Canvassing problems

Lovely Bloke

Hi folks, I'm unsure if this is the correct place for this or not.

Last night, while I was out of the house, there was some political party canvassing around the area.

They knocked on our door, but got no answer (my wife is 7 months pregnant and has a broken shoulder to boot, she is not very mobile, and so ignored the caller). It would have been fairly obvious that someone was home, so the canvasser outside just kept knocking, knocking, knocking until my wife was forced to get up and open the door.

This is apalling behaviour, and reflects pretty badly on the party involved. By the way, as soon as my wife heard the name of the party, the door was promptly shut in the face of the canvasser.

I'm quite upset and angry about this incident, it is tantamount to harassment.

Are there rules or anything surrounding this type of thing?

DrumSteve

I bet it was Fianna Fail.

Lovely Bloke

DrumSteve wrote: »

I bet it was Fianna Fail.

you've just lost yourself a bet

28064212

Knocking on a door is not harassment, unless there was some accompanying aggressive behaviour. TBH, closing the door in someone's face is more aggressive than knocking on a door

Sierra Oscar

Strange behavior really, certainly not a way to engage with people. Most people have the cop on to realize that if someone does not want to come to the door then they do not want to come to the door. Most candidates would have told their canvassers to move on if someone does not come to the door, irrespective of whether you know someone is in or not.

It is not unusual to see people in a house that do not come to the door, even when they know there is someone there. It is their business whether they want to engage or not.

If I were you, I would ring the candidate who the canvasser was knocking on behalf of just to give them a heads up that it happened. It might be a first time candidate or the likes who is still getting used to knocking on doors.

Lovely Bloke

28064212 wrote: »

Knocking on a door is not harassment, unless there was some accompanying aggressive behaviour. TBH, closing the door in someone's face is more aggressive than knocking on a door

Thanks you for describing a situation that did not happen, very helpful.

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Strange behavior really, certainly not a way to engage with people. Most people have the cop on to realize that if someone does not want to come to the door then they do not want to come to the door. Most candidates would have told their canvassers to move on if someone does not come to the door, irrespective of whether you know someone is in or not.

It is not unusual to see people in a house that do not come to the door, even when they know there is someone there. It is their business whether they want to engage or not.

If I were you, I would ring the candidate who the canvasser was knocking on behalf of just to give them a heads up that it happened. It might be a first time candidate or the likes who is still getting used to knocking on doors.

It's not. I don't know who the exact candidate was, as the proferred leaflet was not accepted.

28064212

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Thanks you for describing a situation that did not happen, very helpful.

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

the door was promptly shut in the face of the canvasser.

Lovely Bloke

28064212 wrote: »

Context mate, it was contstant knocking over a prolonged period. The person inside the house obviously didn't want to answer.

It wasn't just "knocking on a door" - but thanks for your contribution.

duchalla

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Strange behavior really, certainly not a way to engage with people. Most people have the cop on to realize that if someone does not want to come to the door then they do not want to come to the door. Most candidates would have told their canvassers to move on if someone does not come to the door, irrespective of whether you know someone is in or not.

It is not unusual to see people in a house that do not come to the door, even when they know there is someone there. It is their business whether they want to engage or not.

+1.

28064212

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Context mate, it was contstant knocking over a prolonged period. The person inside the house obviously didn't want to answer.

It wasn't just "knocking on a door" - but thanks for your contribution.

Were they banging on it in a threatening way? Did they refuse to leave after being asked? Prolonged knocking is not harassment. The only possible way you could argue that it was harassment is if the knocker could see the person inside and could see that they weren't going to answer, and continued knocking regardless. Unless that happened, then the knocker has no way of knowing whether, for example, the resident was in the shower, out the back, hoovering, etc. etc.

Lovely Bloke

OK

laoch na mona

fairly bad I was out canvassing last night and we deliberately skipped a few houses with elderly residents who would not be comfortable with answering the door at night.

considering you are out to get votes most canvassers strive to make a good impression

Lovely Bloke

In fairness to the above, there's no way the canvasser would have known my wife is a. pregnant, b. has a broken shoulder.

however, I do think the persistent knocking until there was an answer was wrong.

laoch na mona

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

In fairness to the above, there's no way the canvasser would have known my wife is a. pregnant, b. has a broken shoulder.

however, I do think the persistent knocking until there was an answer was wrong.

the generally done thing is knock once, wait and if there is no answer put a leaflet in the letter box

amen

28064212 wrote: »

Knocking on a door is not harassment, unless there was some accompanying aggressive behaviour. TBH, closing the door in someone's face is more aggressive than knocking on a door

So closing the hall door to your own home when someone outside has been persistently knocking on a door to your home and then when you open it you see someone you don't want to talk is aggressive?

