Canvassing problems

nesf · 25-02-2014 10:15pm

28064212 wrote: »

At no stage did I say I thought it was a good idea, only that I don't believe it constitutes harassment

Eh, harassment is a fairly broad word. It covers everything from me constantly bugging you about something to me pushing you up against a wall and demanding something from you in common language.

Legally, you're probably correct but I don't think anyone is using it in the legal sense here.

Fred Swanson · 26-02-2014 1:21am

This post has been deleted.

A.J.Plumb · 04-03-2014 10:53pm

No canvassers in this neck of the woods just yet....can't wait to get at some of them. !

sillyoulfool · 06-03-2014 11:52am

Simple way to avoid the problem is to put a sign on the door No Canvassers.

16-04-2014 9:04pm

An independent canvasser knocked on my door tonight, smoking a cigarette. He showed me no respect, so I'll return the favour Election day.

DazMarz · 23-04-2014 10:17pm

A couple of rules I've been abiding by when I'm out canvassing lately:

-First and foremost, one short ring of the bell OR one brief knock on the door. Never both.

-First words out of your mouth when someone answers the door is to apologise for disturbing their evening. Because, in all fairness, that is exactly what you are doing. Nobody sits at home with bated breath, looking forward to someone coming knocking on their door. It is, generally, taking them away from their dinner, a football match on the telly, time with their kids, etc. So just remember that they are doing you a favour by even answering the door.

-Respect "No Junk Mail" signs; if they don't want election material through the door, respect that. Putting leaflets in through a door with a "No Junk Mail" sign is just rude, IMO.

-Always, always thank the person for their time when you are leaving.

-Cut off time is 9pm at the absolute latest. After 9pm, pack up and head back to campaign HQ with the rest of the canvassers for a well deserved cup of tea and a biccie.

-Courtesy, respect and honesty are what people want; never forget that.

Annasopra · 24-04-2014 1:19pm

DazMarz wrote: »

A couple of rules I've been abiding by when I'm out canvassing lately:

-First and foremost, one short ring of the bell OR one brief knock on the door. Never both.

-First words out of your mouth when someone answers the door is to apologise for disturbing their evening. Because, in all fairness, that is exactly what you are doing. Nobody sits at home with bated breath, looking forward to someone coming knocking on their door. It is, generally, taking them away from their dinner, a football match on the telly, time with their kids, etc. So just remember that they are doing you a favour by even answering the door.

-Respect "No Junk Mail" signs; if they don't want election material through the door, respect that. Putting leaflets in through a door with a "No Junk Mail" sign is just rude, IMO.

-Always, always thank the person for their time when you are leaving.

-Cut off time is 9pm at the absolute latest. After 9pm, pack up and head back to campaign HQ with the rest of the canvassers for a well deserved cup of tea and a biccie.

-Courtesy, respect and honesty are what people want; never forget that.

Number 2 - dont think I agree with it as it suggests a negative something you have to apologise for. Its almost like politicians should apologise for their existence.

Number 3 - most politicians and parties dont see their literature as "junk" and I tend to agree. Its political information not commercial advertising. In fact Id also most people with those signs also wouldnt see it as Junk.

DazMarz · 24-04-2014 10:33pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Number 2 - dont think I agree with it as it suggests a negative something you have to apologise for. Its almost like politicians should apologise for their existence.

Number 3 - most politicians and parties dont see their literature as "junk" and I tend to agree. Its political information not commercial advertising. In fact Id also most people with those signs also wouldnt see it as Junk.

Maybe #2 is just being overly cautious. But I would see it as something to just get on side with people. A little courtesy instead of just launching into a spiel.

I was actually talking with another candidate about this; he said that he conducted a survey amongst householders and voters. Political only pamphlets and so on WERE (mostly) considered junk mail by them. However, cards with useful phone numbers and so on, were not. There is a candidate in the Bray district who gets a very good response from a card with a calender and lists of useful local phone numbers and websites.

Maybe I'm being overly cautious, but I don't believe in needlessly pissing people off with political stuff when most people are totally disillusioned with politics anyway!

