Employer wants us back on site🙁

wicklow_hunter

Hi All

looking for ppls views on this

Office worker working for a multinational pharma company in south east. I was office based and been remote working since COVID kicked off

Employer sent out a mail and wants us back on site.
I’ve been on site 3-4 times since the pandemic began.
However senior management are banging the ‘back to office’ drum full time.

I’m very disappointed that they are not following government guidance on holding back for another month or two.

I’ve expressed my discontent on the matter to my manager but are still insisting that we go bk to the office 5 days a week.


I’m not vaccinated and personally not comfortable sharing an office with 16 other ppl for 39 hrs a week ðŸ˜

Middle Managers and site manager have there own offices and the rest of us are lumped into various offices spread over the site

What should I do next ?

I’m not in a union so there’s no1 to fight my corner only myself.

Any options or ideas to delay going back ?

Has your employer followed back to work safety protocols and put policies in place to protect employees when they return to their offices?

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/22829a-return-to-work-safely-protocol/

NIMAN

Same here too.

But knew it had to end some time.

Looking at your situation, I would imagine you will have to wear masks when in the office?

Your low level so little risk and certainly less so than people in tourism and entertainment.

The country is either reopening or it's not.

jackboy

I know from working for a multi national that the quantity and quality of work being carried out by most at home is rubbish. I’m not surprised companies are trying to get people back.

wicklow_hunter

NIMAN wrote: »

Same here too.

But knew it had to end some time.

Looking at your situation, I would imagine you will have to wear masks when in the office?

Yes

Padre_Pio

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Your low level so little risk and certainly less so than people in tourism and entertainment.

The country is either reopening or it's not.

The government has guidelines that should be followed regardless of individual risk assessment

All staff should continue to work from home to the greatest extent possible. The employer should develop and consult on any working from home policy in conjunction with workers and/or Trades Unions. Guidance on Working from Home is available from the HSA. Resilience and Recovery: the Path Ahead plan, continues to recommend that only essential workers or other designated workers should attend the workplace.

punisher5112

What's the issue?

I've worked since the start all the way through dealing with the public etc every day.

wicklow_hunter

punisher5112 wrote: »

What's the issue?

I've worked since the start all the way through dealing with the public etc every day.

Management are not following government guidelines. Leo was talking about august for office workers to return

CosmicFool

If they want you back you'll have to go back. Just make sure that they have policies in place. Social distancing, wearing masks, hand sanitiser, flow paths but as it is a pharma company I'm sure they will. It had to happen at some point.

JamBur

Sorry if this seems harsh but in my opinion, this strikes of malingering. Im sure your employer will have all the appropriate precautions in place. They pay your salary, so you need to play be their rules.

Locotastic

punisher5112 wrote: »

What's the issue?

I've worked since the start all the way through dealing with the public etc every day.

Same here, my office never closed at all (even though job can easily be done from home).

It's was a case of go to work or find a new job.

wicklow_hunter

I’m curious to know how much can I push bk b4 I over step the Mark.

I still believe that government guidance is there to protect ppl. I feel that we are just being bullied bk to the office irrespective of Heath risks by the powers that b within the organisation

punisher5112

wicklow_hunter wrote: »

Management are not following government guidelines. Leo was talking about august for office workers to return

But yet I've worked all the way through, doctors, nurses, bin men etc etc etc....
Sure even driving lessons and tests.... Sure they're that close they be touching arms and sat right beside eachother.

If the office is huge and everyone had their own desk then I don't see the issue.

JamBur

wicklow_hunter wrote: »

I’m curious to know how much can I push bk b4 I over step the Mark.

I still believe that government guidance is there to protect ppl. I feel that we are just being bullied bk to the office irrespective of Heath risks by the powers that b within the organisation

You sound like you are trolling us now.....

NIMAN

I think the issue is that some of us got too comfortable WFH.

It was nice to get up 5min before work, be home immediately after, no commute, not having to deal with irritating colleagues!

But we all knew it wasn't for keeps.
And now the guys who pay the wages simply want us back in. Can't really argue.

Was good while it lasted .

zackory

wicklow_hunter wrote: »

Management are not following government guidelines. Leo was talking about august for office workers to return

"Guidelines" - not laws.

I deal with a number of WFH people and its just not good.

Going forward and I can see WFH being on a case by case or part time basis.

As regards your safety, spare a though for people working in Dunnes and McDonalds etc. for the past 15 months.

SimonTemplar

jackboy wrote: »

I know from working for a multi national that the quantity and quality of work being carried out by most at home is rubbish. I’m not surprised companies are trying to get people back.

I think that's a big generalization. There has been no noticeable drop of productivity in my company and we all have the option of continuing to work from home once the pandemic is over.

