Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 3:26pm

Philip Clean Ruler wrote: »

It doesn't matter how much you are drinking, we are already considerably overpaying for alcohol in this country as things are never mind if this comes in.

Minimum price of 24 cabs will be 48 euro, feck off when I can get the same 24 for 24 euro now (or even 20 euro in the run up to Christmas). That's 24 extra euro out of my pocket for absolutely nothing, just because some idiot thought this was a good idea even though it will make no difference except leave me with 24 euro less to save or spend on other things.

It won't take a person drinking much before its worth their while taking a spin up to the north and filling the boot with cans if we are going to have a minimum price of 48 euro for even the cheapest 24 cans*.

*I don't buy the cheapest I buy the ones I like, they just happen to be one of the cheaper ones.

Also that extra euro on a can isnt even all going to the government, only the tax on that euro is.

Added onto that theres zero guarantee due to how our pork barrel tax pot works that any extra raised will even go anywhere near tackling alcohol problems.

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 3:29pm

Philip Clean Ruler wrote: »

It doesn't matter how much you are drinking, we are already considerably overpaying for alcohol in this country as things are never mind if this comes in.

Minimum price of 24 cabs will be 48 euro, feck off when I can get the same 24 for 24 euro now (or even 20 euro in the run up to Christmas). That's 24 extra euro out of my pocket for absolutely nothing, just because some idiot thought this was a good idea even though it will make no difference except leave me with 24 euro less to save or spend on other things.
s

You're buying 24cans for €20 and you think you're overpaying?
Hardly.
No wonder our consumption levels have quadrupled since the 60's

€2 a can is pleanty cheap enough.

bear1 · 30-11-2016 3:29pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, you're also in denial of international recommendations on alcohol intake? Yes, it's a bit hard to ignore the evidence and spout all sorts of unsubstantiated nonsense. You're an inspiration, though.

Unsubstantiated? Haha speaks the person who can't provide evidence to back up the hundreds dead each year thanks to this and the massive amount of work days lost.

bear1 · 30-11-2016 3:30pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

You're buying 24cans for €20 and you think you're overpaying?
Hardly.
No wonder our consumption levels have quadrupled since the 60's

€2 a can is pleanty cheap enough.

2e a can is cheap?

Help!!!! · 30-11-2016 3:31pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

You're buying 24cans for €20 and you think you're overpaying?
Hardly.
No wonder our consumption levels have quadrupled since the 60's

€2 a can is pleanty cheap enough.

Nothing stopping you from paying it, just don't force the rest of us to pay it

pilly · 30-11-2016 3:33pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

Nothing stopping you from paying it, just don't force the rest of us to pay it

Ah now come on, no-one is forced to buy alcohol, it's not like it's milk or bread we're talking about here.

As a smoker I'm sick of constant price rises in every budget but I'd never claim that I'm forced to buy them because I'm not, it's a choice.

Help!!!! · 30-11-2016 3:34pm

pilly wrote: »

Ah now come on, no-one is forced to buy alcohol, it's not like it's milk or bread we're talking about here.

As a smoker I'm sick of constant price rises in every budget but I'd never claim that I'm forced to buy them because I'm not, it's a choice.

No but why force someone to pay €2 for a can when its 98c right now

BrokenArrows · 30-11-2016 3:38pm

Its a bit mad that 1 Liter of Smirnoff Vodka is going to cost €37 when its currently selling for €28 and its selling for £15 in the UK.

Prices checked from tesco.ie vs tesco.co.uk

Ireland already has much more expensive alcohol when compared to the UK/Europe.

They keep saying that this will only effect the lower priced products such as the €1.20 can of **** beer which will be increased to about €2

But i dont consider a bottle of vodka for €28 to be anything on the lower scale of things.

30-11-2016 3:38pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

You're buying 24cans for €20 and you think you're overpaying?
Hardly.
No wonder our consumption levels have quadrupled since the 60's

€2 a can is pleanty cheap enough.