Boulevardier · 26-04-2014 11:50am

Regarding "no junk mail" signs, our local party's view is that political communications are not junk mail, and so we leave a leaflet. However, I do not leave a leaflet when the sign is more explicit, e.g. "Posted letters only" or "No election literature."

As for knocking, what we do is consistent : ring the bell once, and perhaps knock or ring a second time 30 seconds later, but that's it.

Problems have arisen in cases where the bell is not audible from the outside, and so the canvasser is not sure if it is working. In those cases I knock once in addition to ringing the bell.

The other night I was chewed out by an occupier for harassing her, and when I tried to explain that the bell was inaudible, she slammed the door on me. Oh well, thats folk.

rubadub · 02-05-2014 4:56pm

Boulevardier wrote: »

Regarding "no junk mail" signs, our local party's view is that political communications are not junk mail, and so we leave a leaflet. However, I do not leave a leaflet when the sign is more explicit, e.g. "Posted letters only" or "No election literature."

FFS, of course they don't want your litter, I expect some similarly dodgy & invasive pizza company is out there who also does not consider there leaflets to be "junk" and so will only not post it if there is a sign specifically saying "no pizza vouchers".

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I would like to see all forms of unsolicited mail and cold calling made illegal, its a perfect cover story for burglars checking out properties.

I have far more issue with election posters though, I saw 2 labour ones only put up in the last few days, both illegal as they are classed as litter due to violation the safety guidelines laid out by the county council. On also violating both the councils and ESBs warnings against the danger of fire. But worst of all the sign is diamond shaped and desgined to look like a red & white compulsory offical warning sign. Absolute scumbags deliberately distracting motorists, and to top it all its right outside a school. The mind boggles...

Sully · 02-05-2014 6:05pm

rubadub wrote: »

FFS, of course they don't want your litter, I expect some similarly dodgy & invasive pizza company is out there who also does not consider there leaflets to be "junk" and so will only not post it if there is a sign specifically saying "no pizza vouchers".

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I would like to see all forms of unsolicited mail and cold calling made illegal, its a perfect cover story for burglars checking out properties.

I have far more issue with election posters though, I saw 2 labour ones only put up in the last few days, both illegal as they are classed as litter due to violation the safety guidelines laid out by the county council. On also violating both the councils and ESBs warnings against the danger of fire. But worst of all the sign is diamond shaped and desgined to look like a red & white compulsory offical warning sign. Absolute scumbags deliberately distracting motorists, and to top it all its right outside a school. The mind boggles...

Election material isn't 'junk'. Nor is anything official that's important for the running of our country or your area. That's why the vast majority ignore the signs and most people are happy with that. Unless a notice is up saying no election material.

In terms of knocking, unless the doorbell is heard i'll generally knock and give it a few seconds before leaving a leaflet in. A lot of people think they were ignored when the majority of the time they didn't hear or weren't in. It happens to the best of canvassers. Often candidates do a leaflet drop because they don't have the team to do a canvas.

sunshine and showers · 02-05-2014 6:14pm

DazMarz wrote: »

A couple of rules I've been abiding by when I'm out canvassing lately:

-First and foremost, one short ring of the bell OR one brief knock on the door. Never both.

-First words out of your mouth when someone answers the door is to apologise for disturbing their evening. Because, in all fairness, that is exactly what you are doing. Nobody sits at home with bated breath, looking forward to someone coming knocking on their door. It is, generally, taking them away from their dinner, a football match on the telly, time with their kids, etc. So just remember that they are doing you a favour by even answering the door.

-Respect "No Junk Mail" signs; if they don't want election material through the door, respect that. Putting leaflets in through a door with a "No Junk Mail" sign is just rude, IMO.

-Always, always thank the person for their time when you are leaving.

-Cut off time is 9pm at the absolute latest. After 9pm, pack up and head back to campaign HQ with the rest of the canvassers for a well deserved cup of tea and a biccie.

-Courtesy, respect and honesty are what people want; never forget that.

And never forget to close the gate behind you!

Fred Swanson · 02-05-2014 6:15pm

This post has been deleted.

uck51js9zml2yt · 02-05-2014 6:25pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Me too. Plenty of leaflets despite my no junk mail sticker though.