It makes sense because pre-pandemic I could spend the entire day in the office and barely speak to anyone in the office because most of the people I deal with are off-site.

Although I appreciate it is different for other roles / industries.

wicklow_hunter

zackory wrote: »

"Guidelines" - not laws.

I deal with a number of WFH people and its just not good.

Going forward and I can see WFH being on a case by case or part time basis.

As regards your safety, spare a though for people working in Dunnes and McDonalds etc. for the past 15 months.

The funny thing is my boss middle manager is wfh for over a year. That was for personal reasons pre pandemic Different strokes for different folkes 🀔

Locotastic

wicklow_hunter wrote: »

I’m curious to know how much can I push bk b4 I over step the Mark.

I still believe that government guidance is there to protect ppl. I feel that we are just being bullied bk to the office irrespective of Heath risks by the powers that b within the organisation

You do not have a 'right' to work from home. If your employer wants you on site then that's up to them.

And then it's up to you to decide whether you want to work for them or not.

The DayDream

You're not working with the public, so temperature checks at the door, masks, screens, sanitizer, and learning to step back not forward when conversing with a colleague and you should be fine.

That's what we do at my work, we also serve about 20 members of the public and share 3 workstations amongst 6 of us on each day. We have been back open since last August (essential service). No one has gotten sick and we are in a county with high cases.

You have to have robust measures in place and there has to be a manager willing to be a pain in the hole to remind everyone about them. My cousin worked in a place didn't take it seriously enough, he caught covid from a customer but recovered.

16 people in an office you can manage keeping measures in place easily and the only danger is they are totally asymptomatic, no fever etc. I take temperatures of customers and colleagues all day one day a week, never had anyone enter the building not pass the temp check and as I said we didnt get any outbreaks. People also are very aware of the symptoms at this stage.

JamBur

I think the consensus is that you have no right to be indignant about being told to go back to the office.

wexwitch

Not a personal dig at the OP 🙂

I've been back working full time, since April 2020, 40 hr weeks, temperature checks every few hours, mask on 8 hours a day. I work with about 30 people, we social distance as best as we can, not always possible.

I'm not vaccinated, I've had 2 covid tests in this time, both negative.

I think people are careful, respectful and fully aware of covid procedures etc. in the workplace.

You'll probably have to go back to the office, you will get used to it. It's probably a daunting thought at the moment, but once you are back a day or two it'll be like you never left.

Good luck OP and stay safe. 🙂

alibab

What age group are you they are flying through the Vacination now and in the 30s in the area you are based . Let’s look at the risk . Employer follows guidelines and has everything in place . Staff depending on age a lot may be vaccinated at least first dose and a lot maybe even second dose . Working from home was never going to last it’s time now to come back to some semblance or normality and your employer wants you back on site . If not happy maybe consider your options for other employment if you are this concerned. How far can you push it . You can’t go back to work or seek other employment. Lots of us never worked from home and we are all ok . Majority didn’t contract covid due to taking precautions in the workplace. Your risk is low hence the company bringing you back . Get on with it or move ,

whodafunk

I have been in the office everyday since this whole thing began. While on one hand it would be nice to spend more time at home I just had to go with it. I guess nobody ever expected it would go on so long. My wife found it tough when I was in work and the schools were off with the kids at home and herself trying to do her own work also. I think if your employer asks you to come back to the office then you have to. I think some people have got very comfortable at home - I know a lot of people feel this way from speaking with others.

Padre_Pio

punisher5112 wrote: »

What's the issue?

I've worked since the start all the way through dealing with the public etc every day.

I presume the issue is the OPs employer is not following government guidelines and not taking a risk-based approach to bring people back to work.

The OP feels they are rightly at a greater risk of contracting COVID as a direct result of this.

ongarite

Been working on site at large multinational nearly daily since April last year.
Protocols are in place with reduced capacity canteen, office spaces, weekly antigen testing for certain staff and masks at all times.
It's totally become the new normal now.

Padre_Pio

alibab wrote: »

What age group are you they are flying through the Vacination now and in the 30s in the area you are based . Let’s look at the risk . Employer follows guidelines and has everything in place .

OP says this is not the case

alibab wrote: »

Staff depending on age a lot may be vaccinated at least first dose and a lot maybe even second dose .

Maybe, maybe not.

alibab wrote: »

Lots of us never worked from home and we are all ok . Majority didn’t contract covid due to taking precautions in the workplace. Your risk is low hence the company bringing you back . Get on with it or move ,

I assume your employer put measures in place? The OP's employer is not, according to his post.

realdanbreen

wicklow_hunter wrote: »

The funny thing is my boss middle manager is wfh for over a year. That was for personal reasons pre pandemic Different strokes for different folkes 🀔

Where are you working?