24 euro for 20 euro would be rare nowadays normally the best you will get is 24 for 24. This is far more expensive than many other European countries.

2 euro a can is not cheap enough, its far too expensive imo for standard mass produced larger (craft beer or microbrewry stuff will be more expensive of course).

When I drink in the house or someone else's house the aim is for it to be inexpensive compared to a normal night out and I'm sorry but 2euro a can is too much when you drink a good few cans of a night. I can easily afford 2 euro by the way but why should I have to pay it, its total nonsense. I should be able to drink what I want without being extorted by an artificially high price, if it were in some other situation it would be called a cartell and be illegal.

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 3:38pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

You're buying 24cans for €20 and you think you're overpaying?
Hardly.
No wonder our consumption levels have quadrupled since the 60's

€2 a can is pleanty cheap enough.

LOL comparing consumption levels to the 60's your really desperate now. Should we go back to using abacuses and women being property of their husbands too?

Also they didnt quadruple, they just about tripled, in 1961 they were 4.9 and at the peak in 2001 they were recorded at 14.5. To triple they would need to have hit 14.7

Since 2001 they have dropped to 10.6 in 2013 which is the last verified number.

STB. · 30-11-2016 3:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

In our post-truth world, many people have now made this claim here without citing any evidence. As I pointed out here, however, the international evidence says exactly the opposite: MUP works.

So what. Nobody cares what your problem with alcohol is.

If I want an occasional drink from an off licence, nobody is going tell me that the price being so high is for my own health or to stop me and other people from abusing it, because we cannot be trusted.

This super catholic, do gooder, nanny state cr@p is what has the country where it is. It would serve us better to improve our health system. The health system is not full of people who are there because they drink 10 cans of Dutch Gold in a week.

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

You're buying 24cans for €20 and you think you're overpaying?
Hardly.
No wonder our consumption levels have quadrupled since the 60's

€2 a can is pleanty cheap enough.

Says who ? You ?

Comparatively and like everything else we pay way above the EU average for everything and no mouth with a pioneer pin will try and tell me otherwise

Help!!!! · 30-11-2016 3:44pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

You're buying 24cans for €20 and you think you're overpaying?
Hardly.
No wonder our consumption levels have quadrupled since the 60's

€2 a can is pleanty cheap enough.

Would that not have something to do with the fact that more women drink now than in the 60s & also our population has grown

Caliden · 30-11-2016 3:45pm

Here we go again with people not being able take responsibility for their own actions.

It's happening in the UK with some parents asking the government to step in and do their job as parents to 'protect' their kids from the internet.

If you've got an alcohol problem, just admit it instead of blaming cheap drink.

pilly · 30-11-2016 3:49pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

No but why force someone to pay €2 for a can when its 98c right now

I don't agree or disagree either way, simply making the point no-one is "forced" to buy alcohol.

BrokenArrows · 30-11-2016 3:49pm

Is the minimum price a tax or just a minimum price?
So does the supplier and seller both increase their profit margins here?

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 3:51pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Is the minimum price a tax or just a minimum price?
So does the supplier and seller both increase their profit margins here?

Its a minimum price so everyone wins except consumers. Government gets whatever margin of tax is currently on alcohol and the supplier/seller takes the rest.

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 3:52pm

Philip Clean Ruler wrote: »

24 euro for 20 euro would be rare nowadays normally the best you will get is 24 for 24. This is far more expensive than many other European countries.
.

Newsflash. We're not like other European countries.

We've a problem with excessive and binge drinking, particularly among our young population.

€2 a can is actually too cheap IMO.

pilly · 30-11-2016 3:52pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Is the minimum price a tax or just a minimum price?
So does the supplier and seller both increase their profit margins here?

It's a minimum price that the seller is allowed charge which includes the taxes we already pay. The issue at the moment is below cost selling. Under this, that will not be allowed.

