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Opinion on billionaires.

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12357…11

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    #122
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,230 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Let them fail. What will happen if they do? Someone else will take their place if there's a demand for them. The way it is at the moment, they know they're "too big to fail" so where's the incentive to act properly?


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    #123
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Cienciano wrote: »
    Let them fail. What will happen if they do? Someone else will take their place if there's a demand for them. The way it is at the moment, they know they're "too big to fail" so where's the incentive to act properly?

    but the real world economy isnt that simple, and simply cannot be simplified, it is possible, by not bailing out these systemically important businesses, could lead to catastrophic outcomes, for example, theres a very high chance if the banks were not bailed out, we could potentially still be experiencing a global depression, thankfully that was prevented, or maybe delayed, who knows. but we decided not to attach strict conditions with these bailouts, this imho, was a lethal move, thankfully, some bailouts occurring now, have some attachments with them, that will probably benefit all.


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    #124
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    according to stiglitz, some wealthy Brazilians are deeply concerned about growing wealth inequalities in their own country, and are actively getting involved in reducing it, im also aware of a group of american millionaires that are also doing something similar in their country, so id have to somewhat disagree there. have you spoken directly to all of these wealthy individuals, to confirm your opinion?

    Forgive me for being rude ( or blaze ) but i reckon Brazilians are more concerned about the carnival being cancelled than a few billionaires. I mean ever since I watched Citadel de Deus my jaw has never stopped dropping. It kind of puts things in perspective when you see Irish commies bitching about the standard of living, ffs we have it very handy ( apart from the weather ).

    I loved it when the Brazilian president told the EU to grow their own forest, sublime comeback.


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    #125
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Cienciano wrote: »
    Let them fail. What will happen if they do?
    The next biggest company will consume them and become the biggest company. Repeat ad nauseum until there's nobody left but the biggest.

    Capitalism produces monopolies by default. When the goal is the acquisition of wealth, it is inevitable that this wealth becomes concentrated in the individuals who are most efficient at acquiring that wealth.

    "Too big to fail" companies should never exist, not because they present a risk to an economy, but because they're a big red flag that your country is at risk of oligarchy.


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    #126
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Forgive me for being rude ( or blaze ) but i reckon Brazilians are more concerned about the carnival being cancelled than a few billionaires. I mean ever since I watched Citadel de Deus my jaw has never stopped dropping. It kind of puts things in perspective when you see Irish commies bitching about the standard of living, ffs we have it very handy ( apart from the weather ).

    I loved it when the Brazilian president told the EU to grow their own forest, sublime comeback.

    jesus, we really have gone down this road!:rolleyes:

    yea, amazing, err emm, 'come back'! fcuking hell!


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    #127
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Akrasia wrote: »
    The tax system should prevent billionaires from existing.)

    What a ridiculous and idiotic suggestion. If people make billions they deserve it and should not have it stolen from then by idiotic tax systems suggested by some. Communist Russia would be a pleasure compared to some of the suggestion I see people here make.

    How about you think about the combined tax paid by everyone employed by a billionaire who would not be paying it was it not for them starting the company, the hundreds of thousands of people who live good lives and spend money in their communities all because the company they work for was founded and made a success by the founder. Billionaires pay millions in income tax and many more millions in other taxes such as vat or the equivalent etc. Wanting to take their money is just pure rotten begrudgery.


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    #128
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,702 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    It kind of puts things in perspective when you see Irish commies bitching about the standard of living, ffs we have it very handy ( apart from the weather ).

    .

    Absolutely


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    #129
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Javon Young Harvester wrote: »
    What a ridiculous and idiotic suggestion. If people make billions they deserve it and should not have it stolen from then by idiotic tax systems suggested by some. Communist Russia would be a pleasure compared to some of the suggestion I see people here make.

    How about you think about the combined tax paid by everyone employed by a billionaire who would not be paying it was it not for them starting the company, the hundreds of thousands of people who live good lives and spend money in their communities all because the company they work for was founded and made a success by the founder. Billionaires pay millions in income tax and many more millions in other taxes such as vat or the equivalent etc. Wanting to take their money is just pure rotten begrudgery.

    its interesting that somebody such as warren would say that his secretary pays more tax than him, is kinna stupid!

    do they really?

    im neither communist nor Russian! i certainly dont want the ideologies of either in our societies!


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    #130
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    There's no excuse for people not to do well for themselves here. A wealth of opportunities and schemes for personal growth all within accessible reach. I think anyone who is born here is by default in the lucky 1%.

    Perspective is an invaluable thing. Imagine being born in South Sudan or somewhere.


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    #131
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    It's great when people who haven't a clue tell wealthy people their should be some cap on the money they can make.

    Bezos the son of a 17 year old single mother, who was then adopted by a first generation Cuban immigrant.


