What is your view on the property market currently?

The J Stands for Jay · 07-11-2017 7:17am

Rick Shaw wrote: »

With the number of ministers and or TDs we have that are landlords, good luck ever seeing such common sense policies being introduced here.

I was listening to the NZ policies of restricting property to kiwis the other day with interest.

Seems sensible enough idea to me, but with the present and last govt ransacking grannys knicker drawer for assets to sell off to foreign vulture funds, good luck with that ever being introduced also.

We're probably only allowed to ban non EU investment. I've no idea where the vulture funds came from, so not sure if it'd make a difference.

The J Stands for Jay · 07-11-2017 7:20am

thomasm wrote: »

Ernest and Young are now giving new employees interest free loans (wage advance) to rent accomadation as the cost is a deterrent to them getting staff. That's does not bode well for other companies looking at setting up here

Yeah, but trainee accountants are on tiny salaries. They wouldn't be able to live in Dublin without the loan. It's also another way to tie them down to their training contract.

I wonder will it add to their exam stress: fail, lose job, have to get funds to repay rent loan.

The J Stands for Jay · 07-11-2017 7:27am

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

This type of thinking is a great example to what is wrong with people.

Looking at your home as an asset is a zero sum game and the reason we got into a mess in the first place.

Buy what you can afford, do not borrow more than you can afford to pay back. Do not gamble with your home, think of it as something you will pay for not flip for a quick buck!

I don't care what my house is worth, other than it is part of the LTV equation that will let me switch to a lower mortgage rate. Not because I can't afford the current mortgage, but because I'm not a mug who wants to pay more than necessary.

Wanderer78 · 07-11-2017 7:45am

McGaggs wrote:

I wonder will it add to their exam stress: fail, lose job, have to get funds to today rent loan.

Program 'Increase worker insecurity', working well!

At this stage we should be preparing for at least 10,000 people to be homeless soon, I.e. making sure there are actually that amount of beds in safe, secure and clean environments, as this problem won't be solved for the foreseeable future

Richard Hillman · 07-11-2017 7:50am

donegaLroad wrote: »

Irish mortgage interest rates are almost double the European average

I dont understand why this is, or how it can be allowed.

I also don't understand how we cannot apply for a mortgage via another EU country. Same with car insurance. We're supposed to be in a single market.

suicide_circus · 07-11-2017 7:56am

donegaLroad wrote: »

Irish mortgage interest rates are almost double the European average

I dont understand why this is, or how it can be allowed.

You'll find that a lot of things cost more here than the rest of Europe. A lot more. Pretty much any consumer good or service you care to mention.

Wanderer78 · 07-11-2017 7:58am

suicide_circus wrote:

You'll find that a lot of things cost more here than the rest of Europe. A lot more. Pretty much any consumer good or service you care to mention.

Interesting debate at Kilkenomics about this

suicide_circus · 07-11-2017 8:02am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Interesting debate at Kilkenomics about this

What's being said?

The J Stands for Jay · 07-11-2017 8:21am

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I also don't understand how we cannot apply for a mortgage via another EU country. Same with car insurance. We're supposed to be in a single market.

Nobody wants us and our inability to repossess the asset securing the loan. The insurers are scared of our delicate necks.

donegaLroad · 07-11-2017 8:23am

suicide_circus wrote: »

You'll find that a lot of things cost more here than the rest of Europe. A lot more. Pretty much any consumer good or service you care to mention.

Ok, but when you consider that the average home owner here is paying approx 250 extra per month when compared to the European average, because of Irish bank interest rates, that means a huge amount of spare cash is being sucked out of circulation.

It also means that the average home owner will pay approx 3k per annum more on their loan repayments than they should be paying, which will amount to 75k-80k over the term of the loan.

For that amount of money you could build a house.

Is this not a terrible deal, especially when we consider that the Irish tax payer has bailed out the banks, and this is the thanks that we get.

A mass default would soon send them the right message.