I want a canvasser to call... Can boardsies help me?

rubadub · 02-05-2014 6:30pm

Sully wrote: »

Election material isn't 'junk'.

And the other advertisters who ignore the sign probably say the same "how dare they call my menu junk". I have far less issue with them posting it to me via normal methods.

junk mail
nouninformal
noun: junkmail
unsolicited advertising or promotional material received through the post.
"she tossed the junk mail in the bin"

This is what most understand it to be, its a colloquial term, people seem to be getting upset at the word junk, its just another way of saying unaddressed mail.

Sully wrote: »

Unless a notice is up saying no election material..

this is laughable, expecting people to have all sorts of things listed that they don't want just because some particular group do not regard their stuff as junk. Junkmail covers it.

The onus should be on YOU to ASK if they regard it as unwanted, -but the problem here is people tend to be polite instead of saying what they really think. This is why so many door to door sellers do not think most people have no issue.

If people with no junkmail signs wanted election stuff they would put up a sign saying so, or take the sign down during election periods, as its safer to presume you do not want it with a sign up.

I see waterfordwhispers are even taking the piss out of these disrespectful self righteous scumbags

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/04/24/election-canvassers-vow-to-ignore-no-junk-mail-stickers/

Election Canvassers Vow To Ignore “No Junk Mail” Stickers
April 24, 2014

Political canvassers for the upcoming Local and European elections have issued a promise to deliver pamphlets and literature through the letterboxes of every house in Ireland, regardless of “No Junk Mail” stickers.
Spokespersons from all parties have issued statements confirming that their door-to-door campaigners can both see the letterplate stickers and have the intellectual capacity to read and understand the anti-pamphlet messages. However, they are choosing to flat out ignore them and deliver their literature anyway.
“We’re committed to deliver Election Candidate Information to 100% of households” said Fianna Fáil Campaign Manager Richard Head.
“We know the other parties are doing it, so we don’t want to be the only ones that respect the wishes of the electorate. We were issuing statements that we did not regard our pamphlets to actually be junk mail, in the chipper menu/ used clothing appeal sense of the phrase, but now we’re admitting that we just don’t care”.
Irked by the constant stream of unsolicited political manifestos on their doormats every evening, some homeowners have tried to rephrase their Junk Mail stickers in an effort to deter canvassers.
“We had a ‘No Junk Mail’ sticker on the door, but it did no good” said Leitrim man Ian Gorman, speaking exclusively to WWN.
“When we kept getting leaflet after leaflet, I went out with a black marker and changed it to ‘No Junk Mail, This Includes Political Material’, but still no joy. I changed it again this morning to ‘Stick your campaign leaflets up your hole’, so we’ll have to see if that works”.

To the canvassers who refuse to accept that their leaflets are junk, would you still disobey a sign saying "no unaddressed mail", this seems to be a commonly used term, and cannot really be argued against, as "junk" does have negative connotations. So will you ignore this?

http://www.askcomreg.ie/post/can_i_stop_unsolicited_mail.3.232.LE.asp

Can I stop unsolicited mail?

We do not regulate this area, but there are a number of steps you can take to stop unsolicited mail, such as:
Put a sticker on your letter box that states you don’t want unaddressed mail (or 'junk mail') to be delivered to you. For example, write 'no unaddressed mail please'.

Official sites seem to think they are one and the same.

Seeing as most parties violated official safety guidelines form both my local county council and the ESB I suspect they will also wilful violate the wishes of homeowners with "no unaddressed mail" signs.

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/Meetings/2009/DDHWWEDCEC/MAR09.htm

Guidelines Relating to the Display of Election Poster:

1. Election posters should only be erected after an election has been declared and a polling date determined.

2. In accordance with the Litter Pollution Act 1997 election posters and ties must be removed within 7 days after polling date. Failure to do so may result in prosecution. The associated fixing arrangement particularly plastic ties must be removed at the same time the poster is being removed.