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    #132
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    There's no excuse for people not to do well for themselves here. A wealth of opportunities and schemes for personal growth all within accessible reach. I think anyone who is born here is by default in the lucky 1%.

    Perspective is an invaluable thing. Imagine being born in South Sudan or somewhere.

    unfortunately, this problem also exists here, we dont all have the same opportunities in life, hence our current social problems in relation to housing etc


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    #133
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Ush1 wrote: »
    It's great when people who haven't a clue tell wealthy people their should be some cap on the money they can make.

    Bezos the son of a 17 year old single mother, who was then adopted by a first generation Cuban immigrant.

    i dont


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    #134
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    unfortunately, this problem also exists here, we dont all have the same opportunities in life, hence our current social problems in relation to housing etc

    Ah here come out of that.

    This country is brimming with opportunity. You get educated for free. Free medical care. I have said enough.

    Go and talk to the proletariat in downtown Lagos or Kinshasa if you want to hear about "opportunities".

    Get real please.


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    #135
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    unfortunately, this problem also exists here, we dont all have the same opportunities in life, hence our current social problems in relation to housing etc

    In many of these cases, its poor life choices or upbringing however if any person is driven enough the support structures are there to hoist out of the problem via back to education schemes etc.

    The turnaround can be surprisingly quick. I think the problem is too many people use the fall back options as an excuse.


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    #136
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Ah here come out of that.

    This country is brimming with opportunity. You get educated for free. Free medical care. I have said enough.

    Go and talk to the proletariat in downtown Lagos or Kinshasa if you want to hear about "opportunities".

    Get real please.

    no we dont, a friend of mine just spent 50k getting one of his kids through 3rd level, and thats just 3rd level, god knows how much he spent through previous levels, then of course theres all the taxes he, his wife and kids have paid!

    all citizens pay some form of taxation, including the unemployed!

    yes, we generally have better opportunities than developing countries, but we still dont all have equal opportunities amongst ourselves in this country


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    #137
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    mick087 wrote: »
    It be good if they was to share this fortune with the people who make them there fortune there staff.

    a ha ha ha hah ha ha ha
    staff are nothing


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    #138
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    In many of these cases, its poor life choices or upbringing however if any person is driven enough the support structures are there to hoist out of the problem via back to education schemes etc.

    The turnaround can be surprisingly quick. I think the problem is too many people use the fall back options as an excuse.

    again, when system failure occurs, one of the most common defaults is 'personal responsibility', we dont live on the planet of equal opportunities, we also dont live in a country of equal opportunities ,we may never do so


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    #139
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,702 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    no we dont, a friend of mine just spent 50k getting one of his kids through 3rd level, and thats just 3rd level, god knows how much he spent through previous levels, then of course theres all the taxes he, his wife and kids have paid!

    all citizens pay some form of taxation, including the unemployed!

    yes, we generally have better opportunities than developing countries, but we still dont all have equal opportunities amongst ourselves in this country

    What was the make up of the 50k?

    Presume no entitlement to a grant and his or her kids went away to college ?


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    #140
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    a ha ha ha hah ha ha ha
    staff are nothing

    staff are a critical component of the wealth created, without them, little or no wealth is created


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    #141
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,702 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    staff are a critical component of the wealth created, without them, little or no wealth is created

    They are easily replaceable as a cohort in the main


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    #142
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,230 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    but the real world economy isnt that simple, and simply cannot be simplified, it is possible, by not bailing out these systemically important businesses, could lead to catastrophic outcomes, for example, theres a very high chance if the banks were not bailed out, we could potentially still be experiencing a global depression, thankfully that was prevented, or maybe delayed, who knows. but we decided not to attach strict conditions with these bailouts, this imho, was a lethal move, thankfully, some bailouts occurring now, have some attachments with them, that will probably benefit all.

    Don't call it capitalism then. Don't call them private companies. Because when it comes to helping normal people with something like healthcare, half the country think it's socialism/communism.

    This is america I'm talking about, we are a lot better here. We weren't brainwashed for the last 100 years to thinking the government doing anything makes us USSR, americans were. Partly through big business/think tanks too, god forbid they lose a dollar somewhere when they can pay someone so little they have to rely on food stamps.


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    #143
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Cyrus wrote: »
    What was the make up of the 50k?

    Presume no entitlement to a grant and his or her kids went away to college ?

    yup, mainly living costs, baring in mind, the chap was also working throughout college, most parents need to subsidies their kids to some degree, while in our educational system, both directly and indirectly


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    #144
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    no we dont, a friend of mine just spent 50k getting one of his kids through 3rd level, and thats just 3rd level, god knows how much he spent through previous levels, then of course theres all the taxes he, his wife and kids have paid!

    all citizens pay some form of taxation, including the unemployed!

    yes, we generally have better opportunities than developing countries, but we still dont all have equal opportunities amongst ourselves in this country

    Come on, please stop with the hard luck fairytales.

    Any garbage about crack babies and I walk, all things considered.


