgement Day · 18-02-2010 3:18pm

lord_lucan it was actually worse than just painting stations in the case of the West Cork system; years ago I had a collection of CIE Weekly circulars from the months prior to the closure and there was wholesale track relaying work carried out in various station yards. All part of the plan to pile up costs.

FlameoftheWest · 19-02-2010 12:31am

Judgement Day wrote: »

lord_lucan it was actually worse than just painting stations in the case of the West Cork system; years ago I had a collection of CIE Weekly circulars from the months prior to the closure and there was wholesale track relaying work carried out in various station yards. All part of the plan to pile up costs.

That beyond mindblowing. What is the possible rationale for this other than CIE being a culturally insane or psychopathic organisation?

paulm17781 · 19-02-2010 12:48am

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

That beyond mindblowing. What is the possible rationale for this other than CIE being a culturally insane or psychopathic organisation?

Spend a lot of money so they get it again the following year?

FlameoftheWest · 19-02-2010 12:52am

paulm17781 wrote: »

Spend a lot of money so they get it again the following year?

So CIE are a mafia crime syndicate involved in extortion, racketeering and fraud while pretending to be a public transport provider?

lord lucan · 19-02-2010 1:14am

paulm17781 wrote: »

Spend a lot of money so they get it again the following year?

Pretty much imo.

Government: How much will you need in your budget next year?

CIE: Well,we spent £IRXXm last year so i think we need the same again,or maybe a bit more?!

Government: OK so,away yiz go lads,same again next year. Don't spend it all in one shop.;)

popebenny16 · 19-02-2010 2:41am

lord lucan wrote: »

Pretty much imo.

Government: How much will you need in your budget next year?

CIE: Well,we spent £IRXXm last year so i think we need the same again,or maybe a bit more?!

Government: OK so,away yiz go lads,same again next year. Don't spend it all in one shop.;)

no, more likely what happened was that CIE did what they could to ensure that certain lines were going and ramped up the costs to help them on their way.

Dont forget this is the company whose solution in the past year to political pressure on the PSO payment has been to basically advocate getting out of transport altogether. Plus la Change and all that.

paulm17781 · 19-02-2010 10:11am

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

So CIE are a mafia crime syndicate involved in extortion, racketeering and fraud while pretending to be a public transport provider?

No, this is how corporate budgets work. If you don't spend it all, you get less the following year.

KC61 · 19-02-2010 10:22am

paulm17781 wrote: »

No, this is how corporate budgets work. If you don't spend it all, you get less the following year.

Exactly - my memories of being involved with other areas of the public sector were precisely that - there would always be last minute spending if the budget had not been completely used in the run up to year end.

JHMEG · 19-02-2010 12:27pm

paulm17781 wrote: »

No, this is how corporate budgets work. If you don't spend it all, you get less the following year.

Arguably it's how it works in the public sector. In the private sector people get bonuses for coming in under budget.

shamwari · 19-02-2010 1:53pm

Perhaps the single biggest weakness with Irish project management is that absolutely everything is budget driven. The consequences of that is that you always end up with the cheapest solution, and not the optimum one.

parsi · 23-02-2010 1:26pm

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

That beyond mindblowing. What is the possible rationale for this other than CIE being a culturally insane or psychopathic organisation?

No. It's standard corporate mentality if you want to justify closure of a shop or a service etc : rack up avoidable costs and claim the shop/line/service was uneconomic.

If you're MOL you pick a fight about something that you've been happy about and then storm off.

Cookie_Monster · 23-02-2010 1:42pm

shamwari wrote: »

Perhaps the single biggest weakness with Irish project management is that absolutely everything is budget driven. The consequences of that is that you always end up with the cheapest solution, and not the optimum one.

which means you never end up with the cheapest option in the end

DWCommuter · 06-03-2010 12:40am

This planned railtour of the WRC thats being run by Irish Rail, using the IRRS as ticket agents and "restored" MK3 rolling stock is starting to get on my wick.