3. No adhesive or metal fixings are permitted.

4. All posters should be manufactured from cardboard composites or other recyclable materials.

5. The Party or individual responsible for the poster must be clearly indicated on the poster.

6. Posters must not be erected as follows:

a. on lamp standards with overhead line electricity feed,

b. on traffic signal poles,

c. on bridge parapets, overpasses and on pedestrian bridges

d. on roadside traffic barriers

e. on traffic poles or statutory signage of any type including stop, yield, cycletrack, parking control, etc.

f. on Motorways

g. must not obstruct the view of traffic lights or road signs,

h. must not block or obstruct motorists view of pedestrians, i.e. pedestrian barriers, or railings.

7. There should be a minimum clearance of 2.5 metres (8ft) from the lower edge of any poster to ground level and no posters should be placed higher than 6.5 metres (20ft) from the ground.

8. A maximum of two posters per candidate is permitted on any lamp or standard pole.

9. Political parties/independent candidates are reminded that no claims for damages arising from placing, displaying or removal of their posters will lie with the Council and they may consider it appropriate to take out Public Liability Insurance in this regard.

Election posters that do not comply with these conditions or that are erected on Council property prior to the declaration of an election will be removed by the Council. In the event of a breach of the Litter Pollution Act, 1997 prosecutions may be initiated.

After a brief discussion during which John Guckian answered Members queries, the Councillors requested that the Manager examine the possibility of implementing a scheme similar to Dublin City Council’s system whereby posters are removed at a cost to the parties. J. Guckian AGREED to come back to the Members with a report on the feasibility of this scheme in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown.

http://www.esb.ie/main/press/pressreleaseWS.jsp?id=1114

ESB Networks Safety Notice - Election Posters

ESB Networks is warning against the placing of election posters on electricity poles/structures during the forthcoming Presidential election campaign.

Any unauthorised contact or near contact with the electricity networks can result in serious injury or even death. Anyone attempting to place a poster on an electricity pole/structure is at risk of contact with live electricity which can be fatal. Similar risks apply when posters are being removed.

ESB Networks has previously experienced incidents where election posters have caught fire following contact with the electricity network resulting in loss of supply to customers and damaged infrastructure.

Sully · 02-05-2014 9:56pm

rubadub wrote: »

And the other advertisters who ignore the sign probably say the same "how dare they call my menu junk". I have far less issue with them posting it to me via normal methods.

This is what most understand it to be, its a colloquial term, people seem to be getting upset at the word junk, its just another way of saying unaddressed mail.

this is laughable, expecting people to have all sorts of things listed that they don't want just because some particular group do not regard their stuff as junk. Junkmail covers it.

The onus should be on YOU to ASK if they regard it as unwanted, -but the problem here is people tend to be polite instead of saying what they really think. This is why so many door to door sellers do not think most people have no issue.

If people with no junkmail signs wanted election stuff they would put up a sign saying so, or take the sign down during election periods, as its safer to presume you do not want it with a sign up.

I see waterfordwhispers are even taking the piss out of these disrespectful self righteous scumbags

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/04/24/election-canvassers-vow-to-ignore-no-junk-mail-stickers/

To the canvassers who refuse to accept that their leaflets are junk, would you still disobey a sign saying "no unaddressed mail", this seems to be a commonly used term, and cannot really be argued against, as "junk" does have negative connotations. So will you ignore this?

http://www.askcomreg.ie/post/can_i_stop_unsolicited_mail.3.232.LE.asp

Official sites seem to think they are one and the same.

Once again, election / referendum material should not be considered 'Junk'. It's of national importance, therefore it's not 'junk'. I'd classify it as solicited seeing as you are living in Ireland and therefore are impacted by the decisions made by politicians on a local and national level, it has a very much direct impact on you. If you don't care, and don't want this, put up a notice like the houses that don't want it do.

You are not impacted nor does it have any impact on you indirectly or directly for a free hearing aid, great pizza deals, free newspapers and the like. It's purely and clearly - junk. Rubbish. Irrelevant. Not even remotely can it be considered of importance, even if you feel it's not important it can't even be linked as being important .

Seeing as most parties violated official safety guidelines form both my local county council and the ESB I suspect they will also wilful violate the wishes of homeowners with "no unaddressed mail" signs.