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    #145
    Greyfox
    Registered Users Posts: 3,725 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Ush1 wrote: »
    It's great when people who haven't a clue tell wealthy people their should be some cap on the money they can make.

    Sounds like you havent actually been reading the posts on here. The fact is most billionaires do more bad for humanity than good. Yes they employ a lot of taxpayers but they also put other companies with taxpayers out of business


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    #146
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,702 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    yup, mainly living costs, baring in mind, the chap was also working throughout college, most parents need to subsidies their kids to some degree, while in our educational system, both directly and indirectly

    Yes but he could obviously afford to, if you can’t you can get a grant and kids can goto a local 3rd level.


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    #147
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Cyrus wrote: »
    They are easily replaceable as a cohort in the main

    is this easibility of turnover truly working, is it by any chance leading to critical instabilities, as previously mentioned?
    Cienciano wrote: »
    Don't call it capitalism then. Don't call them private companies. Because when it comes to helping normal people with something like healthcare, half the country think it's socialism/communism.

    This is america I'm talking about, we are a lot better here. We weren't brainwashed for the last 100 years to thinking the government doing anything makes us USSR, americans were. Partly through big business/think tanks too, god forbid they lose a dollar somewhere when they can pay someone so little they have to rely on food stamps.

    disturbingly, many humans have come to believe, our current form of capitalism, encompasses all forms of capitalism, it doesnt. our current form, free market libertarianism is actually only truly a few decades old, while capitalism itself is actually a few centuries old, go figure!


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    #148
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Greyfox wrote: »
    Sounds like you havent actually been reading the posts on here. The fact is most billionaires do more bad for humanity than good. Yes they employ a lot of taxpayers but they also put other companies with taxpayers out of business

    Elaborate on these "facts" please.
    Greyfox wrote: »
    they also put other companies with taxpayers out of business[/B]

    Congratulations and welcome to Chinatown , home of the real world.


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    #149
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,837 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Ah here come out of that.

    This country is brimming with opportunity. You get educated for free. Free medical care. I have said enough.

    Go and talk to the proletariat in downtown Lagos or Kinshasa if you want to hear about "opportunities".

    Get real please.

    Free medical care is disappearing, slowly but surely. My parents in their late 70’s early 80’s both lost their medical cards last year or year before. Both are ex state employees, paid tax all their lives. My father has a long term heart issue as well as worsening arthritis. My mother has one or two complaints including arthritis herself which although manageable need medication and physiotherapy to keep on top of.. Both meds and physio are privately paid for by her.

    Yet, you can have people who land on our own shores to improve their own quality of life and economic wellbeing and get accommodation, cash, legal advice, medical treatment and a host of benefits having never contributed a red cent to the running and upkeep of the country...


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    #150
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    yes, we generally have better opportunities than developing countries, but we still dont all have equal opportunities amongst ourselves in this country

    Sounds too much like equality of outcome.

    I went to AIT which, by any measure, is not a wonderful college. Got my diploma from there, came back later to finish my degree. Paid, for the most part, by the State, although there were some fees. Later as a mature student, I received welfare support to help me further study, again in AIT. I got my MBA in Oz, which I paid for myself, and a further Bachelor, again in OZ, which I paid for myself.

    Education is mostly free in this country. Some people want the prestige of a "better" institution, and they pay for it.. but for the vast majority of people out there in Ireland, they can get a decent level of education without investing in it, as they do in other countries. Barring the requirements on the LC points (which wasn't much), anyone could have done the course I did originally.

    Equal opportunities abound. There were a wide range of students in my course 22 years ago, from all walks of life, including two Travellers. So.. nah.. equal Opportunities do exist. It's just that some people want to go to Trinity, and so, there are extra conditions to be met.

    I've known self-made millionaires, and most of them started at the bottom. The difference is that most people don't have the courage to commit themselves to an idea, and turn it into a profitable business. I've been involved in two startups both of which were reasonably successful, although there were hard times. I find that few people want to commit themselves to the dedicated lifestyle that's generally required to transform a startup into being a success.

    Equal opportunity is there. The issue is choice. Most people simply choose not to live that way.... unless it's handed to them tied together with a nice silver bow.


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    #151
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Come on, please stop with the hard luck fairytales.

    Any garbage about crack babies and I walk, all things considered.

    so the data and research proving that those born into wealthier families, have far better opportunities in life, and those that are born into relative poverty, do not, including in this country, must be wrong then! you re opportunities in life can regularly come down to your choice of parents and date of birth, just sometimes, so chose wisely!
    Cyrus wrote: »
    Yes but he could obviously afford to, if you can’t you can get a grant and kids can goto a local 3rd level.

    but sometimes you cant, and sometimes some can struggle at the earlier stages in our educational system, and fail to meet the criteria to gain access to our third level systems, some of these individuals, are 'lucky' to gain employment at minimum wage!


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