Help!!!! · 30-11-2016 3:53pm

pilly wrote: »

I don't agree or disagree either way, simply making the point no-one is "forced" to buy alcohol.

Never said they were " forced " to buy it but being " forced " to over pay for it

pilly · 30-11-2016 3:54pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

Never said they were " forced " to buy it but being " forced " to over pay for it

There's no difference between those 2 things. Ah I give up. :P

BrokenArrows · 30-11-2016 3:55pm

pilly wrote: »

It's a minimum price that the seller is allowed charge which includes the taxes we already pay. The issue at the moment is below cost selling. Under this, that will not be allowed.

Show me the shops that are selling below cost?
Apart from the occasional stock clearance this is probably few and far between.

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 3:56pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Newsflash. We're not like other European countries.

We've a problem with excessive and binge drinking, particularly among our young population.

€2 a can is actually too cheap IMO.

Austria, Belgium, France, Czech Republic, Germany, Estonia, Slovenia all have consumption levels above ours.

Continuing to hold alcohol up as a magic elxir to be kept away from younger people is not gonna fix the problem with young people binge drinking.

We need to normalise it so its not this special right of passage thing you suddenly get access to so immediately binge on it

bear1 · 30-11-2016 3:56pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Newsflash. We're not like other European countries.

We've a problem with excessive and binge drinking, particularly among our young population.

€2 a can is actually too cheap IMO.

So how much should a can be?

STB. · 30-11-2016 3:56pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Newsflash. We're not like other European countries.

We've a problem with excessive and binge drinking, particularly among our young population.

€2 a can is actually too cheap IMO.

Newsflash. Drinking alcohol is a personal choice.

What I drink and when I drink is none of your or some overpaid Dail committee's business.

Ireland ALREADY pays 75% above the EU average.

pilly · 30-11-2016 3:56pm

Cigarettes have had a "minimum", ie. set price forever which rises every year by at least 50 cents. Where's the outcry about this? There isn't one because as smokers we know bloody well we've a choice not to buy cigarettes if it bothers us that much. I don't see any difference.

Help!!!! · 30-11-2016 3:59pm

pilly wrote: »

There's no difference between those 2 things. Ah I give up. :P

Yes there is but you gave up....no backsies

Help!!!! · 30-11-2016 4:01pm

pilly wrote: »

Cigarettes have had a "minimum", ie. set price forever which rises every year by at least 50 cents. Where's the outcry about this? There isn't one because as smokers we know bloody well we've a choice not to buy cigarettes if it bothers us that much. I don't see any difference.

Alcohol is more sociable. You don't bring a box of fags with you for the hosts when you go round for dinner

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 4:01pm

pilly wrote: »

Cigarettes have had a "minimum", ie. set price forever which rises every year by at least 50 cents. Where's the outcry about this? There isn't one because as smokers we know bloody well we've a choice not to buy cigarettes if it bothers us that much. I don't see any difference.

Thats a tax, this isn't, its a focused minimum price increase targeted at a specific section of the trade to try to boost sales for vintners.

Its got nothing to do with health and will have zero benefits for the people its claiming to be aimed at. If you had a drinking problem before it, your still gonna have one after this and spend whatever it takes to feed it.

Do the high price of drugs suddenly stop drug addicts being drug addicts?

Maximus Alexander · 30-11-2016 4:02pm

london bus 200 wrote: »

LETS AGREE AND SAY, LOK A IT YHE OTHER WAY ANDU AND I HAVE HAVE GOT THIS GOT COMPLETELY, WRONG, ITS THE WAY TEH ENTIRE WORLD FUNTIONS, WE CANT JUST HAVE A BUNCH OF CITIXENS AND WE KNOW NOHTING ABOUT THEM,

I AND THEN IF CAN GO ROUND TO THA TOP, I THINK PUT IT UPSIDE DOW INSTED AND WE AND CAN AGREE WE WILL HAV MORE CITIZXEN INFORMATION,

Old Bill · 30-11-2016 4:05pm

This is just more Political Correctness.

