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Flinty997 · 18-06-2021 9:16am

It's not a good sign when the water cooler conversations or eves dropping is vital to your job. Though it's often the case.

Flinty997 · 18-06-2021 9:25am

Jackben75 wrote: »

sounds like piss poor communication in your team. You shouldn't need to overhear things. Have a daily 15 min standup, that should sort it alone.

Depends on the quality of the standup.

Our dept weekly stand up has turned into look what I did, aren't I great. Or just filling the space. Our other section one it's a rambling conversation that has no real structure. Our actual team doesn't have one. You get bits and pieces out if this, but lots of it is irrelevant.

But it's much better than when we were in the office, as we never even did this much back then. You were pretty much siloed on your immediate project or task.

Poor communication is not fixed by location but by people being willing to communicate and learning the value of it.

JimmyVik · 18-06-2021 10:43am

irelandrover wrote: »

You couldn't cover a project properly in a 15 minute daily stand up. Ours takes a minimum of 30.

The team I was talking about was my competence/discipline team and not my project team.

From your posts you seem to assume that your way of working will sort all problems in every company. I disagree.

In the last 15 months I've seen things that would have been prevented by us being in the office.

We have seen a lot of that too.
The way WFH is going to go is that a lot of companies will be happy to do that.
Then you will get one p!ss taker who will ruin it for all and WFH is out the window for all employees of the company.
You will definitely not get companies guaranteeing that an employee can WFH forever, so people moving down the country far away from their jobs are taking huge risks there.

18-06-2021 10:51am

JimmyVik wrote: »

We have seen a lot of that too.
The way WFH is going to go is that a lot of companies will be happy to do that.
Then you will get one p!ss taker who will ruin it for all and WFH is out the window for all employees of the company.
You will definitely not get companies guaranteeing that an employee can WFH forever, so people moving down the country far away from their jobs are taking huge risks there.

Is that possibly one of the reasons why employers are reluctant to miss the opportunity to return to the office? It will be far more difficult later if wfh doesn’t work out.

Also, I suspect it is a lot easier for employers to provide/ensure one safe office workplace than it is to provide hundreds/thousands of home work spaces. I wonder will employers have to take out liability insurance for employees homes like they do for offices if the home is designated their work space?

Flinty997 · 18-06-2021 11:01am

Since wfh and moving to the cloud we've had access to phone and video tools we never had before. I've replaced a lot of documentation and training with videos that people actually watch. Where they wouldn't read the docs we had previously.

Also where people wouldn't engage and we'd get some heat for not supporting them. It's hard to argue with a loaf of videos walking through a process. It's also a good way of demonstrating work done to date on a project. Presentations and talks and training can be made available to allb regardless of location and 24/7.

Only for lockdown I don't think we'd have access to those facilities.

JimmyVik · 18-06-2021 11:04am

Flinty997 wrote: »

Since wfh and moving to the cloud we've had access to phone and video tools we never had before. I've replaced a lot of documentation and training with videos that people actually watch. Where they wouldn't read the docs we had previously.

Also where people wouldn't engage and we'd get some heat for not supporting them. It's hard to argue with a loaf of videos walking through a process. It's also a good way of demonstrating work done to date on a project. Presentations and talks and training can be made available to allb regardless of location and 24/7.

Only for lockdown I don't think we'd have access to those facilities.

Maybe im the only one, but I find video training is no substitute for face to face training. The info just doesnt sink in for me with videos. Unless its something you've done 50 tomes in the past like AML training.

Flinty997 · 18-06-2021 11:10am

JimmyVik wrote: »

Maybe im the only one, but I find in person training is no substitute for face to face training. The info just doesnt sink in for me with videos. Unless its something you've done 50 tomes in the past like AML training.

Oh I agree. But since face to face isn't an option and even in normal times you can't have that available 24/7 these are useful addition training resources.

irelandrover · 18-06-2021 11:40am

Flinty997 wrote: »

Since wfh and moving to the cloud we've had access to phone and video tools we never had before. I've replaced a lot of documentation and training with videos that people actually watch. Where they wouldn't read the docs we had previously.

Also where people wouldn't engage and we'd get some heat for not supporting them. It's hard to argue with a loaf of videos walking through a process. It's also a good way of demonstrating work done to date on a project. Presentations and talks and training can be made available to allb regardless of location and 24/7.

Only for lockdown I don't think we'd have access to those facilities.

You think that someone in an supervised office wouldn't read a document but while they are home unsupervised they are watching your videos?

