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Is it me??

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Comments

  • #152
    timple23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭timple23


    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    Maybe Patsy, but what’s real when it comes to investing?
    Surely a lot of stocks are based on what people think they’re worth? And they can go up and down...
    Some companies have assets, but a lot now don’t - its all software and intellectual property...
    And anyone who has a pension has some sort of stocks...

    I don’t know much about Bitcoin, but I think to write it off as a fad might be wrong...

    As someone above did, they invested in bitcoin rather than a calf... I wish I invested :)
    Now I know bitcoin could tank, but an animal could die too :)

    I was actually the guy. Can't a board of management dilute your share in a company, I'm sure a lot of people haven't forgotten people who had invested in banks.

    Personally I only invest what I can lose. I still have money in bitcoin. I wish the government would bring back the SSIA scheme or similar but thats unlikely.


  • #153
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    cryptocurrency is also a disaster for the environment in the amount of energy used

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56215787

    Can't see that being ignored when everything is going green


  • #154
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    If it's one's and zeros you want I have loads of them.:D

    1010101010101010101001010101010101010101010

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • #155
    Dunedin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭Dunedin


    timple23 wrote: »
    If you had €1000 to invest, where would you put it?

    I’d start with 50 freisin bulls and go to 75 next year.....


  • #156
    SuperTortoise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,034 ✭✭✭SuperTortoise


    I was reading an article on gold recently and one of the comments underneath the article stayed with me, it read:
    'Unless you can physically touch it, you don't own it'.


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  • #157
    farawaygrass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,954 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    SuperTortoise wrote: »
    I was reading an article on gold recently and one of the comments underneath the article stayed with me, it read:
    'Unless you can physically touch it, you don't own it'.

    A guy was telling me there one day that whoever sells the gold is selling it more than once. So if ten people bought €100 worth of gold and all went to cash it in together there would be problems. That’s the jist, he was better at explaining it.


  • #158
    carrollsno1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭carrollsno1


    farawaygrass wrote: »
    A guy was telling me there one day that whoever sells the gold is selling it more than once. So if ten people bought €100 worth of gold and all went to cash it in together there would be problems. That’s the jist, he was better at explaining it.

    Like a similar scheme i heard of in England back in the day where lads bought and sold the same house between a handful of them and they all turned a few pound on it but at the end of it there was nothing left for the bank. It was explained several times to me but i still cant get my head around it.

    Better living everyone



  • #159
    richie123
    Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭richie123


    carrollsno1 wrote: »
    Like a similar scheme i heard of in England back in the day where lads bought and sold the same house between a handful of them and they all turned a few pound on it but at the end of it there was nothing left for the bank. It was explained several times to me but i still cant get my head around it.

    Because the last lad that bought it got caught bag holding and lost every penny he had.thats why the bank got no money :)


  • #160
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    farawaygrass wrote: »
    A guy was telling me there one day that whoever sells the gold is selling it more than once. So if ten people bought €100 worth of gold and all went to cash it in together there would be problems. That’s the jist, he was better at explaining it.


    Or more bleak outlook.......the irish government 100K saving gaurantee is only worth paper its wrote on....if push came to shove in morning and banks collasped,it wouldnt be able to raise money needed to gaurantee these savings


  • #161
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,478 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Or more bleak outlook.......the irish government 100K saving gaurantee is only worth paper its wrote on....if push came to shove in morning and banks collasped,it wouldnt be able to raise money needed to gaurantee these savings

    The purpose of the guarantee is to prevent banks collapsing. If it wasn't there as soon as there was a whisper the bank had some kind of trouble everyone would rush in to withdraw their money and this would collapse the banks.

    On crypto currencies, most transactions are online nowadays. I get paid and pay bills and for 90% of it I never see anything other than something on a screen. I suppose the difference is the euro has governments backing it.


