What is your view on the property market currently?

Edward M

Karsini wrote: »

I really don't understand why there's such a chronic shortage. Are there significantly more people living in Ireland now than there were in 2008? The cynic in me thinks that some property is deliberately being left to sit in order to keep prices high.

Back in 2010 I rented a two bed apartment alone in Fairview for €650 a month. I'm now living in a 4-way house share in Swords for €550. It's terrible.

2010, a lifetime ago and certainly a recession ago, you can't compare really.

zweton

thomasm wrote: »

Ernest and Young are now giving new employees interest free loans (wage advance) to rent accomadation as the cost is a deterrent to them getting staff. That's does not bode well for other companies looking at setting up here

maybe it could benefit other countys.

Edward M

Edward M wrote: »

2010, a lifetime ago and certainly a recession ago, you can't compare really.

While that may be the case, should the same place be worth double that (or more) now? I really don't think so.

LirW

Edward M wrote: »

2010, a lifetime ago and certainly a recession ago, you can't compare really.

Still pretty depressing that singles on an average wage can't afford the luxury of renting their own place nevermind buying.
I know a guy in his late 50s who has to move out of his own place because it'll be sold, yet he can't afford living on his own, no landlord wants him as a mature single and no houseshare considers him.
Yet he earns too much for social housing which he wouldn't get anyway in his lifetime.

tastyt

A huge problem for supply at the minute is movers. A friend of mine is a mortgage advisor and told me a large percentage of movers are opting to hold onto their original properties and rent them out when they move to a new home.

The banks are letting them do this as they can charge stupid rent that more than covers their mortgages on the original property, thus taking more houses out of the market for the likes of first time buyers and taking advantage of the fact that more of these househunters will have to stay renting.

Its a vicious circle

ShowMeTheCash

Ipso wrote: »

Vulture funds seem to be a favourite to blame for the property bubble now, my point is that a lot of people were happy with high house prices from 2003 onwards and voted that way.

Ever hear this phrase:

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

You are being ridiculous, no one was "happy" with high house prices! The housing market was getting out of control but the prices kept going up and up. It actually made more sense to buy a house with 0% deposit because house prices where moving at a rate that by the time you saved your 10% the housing market could of jumped 15%.

Anyone who bought a house in 2003 - 2007 probably paid way over the odds.

lazybones32

Ipso wrote: »

Vulture funds seem to be a favourite to blame for the property bubble now, my point is that a lot of people were happy with high house prices from 2003 onwards and voted that way.

And what were the opposition parties doing while FF were destroying the State? Sitting in the back seat, delighted to be on the journey.
I voted FG in the snap election (and i never willagain) but as soon as they got into power, they did what they weeks previously chastised FF for proposing to do. Not trying to redirect the thread but the majority of the public representatives failed us...and we still vote for them! This wasn't a failure of one party only.

maxwell smart

Ipso wrote: »

Why sovereign wealth funds and not vulture funds though? Not having a go at you but I think people want to see bogey man and vulture funds are it.

There was an article recently in either the indo or times where the writer went to a court hearing involving a house owner and a vulture fund who bough the loan and she said the vulture fund were happy enough as long as the mortgage owner were wiling to co-operate.
I guarantee there were people who bought investment properties during the bubble who stopped making payments and hoped loans would be wrote off and I'm certain there are others who want debt forgiveness while wanting to keep the house.

Listen I'm happy for any investment in my made up scheme. Vulture funds are just a catchy name for people who buy low and sell high and a great way for the hard left to blame someone for all the troubles in the world while they don't come up with a solution

Edward M

Karsini wrote: »

While that may be the case, should the same place be worth double that (or more) now? I really don't think so.

No, you're right of course. But the demand is higher now than 2010 in Dublin. I live in Cavan myself, work locally, but most of my friends work in Dublin, some commute, some stay up there, house shares and shared apartments. I could be getting more money if I worked in Dublin and surrounds, but I think the extra would be eaten up either way.
All I'm saying is that my locality is not unique in being in that situation, the accommodation is being eaten up in Dublin not by residents alone, but by the weekly workers travelling there.
Demand is much higher now than 2010, that's fuelling the prices.