1. It reinforces the point that "enthusiasts" had a very big role in the reopening of this joke railway. (This tour will not be the last) A minor point, yes, but one that was previously derided as irrelevant. I don't think so.

2. Its using rolling stock that has been returned to service at the Irish Taxpayers expense. And rolling stock that is being deprived to the public on the basis of being redundant.

3. It's organisation has been influence by UK enthusiasts.

4. The financial benefits are being donated to a UK based childrens charity that has absolutely no presence or profile in Ireland. Considering the dire situation of many Irish charities, I find this grossly misguided and offensive.

5. I am not against railtours once they do not engage in activities that are at odds with the provision or financing of a rail service to the Irish public. Railways should not be playthings for enthusiasts at the expense of Irish taxpayers and fundraising activities that are destined to charities with no connection to Ireland.

To my knowledge, this is the second time that these "organisers" have used the Irish Railway network to the detriment of Irish people, while channeling the charitable aspect out of the country. I believe this planned railtour should be investigated and exposed for the liberties its taking.

Godge · 06-03-2010 1:25am

DWCommuter wrote: »

This planned railtour of the WRC thats being run by Irish Rail, using the IRRS as ticket agents and "restored" MK3 rolling stock is starting to get on my wick.

1. It reinforces the point that "enthusiasts" had a very big role in the reopening of this joke railway. (This tour will not be the last) A minor point, yes, but one that was previously derided as irrelevant. I don't think so.

2. Its using rolling stock that has been returned to service at the Irish Taxpayers expense. And rolling stock that is being deprived to the public on the basis of being redundant.

3. It's organisation has been influence by UK enthusiasts.

4. The financial benefits are being donated to a UK based childrens charity that has absolutely no presence or profile in Ireland. Considering the dire situation of many Irish charities, I find this grossly misguided and offensive.

5. I am not against railtours once they do not engage in activities that are at odds with the provision or financing of a rail service to the Irish public. Railways should not be playthings for enthusiasts at the expense of Irish taxpayers and fundraising activities that are destined to charities with no connection to Ireland.

To my knowledge, this is the second time that these "organisers" have used the Irish Railway network to the detriment of Irish people, while channeling the charitable aspect out of the country. I believe this planned railtour should be investigated and exposed for the liberties its taking.

For those of us who are not WRC-enthusiasts, what rail tour?

FlameoftheWest · 06-03-2010 2:04am

DWCommuter wrote: »

This planned railtour of the WRC thats being run by Irish Rail, using the IRRS as ticket agents and "restored" MK3 rolling stock is starting to get on my wick.

1. It reinforces the point that "enthusiasts" had a very big role in the reopening of this joke railway. (This tour will not be the last) A minor point, yes, but one that was previously derided as irrelevant. I don't think so.

2. Its using rolling stock that has been returned to service at the Irish Taxpayers expense. And rolling stock that is being deprived to the public on the basis of being redundant.

3. It's organisation has been influence by UK enthusiasts.

4. The financial benefits are being donated to a UK based childrens charity that has absolutely no presence or profile in Ireland. Considering the dire situation of many Irish charities, I find this grossly misguided and offensive.

5. I am not against railtours once they do not engage in activities that are at odds with the provision or financing of a rail service to the Irish public. Railways should not be playthings for enthusiasts at the expense of Irish taxpayers and fundraising activities that are destined to charities with no connection to Ireland.

To my knowledge, this is the second time that these "organisers" have used the Irish Railway network to the detriment of Irish people, while channeling the charitable aspect out of the country. I believe this planned railtour should be investigated and exposed for the liberties its taking.

This should be a national scandal. But considering that the main players are British, it does not even quality as this.

Insanity.

FlameoftheWest · 06-03-2010 2:05am

Godge wrote: »

For those of us who are not WRC-enthusiasts, what rail tour?

The really expensive one.

Godge · 06-03-2010 2:35am

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

The really expensive one.

i was looking for a link/explanation.

invinciblePRSTV · 06-03-2010 2:49am

DWCommuter wrote: »

4. The financial benefits are being donated to a UK based childrens charity that has absolutely no presence or profile in Ireland. Considering the dire situation of many Irish charities, I find this grossly misguided and offensive.

