Why do so many people want to devoid life of a spiritual meaning

completedit · 29-05-2020 1:28am #1

The religion of science in the hands of those not smart enough to truly understand it is every bit as scary as anything that has come before it.

MrStuffins · 29-05-2020 1:30am

Because it's mostly wishy-washy b*llocks.

completedit · 29-05-2020 1:33am

We should leave space as part of the human experience for such thoughts. But should be separated from the state but has to be done in a way that connects kids to the spiritual past and our inherent wonder that science doesn't explain and shouldn't attempt to invade.

Collie D · 29-05-2020 1:33am

I don’t want to devoid life of it.

Other people can do what they want once they’re not hurting anyone or pushing it in my face.

Apart from that I’m just not bothered. Not to be confused with being anti.

MrStuffins · 29-05-2020 1:40am

completedit wrote: »

We should leave space as part of the human experience for such thoughts. But should be separated from the state but has to be done in a way that connects kids to the spiritual past and our inherent wonder that science doesn't explain and shouldn't attempt to invade.

But why shouldn't science "invade" something it can't explain yet?

Everything that science can explain was at one point NOT explained before "invasion". Sounds like you want to believe in spiritual stuff and don't want science ruining your fun with, you know, the truth?

"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things!"

auspicious · 29-05-2020 2:34am

Because if you're not with them you're against them.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg

jobeenfitz · 29-05-2020 3:09am

completedit wrote: »

The religion of science in the hands of those not smart enough to truly understand it is every bit as scary as anything that has come before it.

Why do you call it "the religion of science"?

snoopboggybog · 29-05-2020 4:23am

If it gives people a sense of peace and hapiness and social interaction with mass then nothing against it

Some people though take it far to serious in the sense that its terribly bad for their mental health.

Ipso · 29-05-2020 4:36am

jobeenfitz wrote: »

Why do you call it "the religion of science"?

It’s an attempt to discredit science bu trying to imply it’s not evidence based.

Arghus · 29-05-2020 5:23am

I remember my first joint OP.

johnnyskeleton · 29-05-2020 5:38am

completedit wrote: »

The religion of science in the hands of those not smart enough to truly understand it is every bit as scary as anything that has come before it.

Science isnt a religion or set of beliefs its a method of acquiring reliable knowledge

29-05-2020 5:43am

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Science isnt a religion or set of beliefs its a method of acquiring reliable knowledge

Thats what they want you to believe.

I mean, what has science ever done for us, eh?

mistress_gi · 29-05-2020 6:05am

Because all of the spiritual beliefs that i know of come with a condition, nothing is ever free in the spiritual world.
I am also a big believer that spirituality robs the human condition of the simple intricacies of living without that support blanket.
I think it makes us less, it also takes responsibility away from the believers, they can use spiritual belief to justify anything and avoid responsibility.

One eyed Jack · 29-05-2020 6:41am

Ipso wrote: »

It’s an attempt to discredit science bu trying to imply it’s not evidence based.

I don’t think it’s an attempt to discredit scientific inquiry at all, but rather to point out the reality of the existence of politics in science. A good example is the idea of male and female brains, or claims that allude to humans having the ability to change their sex, that sort of thing. In the wrong hands that sort of knowledge is dangerous, as the evidence for it is based upon consensus and ideology as opposed to observation.

EDIT: I don’t agree with the premise of the opening posters thread title either. From observations done we know the opposite - that there really aren’t that many people in the world who want to devoid life of a spiritual meaning, only a mere handful by comparison to those people who claim that life has some spiritual meaning.

Fr_Dougal · 29-05-2020 7:03am

completedit wrote: »

The religion of science in the hands of those not smart enough to truly understand it is every bit as scary as anything that has come before it.

That would be an ecumenical matter.

Conor Bourke · 29-05-2020 7:07am

mistress_gi wrote: »

Because all of the spiritual beliefs that i know of come with a condition, nothing is ever free in the spiritual world.
I am also a big believer that spirituality robs the human condition of the simple intricacies of living without that support blanket.
I think it makes us less, it also takes responsibility away from the believers, they can use spiritual belief to justify anything and avoid responsibility.

Spirituality is not always synonymous with religious faith, though faith can comprise a part of one’s spirituality.

29-05-2020 8:14am

Ipso wrote: »

It’s an attempt to discredit science bu trying to imply it’s not evidence based.

It's not always an attempt to discredit science, but rather to highlight the lack of automatic acceptance that many people have regarding science.