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  • #162
    leoch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 928 ✭✭✭leoch


    So if a business had a few hundred thousand in the bank and its costing money to keep it there would it be better or safer investing it in land or property or something along those lines


  • #163
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    richie123 wrote: »
    Bitcoin lol

    I used to laugh at bitcoin

    But if you think about it the dollar is the world reserve currency and its been off the gold standard for like 40 odd years and the US has over 20 trillion of debt now

    What about art where a signed print of a famous painters work can make five hundred to a thousand and the original work might be like an indistinguishable scrawl or just two different colours


  • #164
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    Bitcoin ......

    ".....there are more than 4,000 cryptocurrencies in existence as of January 2021."

    There's even one called Titcoin, I kid you not. The whole thing is a joke.
    Yes, and by the same logic, you are free to compete with Facebook or Google tomorrow. You can replicate their businesses. How far do you think you will get? Anyone can start a crypto project. Bitcoin has network effect to the tune of a market capitalisation in excess of $1 trillion.
    You were of that belief exactly one year ago when I tried to lay out for you what bitcoin brings to the table. It was below $7,000 then - today, it's just below $59,000. Maybe its time to have another look.
    timple23 wrote: »
    If you had €1000 to invest, where would you put it? I really need to start learning about investing.
    For someone new to the space, I wouldn't look beyond bitcoin for right now. However, don't get greedy, and don't put in more than a few percent of your savings. Within that, try and dollar cost average in - as in very small purchases every week/month. Over the shorter term, there is risk - it's an immature market that's volatile. If you dollar cost average in, then you smooth out the peaks and troughs and won't get burnt. Over and above that, make sure that you don't over extend yourself. If you get to a point where you're losing a wink of sleep over what you've put in, then your position size is wrong and needs to be reduced.
    laoch na mona wrote: »
    cryptocurrency is also a disaster for the environment in the amount of energy used

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56215787

    Can't see that being ignored when everything is going green
    One of a plethora of articles that's inaccurate in its take.
    Youtube uses more energy than the bitcoin blockchain yet where are the shock-horror articles claiming that people watching cat videos are boiling the oceans? Gaming uses multiple times more energy than bitcoin. Yet the energy mix that goes into bitcoin is far greener than that of gaming or youtube. Bitcoin miners can use energy at source in the back of beyond where there is no other use case for excess renewable energy. They are the buyers of last resort of energy - so it has to be the cheapest energy in existence...which invariably is wasted renewable energy.
    Here's an article that gives the counter-view to the likes of that bbc article.
    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    I suppose the difference is the euro has governments backing it.
    Backed by guns - as in you're forced to use the stuff. That is the only backing sovereign currencies have. Still, that didn't help the Greeks or the Cypriots out a few years back - and we were within a hairs breadth of a similar decision ourselves. (you can self custody bitcoin - meaning that governments and banks can't get their slimy mitts on your hard earned savings).
    It hasn't been helpful to the Turks in the last couple of weeks, the Lebanese last year, the Argentinians all the bloody time, the Venezuelans for the last few years...and well,, you get the picture.
    leoch wrote: »
    So if a business had a few hundred thousand in the bank and its costing money to keep it there would it be better or safer investing it in land or property or something along those lines
    Gold, bitcoin, property/land...but the problem is that there's been a lot of asset price inflation because we're dealing in monopoly money and people don't know where the hell to seek a safe haven or decent yield any more.
    SuperTortoise wrote:
    I was reading an article on gold recently and one of the comments underneath the article stayed with me, it read:
    'Unless you can physically touch it, you don't own it'.
    Gold is a proven store of value going back donkeys years. However, as its a physical asset, it's centralised and as a result, its manipulated. Most people own gold through gold funds, etc - so they have a paper claim. Just like banks over extend themselves with fractional reserve banking practices, wall street does the same with gold. Who's to say if the physical gold is there to meet it? Gold can also be faked. Last Summer, 83 tonnes of fake gold was found in China - it was the backing for $3 billion worth of loans. The very same issue can arise with other commodities.
    You can self custody gold but its much harder to get your hands on physical gold. When you do, where do you store it and can you be sure its the real deal? Where do you sell it if you need to? On the other hand, bitcoin can't be faked and its easier to self custody, transport, sell, etc.