Wanderer78 · 07-11-2017 8:34am

suicide_circus wrote: »

What's being said?

sorry, i should have said there will be an interesting debate about this at kilkenomics this weekend

https://www.kilkenomics.com/sessions/why-is-ireland-so-bloody-expensive/

donegaLroad wrote: »

A mass default would soon send them the right message.

would that work or cause more problems for us?

suicide_circus · 07-11-2017 8:40am

donegaLroad wrote: »

Ok, but when you consider that the average home owner here is paying approx 250 extra per month when compared to the European average, because of Irish bank interest rates, that means a huge amount of spare cash is being sucked out of circulation.

It also means that the average home owner will pay approx 3k per annum more on their loan repayments than they should be paying, which will amount to 75k-80k over the term of the loan.

For that amount of money you could build a house.

Is this not a terrible deal, especially when we consider that the Irish tax payer has bailed out the banks, and this is the thanks that we get.

A mass default would soon send them the right message.

Oh I agree. The Irish public are routinely and systematically financially shafted at every turn. From VRT to the price of a pint and from mortgage interest rates to the appalling return we receive for our taxes from the health service. We are a nation of bend over artists governed by the forelock tugging bankers pet gombeens we love to elect.

ShowMeTheCash · 07-11-2017 9:11am

McGaggs wrote: »

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

This type of thinking is a great example to what is wrong with people.

Looking at your home as an asset is a zero sum game and the reason we got into a mess in the first place.

Buy what you can afford, do not borrow more than you can afford to pay back. Do not gamble with your home, think of it as something you will pay for not flip for a quick buck!

I don't care what my house is worth, other than it is part of the LTV equation that will let me switch to a lower mortgage rate. Not because I can't afford the current mortgage, but because I'm not a mug who wants to pay more than necessary.

So you do care! The LTV has everything to do with the loan also you really need to factor in interest rates. I think the current climate of low interest rates has put people to sleep, interest rates in the 80s jumped to 16% at a stage.
There are models to what you can affoard, I know too many people who are levergaged way too tight, if interest rates jumped to 6 or 7% I think we could see a lot of people default..... Why? Because they where given loans they cannot afford and are now in negative equity.

Cina · 07-11-2017 10:57am

suicide_circus wrote: »

You'll find that a lot of things cost more here than the rest of Europe. A lot more. Pretty much any consumer good or service you care to mention.

I think you should visit other capitals like London, Paris, Oslo, Reykjavik, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Amsterdam, Moscow, Rome, etc. etc. and then revisit that statement.

suicide_circus · 07-11-2017 11:06am

Cina wrote: »

I think you should visit other capitals like London, Paris, Oslo, Reykjavik, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Amsterdam, Moscow, Rome, etc. etc. and then revisit that statement.

I'm not talking about capital cities.

Cina · 07-11-2017 11:20am

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm not talking about capital cities.

The same applies to the countries themselves, though. It's just a bit like Ireland where the capital is the most expensive.

The only European exceptions I can think of are Portugal and Germany, and obviously some of the poorer countries.

People in Ireland seem to see us as some ultra mega expensive country where we're overcharged for everything but really, we're about on par with the other countries of our GDP/median wages, in some cases cheaper.

suicide_circus · 07-11-2017 11:26am

Cina wrote: »

The same applies to the countries themselves, though. It's just a bit like Ireland where the capital is the most expensive.

The only European exceptions I can think of are Portugal and Germany, and obviously some of the poorer countries.

People in Ireland seem to see us as some ultra mega expensive country where we're overcharged for everything but really, we're about on par with the other countries of our GDP/median wages, in some cases cheaper.

OK but in a follow up post I specified VRT, alcohol, mortgage interest and return on taxes in terms of quality of health care. We're certainly being shafted on these.

Cina · 07-11-2017 11:34am

suicide_circus wrote: »

OK but in a follow up post I specified VRT, alcohol, mortgage interest and return on taxes in terms of quality of health care. We're certainly being shafted on these.

I'd say mortgage interest is the only one of those that's genunely sh*t compared to the EU average, sure.

I was in Holland over the summer and couldn't find a pint for less than a fiver anywhere. Average pint in Amsterdam was €6 minimum, even more than the seemingly crazy expensive Dublin.

Our healthcare isn't great, sure, but there are still much worse out there.