Wizard!

Meanwhile worldwide...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryanrobinson/2021/06/11/the-great-resignation-migration-and-what-this-means-for-your-career

TP_CM

I think I'd survive going back and I think those closest to me would too but i simply don't want to. But instead of telling them i don't want to, I will just tell them that if the chief medical officer of the country is advising me to stay home, I'm staying home and if you want you can fire me, I'll enjoy taking you to court. Might not win, but the papers will have a field day telling everyone about the employer who forced their employees to unnecessarily go back to the office during a pandemic which may or may not be over right now.

Maybe you're the resistance the company needs right now OP. If I were you, I simply wouldn't go back. They're not going to drag you there. I would just let them know you're looking into it or something. They'll get that you're reluctant. As long as you're getting the job done I don't think they can fire you.

It'd be really interesting to see any legal cases which actually come out of this. One side arguing they do a better job at home, the other side saying they simply want them on site. I wonder what the legal situation is there.

Feets

wicklow_hunter wrote: »

I’m curious to know how much can I push bk b4 I over step the Mark.

I still believe that government guidance is there to protect ppl. I feel that we are just being bullied bk to the office irrespective of Heath risks by the powers that b within the organisation

Your company is a private company and has the right to request people come back. The government departments already have some if not a lot of office staff back. From a company perspective, staff who drag their heels will be remembered.

It is normal to be nervous but think of how many people are already back - some never worked from home. The longer it is put off, maybe the harder it's getting?

Rrrrrr2

jackboy wrote: »

I know from working for a multi national that the quantity and quality of work being carried out by most at home is rubbish. I’m not surprised companies are trying to get people back.

Can you be a bit more specific? Is this true? I’m hearing the opposite from others anecdotally? Perhaps it very much depends on the nature of the work?

Rrrrrr2

TP_CM wrote: »

I think I'd survive going back and I think those closest to me would too but i simply don't want to. But instead of telling them i don't want to, I will just tell them that if the chief medical officer of the country is advising me to stay home, I'm staying home and if you want you can fire me, I'll enjoy taking you to court. Might not win, but the papers will have a field day telling everyone about the employer who forced their employees to unnecessarily go back to the office during a pandemic which may or may not be over right now.

Maybe you're the resistance the company needs right now OP. If I were you, I simply wouldn't go back. They're not going to drag you there. I would just let them know you're looking into it or something. They'll get that you're reluctant. As long as you're getting the job done I don't think they can fire you.

It'd be really interesting to see any legal cases which actually come out of this. One side arguing they do a better job at home, the other side saying they simply want them on site. I wonder what the legal situation is there.

Unfortunately this approach is unlikely to get you very far. Location of work is likely explicitly stated in the contract originally signed by the OP and is at the discretion of the employer.
Any legal cases wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. Good luck in your career with that one too

Padre_Pio

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I assume your employer put measures in place? The OP's employer is not, according to his post.

Where did the op say this?

I asked the op early in the thread if back to work safety protocols recommended by the HSA have been put in place by his/her employer, the op has not answered.

Padre_Pio

Dav010 wrote: »

Where did the op say this?

I asked the op early in the thread if back to work safety protocols recommended by the HSA have been put in place by his/her employer, the op has not answered.

Post 9

wicklow_hunter wrote: »

Management are not following government guidelines. Leo was talking about august for office workers to return

No more information than that.
I don't know why people are assuming the opposite.

TP_CM

TP_CM wrote: »

But instead of telling them i don't want to, I will just tell them that if the chief medical officer of the country is advising me to stay home, I'm staying home and if you want you can fire me, I'll enjoy taking you to court. Might not win, but the papers will have a field day telling everyone about the employer who forced their employees to unnecessarily go back to the office during a pandemic.

The important word in your post is “advice”. Considering the country is reopening, I doubt your case would be newsworthy, particularly if safety protocols are in place.

Incidentally, Government policy does not always coincide with CMO’s advice.

Idioteque

jackboy wrote: »

I know from working for a multi national that the quantity and quality of work being carried out by most at home is rubbish. I’m not surprised companies are trying to get people back.

Our office is currently being reconfigured as the main reason people will go to it is for collaboration and chance encounters with colleagues you usually wouldn’t talk to in your normal day to day.

The days of people commuting long hours to mostly sit at individual desks working solely on computers is going. Do the solo work at home and go to the office only when really needed will be the norm for certain types of work.

In saying all of that. The option is there for employees who want to go to office every day of the week but from a recent employee survey, this is less than 5% of people. Also, anyone underperforming or found to be taking the p*ss will obviously have their options limited.