  • #165
    timple23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭timple23


    makeorbrake wrote: »
    Yes, and by the same logic, you are free to compete with Facebook or Google tomorrow. You can replicate their businesses. How far do you think you will get? Anyone can start a crypto project. Bitcoin has network effect to the tune of a market capitalisation in excess of $1 trillion.
    You were of that belief exactly one year ago when I tried to lay out for you what bitcoin brings to the table. It was below $7,000 then - today, it's just below $59,000. Maybe its time to have another look.


    For someone new to the space, I wouldn't look beyond bitcoin for right now. However, don't get greedy, and don't put in more than a few percent of your savings. Within that, try and dollar cost average in - as in very small purchases every week/month. Over the shorter term, there is risk - it's an immature market that's volatile. If you dollar cost average in, then you smooth out the peaks and troughs and won't get burnt. Over and above that, make sure that you don't over extend yourself. If you get to a point where you're losing a wink of sleep over what you've put in, then your position size is wrong and needs to be reduced.


    One of a plethora of articles that's inaccurate in its take.
    Youtube uses more energy than the bitcoin blockchain yet where are the shock-horror articles claiming that people watching cat videos are boiling the oceans? Gaming uses multiple times more energy than bitcoin. Yet the energy mix that goes into bitcoin is far greener than that of gaming or youtube. Bitcoin miners can use energy at source in the back of beyond where there is no other use case for excess renewable energy. They are the buyers of last resort of energy - so it has to be the cheapest energy in existence...which invariably is wasted renewable energy.
    Here's an article that gives the counter-view to the likes of that bbc article.

    Backed by guns - as in you're forced to use the stuff. That is the only backing sovereign currencies have. Still, that didn't help the Greeks or the Cypriots out a few years back - and we were within a hairs breadth of a similar decision ourselves. (you can self custody bitcoin - meaning that governments and banks can't get their slimy mitts on your hard earned savings).
    It hasn't been helpful to the Turks in the last couple of weeks, the Lebanese last year, the Argentinians all the bloody time, the Venezuelans for the last few years...and well,, you get the picture.


    Gold, bitcoin, property/land...but the problem is that there's been a lot of asset price inflation because we're dealing in monopoly money and people don't know where the hell to seek a safe haven or decent yield any more.


    Gold is a proven store of value going back donkeys years. However, as its a physical asset, it's centralised and as a result, its manipulated. Most people own gold through gold funds, etc - so they have a paper claim. Just like banks over extend themselves with fractional reserve banking practices, wall street does the same with gold. Who's to say if the physical gold is there to meet it? Gold can also be faked. Last Summer, 83 tonnes of fake gold was found in China - it was the backing for $3 billion worth of loans. The very same issue can arise with other commodities.
    You can self custody gold but its much harder to get your hands on physical gold. When you do, where do you store it and can you be sure its the real deal? Where do you sell it if you need to? On the other hand, bitcoin can't be faked and its easier to self custody, transport, sell, etc.

    I actually don't own the bitcoin, I just buy through revolut as I don't have the equipment or knowledge to mine it. (I am aware of the risk with revolut).

    Regarding currency conversion. Revolut have a feature where you can set an auto trade if a certain rate is reached. So say if the dollar hits 1.19, I could convert €100 to dollar, and if it drops to 1.16 I could auto convert dollar back to euro. I have wondered if this was worth doing, but never did the sums.


  • #166
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Bitcoin and all the other cryptocurrencies are just clever ponzi schemes. Think about it, the only way you can make a profit on bitcoin is to sell it on to someone else at a higher price. They in turn have to sell it on to someone else. It doesn't create any profit of it's own.
    That by it's nature is a ponzi scheme. People have got caught out with ponzi schemes before and they will again.