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/Meetings/2009/DDHWWEDCEC/MAR09.htm

http://www.esb.ie/main/press/pressreleaseWS.jsp?id=1114

Every party with most candidates in the party and the vast majority of independent candidates with posters pleaded ignorance to the rules. I believe in Waterford, as an example, they were reminded of the legislation prior to the election but councillors (I recall one Labour guy, a councilor, flooded Waterford with posters before legally being permitted. He also placed them on junctions, roundabouts and below 8 feet.) and candidates pleaded ignorance and forced the council to take action every day to remove offending posters. There is no excuse for this.

In my home town, it's a different council - the County Council. They County Council clearly don't care because posters are all over the place - on junctions, all over roundabouts, and as of this evening Sinn Fein have came along with local & European posters having them less than 1ft above the ground. I was told offenders were asked to remove them by the council following complaints, but as of yet, there still there.

It's not advisable but not illegal to place them on ESB poles.

Fred Swanson · 02-05-2014 10:07pm

This post has been deleted.

Boulevardier · 03-05-2014 3:34pm

If political canvassers refrained from dropping their leaflets, local political activity would be crippled.

There are cases where democracy must trump privacy. This is one of them.

Wicklowrider · 03-05-2014 4:01pm

Sully wrote: »

Election material isn't 'junk'. Nor is anything official that's important for the running of our country or your area. That's why the vast majority ignore the signs and most people are happy with that. Unless a notice is up saying no election material.

You have been told that people consider it junk. It is not a difficult sentence to follow. Since when is a citizen not free to make up their mind what is shoved through their letterbox? My elderly father had canvassers knock on his door last week despite the fact that he has a sign asking them to leave him in peace. I have the same sign ( polite and short) and I sincerely hope, for all our sakes, they will respect my wishes.

Sully · 04-05-2014 11:56am

Wicklowrider wrote: »

You have been told that people consider it junk. It is not a difficult sentence to follow. Since when is a citizen not free to make up their mind what is shoved through their letterbox? My elderly father had canvassers knock on his door last week despite the fact that he has a sign asking them to leave him in peace. I have the same sign ( polite and short) and I sincerely hope, for all our sakes, they will respect my wishes.

Told by someone on the internet? In awful fairness, in my experience, the vast majority of people don't mind political material. Those that do always make it clear and most candidates will respect such signs that state clearly no political leaflets/canvassing.

Sierra Oscar · 04-05-2014 12:36pm

Wicklowrider wrote: »

You have been told that people consider it junk. It is not a difficult sentence to follow. Since when is a citizen not free to make up their mind what is shoved through their letterbox? My elderly father had canvassers knock on his door last week despite the fact that he has a sign asking them to leave him in peace. I have the same sign ( polite and short) and I sincerely hope, for all our sakes, they will respect my wishes.

I have had people on the doors give out to me when I have not put political literature through a postbox due to a "No-Junk" sign, where they say themselves say they do not consider it junk. At first they thought I was being devious by purposeful ignoring their house!

You can't have it both ways. Communication is an important part of democracy. I am sorry if a few information leaflets intended to allow you make an informed decision as to how you vote causes you great offence.

I also often find that the same people who moan that they "never hear from any politicians" are the same people who give out about political literature. Can't win it seems!

If you don't want political literature then consider putting up a sign that specifically states that. It won't be ignored.

rubadub · 06-05-2014 1:30pm

Sully wrote: »

Once again, election / referendum material should not be considered 'Junk'.

Once again, my question

rubadub wrote: »

To the canvassers who refuse to accept that their leaflets are junk, would you still disobey a sign saying "no unaddressed mail", this seems to be a commonly used term, and cannot really be argued against, as "junk" does have negative connotations. So will you ignore this?

Sully wrote: »

Every party with most candidates in the party and the vast majority of independent candidates with posters pleaded ignorance to the rules.

It's not advisable but not illegal to place them on ESB poles.

Ignorance is no defence in court. In that meeting from 2009 covered many ESB poles (with lamps anyway), now I am not sure if those rules still stand but it would appear if you did it then it was regarded as litter which I presume means it was illegal, and ignorance would be no defence. Who in their right mind would go out putting up posters without checking out the laws first.