Ulysses Gaze

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Ever hear this phrase:

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

You are being ridiculous, no one was "happy" with high house prices! The housing market was getting out of control but the prices kept going up and up. It actually made more sense to buy a house with 0% deposit because house prices where moving at a rate that by the time you saved your 10% the housing market could of jumped 15%.

Anyone who bought a house in 2003 - 2007 probably paid way over the odds.

You are wrong there.

The Jagger Generation (as David McWilliams dubbed them) were very happy about rising House Prices. The majority owned their houses outright and could leverage the house value increases to dip in and use their houses as ATMs. And apart from cars and holidays, what was the main thing they bought?

B.T.L.s and Holiday Homes. Here and abroad.

ShowMeTheCash

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

You are wrong there.

The Jagger Generation (as David McWilliams dubbed them) were very happy about rising House Prices. The majority owned their houses outright and could leverage the house value increases to dip in and use their houses as ATMs. And apart from cars and holidays, what was the main thing they bought?

B.T.L.s and Holiday Homes. Here and abroad.

I do not think anyone was happy about this. I think it just fueled a fear that people "had" to get onto the merry go round. Once on your house price would only go up.

But regardless it was really a false economy, was not real! Anyone that was "happy" was a fool!

Jawgap

emo72 wrote: »

They are part of the problem. Not the only one. Portfolios of hundreds of houses bundled together that only billionaires could afford to buy. That's stitched up.

Except vulture funds are incentivised to get people into houses.....so how are they part of the problem?

My young lad's gf will be going to uni in Dublin later in the year and her Dad has just bought an apartment for her to use, but he's keeping it vacant for the next 8 months or so as he doesn't want "the hassle of tenants" until after his daughter has finished with it.

ShowMeTheCash

Jawgap wrote: »

Except vulture funds are incentivised to get people into houses.....so how are they part of the problem?

My young lad's gf will be going to uni in Dublin later in the year and her Dad has just bought an apartment for her to use, but he's keeping it vacant for the next 8 months or so as he doesn't want "the hassle of tenants" until after his daughter has finished with it.

It creates another "false" economy, it pushes rent up. I am sure homeless people really do not want "the hassle of sleeping rough" either.

McMurphy

Ipso wrote: »

I don't disagree, I just don't buy the whole poor Irish people getting screwed over by yet another outside entity.
During the first credit bubble there were people who actually believed Ireland was the richest country in the world, people who spoke up about future problems were told to commit suicide by the glorious leader, the party that led the way tot eh first bubble and bankrupted the country were re-elected, the minister mainly responsible for bailing out Anglo was re-elected, someone from the party who bankrupted the country was in serious contention for the presidency, the party who bankrupted the country could be re-elected the next time around and then you have the emergence of the far left groups who thinks there is unlimited money to throw around and who don't know the difference between austerity and bankruptcy.

Tweedle Dee was at the helm, but Tweedle Dum was constantly criticising them that they weren't spending more, giving more tax breaks, and basically getting us into deeper shyt.

Two cheeks of the same arse.

BillyBobBS

FG have lead us here. They are as bad if not worse than FF.

Ulysses Gaze

BillyBobBS wrote: »

FG have lead us here. They are as bad if not worse than FF.

I would respectfully disagree with you here.
No-one could be worse than FF. No-one.

They were given the economic keys to the Kingdom and really ****ed it all up.

Atoms for Peace

Property is theft!:pac:

stateofflux

as crazy as the market is, if you have the money its probably better off buying now as its only going to get worse before it gets better.

Ipso

stateofflux wrote: »

as crazy as the market is, if you have the money its probably better off buying now as its only going to get worse before it gets better.

Isn't that what Brendan O'Connor said in his smart and ballsy article. If you google it you'll see it was a smart and ballsy article.

Ulysses Gaze

Ipso wrote: »

Isn't that what Brendan O'Connor said in his smart and ballsy article. If you google it you'll see it was a smart and ballsy article.

The Oracle of Bishopstown

Has never been wrong.

Ever.

Ever.

Ipso

stateofflux wrote: »

as crazy as the market is, if you have the money its probably better off buying now as its only going to get worse before it gets better.

Depends what you mean by worse; if you're interested in buying a house then it's worse for prices to go up but if you've just bought then it's worse if prices go down.