The people who would read a document in the office are the people that watch the videos at home. The people that wouldn't read the document are not watching your videos at home.

irelandrover · 18-06-2021 11:43am

Jackben75 wrote: »

comes across poorly organised/structured to me, doesn't matter if in an office or wfh. There looks to be a bigger issue here. Fortunately i am retired, however in my time i managed/been involved in multiple projects (agile development approach) on a large scale and 15 mins done fine, you may need to refine or cut in on peoples update at the start but then it should be just fine bar the odd occasion.

You have absolutely no idea how it is organised or structured, you have no idea what is talked about so how you can say it is poor is strange..

We found agile doesn't really work for us since a lot of the items cant be broken down into the short time frames.

Mrs OBumble · 18-06-2021 12:00pm

Jackben75 wrote: »

comes across poorly organised/structured to me, doesn't matter if in an office or wfh. There looks to be a bigger issue here. Fortunately i am retired, however in my time i managed/been involved in multiple projects (agile development approach) on a large scale and 15 mins done fine, you may need to refine or cut in on peoples update at the start but then it should be just fine bar the odd occasion.

That's great for you in software development, with people who are used to rapid change.

But can you see that this may be different for a Finance department? Or a social housing company? Or a mortgage broker?

JimmyVik · 18-06-2021 12:45pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

That's great for you in software development, with people who are used to rapid change.

But can you see that this may be different for a Finance department? Or a social housing company? Or a mortgage broker?

Managers are like Brides.
Their way is always the best, and they never hear about the bad sides of their way

Flinty997 · 18-06-2021 1:00pm

irelandrover wrote: »

You think that someone in an supervised office wouldn't read a document but while they are home unsupervised they are watching your videos?

The people who would read a document in the office are the people that watch the videos at home. The people that wouldn't read the document are not watching your videos at home.

I have stats on both, and I know more people look at the video's.

Also can see people being more successful with learning new system when they have videos to refer to. Obviously YMMV.

bucketybuck · 18-06-2021 1:43pm

Its very clear from this thread that there are a lot of posters in very specific jobs that simply cannot comprehend that not all businesses are the same.

So we get a bunch of IT guys who do projects utterly baffled that the world is not made up of nothing but IT guys doing projects.

Meanwhile in the real world...

18-06-2021 2:07pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its very clear from this thread that there are a lot of posters in very specific jobs that simply cannot comprehend that not all businesses are the same.

So we get a bunch of IT guys who do projects utterly baffled that the world is not made up of nothing but IT guys doing projects.

Meanwhile in the real world...

It's remarkable.

When I started my office job, I shadowed a senior for like two months. Literally following him around. Learning international contacts. Being introduced to people on the phone. Getting taken around learning how teams cooperate. How to use Bloomberg. How to talk to Bloomberg support. Then doing his work while he monitored. So much stuff.

On a daily basis when I was up to speed, there was constant communication amongst our team, and with others. After a year on a half, I was automating processes in a brand new role as a coder in a non-coder job. Going around teams, learning what they were doing, and talking to them about how it could be automated and errors reduced.

As it any of that is possible with a 15-minute daily meeting. That's what I meant by blinkered a few pages back. People here building out a few endpoints for an API and reporting back at 4pm having no understanding that other office jobs can be totally different. Thinking slack can replace everything.

Flinty997 · 18-06-2021 2:16pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its very clear from this thread that there are a lot of posters in very specific jobs that simply cannot comprehend that not all businesses are the same.

So we get a bunch of IT guys who do projects utterly baffled that the world is not made up of nothing but IT guys doing projects.

Meanwhile in the real world...

The majority of our activity is not IT related. But what works in IT works in other departments like finance and other sectors. It's the principles of management thats the same. The idea that what works in one place won't work in another is rarely true.

What is true is you need people willing to embrace change. That is partially cultural in an organisation, or within a team or specific people or managers. It's a people problem.

Mrs OBumble · 18-06-2021 2:22pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's remarkable.

When I started my office job, I shadowed a senior for like two months. Literally following him around. Learning international contacts. Being introduced to people on the phone. Getting taken around learning how teams cooperate. How to use Bloomberg. How to talk to Bloomberg support. Then doing his work while he monitored. So much stuff.

On a daily basis when I was up to speed, there was constant communication amongst our team, and with others. After a year on a half, I was automating processes in a brand new role as a coder in a non-coder job. Going around teams, learning what they were doing, and talking to them about how it could be automated and errors reduced.