6. Posters must not be erected as follows:

a. on lamp standards with overhead line electricity feed,

Election posters that do not comply with these conditions or that are erected on Council property prior to the declaration of an election will be removed by the Council. In the event of a breach of the Litter Pollution Act, 1997 prosecutions may be initiated.

I read dun laoghaire rathdown were fining candidates in this election campaign, not sure if this was just for ones gone up too early.

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I am sorry if a few information leaflets intended to allow you make an informed decision as to how you vote causes you great offence.

Its the principle which is offensive. If you are genuinely sorry then you make a better effort to find out if they want them.

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Since when is a citizen not free to make up their mind what is shoved through their letterbox?

I have asked about this before but got no decent answer. i.e. the legality of dumping stuff into peoples houses. Like if I dump an old fridge over the neighbour's wall with "vote labour" painted on it can I simply say "well I saw no sign on his back gate saying no fridges". I wonder if any of the canvassers bothered to look up the law about this practice, its not good enough to say "sure everyone does it", this does not necessarily mean it is legal, loads of people illegally jaywalk without a second thought. If it is legal there must be some sort of limitation on what you can dump.

Rheneas · 11-05-2014 2:07pm

Scott Breezy Ginger wrote: »

Me too. Plenty of leaflets despite my no junk mail sticker though.

I want a canvasser to call... Can boardsies help me?

put up as sign saying politicans welcome and watch them gather nervously at your gate like the penguins in that David Attenborough doc when they knew their predators were lurking

Rheneas · 11-05-2014 2:12pm

I have asked about this before but got no decent answer. i.e. the legality of dumping stuff into peoples houses. Like if I dump an old fridge over the neighbour's wall with "vote labour" painted on it can I simply say "well I saw no sign on his back gate saying no fridges". I wonder if any of the canvassers bothered to look up the law about this practice, its not good enough to say "sure everyone does it", this does not necessarily mean it is legal, loads of people illegally jaywalk without a second thought. If it is legal there must be some sort of limitation on what you can dump.[/QUOTE]

surely the sign would have to say 'no junk fridges' otherwise you could miss out on a really good fridge with an important message on it.

Boulevardier · 12-05-2014 3:52pm

Rheneas, the only way you are going to get things as you want them is to have a legal ban on leaflets through doors. A "no junk mail" sign does not make leaflets (or junk mail) illegal.

Alternatively, a householder could take a leafletting organisation to court over property rights and thus establish a legal precedent. Knowing they could be sued for trespass might change behaviour all right.

Lecturing leafletters, who have broken no laws as far as we know, will not work so you may have to just leave be.

nesf · 12-05-2014 6:20pm

It is plain discourtesy towards people. Junk mail does not mean subjectively "junk" mail, it means unsolicited mail. Election literature from the State is not this, leaflets from candidates most certainly is. It makes no difference if it's delivered personally by hand or via some scheme with An Post.

No junk mail signs should be respected. Hiding behind "but I don't think it's junk" or "they're not legally binding" is being rather silly. There's nothing legally binding about a big "No Canvassers!" sign on my gate either, but I doubt ye'd cross that threshold.

oscarBravo · 12-05-2014 6:33pm

nesf wrote: »

No junk mail signs should be respected. Hiding behind "but I don't think it's junk" or "they're not legally binding" is being rather silly.

It's also self-defeating - why would you vote for a candidate that doesn't respect your wishes?

rubadub · 12-05-2014 6:41pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I have had people on the doors give out to me when I have not put political literature through a postbox due to a "No-Junk" sign, where they say themselves say they do not consider it junk. At first they thought I was being devious by purposeful ignoring their house!

That is very odd, if I had a no junkmail sign I would first jump to the conclusion that you thought this meant "no unaddressed mail", just like Comreg do, and so respected my wishes. How on earth did they come to the conclusion that you were "devious"?

Its not like your job legally obliges you to deliver to them. If the local pizza menu litterer skipped my house I am not going to go out moaning, as though its my right.

How did these people end up complaining to you anyway? how many were there? did they happen to see you walk past, and also see you walk into all the other houses or what?

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

You can't have it both ways.