The government has no right to tell me how much I can drink.

elefant · 30-11-2016 4:05pm

pilly wrote: »

Cigarettes have had a "minimum", ie. set price forever which rises every year by at least 50 cents. Where's the outcry about this? There isn't one because as smokers we know bloody well we've a choice not to buy cigarettes if it bothers us that much. I don't see any difference.

Is smoking going down as a result of the cost of cigarettes in Ireland?

pilly · 30-11-2016 4:06pm

elefant wrote: »

Is smoking going down as a result of the cost of cigarettes in Ireland?

Yep

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 4:08pm

pilly wrote: »

Yep

Is vaping?

pilly · 30-11-2016 4:08pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

Alcohol is more sociable. You don't bring a box of fags with you for the hosts when you go round for dinner

Ah so now it's about the price of bringing a bottle of wine around to someone's house. Come on now, would you arrive with the cheapest bottle of wine in the shop before?

pilly · 30-11-2016 4:08pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Is vaping?

No, it's up obviously.

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 4:10pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Its got nothing to do with health and will have zero benefits for the people its claiming to be aimed at. If you had a drinking problem before it, your still gonna have one after this and spend whatever it takes to feed it.

Do the high price of drugs suddenly stop drug addicts being drug addicts?

Pricing is a massive factor in youth consumption as they tend to have less disposable income.

People whinging about having to pay €2 for a can?
First world problems.

elefant · 30-11-2016 4:11pm

pilly wrote: »

Yep

Specifically as a result of the cost of cigarettes?

Why doesn't Ireland have the lowest smokers per capita in the EU if it is cost that is causing a fall?

Help!!!! · 30-11-2016 4:12pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Pricing is a massive factor in youth consumption as they tend to have less disposable income.

People whinging about having to pay €2 for a can?
First world problems.

No it isn't, they will just go out & mug some poor granny & take her pension or break into an extra few houses

STB. · 30-11-2016 4:14pm

pilly wrote: »

Cigarettes have had a "minimum", ie. set price forever which rises every year by at least 50 cents. Where's the outcry about this? There isn't one because as smokers we know bloody well we've a choice not to buy cigarettes if it bothers us that much. I don't see any difference.

People who have died from passive social drinking is a massive problem isn't it.

Pick a better analogy and one that actually holds water.

Cantona's Collars · 30-11-2016 4:14pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Newsflash. We're not like other European countries.

We've a problem with excessive and binge drinking, particularly among our young population.

€2 a can is actually too cheap IMO.

We've always had a culture of binge drinking,when I was younger it was live like a pioneer monk for the week and go on the tear for the weekend.I don't do that any more as nights out are a rare treat.Nothing changes except this nanny state mentality because a few can't control their urge to get locked every day.

Only a blind fool can't see that minimum pricing is just a revenue raising exercise as politicians know we'll moan a bit and end up paying higher prices they set and it's win win for them as they can claim a victory against rampant alcoholism and get even more revenue in taxes and duty as a nice little bonus.

Leroy42 · 30-11-2016 4:15pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Pricing is a massive factor in youth consumption as they tend to have less disposable income.

People whinging about having to pay €2 for a can?
First world problems.

Then the answer is to either stop young people buying it or increase the rpice for young people.

We already have laws (18yo) regarding the selling of alcohol so that can't be the issue.

30-11-2016 4:15pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Help!!!! wrote: »

No but why force someone to pay €2 for a can when its 98c right now

Because it costs Irish society a lot more than 98c when the societal costs of alcohol abuse are taken into account.

Anyway, somebody buying a drink or two a week would not be bothered by even a 50% price increase. It's the people who, for want of a better phrase, spend much more on alcohol who are getting upset.