Science is based on a set of experiments which can be repeated and verified, but the explanations/theories are sometimes based on assumptions, or the perception of the those involved. Which can be discredited later by someone else, or some new piece of technology. The religion can be the reference to the hostility many supporters of science have for those who don't fully/immediately accept science as an absolute.... and there are many people out there like that.

[wiki] "Scientific theories are testable and make falsifiable predictions.[1] Thus, it is a mark of good science if a discipline has a growing list of superseded theories, and conversely, a lack of superseded theories can indicate problems in following the use of the scientific method."

Anyway, for many people, science has little actual importance. Just like spirituality, it's something that can be ignored as you focus on your life.

Feisar · 29-05-2020 8:30am

It's not that I want a life devoid of any spiritual meaning, it's more that life is devoid of spiritual meaning, be that God, Gaia or whatever brand of mumbo jumbo yer having.

I've started reading about the timeline of religion on the back of this thread, interesting that going way back there seems to be something in us that wants there to be more to life:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion#Prehistory

Church on Tuesday · 29-05-2020 11:31am

completedit wrote: »

We should leave space as part of the human experience for such thoughts. But should be separated from the state but has to be done in a way that connects kids to the spiritual past and our inherent wonder that science doesn't explain and shouldn't attempt to invade.

What?

LuasSimon · 29-05-2020 12:05pm

For what it’s worth I go to mass every Saturday night in local church ( not during covid at present ) and perhaps it’s a habit but we all go wife and children and I find it beneficial for me . Sit down for 40 minutes, say a few payers , meet some neighbours and go away about your business for another week with something engrained in the back of your head to try and be nice to those you interact with and be kind , hardly a bad thing . I definitely feel part of a community meeting others there every week and whilst we’re all not perfect we try and do our best together .

Maybe I’ve been fortunate but any priest I came across were all good men building local halls , helping the sick etc etc and a couple of them were very good in the UK to uncles of mine that fell on very hard times .

the beer revolu · 29-05-2020 12:25pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

For what it’s worth I go to mass every Saturday night in local church ( not during covid at present ) and perhaps it’s a habit but we all go wife and children and I find it beneficial for me . Sit down for 40 minutes, say a few payers , meet some neighbours and go away about your business for another week with something engrained in the back of your head to try and be nice to those you interact with and be kind , hardly a bad thing . I definitely feel part of a community meeting others there every week and whilst we’re all not perfect we try and do our best together .

Maybe I’ve been fortunate but any priest I came across were all good men building local halls , helping the sick etc etc and a couple of them were very good in the UK to uncles of mine that fell on very hard times .

That's all lovely for you and your family.
What's your point, though? That it should be forced on all of us? I'm sure that's not the point you are making but I have no idea what your point is.

29-05-2020 12:35pm

jobeenfitz wrote: »

Why do you call it "the religion of science"?

Because he is one of the ones who as he himself said do not " truly understand it " I would warrant.

I am not as scared of the word spiritual as many people can be though. I think one can be very "spiritual" without subscribing to evidence devoid nonsense. But all too often religion has been the only game in town talking about such things. So there is a certain level of conflation that goes on.

Signore Fancy Pants · 29-05-2020 12:39pm

Religion has done more harm than good over the centuries.

Also, anyone who actually believes there's a man in the sky judging us...well...needs help from a man/woman on Earth.

Woke Hogan · 29-05-2020 12:48pm

I’m totally areligious but that being said I acknowledge that pretty much every known society and culture throughout history has had some sort of tradition of believing in a higher power. Therefore I would define it to be as much a part of the human condition as enjoying music or any kind of storytelling.

That’s why I always laugh at the sneering fat internet atheists you see on websites such as this. Declaring themselves to be “people of science” despite the fact that their own scientific nous extends only as far as what a pop scientist like Brian Cox told them in some podcast for arseholes.

The kind of people who pride themselves on trusting “facts” and “logic” but who also ignore their doctors warnings about controlling their blood sugar by eating two kilos of sugar every weekend.

dots03 · 29-05-2020 12:59pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

The kind of people who pride themselves on trusting “facts” and “logic” but who also ignore their doctors warnings about controlling their blood sugar by eating two kilos of sugar every weekend.

Science doesn't tell you not to eat two kilos of Sugar every weekend.

Science does tell you that if you do eat two kilos of sugar every weekend, it will be very, very bad for you.