As it any of that is possible with a 15-minute daily meeting. That's what I meant by blinkered a few pages back. People here building out a few endpoints for an API and reporting back at 4pm having no understanding that other office jobs can be totally different. Thinking slack can replace everything.

You forgot the bit about all middle managers being a waste of space.

Jackben75 · 21-06-2021 9:45am

Deleted User wrote: »

It's remarkable.

When I started my office job, I shadowed a senior for like two months. Literally following him around. Learning international contacts. Being introduced to people on the phone. Getting taken around learning how teams cooperate. How to use Bloomberg. How to talk to Bloomberg support. Then doing his work while he monitored. So much stuff.

On a daily basis when I was up to speed, there was constant communication amongst our team, and with others. After a year on a half, I was automating processes in a brand new role as a coder in a non-coder job. Going around teams, learning what they were doing, and talking to them about how it could be automated and errors reduced.

As it any of that is possible with a 15-minute daily meeting. That's what I meant by blinkered a few pages back. People here building out a few endpoints for an API and reporting back at 4pm having no understanding that other office jobs can be totally different. Thinking slack can replace everything.

bizarre post, the 15 min standup is not meant for what you describe. The first part i.e bloomberg is user training, "Going around teams, learning what they are doing" - gathering requirements, easily organised/done via a meeting with said end user(s), api reference paragraph is bizarre. You either haven't a clue or are a young fish with a couple of years experience. :pac:

21-06-2021 2:21pm

Jackben75 wrote: »

bizarre post, the 15 min standup is not meant for what you describe. The first part i.e bloomberg is user training, "Going around teams, learning what they are doing" - gathering requirements, easily organised/done via a meeting with said end user(s), api reference paragraph is bizarre. You either haven't a clue or are a young fish with a couple of years experience. :pac:

Yeah, you're right actually. I'm just a moron.

Jackben75 · 21-06-2021 2:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, you're right actually. I'm just a moron.

good you acknowledge, now back to soi cowboy with you!

21-06-2021 2:27pm

Jackben75 wrote: »

good you acknowledge, now back to soi cowboy with you!

You should always suspect when someone is self deprecating like that, that they are confident doing so from an elevated position.

JimmyVik · 21-06-2021 3:04pm

Jackben75 wrote: »

bizarre post, the 15 min standup is not meant for what you describe. The first part i.e bloomberg is user training, "Going around teams, learning what they are doing" - gathering requirements, easily organised/done via a meeting with said end user(s), api reference paragraph is bizarre. You either haven't a clue or are a young fish with a couple of years experience. :pac:

Proving again that the only world you know is your own one

Flinty997 · 21-06-2021 3:12pm

I assumed it was beer talking.

Wilmol · 24-06-2021 11:00pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's remarkable.

When I started my office job, I shadowed a senior for like two months. Literally following him around. Learning international contacts. Being introduced to people on the phone. Getting taken around learning how teams cooperate. How to use Bloomberg. How to talk to Bloomberg support. Then doing his work while he monitored. So much stuff.

On a daily basis when I was up to speed, there was constant communication amongst our team, and with others. After a year on a half, I was automating processes in a brand new role as a coder in a non-coder job. Going around teams, learning what they were doing, and talking to them about how it could be automated and errors reduced.

As it any of that is possible with a 15-minute daily meeting. That's what I meant by blinkered a few pages back. People here building out a few endpoints for an API and reporting back at 4pm having no understanding that other office jobs can be totally different. Thinking slack can replace everything.

Oh so you are a financial guru who carries his company and also a coding expert? Boards seem to be filled with geniuses.

AndrewJRenko · 04-07-2021 12:11pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its very clear from this thread that there are a lot of posters in very specific jobs that simply cannot comprehend that not all businesses are the same.

So we get a bunch of IT guys who do projects utterly baffled that the world is not made up of nothing but IT guys doing projects.

Meanwhile in the real world...

The real problem is when the bunch of 20/30-something IT guys design their IT products to work for 20/30-something IT guys, and not for people with poor eyesight or hearing, or people with shaky hands, or people with poor language skills or people with poor IT literacy.

They design for themselves and their peers instead of designing for the widest customer base.

0lddog · 05-07-2021 9:03pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The real problem is when the bunch of 20/30-something IT guys design their IT products to work for 20/30-something IT guys, and not for people with poor eyesight or hearing, or people with shaky hands, or people with poor language skills or people with poor IT literacy.

They design for themselves and their peers instead of designing for the widest customer base.

Did you mean to post this on the BoI app support thread ?

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