    Have a look at what the world's greatest investor has to say about it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtITDtZPYEw&t=40s

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • #167
    timple23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭timple23


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    Bitcoin and all the other cryptocurrencies are just clever ponzi schemes. Think about it, the only way you can make a profit on bitcoin is to sell it on to someone else at a higher price.

    Can you tell me the difference between what you said and shares. Can't be a ponzi scheme as bitcoin has a finite amount.


  • #168
    duffysfarm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 851 ✭✭✭duffysfarm


    bitcoin is the modern day version of the Tulip mania from the 1600's


  • #169
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    The purpose of the guarantee is to prevent banks collapsing. If it wasn't there as soon as there was a whisper the bank had some kind of trouble everyone would rush in to withdraw their money and this would collapse the banks.

    Its essentially just a confidence trick.....its not worth anything though

    If,heaven forbid,push came to shove and was needed,the state wouldnt be able to raise the funds to cover it or hasnt it on hand either


  • #170
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    timple23 wrote: »
    Can you tell me the difference between what you said and shares. Can't be a ponzi scheme as bitcoin has a finite amount.

    When you buy a share, you buy a share of that company. That company will earn a profit, which you get in the form of a dividend.

    I don't understand you second sentence.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • #171
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    Bitcoin and all the other cryptocurrencies are just clever ponzi schemes. Think about it, the only way you can make a profit on bitcoin is to sell it on to someone else at a higher price. They in turn have to sell it on to someone else. It doesn't create any profit of it's own.
    That by it's nature is a ponzi scheme. People have got caught out with ponzi schemes before and they will again.

    Have a look at what the world's greatest investor has to say about it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtITDtZPYEw&t=40s

    But can you not use bitcoin to buy items?

    Google tells me you can - https://cointelegraph.com/bitcoin-for-beginners/what-can-i-buy-with-bitcoins

    So, you could wait for it to increase, or you could just spend it?

    The same as you can do with dollars - wait for the foreign exchange to increase, and then change it back to euros? Or buy something online maybe for dollars?

    :confused:


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  • #172
    roosterman71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,717 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Designed a house last year and got building quotes. Had to call a halt to starting when the pandemic got hold. Looking to get it going again soon now and price to build has gone up 40% in about 14 months. Won't be built now cos can't afford it anymore :(


  • #173
    duffysfarm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 851 ✭✭✭duffysfarm


    bitcoin has a finite amount - yes but it was created from nothing. that in itself is an issue

    timple23 wrote: »
    Can you tell me the difference between what you said and shares. Can't be a ponzi scheme as bitcoin has a finite amount.


  • #174
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    farawaygrass wrote: »
    A guy was telling me there one day that whoever sells the gold is selling it more than once. So if ten people bought €100 worth of gold and all went to cash it in together there would be problems. That’s the jist, he was better at explaining it.




    Thats called shorting they do it on stocks as well. basically selling the same share multiple times on the assumption the price of your share will go up determines the profit or loss


  • #175
    Feisar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Feisar


    roosterman71 wrote: »
    Designed a house last year and got building quotes. Had to call a halt to starting when the pandemic got hold. Looking to get it going again soon now and price to build has gone up 40% in about 14 months. Won't be built now cos can't afford it anymore :(

    Give it 18 months, you'll be grand. There is some hangover coming after all this.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #176
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    Thats called shorting they do it on stocks as well. basically selling the same share multiple times on the assumption the price of your share will go up determines the profit or loss

    shorting is where you bet the price of the underlying asset goes down

    the one shorting sells the stock ( without ever owning it ) , assuming the price goes down ( it obviously may not ) , they then at some stage buy the stock ( called covering ) for real and pocket the difference from the price they originally sold it at

    day 1 = sell 100 shares short of XXX stock @ $ 50 each

    day 30 = buy 100 shares of XXX stock @ $ 40 each

    profit = 100 X $10 = $1000


  • #177
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    roosterman71 wrote: »
    Designed a house last year and got building quotes. Had to call a halt to starting when the pandemic got hold. Looking to get it going again soon now and price to build has gone up 40% in about 14 months. Won't be built now cos can't afford it anymore :(