To be fair the charity in question my not have an Irish operation but does operate internationally not just in the UK. Whilst it would be nice if there were perhaps a contribution to a locally based group like the GRC as well, i think its still a bit much to get offended over.

Victor · 06-03-2010 10:49am

Godge wrote: »

For those of us who are not WRC-enthusiasts, what rail tour?

There is a rail tour on 20 March, before the line opens to public service.

dowlingm · 06-03-2010 2:40pm

Is this a different one to the one listed here for the 24th April, proceeds to the Railway Children Fund?

http://www.irrs.ie/Railtours/171%20WRC%20Outing.htm

Tech3 · 06-03-2010 2:53pm

DWCommuter wrote: »

5. I am not against railtours once they do not engage in activities that are at odds with the provision or financing of a rail service to the Irish public. Railways should not be playthings for enthusiasts at the expense of Irish taxpayers and fundraising activities that are destined to charities with no connection to Ireland.

Great post DW and especially the bit above. It was reckless to give this project the go ahead from the start, the opening cant come soon enough to show how many passengers this service will have once opened(not many!) I'm all for a good rail link between the cities of this country but relaying track on a windy ancient alignment is no good and with too many stops.

lord lucan · 06-03-2010 3:26pm

dowlingm wrote: »

Is this a different one to the one listed here for the 24th April, proceeds to the Railway Children Fund?

http://www.irrs.ie/Railtours/171%20WRC%20Outing.htm

That's the one!

06-03-2010 3:37pm

I knew I should never have looked in.

DW, any chance of you posting some links and quotes to justify your position in your rant post? Would you be just as dismayed if it was run on an existing mainline? Everything the same, but not on a peice of line that you want to rant tell us all about the wasteful spending on?

Edit: just saw the others. Why didn't you link to them from your post? If it wasn't for lord lucan's (edit: he quoted dowlingm, so his credit) link I would have had no idea. And more importantly, no one but a regular rail poster would know what you're talking about. Expecting a non-enthusiast to go looking up stuff that you want to rant post about as if it was public knowledge asks far too much of the casual viewer.

Anyways, my reaction to your whinging dismay. It doesn't concern me.

You've all made your points countless times, I'll make mine once more, and then I'm leaving you to it.

It's built. The battle is lost. Most likely it will be the only part of the line that's going to be built. We have a lot more problems out there than the waste of a few million. Try the few billion we need to restart major industry in the midwest, a Dell replacement. I think that's a bigger problem for all of you guys to get hopping mad about, than the few million that's thrown at the west to a service that actually will give some help to people. Maybe not enough people to satisfy you, people you think are best ignored, but some people.

I've always remembered something I was told. If you're told you're bad at something enough times, you start beleiving it. That actually has nothing to do with whether you actually are good at it or not, but if you're told enough times "Stop that you little pr*ck, you're no good at it! f*ck off and do something else!", you actually start beleiving it. We all know it as a self-fullfilling prophecy.

If people who might use the "WRC" started listening to you, then the WRC would fail dismally. But it would have nothing to do with whether it actually was crap or not. Your hammering home the dogma of crapness would be the only reason.

Ach, I'm off topic. This is the last time I'm posting on the Western Rail Corridor, bar one post. When I travel that rail line I will give an objective report of my impressions.

This is Slacker signing off. Don't bother asking questions of me, I'm not answering. Mods, if there's anything above you don't like please remove this post but I beg not to be barred from C&T as I am a regular traveller from Galway to Dublin on all forms of transport and I consider the ability to discuss the services available as essential.

Give it a chance, let the numbers speak for themselves when they come out. And stop nitpicking, it does no one any good.

Proof of the pudding aint in the whining. It's in the eating.

DWCommuter · 06-03-2010 6:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I knew I should never have looked in.