Edit - typed on iPad and lost first part of my post. Essentially it said that I work in a multinational and we're the opposite. Productivity is either the same or higher since pre Covid. Also employee satisfaction, engagement and work-life balance is at it's highest ever.

Wizard!

Feets wrote: »

The government departments already have some if not a lot of office staff back.

Where? I am working in DSP and we are not allowed in the office. Very few exceptions, people that need to access parer archives.

wicklow_hunter

Dav010 wrote: »

Where did the op say this?

I asked the op early in the thread if back to work safety protocols recommended by the HSA have been put in place by his/her employer, the op has not answered.

Yes , protocols are in place

The chan chan man

There’s going to be loads of this moaning about having to go to work again. Time to get the finger out now and get back to the office.

alibab

Padre_Pio wrote: »

OP says this is not the case

Maybe, maybe not.


I assume your employer put measures in place? The OP's employer is not, according to his post.

How do you know according to his posts he hasn’t been in the office to find out what has and has not been done . In the area he is working in the are in the 30 to 40 age group are being Vaccinated this is fact if people choose not to get it different matter completely. The risk is low the company know this go back to work like mandated or find a new job ,

stargazer 68

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Post 9


No more information than that.
I don't know why people are assuming the opposite.

Because that's guidelines not procedures in place. Op hasn't said anything about procedures that the employer has or hasn't put in - temp checks, masks etc.

wicklow_hunter

alibab wrote: »

How do you know according to his posts he hasn’t been in the office to find out what has and has not been done . In the area he is working in the are in the 30 to 40 age group are being Vaccinated this is fact if people choose not to get it different matter completely. The risk is low the company know this go back to work like mandated or find a new job ,

I’ve been in a few times , yes all protocols are in place

timeToLive

Why would OP care that McDonald's/shop workers have been in the whole time?


The employer is putting employees and everyone at risk and it should be discouraged and shamed for doing so imo. OP never signed up to use his home as his office but did anyway because it was needed. That should be respected by the employer and safety should be #1.

Who wants to wear a mask walking around the office? Sitting at their desk in zoom calls instead of meeting rooms? Not being able to use the tea area or bathrooms because someone else using it? The office environment is not ready yet.

stargazer 68

wicklow_hunter wrote: »

I’ve been in a few times , yes all protocols are in place

Well then get back to work!

alibab

wicklow_hunter wrote: »

I’ve been in a few times , yes all protocols are in place

So explain to me the problem. Are you trying to pull the piss or are you genuinely worried about going back to work .

Rrrrrr2

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Post 9


No more information than that.
I don't know why people are assuming the opposite.

That guidelines relating to return to office rather than the appropriate protocols whilst back in office as I understand it. Two quite different things really

wicklow_hunter

timeToLive wrote: »

Why would OP care that McDonald's/shop workers have been in the whole time?


The employer is putting employees and everyone at risk and it should be discouraged and shamed for doing so imo. OP never signed up to use his home as his office but did anyway because it was needed. That should be respected by the employer and safety should be #1.

Who wants to wear a mask walking around the office? Sitting at their desk in zoom calls instead of meeting rooms? Not being able to use the tea area or bathrooms because someone else using it? The office environment is not ready yet.

I asked for a desk and I was declined... I had to fund light heat, ink paper etc not once did they ask did we need anything.

alibab

timeToLive wrote: »

Why would OP care that McDonald's/shop workers have been in the whole time?


The employer is putting employees and everyone at risk and it should be discouraged and shamed for doing so imo. OP never signed up to use his home as his office but did anyway because it was needed. That should be respected by the employer and safety should be #1.

Who wants to wear a mask walking around the office? Sitting at their desk in zoom calls instead of meeting rooms? Not being able to use the tea area or bathrooms because someone else using it? The office environment is not ready yet.

Because most of us in work in offices have bring doing the above since covid began with protocols in place , you get on with it as you are employed and paid to do so . The key is paid to work wherever once company has put everything in place,

Foggy Jew

jackboy wrote: »

I know from working for a multi national that the quantity and quality of work being carried out by most at home is rubbish. I’m not surprised companies are trying to get people back.

Sorry - but this is absolute tosh. I’m a Civil Servant. In March 2020 we were plunged into WFH. Before the pandemic, there would have been committees, steering committees, sub committes, working groups, project management groups and God knows what else formed to assess whether WFH was feasible. But with no warning, we were all tossed into working from home. And guess what? The business of government went ahead. Social welfare payments were made, planning applications were considered, pension applications were dealt with..... Life went on. The public were well served. By Civil Servants sitting in their spare bedrooms or kitchen tables. Working remotely with no access to printers or scanners. I think these civil servants, mostly lower paid, deserve a round of applause for keeping the show on the road in very difficult working environments. DISCLAIMER. I am a Civil Servant.