    I'm in a similar situation but was looking to buy a small house. Not happening now the difference in prices in a year is mental, it'll have to give or were in for a worse time the the last recession


  • #178
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    farawaygrass wrote: »
    A guy was telling me there one day that whoever sells the gold is selling it more than once. So if ten people bought €100 worth of gold and all went to cash it in together there would be problems. That’s the jist, he was better at explaining it.

    sounds like he was talking about derivatives commodity trading ?

    you can own gold in ways other than holding it in ones hand , perhaps its less safe but owning it physically is certainly not without risk either , not sure if want to have 10 k worth of gold in a press in my living room ?


  • #179
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,767 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    duffysfarm wrote: »
    bitcoin is the modern day version of the Tulip mania from the 1600's

    And the south sea bubble of the 1700's.

    When the general public are being advised to invest in the scheme based on record profits. Then I'd be wary.

    Patsy is right though there'll be another bitcoin dreamt up and then another. And ordinary people will be left carrying the can.
    The only way of sustaining it is to keep getting more people wanting to buy.


  • #180
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    Bitcoin and all the other cryptocurrencies are just clever ponzi schemes.
    That's an ill-fitting characterisation at best. So who are the organizers of this ponzi? Where can I find them? If the ponzi was started with the publishing of the bitcoin whitepaper back in October 2008, can you point out where it touted the financial riches that awaits participants? That's generally how a ponzi works, right? Here's a link to the Bitcoin Whitepaper if you'd like to dig that out for us.
    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    Have a look at what the world's greatest investor has to say about it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtITDtZPYEw&t=40s
    Anyone couldn't but have respect for the Oracle of Omaha. However, he's not infallible. He openly admitted that he got it all wrong on tech stocks (Apple, google, facebook, etc). Tech isn't his strong suit. Furthermore, there's a definite demographic trend with regard to who is embracing digital assets and who isn't. Older people can't get their head round the notion of a digital asset or currency. From millennials down, it's second nature - increasingly so as we go down the way. Meanwhile, a whole host of notable people from finance and tech have changed their opinion and now see the value in bitcoin.
    duffysfarm wrote: »
    bitcoin is the modern day version of the Tulip mania from the 1600's
    I know you read that somewhere but it's not true. Cerca 2017 this nonsense used to be rolled out all the time - not so much any more. A couple of questions...
    - How long did tulipmania last?
    - What attributes do tulips have as a store of value or as money? Compare those attributes (you won't find any!) with bitcoins attributes in that regard.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Its essentially just a confidence trick.....its not worth anything though
    That's one hell of a 'confidence trick' what with it being around for 12 years and having a market capitalisation of $1.08 trillion today.
    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    When you buy a share, you buy a share of that company. That company will earn a profit, which you get in the form of a dividend.
    That;s a fair point. However, gold is not revenue-producing....just like bitcoin. If I buy gold, then the only way I can profit from it is if someone pays me more for it, right? Isn't that what you said about bitcoin? What about FX markets? Those have existed for donkey's years. Those who trade in them only turn a profit if number go up and yet its a legitimate marketplace?
    duffysfarm wrote: »
    bitcoin has a finite amount - yes but it was created from nothing. that in itself is an issue
    It takes a shed tonne of energy to mint a bitcoin so it's not created from nothing.