DW, any chance of you posting some links and quotes to justify your position in your rant post? Would you be just as dismayed if it was run on an existing mainline? Everything the same, but not on a peice of line that you want to rant tell us all about the wasteful spending on?

Edit: just saw the others. Why didn't you link to them from your post? If it wasn't for lord lucan's (edit: he quoted dowlingm, so his credit) link I would have had no idea. And more importantly, no one but a regular rail poster would know what you're talking about. Expecting a non-enthusiast to go looking up stuff that you want to rant post about as if it was public knowledge asks far too much of the casual viewer.

Anyways, my reaction to your whinging dismay. It doesn't concern me.

You've all made your points countless times, I'll make mine once more, and then I'm leaving you to it.

It's built. The battle is lost. Most likely it will be the only part of the line that's going to be built. We have a lot more problems out there than the waste of a few million. Try the few billion we need to restart major industry in the midwest, a Dell replacement. I think that's a bigger problem for all of you guys to get hopping mad about, than the few million that's thrown at the west to a service that actually will give some help to people. Maybe not enough people to satisfy you, people you think are best ignored, but some people.

I've always remembered something I was told. If you're told you're bad at something enough times, you start beleiving it. That actually has nothing to do with whether you actually are good at it or not, but if you're told enough times "Stop that you little pr*ck, you're no good at it! f*ck off and do something else!", you actually start beleiving it. We all know it as a self-fullfilling prophecy.

If people who might use the "WRC" started listening to you, then the WRC would fail dismally. But it would have nothing to do with whether it actually was crap or not. Your hammering home the dogma of crapness would be the only reason.

Ach, I'm off topic. This is the last time I'm posting on the Western Rail Corridor, bar one post. When I travel that rail line I will give an objective report of my impressions.

This is Slacker signing off. Don't bother asking questions of me, I'm not answering. Mods, if there's anything above you don't like please remove this post but I beg not to be barred from C&T as I am a regular traveller from Galway to Dublin on all forms of transport and I consider the ability to discuss the services available as essential.

Give it a chance, let the numbers speak for themselves when they come out. And stop nitpicking, it does no one any good.

Proof of the pudding aint in the whining. It's in the eating.

Wow!

Now that's a rant. Who burned your toast this morning?

I made 5 points. Only one was in relation to the WRC itself. The other 4 were about a railtour over it. My post is pretty clear in terms of its opinion on a certain matter. And for your information Seaslacker I was just as vocal in 2005 when the same railtour organisers wanted to convert a scheduled service to Sligo into a heritage train made up of locos and rolling stock that had been decommissioned. In the end it was run as a special behind the scheduled service. But only after intervention.

In conclusion my post was not an anti-WRC "rant". If you check this thread, you'll see that I rarely contribute. So go vent your spleen at someone else.

FlameoftheWest · 06-03-2010 10:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I knew I should never have looked in.

DW, any chance of you posting some links and quotes to justify your position in your rant post? Would you be just as dismayed if it was run on an existing mainline? Everything the same, but not on a peice of line that you want to rant tell us all about the wasteful spending on?

Well there is this thing called "reality". Perhaps you have heard of it.

Calina · 06-03-2010 10:31pm

MOD warning.

This thread is getting narky again. I will close it down again if you don't all cool it.

dowlingm · 07-03-2010 2:45am

Deleted User wrote: »

let the numbers speak for themselves when they come out.

That assumes IE will publish the numbers...

popebenny16 · 08-03-2010 2:00pm

I am all in favour of this railtour. Firstly, it will probably one of only three times any serive on this line will be full (the other two being the opening day) and secondly, it being full will add greatly to the annual passenger figures. In fact, I predict many railtours on it.

.

corktina · 08-03-2010 2:32pm

dowlingm wrote: »

That assumes IE will publish the numbers...

i have advocated doing our own survey a mointh or so after it starts running...meet every train for a day at Athenry and Ennis(or Limerick)...i predict I wont have to take of my socks to count the passengers.

I cant recalls eeing the fares structure...anyone got it?

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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