VRT isn't great compared to the UK but I have friends in the UK who say their cost of living is way beyond ours, between paying their LPT to water charges and whatnot, coupled with much lower social welfare and benefits and basically the same tax rates.

I just find it a bit frustrating when people on here constantly moan about ireland and how crap we are and how awful the country is for everything when in fact it's a pretty amazing place to live, despite its flaws, and we're lucky to be here and not in one of the 150-170 countries in the world with a far lower standard of living than us.

The J Stands for Jay · 07-11-2017 11:35am

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

So you do care! The LTV has everything to do with the loan also you really need to factor in interest rates. I think the current climate of low interest rates has put people to sleep, interest rates in the 80s jumped to 16% at a stage.
There are models to what you can affoard, I know too many people who are levergaged way too tight, if interest rates jumped to 6 or 7% I think we could see a lot of people default..... Why? Because they where given loans they cannot afford and are now in negative equity.

I can afford the mortgage as it is, or if the rate gets higher. I'd like a lower rate to give me more free cash each month, and maybe to start overpaying to get rid of it quicker.

suicide_circus · 07-11-2017 11:43am

Cina wrote: »

I just find it a bit frustrating when people on here constantly moan about ireland and how crap we are and how awful the country is for everything when in fact it's a pretty amazing place to live, despite its flaws, and we're lucky to be here and not in one of the 150-170 countries in the world with a far lower standard of living than us.

Ah yeah I'll agree with you there, we're no where near as **** as we think we are but nowhere in europe have I been that I feel the value for money is worse than ireland. Except for Oslo.

Cina · 07-11-2017 11:46am

suicide_circus wrote: »

Ah yeah I'll agree with you there, we're no where near as **** as we think we are but nowhere in europe have I been that I feel the value for money is worse than ireland. Except for Oslo.

I've been to quite a few myself

Plus it's important to consider that the wages here are higher on average than most of Europe, bar the Scandinavians and Swiss. Inflation and cost of living generally reflects wages, after all.

The only real exception I can think of is Germany, Berlin is just crazy cheap for the capital city of one of the world's richest countries. They know how to do it right!

suicide_circus · 07-11-2017 11:52am

^^^^economies of scale and about 70 years of completely peaceful industrial relations!

McMurphy · 07-11-2017 11:52am

Cina wrote: »

I think you should visit other capitals like London, Paris, Oslo, Reykjavik, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Amsterdam, Moscow, Rome, etc. etc. and then revisit that statement.

Capital city's v National average?

That's like comparing a 4 bed detached house on a few acres in Drumshambo with a similar house in Howth.

donegaLroad · 07-11-2017 12:08pm

Route1 wrote: »

House prices spiralling out of control, particularly in Dublin. A shortage of rental accommodation sees rents at and all time high?
What do you see as the solution?

I know its been said here on boards.ie over again, but surely relocation of large employers to rural locations would have to solve the problem to some extent.

I heard it discussed on the radio that part of the advantage Dublin has is when prospective Tech companies send in their personnel to find suitable locations from where the business could operate, a couple of Irish agents in Dublin meet them off the flight, take them to a location down the M50, show them around for a couple of hours. Then they grab lunch and are on the afternoon flight out of Dublin. Job done.

Its a lot handier than having to drive 2 or 3 hours up the road to look at a premises in Sligo, for example.

whisky_galore · 07-11-2017 1:55pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Controversial opinion, but I personally think we need to do away with the idea of a dwelling as an "asset" altogether, and ban people from trading them as such..

That'll never take off, because there's a huge industry built around it...people make great big wodges of cash out of 'the market' and care little or nothing for the social consequences, feeding off the desperation of the less well off attempting to put roofs over their heads. It'd be like turkeys voting for the proverbial.

Land and property are engrained in Irish culture. An obsession. There's so much property porn on Irish TV and media...it was beaten into us from our agrarian forebears who had to put up with renting, you're seen as somewhat of a failure if you can't manage to have a place of your own.

diomed · 07-11-2017 2:01pm

Too much credit, interest rates too low. Everyone is chasing scarce assets with cheap borrowed money and forcing up prices. It is a boom.
People talking about vulture funds should realise that they buy when prices are distressed and few are buying.
I paid 17% mortgage interest. Current property market, new world problems.