ShowMeTheCash

Ipso wrote: »

Depends what you mean by worse; if you're interested in buying a house then it's worse for prices to go up but if you've just bought then it's worse if prices go down.

This type of thinking is a great example to what is wrong with people.

Looking at your home as an asset is a zero sum game and the reason we got into a mess in the first place.

Buy what you can afford, do not borrow more than you can afford to pay back. Do not gamble with your home, think of it as something you will pay for not flip for a quick buck!

Ipso

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

This type of thinking is a great example to what is wrong with people.

Looking at your home as an asset is a zero sum game and the reason we got into a mess in the first place.

Buy what you can afford, do not borrow more than you can afford to pay back. Do not gamble with your home, think of it as something you will pay for not flip for a quick buck!

That's what I meant earlier when I said that people were happy with high house prices, they saw something they "owned" as increasing in value.
But of course if they sold their house and went to buy another one then that most likely went up in value also, unless you were down sizing or moving to a less expensive area.
Ultimately I think the problem in Ireland was down to the economy following the housing market instead of the other way around.

_Kaiser_

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I would respectfully disagree with you here.
No-one could be worse than FF. No-one.

They were given the economic keys to the Kingdom and really ****ed it all up.

As opposed to FG who sat back and fuelled another property mess in the guise of a "Recovery", allowed foreign investors to snap up huge swathes of property at bargain prices which they are now charging renters extortionate amounts for, and have done pretty much fúck all in the last 2 years despite the worsening crisis.

FG are no better than FF... we just don't see it as often because they almost never get elected. Even now they're only in power because not enough people are ready to let FF back at it - but don't worry, that time will come again soon. In the meantime FF get to pull the strings anyway.

We as a country have learned nothing from the last decade.

ShowMeTheCash

Ipso wrote: »

That's what I meant earlier when I said that people were happy with high house prices, they saw something they "owned" as increasing in value.
But of course if they sold their house and went to buy another one then that most likely went up in value also, unless you were down sizing or moving to a less expensive area.
Ultimately I think the problem in Ireland was down to the economy following the housing market instead of the other way around.

Again a zero sum game, it does not really increase in value what does increase however is debt.

Let's say you buy a 3 bed house for 250K and a few years later it is worth 300K. Even if you sold your house to buy another house. A three bed is now coming in at 300K so you have not gained anything. You just going to be exactly where you had been before.

ShowMeTheCash

Ipso wrote: »

That's what I meant earlier when I said that people were happy with high house prices, they saw something they "owned" as increasing in value.
But of course if they sold their house and went to buy another one then that most likely went up in value also, unless you were down sizing or moving to a less expensive area.
Ultimately I think the problem in Ireland was down to the economy following the housing market instead of the other way around.

But ultimately yes I agree with what you are saying.

donegaLroad

Irish mortgage interest rates are almost double the European average

I dont understand why this is, or how it can be allowed.

Ipso

donegaLroad wrote: »

Irish mortgage interest rates are almost double the European average

I dont understand why this is, or how it can be allowed.

Possibly risk related. Don't banks have a lot of non performing loans that they aren't fore closing on?
If there is a potential for future loans to be non performing then they will price it into their current rates.

Ronaldinho

Route1 wrote: »

House prices spiraling out of control, particularly in Dublin.

I wouldn't say they're out of control. Using the CSO's residential property price index for Dublin we're well off the highs from '06/'07.

From the 2006 to 2016 census the population of the Greater Dublin Area has increased by over 240,000. I'm amazed this isn't highlighted more.

That's a lot of dwellings needed just to stand still.

If the population keeps growing, helped by a strong labour market - then it's going to put continued pressure on rents especially and also house prices. And lower income households will keep getting squeezed.

Victor

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Controversial opinion, but I personally think we need to do away with the idea of a dwelling as an "asset" altogether, and ban people from trading them as such.

And how would we do that?

pummice wrote: »

Read recently that New Zealand were going to bring in a ban on foreigners buying property in New Zealand.

You could ban non-EU citizens, but that still leaves 500 million people who could buy property here.

Maybe we should try that here, for a start Vulture Funds wouldnt be able to buy property here.

'Vulture Funds' have no particular interest in owning property. They would much prefer to either come to a deal with the owner or sell it. They want the cash, not the property.