What should they do ? Stand there and listen ?

28064212

amen wrote: »

So closing the hall door to your own home when someone outside has been persistently knocking on a door to your home and then when you open it you see someone you don't want to talk is aggressive?

I didn't say it was aggressive, I said it was more aggressive. It's a relative term, not an absolute one.

amen wrote: »

What should they do ? Stand there and listen ?

Say "No thank you" and close the door. No need to shut it in their face

Lovely Bloke

Well, that's more or less what happened.

knockknock
ignore
knockknockknockknockknockknockknockknockknockknock
struggle struggle
knockknockknockknockknockknockknockknockknockknock
open door
"Hello, I'm from X-Party..."
"Nope, thanks" Close door
*boggle*

spank_inferno

28064212 wrote: »

I didn't say it was aggressive, I said it was more aggressive. It's a relative term, not an absolute one.


Say "No thank you" and close the door. No need to shut it in their face

If someone undesirable is at the door how to you close said door if not "in their face"??

Do you ask them to turn around so they have the door closed on the back of their head??

Boulevardier

I am a party canvasser of many years' experience, I can tell you that there is no way any canvasser I have workd with would behave like that.

Normal practice is to knock or ring once, wait about 30 secs, maybe have one more go and if there is still no answer, move on.

A canvasser who keeps persisting is not only annoying the occupier, he/she is also wasting time that is needed at other doors.

Lovely Bloke

The most disappointing thing is that I have sent three emails to members of the party - a local councillor who I think they canvasser would have been knocking for, a TD also from the area and the party leader.

No response.

robbiezero

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

The most disappointing thing is that I have sent three emails to members of the party - a local councillor who I think they canvasser would have been knocking for, a TD also from the area and the party leader.

No response.

Keep sending them emails. It is only fair after all the knocking. See how they like it

Lovely Bloke

they'll shut their inbox in my face

Lovely Bloke

So, I had a reply from the sitting TD local to my area, apologising for any upset caused.

Less than 24 hours after I sent the email to them, which I appreciate.

Harry Angstrom

I'd have just told them to fcuk off, which is what I'm going to say to anyone who calls to my door. I'm especially looking forward to saying it to the Labour Party candidate, seeing as I've voted for them all my life, but never ever again.

miju

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

seeing as I've voted for them all my life, but never ever again.

Dare I ask why?

Harry Angstrom

miju wrote: »

Dare I ask why?

I actually thought they were a party of principles, but then this happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpr2zaXvb4M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bJFG0uhzmM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE_-Fp7lGSk

There were still a few principled members amongst them, such as Roisin Shortall, but most of them are nothing more than sleazy opportunists.

nuac

I agree with Laoch na Móna

imho prolonged knocking or bell ringing is harassment.

If there is no reaction form house within 30 secs most canvassers put there canvassing card in the letter box and move on

I think canvassing is part of the democratic tradition. Unless too busy I always talk to canvassers

charlie14

28064212 wrote: »

Were they banging on it in a threatening way? Did they refuse to leave after being asked? Prolonged knocking is not harassment. The only possible way you could argue that it was harassment is if the knocker could see the person inside and could see that they weren't going to answer, and continued knocking regardless. Unless that happened, then the knocker has no way of knowing whether, for example, the resident was in the shower, out the back, hoovering, etc. etc.

weeks

May not be harassment, but it certainly borders on bad manners.
Mind you, if it was a canvasser from either of the present crowd in power, from what`s been going on for the past two weeks, bad manners and contempt for the ordinary people of this country seems to be a given.

Hootanany

FG Then?

Lovely Bloke

it was SF

MouseTail

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

it was SF

i guessed as much, they train their candidates very well, same cannot be said for their canvassing teams, or talliesmen for that matter. Elbows out lads

Harry Angstrom

Thing is, most of them won't even knock at the door. They're too embarrassed. Just take a look at this Emer Costello poster, trying to keep on to her co-opted seat in the pointless European Parliament. It doesn't even mention that she's a member of the Labour Party

Son Of A Vidic

28064212 wrote: »

Were they banging on it in a threatening way?

Where I was brought up, you knock on a front door in a calm civilised manner. Unless your house is ablaze, or someone has collapsed in your garden with a gunshot wound to the abdomen. But apart from those extenuating circumstances, 'banging' persistently on a complete stranger's front door can only be interpreted as pig ignorant aggressive behaviour in my books.