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  • #181
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,259 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    Money is only a measure of how people are feeling it is not a solid value and neither has anything else.land houses,shares bitcoin cattle prices are all the same.theres a story of a farm near us that went for sale and was bought for 22k.it was hotly contested by 3 bidders but the sale fell through and 12 months later it was offered for sale and a different man bought it for 10 k.now it was worth 22k to 3 men a year before and a year later it was only worth 10 k,where did that 12 k go.same with cattle an animal might make 150 euro more in a mart one year compared to another but the same amount of meat is in them every year.money is only a measure of sentiment it is not real


  • #182
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    Say my name wrote: »
    And the south sea bubble of the 1700's.
    So that was one distinct bubble. Have you ever come across a bubble that continually inflates and deflates (albeit that it still maintains an upward price trajectory when you zoom out and look at its complete performance over time)?
    It was designed to go through phases of price discovery. It was known by practically no-one when launched. For that reason, it was available to anyone initially for next to nothing. It's been going through rounds of price discovery and that process will continue for quite a few years to come. When the asset matures, it will be as boring as gold (albeit with digital utility).

    Say my name wrote: »
    Patsy is right though there'll be another bitcoin dreamt up and then another. And ordinary people will be left carrying the can.
    You can have a new facebook tomorrow also. Make a start on that and see how you get on. Whilst I'll acknowledge that nothing ever stays the same, anything that replaces bitcoin will have to be 10x better than it. What is that project?


  • #183
    Green farmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭Green farmer


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »

    Bitcoin and all the other cryptocurrencies are just clever ponzi schemes.

    Have a look at what the world's greatest investor has to say about it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtITDtZPYEw&t=40s

    Pretty much sums it up imo.


  • #184
    duffysfarm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 851 ✭✭✭duffysfarm


    to say that "it takes a shed tonne of energy to mint a bitcoin so it's not created from nothing" - that cant be a positive argument


  • #185
    roosterman71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,717 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    All the crypto talk should go to https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1814 and not be here. Just my 2 BTC worth


  • #186
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    roosterman71 wrote: »
    All the crypto talk should go to https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1814 and not be here. Just my 2 BTC worth

    Ah, I dunno...

    I hear a lot about it, and I dont fully understand it - so its good to get some info.

    I think lads are quick to dismiss it, which is surprising - as farming has to be the biggest gamble... Taking a constantly devaluing item and constantly investing the same, hoping that this year it'll be better :D:(


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  • #187
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    Bitcoin and all the other cryptocurrencies are just clever ponzi schemes. Think about it, the only way you can make a profit on bitcoin is to sell it on to someone else at a higher price. They in turn have to sell it on to someone else. It doesn't create any profit of it's own.
    That by it's nature is a ponzi scheme. People have got caught out with ponzi schemes before and they will again.

    Have a look at what the world's greatest investor has to say about it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtITDtZPYEw&t=40s

    In early 2018 I think it was, I bought €1700 of bitcoin and then did a dumb thing, I went trading as I was influenced by a Discord forum. Needless to say I don't have the €1700 any longer.

    How and ever..... Just for the fun of it, had I kept that €1700 of Bitcoin as Bitcoin, I bought in around the $8,000 mark, then today at $59,000 my €1700 would be worth €12,500. I could have cashed out my €1700 and I would have had €10800 to do whatever with.

    Of course I wasn't schmart enough to hodl but for a Ponzi scheme it's pretty good.

    I'm not getting back in as I have too many long term commitments on the go right now, including doing something I swore I'd never do, borrow for the farm. But, I do believe that Bitcoin will, while having it's ups and downs, go up significantly more over the next few years.


  • #188
    richie123
    Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭richie123


    roosterman71 wrote: »
    All the crypto talk should go to https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1814 and not be here. Just my 2 BTC worth

    I dont think it should because a lot of farmers here wouldn't go to the crypto discussion and discuss it ina farming context.


  • #189
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In early 2018 I think it was, I bought €1700 of bitcoin and then did a dumb thing, I went trading as I was influenced by a Discord forum. Needless to say I don't have the €1700 any longer.