True, and it seems pretty obvious to me that the more respectful thing to do is view it as a "no unaddressed mail" sign, just like Comreg do. I would much rather face the wrath of someone thinking I skipped their house, than someone saying I am littering their house -seems like simple cop on to me.

Still nobody has answered my question -will you violate a "no unaddressed mail" sign?

I hope people saw this story.

A local election candidate has attempted to extricate his campaign from an ongoing littering row, by paying a fine given to a woman who tore up his election leaflets in front of him. - See more at: http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/news/roundup/articles/2014/05/11/4030170-councillor-pays-fine-for-woman-who-tore-up-his-election-fliers/#sthash.sxmntsbM.dpuf

Dun laoghaire rathdown got back to me with new guidelines, and said they are issued to all parties.

REVISED GUIDELINES ON THE ERECTION AND REMOVAL OF ELECTION POSTERS:

1. Election posters should only be erected (a) not earlier than 30 days before the poll date or (b) from the date the Minister makes the order for the holding of the poll, whichever is the shorter period. The time limit for Referendum posters is not restricted to 30 days. These posters are allowed from the date the polling day order is signed. In this regard the effective date for the erection of posters is not before 12 midnight on Tuesday 22nd of April 2014.

2. In accordance with the Litter Pollution Act 1997 election posters and ties must be removed within 7 days after polling date. Failure to do so may result in prosecution. The associated fixing arrangement particularly plastic ties must be removed at the same time the poster is being removed.

3. No adhesive or metal fixings are permitted.

4. All posters should be manufactured from cardboard composites or other recyclable materials.

5. The Party or individual responsible for the poster must be clearly indicated on the poster.

6. Posters must not be erected as follows:

a. on lamp standards with overhead line electricity feed,

b. on traffic signal poles,

c. on bridge parapets, overpasses and on pedestrian bridges

d. on roundabouts

e. on roadside traffic barriers

f. on traffic poles or statutory signage of any type including stop, yield, cycletrack, parking control, etc.

g. on Motorways

h. must not obstruct the view of traffic lights or road signs,

i. must not block or obstruct motorists view of pedestrians, i.e. pedestrian barriers, or railings or motorists view of other traffic

7. There should be a minimum clearance of 2.5 metres (8ft) from the lower edge of any poster to ground level on footpaths and 3.2metres (10ft) on cycle lanes and no posters should be placed higher than 6.5 metres (20ft) from the ground.

8. A maximum of two posters per candidate is permitted on any lamp or standard pole.

9. Political parties/independent candidates are reminded that no claims for damages arising from placing, displaying or removal of their posters will lie with the Council and they may consider it appropriate to take out Public Liability Insurance in this regard

10. Where the Council incurs costs in the removal of posters these costs may be recovered.

Election posters that do not comply with these conditions or that are erected on Council property prior to the declaration of an election will be removed by the Council. In the event of a breach of the Litter Pollution Act 1997 – 2009, prosecutions may be initiated.

Similar to the 2009 ones, but thankfully have the new rule 10 so are going to charge the parties if they offend and have to remove.

nesf · 12-05-2014 6:45pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

It's also self-defeating - why would you vote for a candidate that doesn't respect your wishes?

Isn't that the whole trick with politics?

Sierra Oscar · 12-05-2014 9:25pm

rubadub wrote: »

That is very odd, if I had a no junkmail sign I would first jump to the conclusion that you thought this meant "no unaddressed mail", just like Comreg do, and so respected my wishes. How on earth did they come to the conclusion that you were "devious"?

They thought I was skipping their house because we did not want to engage with them - often because they might have issues in their local community that need resolving and want to talk to their (perspective) local representatives about it.

rubadub wrote: »

Its not like your job legally obliges you to deliver to them. If the local pizza menu litterer skipped my house I am not going to go out moaning, as though its my right.

I don't consider canvassing to be a job. I am doing it because I want to get someone I know who would make a fantastic contribution to the council / Dáil elected.

I have been involved in many campaigns, and I know one sure way not to get elected is to refrain from sharing your literature with as much of the electorate as possible before election day. People who do not leaflet do not get elected unless they already have some sort of celebrity status.

rubadub wrote: »

How did these people end up complaining to you anyway? how many were there? did they happen to see you walk past, and also see you walk into all the other houses or what?