The fact and logic behind this stands up regardless of you following this advice or not

biko · 29-05-2020 1:12pm

Maybe the most loaded OP in weeks, well done!

MrStuffins · 29-05-2020 1:31pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

That’s why I always laugh at the sneering fat internet atheists you see on websites such as this.

Good to see that you've managed to avoid sneering at other people on websites such as this. Congratulations!

JohnnyFlash · 29-05-2020 1:53pm

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Religion has done more harm than good over the centuries.

Also, anyone who actually believes there's a man in the sky judging us...well...needs help from a man/woman on Earth.

AlphabetCards · 29-05-2020 1:55pm

completedit wrote: »

The religion of science in the hands of those not smart enough to truly understand it is every bit as scary as anything that has come before it.

Can't agree more.

Currently we are praising the destruction of the solar, the beautiful salt flats, in order to bring more lithium to the surface. Every bit as stupid as oil.

29-05-2020 2:21pm

completedit wrote: »

The religion of science in the hands of those not smart enough to truly understand it is every bit as scary as anything that has come before it.

I'm not particularly anti-religion or anti-theist, but that is a nonsense statement. There is no religion of science.

Religion requires faith. Science requires evidence.

Dravokivich · 29-05-2020 2:33pm

Candie wrote: »

I'm not particularly anti-religion or anti-theist, but that is a nonsense statement. There is no religion of science.

Religion requires faith. Science requires evidence.

And the absence of evidence is usually filed under god. It's a bit odd to think a lack of religion means putting all your chips in science.

Agricola · 29-05-2020 2:38pm

Mass is at 10am on Sunday in my parish. Just an ungodly hour to be out on a Sunday when you could be having a lie in. More than Dawkins or church scandals, that was the clinger that put me off religion I have to say.

AlphabetCards · 29-05-2020 2:44pm

Candie wrote: »

I'm not particularly anti-religion or anti-theist, but that is a nonsense statement. There is no religion of science.

Religion requires faith. Science requires evidence.

Yes, science requires evidence - but a lot of what gets pumped out currently that could be filed as 'sustainable', 'green' or 'environmentally friendly' can be construed as science, and therefore evidence-based and peer reviewed - in reality, a lot of it is green-washed misinformation that exists to push a product or service ahead of the pack in terms of visibility.

We trust scientists every day, but many have let us down in the past - they did so while quoting 'science' at us, and upending their proverbial tables once the heretic questioned the 'science', as if the word is sacred.

I say this as a scientist myself, I know too many who make huge claims to further their personal ambitions.

Woke Hogan · 29-05-2020 2:47pm

Agricola wrote: »

Mass is at 10am on Sunday in my parish. Just an ungodly hour to be out on a Sunday when you could be having a lie in. More than Dawkins or church scandals, that was the clinger that put me off religion I have to say.

A lie in? If I was ever still in bed at 10am I’d have to be in a coma!

Agricola · 29-05-2020 3:04pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

A lie in? If I was ever still in bed at 10am I’d have to be in a coma!

You sir are the real hero of this piece.

Harry Palmr · 29-05-2020 3:07pm

The OP really means to address the issue of the belief IN science Shirley?

If he/she has been reading some of the comments in the Covid 19 forum then they could well have point!

A three month control group of bad understanding of science and statistics

Skyfloater · 29-05-2020 3:34pm

Agricola wrote: »

You sir are the real hero of this piece.

Woke by name, woke by nature.

LuasSimon · 29-05-2020 3:37pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

That's all lovely for you and your family.
What's your point, though? That it should be forced on all of us? I'm sure that's not the point you are making but I have no idea what your point is.

I’m not forcing it on anyone , the same way people giving out and giving out and giving out about religion shouldn’t force me to stop going . Let people attend whatever they want to attend .

I’ve no interest in soccer but I don’t around giving out about those that do go , best of luck to them

29-05-2020 3:42pm

I'm not in the least bit religious, but I am interested (somewhat) in the spiritual. They're not automatically the same thing.

endacl · 29-05-2020 3:44pm

completedit wrote: »

The religion of science in the hands of those not smart enough to truly understand it is every bit as scary as anything that has come before it.

I’m smart enough to know devoid isn’t a verb.

Iscreamkone · 29-05-2020 3:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not in the least bit religious, but I am interested (somewhat) in the spiritual. They're not automatically the same thing.

What does being "interested in the spiritual" actually mean?
I understand that some people can get benefit from ritual and being part of a group/community of like minded people, but where/what is the spiritual?