You could always do home brewing as well, lads. It was all the rage, along with the Soda Stream, in the hard-pressed 1980s.

pilly · 30-11-2016 4:17pm

elefant wrote: »

Specifically as a result of the cost of cigarettes?

Why doesn't Ireland have the lowest smokers per capita in the EU if it is cost that is causing a fall?

Definitely as a result of the cost. That's why vaping is taking off big time.

I don't know how our smokers per capita compare with EU but I know it's a lot lower than it was even 5 years ago and I know it's lower than Spain where cigarettes were dirt cheap but are slowly rising also.

Fact is the price of smoking is going up in all European countries. If you take the exchange rate into account it's more expensive in the UK so there isn't the big price differences there used to be.

Help!!!! · 30-11-2016 4:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Because it costs Irish society a lot more than 98c when the societal costs of alcohol abuse are taken into account.

Anyway, somebody buying a drink or two a week would not be bothered by even a 50% price increase. It's the people who, for want of a better phrase, spend much more on alcohol who are getting upset.

You could always do home brewing as well, lads. It was all the rage, along with the Soda Stream, in the hard-pressed 1980s.

So make the people causing the problems pay from their pay/dole & leave law abiding drinkers alone

Leroy42 · 30-11-2016 4:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Because it costs Irish society a lot more than 98c when the societal costs of alcohol abuse are taken into account.

Anyway, somebody buying a drink or two a week would not be bothered by even a 50% price increase. It's the people who, for want of a better phrase, spend much more on alcohol who are getting upset.

You could always do home brewing as well, lads. It was all the rage, along with the Soda Stream, in the hard-pressed 1980s.

But this is exactly the point. For those that drink reasonably, they will simply reduce their consumption or pay the higher price. Since they are not a problem area either one makes no difference.

For those who have money and a drinking problem, it will just mean that they have less money after buying the drink. So that savings fund, the money spent on the kids going out will be hit, not the drink.

For those that don't have the money this will result in looking for higher grade drink at the price, or possible alternatives like drugs. Their addiction is not being tacked at all. What little money they did keep for other things like clothes, family etc, will be wiped out.

So, this solves none of the problems people have cited

30-11-2016 4:21pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

STB. wrote: »

People who have died from passive social drinking is a massive problem isn't it.

Pick a better analogy and one that actually holds water.

Perhaps ask the children and spouses of alcoholics if somebody's alcohol abuse impacts on the health of people close to them?

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 4:22pm

pilly wrote: »

No, it's up obviously.

So smoking as a whole probably hasn't decreased just the sale of cigarettes

STB. · 30-11-2016 4:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps ask the children and spouses of alcoholics if somebody's alcohol abuse impacts on the health of people close to them?

Perhaps read the very quote you just quoted from me and you will understand, before you go off on your think of the children nonsense.

S O C I A L

and the context.

Jeez its like the amateur debating society in here.

elefant · 30-11-2016 4:23pm

pilly wrote: »

Definitely as a result of the cost. That's why vaping is taking off big time.

I don't know how our smokers per capita compare with EU but I know it's a lot lower than it was even 5 years ago and I know it's lower than Spain where cigarettes were dirt cheap but are slowly rising also.

Fact is the price of smoking is going up in all European countries. If you take the exchange rate into account it's more expensive in the UK so there isn't the big price differences there used to be.

I don't believe for a second that the soaring price of cigarettes in Ireland is to thank for our percentage of smokers dropping.

The plummet in smoker numbers since 2004 isn't to do with the smoking ban you don't think? There was a change in culture, smoking was denormalised. Something needs to be done at a cultural level to reduce the level of alcohol abuse prevalent in Ireland.

Trying to force grown adults into changing their behaviour by making something too expensive for them is nonsense policy.

Help!!!! · 30-11-2016 4:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps ask the children and spouses of alcoholics if somebody's alcohol abuse impacts on the health of people close to them?

Well ask the children and spouses when they have less money for food because those people aint gonna stop because of price increases

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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