28064212

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Where I was brought up, you knock on a front door in a calm civilised manner. Unless your house is ablaze, or someone has collapsed in your garden with a gunshot wound to the abdomen. But apart from those extenuating circumstances, 'banging' persistently on a complete stranger's front door can only be interpreted as pig ignorant aggressive behaviour in my books.

The only person who mentioned "banging" was me, and that was a question. Nothing the OP has said suggests that the canvasser did anything other than knock in a calm civilised manner. The only question at hand seems to be whether "persistent" knocking, on its own, can constitute harassment

Harry Angstrom

28064212 wrote: »

The only person who mentioned "banging" was me, and that was a question. Nothing the OP has said suggests that the canvasser did anything other than knock in a calm civilised manner. The only question at hand seems to be whether "persistent" knocking, on its own, can constitute harassment

Persistent knocking can be a lot more annoying than somebody who bangs on the door once or twice and then moves on.

Going Forward

28064212 wrote: »

Knocking on a door is not harassment, unless there was some accompanying aggressive behaviour. TBH, closing the door in someone's face is more aggressive than knocking on a door

Knocking repeatedly on someone's door, it's not good manners.

There's nothing aggressive about closing your own front door on someone who's had the neck to try and push some unwanted propaganda on the doorstep.

I admonished some religious recruiters one morning at 9am for knocking doors and ringing bells spreading their message.

Do you really want aged or infirm people to think that there's some emergency at the front door that must be answered?

Going Forward

28064212 wrote: »

Knocking on a door is not harassment, unless there was some accompanying aggressive behaviour. TBH, closing the door in someone's face is more aggressive than knocking on a door

Knocking repeatedly on someone's door, it's not good manners.

There's nothing aggressive about closing your own front door on someone who's had the neck to try and push some unwanted propaganda on the doorstep.

I admonished some religious recruiters one morning at 9am for knocking doors and ringing bells spreading their message.

Do you really want aged or infirm people to think that there's some emergency at the front door that must be answered?

28064212

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Persistent knocking can be a lot more annoying than somebody who bangs on the door once or twice and then moves on.

Going Forward wrote: »

Knocking repeatedly on someone's door, it's not good manners.

Never mentioned either manners or it not being annoying. Doesn't make it "tantamount to harassment".

Son Of A Vidic

28064212 wrote: »

The only person who mentioned "banging" was me, and that was a question.

Did I not quote you directly? O.K. I'll make it clearer for you. By asking earlier where they banging on the door in a threatening way. Why did you even ask that? Are you implying that you can actually 'bang' on someone's door in a non-threatening way? Because your question is a contradiction in terms.

28064212 wrote: »

The only question at hand seems to be whether "persistent" knocking, on its own, can constitute harassment

Sorry the only question at hand is the one the OP clearly asked at the end of his first post and that question was.......

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Are there rules or anything surrounding this type of thing?

6 posts in and you have made absolutely no attempt to assist the OP with his original question. Apart from a pointless and nonsensical swipe at his wife for closing the door in an ignorant pigs face.


Anyway OP, from what I know and I may be wrong. I don't think there are any specific rules governing the behaviour of political canvassers on the doorstep.

28064212

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Did I not quote you directly? O.K. I'll make it clearer for you. By asking earlier where they banging on the door in a threatening way. Why did you even ask that? Are you implying that you can actually 'bang' on someone's door in a non-threatening way? Because your question is a contradiction in terms.

What? I asked if they were banging on it, because the OP only said they knocked. If they were banging it might be construed as harassment. You yourself drew a line between "calm and civilised knocking" and "banging". Nothing the OP has said has suggested the canvasser was banging.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Sorry the only question at hand is the one the OP clearly asked at the end of his first post and that question was.......

Eh... the only laws regarding anything remotely in this area are laws regarding harassment, and the only thing I've tried to establish is whether there was anything the canvasser did that could be remotely construed as harassment

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

6 posts in and you have made absolutely no attempt to assist the OP with his original question. Apart from a pointless and nonsensical swipe at his wife for closing the door in an ignorant pigs face.

Which I already explained above. And thanked the OP when they clarified that they didn't just slam it in their face

Lovely Bloke

28064212 wrote: »

Which I already explained above. And thanked the OP when they clarified that they didn't just slam it in their face

In fairness, I never said "slam", I said shut in the person's face.

Was my already annoyed wife supposed to listen carefully, politely decline and wait for the person to turn around. Or promptly shut the door. It was cold, raining and breezy, I wasn't in the house, and my wife is gestating our first child, and has a broken shoulder.

I'm glad she took the action she did, and yes, she felt harassed. Harassed by some ignorant person who just couldn't accept that someone might not want to hear their vitally important message. I don't care for your semantics, any dictionary definition of the word, or the law. My heavily pregnant and broken shouldered wife was harassed into opening the door on a dark, cold and wet night.