It is usually curiosity as to why you skipped their house if they just happen to see you walk by but are stopping at all other houses. When you are knocking on the door you also often get the "Ah shur we never heard of you until now" line from those with no junk mail signs if you happen to be limiting your leaflet dropping.

As I said before, not everyone considers political literature as junk.

rubadub wrote: »

Still nobody has answered my question -will you violate a "no unaddressed mail" sign?

Most definitely not. I would never drop a leaflet in a letterbox if it had "addressed mail only" or "no political literature". They are making it very clear there that they also consider political literature to be junk.

Boulevardier · 13-05-2014 9:44am

"It makes no difference if it's delivered personally by hand or via some scheme with An Post."

Nesf, are you saying that even the election literature provided for in legislation and delivered by An Post should be withheld from houses which have "no junk mail" signs?

If so that is a very radical position, and one which would need new legislation.

Fred Swanson · 13-05-2014 10:59am

This post has been deleted.

nesf · 13-05-2014 11:43am

Boulevardier wrote: »

"It makes no difference if it's delivered personally by hand or via some scheme with An Post."

Nesf, are you saying that even the election literature provided for in legislation and delivered by An Post should be withheld from houses which have "no junk mail" signs?

If so that is a very radical position, and one which would need new legislation.

Clearly I didn't say that if you took the time to read my post carefully.

LuckyLloyd · 13-05-2014 11:57am

Boulevardier wrote: »

Regarding "no junk mail" signs, our local party's view is that political communications are not junk mail, and so we leave a leaflet.

Your local party is disconnected and out of touch with the consensus of the local area.

rubadub · 19-05-2014 8:02pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Most definitely not. I would never drop a leaflet in a letterbox if it had "addressed mail only" or "no political literature". They are making it very clear there that they also consider political literature to be junk.

This is just weird. I already linked to show a government regulatory body, Comreg, regards unaddressed mail as junkmail. I also would certainly not think it means they think election material is junk.

If I was running for election I would make sure canvassers erred on the side of caution. Violating a sign indicating they only want mail via the postman is far more likely to lose your a vote than not putting an EXTRA leaflet in the door, in addition to the one the postman presumably did deliver to all houses with signs of any sort up.

I am also left wondering what is on these new leaflet that was omitted from the free one you get to post via normal mail? Did your party leave something out? Do you think the government should give you more free mailings? or larger ones perhaps? was there a limit or something?

Skatedude · 19-05-2014 8:21pm

I have to admit that everyone i talked to considers election flyers to be junk mail, as do I.
it's gotten to the point that the area is just so plastered with signs that actually put me off voting for people that litter up the area.

And i think you will find that many people that are not involved in politics feel similar.

Going Forward · 20-05-2014 7:54am

Who will be first out of the hatch with Thank you for the courtesy afforded to our candidates and canvassers during the recent election '.

Boulevardier · 20-05-2014 12:09pm

The junk mail issue has clearly been thrashed out on this thread.

Just for variety, here are some minor gripes from canvassers' points of view (no blame on householders is intended):

Late answerers. A canvasser has walked away thinking the door is not being answered, when someone opens the door and shouts after them. Embarrassing.

Bells that are inaudible from outside. This will lead a canvasser (who is not sure if the bell is working) to ring a second time or use the knocker. That often leads to accusations of harassment from occupiers.

Houses without bells or postboxes. How do the occupiers know there is anyone out there?

Mingy postboxes. These might be at the bottom of the door and/or have draught-excluders in them. Not pleasant to leaflet.

I'm sure my fellow activists could add to the list!

Fred Swanson · 20-05-2014 12:40pm

This post has been deleted.

rubadub · 20-05-2014 12:49pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If you have a sign up an post are supposed to put you on an official register of people not wanting unaddressed mail.

I hate this practice of the post man putting in unaddressed mail. I nearly missed a parcel in the local post office. They dropped in a notification leaflet to collect it within a certain date but it was in between other leaflets which were folded, so it was just gathered up and dumped in the pile to go in the green bin.

Canvassing problems

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