ShowMeTheCash · 07-11-2017 2:03pm

McGaggs wrote: »

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

So you do care! The LTV has everything to do with the loan also you really need to factor in interest rates. I think the current climate of low interest rates has put people to sleep, interest rates in the 80s jumped to 16% at a stage.
There are models to what you can affoard, I know too many people who are levergaged way too tight, if interest rates jumped to 6 or 7% I think we could see a lot of people default..... Why? Because they where given loans they cannot afford and are now in negative equity.

I can afford the mortgage as it is, or if the rate gets higher. I'd like a lower rate to give me more free cash each month, and maybe to start overpaying to get rid of it quicker.

Well as I said the models out there are to help allow for other things.
They say your mortgage should not exceed 25 - 28% of your Gross per month, personally I think even that is too high based on an average wage.
But I guess it really comes down to what you earn. Need to allow for life changes, family, kids even sickness....
Lets put it this way. Let's say a mortgage of 250K over 25 years repayment of around 1300 pm when interest rates are still realitvely low.
That would suggest you need to be earning 65k+ before you should even consider taking on that kind of debt and even at this I would still consider this madness! Another model would be 2.5 times you salaray so maybe on 100K per year buy a house at 250K would be affordable!

Dohnjoe · 07-11-2017 2:13pm

Cina wrote: »

I'd say mortgage interest is the only one of those that's genunely sh*t compared to the EU average, sure.

I was in Holland over the summer and couldn't find a pint for less than a fiver anywhere. Average pint in Amsterdam was €6 minimum, even more than the seemingly crazy expensive Dublin.

Our healthcare isn't great, sure, but there are still much worse out there.

VRT isn't great compared to the UK but I have friends in the UK who say their cost of living is way beyond ours, between paying their LPT to water charges and whatnot, coupled with much lower social welfare and benefits and basically the same tax rates.

I just find it a bit frustrating when people on here constantly moan about ireland and how crap we are and how awful the country is for everything when in fact it's a pretty amazing place to live, despite its flaws, and we're lucky to be here and not in one of the 150-170 countries in the world with a far lower standard of living than us.

Absolutely, we have a dreadful habit of genuinely thinking we have it so bad - I live in Europe and I pay eye watering amounts of tax compared to my Irish friends

donegaLroad · 07-11-2017 2:16pm

diomed wrote: »

Too much credit, interest rates too low. Everyone is chasing scarce assets with cheap borrowed money and forcing up prices. It is a boom.
People talking about vulture funds should realise that they buy when prices are distressed and few are buying.
I paid 17% mortgage interest. Current property market, new world problems.

Are you refrring to a time when property prices were much lower though?

ShowMeTheCash · 07-11-2017 2:17pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Cina wrote: »

I'd say mortgage interest is the only one of those that's genunely sh*t compared to the EU average, sure.

I was in Holland over the summer and couldn't find a pint for less than a fiver anywhere. Average pint in Amsterdam was €6 minimum, even more than the seemingly crazy expensive Dublin.

Our healthcare isn't great, sure, but there are still much worse out there.

VRT isn't great compared to the UK but I have friends in the UK who say their cost of living is way beyond ours, between paying their LPT to water charges and whatnot, coupled with much lower social welfare and benefits and basically the same tax rates.

I just find it a bit frustrating when people on here constantly moan about ireland and how crap we are and how awful the country is for everything when in fact it's a pretty amazing place to live, despite its flaws, and we're lucky to be here and not in one of the 150-170 countries in the world with a far lower standard of living than us.

Absolutely, we have a dreadful habit of genuinely thinking we have it so bad - I live in Europe and I pay eye watering amounts of tax compared to my Irish friends

Where in europe, what is the average wage in that country?
In order to do a true comparison we need to factor in all things.
I might pay a much higher rental if I take on a contract in say London but I can also charge double or more on my daily rate when in London so it is relative!

What is your view on the property market currently?

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