The word spiritual to me can be replaced with the word magic. When someone says they are interested in this I think; what magic is he talking about, as nobody has actually seen any ...ever.

4068ac1elhodqr · 29-05-2020 4:03pm

In its most simple terms who would you most rather get stuck on a desert island with?:

2 dozen folks of various Christian failths, maybe a few Buddists, and couple Hindus too among them, all with unquantified positve outlooks, that somehow things will work out fine.
2 dozen athiests, perhaps with the risk of increased self-focus, anger at their clearly hopeless situation, or even hedonistic attitudes, and non-guided views of morality or fairness.

Thelonious Monk · 29-05-2020 4:04pm

The world is set up in a way to tell us that only consumption and material objects matter, society has us addicted to these things, at the cost of the world itself, which we are eating up.
Contention comes from inside, not from buying things. I've been doing a lot of evaluation lately on my own self, and where I am, mindfulness and some of the old Buddhist philosophies really ring true to me now and I feel a lot better for it. Disconnect from your ego and the constant thoughts and nonsense going through your head as much as you can, the real you is beyond that.

chrissb8 · 29-05-2020 4:07pm

Because I don't have insecurities that necessitate believing some "Other" energy/being. You hear it all the time....

"I'M fEeLiNg a BiT OoF toDaY....OH YAH mErCURY iS in GaToRaDe"

"i need to....ReAlIgN My cHaKraz"

etc.

Spiritualism is an excuse to put your behaviour, your fate and therefore your destiny in something else's hands. I also get a sense of arrogance off spiritualism/religion like someone believes their special enough to have a plan in place for them or there are things that happened in their life which "cannot be explained''....?. All smacks a bit of ego and the terminology..."enlightenment" as well, or an "awakening".

The person who is born into this world and accepts what they can see, hear, smell, touch, taste is reality is the one who is more engaged with it and therefore more enlightened. Because unlike religion or spiritualism, people accept they know nothing beyond what they can actually physically observe.

Iscreamkone · 29-05-2020 4:09pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The world is set up in a way to tell us that only consumption and material objects matter, society has us addicted to these things, at the cost of the world itself, which we are eating up.
Contention comes from inside, not from buying things. I've been doing a lot of evaluation lately on my own self, and where I am, mindfulness and some of the old Buddhist philosophies really ring true to me now and I feel a lot better for it. Disconnect from your ego and the constant thoughts and nonsense going through your head as much as you can, the real you is beyond that.

That's great, Ted!

Thelonious Monk · 29-05-2020 4:10pm

Iscreamkone wrote: »

That's great, Ted!

Wha? What is ted?

29-05-2020 4:11pm

Kase Jolly Mafioso wrote: »

In its most simple terms who would you most rather get stuck on a desert island with?:

2 dozen folks of various Christian failths, maybe a few Buddists, and couple Hindus too among them, all with unquantified positve outlooks, that somehow things will work out fine.
2 dozen athiests, perhaps with the risk of increased self-focus, anger at their clearly hopeless situation, or even hedonistic attitudes, and non-guided views of morality or fairness.

I find the argument that one needs a guided moral compass to be a very strange one. Is the only thing that stops a religious person from murdering or raping fear of retribution via a descent into hell? Isn't it insulting to imply so? I believe virtually all people have a moral compass that is guided by nothing but empathy or conscience. Small children have an observable sense of fair play.

And there are very pessimistic religious people, as there are optimistic atheists.

My preference would be to spend my time on a desert island with nebulous agnostics anyway, there's nothing more boring than a person who believes only they are absolutely right, which rules out the strident atheists and the strident religious in equal measure.

Tea drinker · 29-05-2020 4:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not in the least bit religious, but I am interested (somewhat) in the spiritual. They're not automatically the same thing.

I think people are seeking meaning in life... it can have a spiritual aspect.
Meaning can be a mission .... it could be a material mission. It could be being part of an activist group. All these things feed the same part of the brain that religion does. I make little difference between say, spiritual religion and fervent support on climate issues.

Dr. Bre · 29-05-2020 4:13pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Wha? What is ted?

Father ted I’m guessing !

Thelonious Monk · 29-05-2020 4:14pm

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Father ted I’m guessing !

What has that got to do with anything?

Dr. Bre · 29-05-2020 4:15pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What has that got to do with anything?

True. But I don’t know any other Ted!

Why do so many people want to devoid life of a spiritual meaning

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