If you think that's ok, because you feel like arguing on the internet, then more power to you.

28064212

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

In fairness, I never said "slam", I said shut in the person's face.

Was my already annoyed wife supposed to listen carefully, politely decline and wait for the person to turn around. Or promptly shut the door. It was cold, raining and breezy, I wasn't in the house, and my wife is gestating our first child, and has a broken shoulder.

Again, I thanked you after you clarified. Initially it sounded like she shut the door in his face without saying anything. That would be, IMO anyway, rude. At least saying "No Thanks" first is quite different.

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

I'm glad she took the action she did, and yes, she felt harassed. Harassed by some ignorant person who just couldn't accept that someone might not want to hear their vitally important message. I don't care for your semantics, any dictionary definition of the word, or the law. My heavily pregnant and broken shouldered wife was harassed into opening the door on a dark, cold and wet night.

If it had been someone your wife wanted to see, would your wife have felt harassed? What behaviour did the canvasser exhibit that made it harassment, other than the fact that your wife didn't want to hear it, a fact which they could not have known until after the door was answered?

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

If you think that's ok, because you feel like arguing on the internet, then more power to you.

Why post if you only wanted opinions that agreed with you?

laoch na mona

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

it was SF

i guess bad manners know no party boundaries. I'd be SF and no one I've canvassed with would be like that. Would you mind me asking what LEA you are in?

Sully

Sinn Fein are just desperate for votes. :pac: :P

In all seriousness though, it can happen with any party and any company doing door to door sales. Inexperience usually, someone lacking in common sense.

charlie14

28064212 wrote: »

Never mentioned either manners or it not being annoying. Doesn't make it "tantamount to harassment".

At what stage does persistance annoyance become harassment?
There has to be a correlation there somewhere.
Hope so. Will help my assault case for kicking the ass of any ignorant fool that ever tries that on my front door.

jackofalltrades

28064212 wrote: »

Were they banging on it in a threatening way? Did they refuse to leave after being asked? Prolonged knocking is not harassment. The only possible way you could argue that it was harassment is if the knocker could see the person inside and could see that they weren't going to answer, and continued knocking regardless. Unless that happened, then the knocker has no way of knowing whether, for example, the resident was in the shower, out the back, hoovering, etc. etc.

Prolonged knocking on a door is harassment.
Knock once, maybe twice. If the person wants to answer the door then they will.
Knocking repeatedly until you get an answer is the height of bad manners.
What if it's an elderly/sick person living on their own, what if it's a parent trying to put their kids to bed.

There seems to be a growing sense of entitlement from certain types of individuals that call to houses.

28064212

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Prolonged knocking on a door is harassment.
Knock once, maybe twice. If the person wants to answer the door then they will.

And if the person was in the bathroom, or a back room, or had headphones on, or any of a hundred other scenarios where they may not immediately hear the door? If the canvasser had been someone the resident wanted to talk to, would it still have been harassment?

jackofalltrades

28064212 wrote: »

And if the person was in the bathroom, or a back room, or had headphones on, or any of a hundred other scenarios where they may not immediately hear the door? If the canvasser had been someone the resident wanted to talk to, would it still have been harassment?

In this context you leave a note. If the person at the door is important enough to the person in the house, they can get in touch with them.

Prolonged knocking by someone I don't know is only acceptable in an emergency.

Lovely Bloke

So, in a further update, I had a second apologetic email from the Party and also a hand written letter from the local councillor who's team were canvassing in my area the night in question.

I'm happy enough with the outcome of my complaint, and fair play to them for thier comprehensive response.

nesf

28064212 wrote: »

And if the person was in the bathroom, or a back room, or had headphones on, or any of a hundred other scenarios where they may not immediately hear the door? If the canvasser had been someone the resident wanted to talk to, would it still have been harassment?

Seriously, it's just not acceptable. I've no idea if you've ever done any canvassing but no one does this amongst the parties who actually get TDs because you're more likely to encourage someone to tactically vote against you than vote for you with this kind of behaviour. Regardless of party there will be households set dead against you who will never vote for you in the next election, you really do not want to give these people a reason to try and vote directly against you.

28064212

nesf wrote: »

Seriously, it's just not acceptable. I've no idea if you've ever done any canvassing but no one does this amongst the parties who actually get TDs because you're more likely to encourage someone to tactically vote against you than vote for you with this kind of behaviour. Regardless of party there will be households set dead against you who will never vote for you in the next election, you really do not want to give these people a reason to try and vote directly against you.

At no stage did I say I thought it was a good idea, only that I don't believe it constitutes harassment