    How and ever..... Just for the fun of it, had I kept that €1700 of Bitcoin as Bitcoin, I bought in around the $8,000 mark, then today at $59,000 my €1700 would be worth €12,500. I could have cashed out my €1700 and I would have had €10800 to do whatever with.

    Of course I wasn't schmart enough to hodl but for a Ponzi scheme it's pretty good.

    I'm not getting back in as I have too many long term commitments on the go right now, including doing something I swore I'd never do, borrow for the farm. But, I do believe that Bitcoin will, while having it's ups and downs, go up significantly more over the next few years.

    Where, or more importantly from whom, would that €10800 have come from? Think about it.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • #190
    grange mac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 881 ✭✭✭grange mac


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    Where, or more importantly from whom, would that €10800 have come from? Think about it.

    Well you can rule out Larry Goodman for a start :)


  • #191
    timple23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭timple23


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    Where, or more importantly from whom, would that €10800 have come from? Think about it.

    I'm curious, where do you think it came from?


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  • #192
    NSAman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭NSAman


    Was just having this same conversation with friends here in the States. Lumber Prices are gone up by 50% here in the States. They are offering MORE money than people paid for trucks bought 2 years ago..... something does not make sense.

    Speaking about Ireland I too have notices that prices are absolutely crazy at the moment. On one of my properties there I am looking to get work done on the windows. Prices have gone up by 20% over the past two years. Now I have the cash saved to change them, I am not changing them until things quieten down.

    There is without DOUBT a massive global crash coming. When the property market "stays" come around the banks are going to find it hard to find customers to repay loans commercial and private debt..... it will have a global knock on effect.

    Prices in our grocery stories here are going up each week. What used to cost me 20 dollars is costing me close to 40 now.... 6 months later.

    Its a waiting game all over the world I personally think.


  • #193
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    Where, or more importantly from whom, would that €10800 have come from? Think about it.

    From idiots who went trading without knowing how to :D Which wouldn't have bothered me at all, nor does it bother me that my €1700 went to someone else.

    To be fair, there is lots of decent advice around Bitcoin, when you go looking. For example, never invest more than you can afford to lose. I followed that bit. The bit I didn't follow was to "hodl" unless you knew what you were at.

    I stand by my prediction that Bitcoin will increase substantially in value in the coming years. I'll also add, like any investment timing is everything, know or be lucky in getting in, and getting out.

    As for "Government" backed money I'm more in agreement with Tolkien.

    - There was meant to be an image attached but it didn't work


  • #194
    farawaygrass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,954 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    It’s awful hard to know what to do isn’t it. I too am trying to get a mortgage and build a house but it’s impossible to try and time the market. There is always doomsayers (no disrespect to anyone) and eventually they’ll be right but when is the thing. If i plan to sit tight for a year who’s to say it won’t be 3 years before a downturn comes and by then I’m older and mortgages applications get trickier.
    It’s scary how everything is gone so dear. Talks of steel going up by 40%. What In the name of god drove that? Same with timber.
    It doesn’t feel like the Celtic tiger where the majority of people were living it up. Maybe there is still a hangover from that and people are smarter, but I don’t think anyone is near as flush now as they thought they were back then.


  • #195
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    duffysfarm wrote: »
    to say that "it takes a shed tonne of energy to mint a bitcoin so it's not created from nothing" - that cant be a positive argument
    Why not? That energy use serves a purpose.


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    Where, or more importantly from whom, would that €10800 have come from? Think about it.

    Lets think about what happened to gold in the 70s. Nixon took the USD off the gold standard in '71. Over the course of the next decade, there was rampant inflation. At the same time, gold was as volatile as bitcoin with an upward trajectory. It rose from $250 in '71 to $2,250 by the end of that decade.

    Move on a few decades and we're now in a digital age where its the time for digital money - against a backdrop of 'can't print this monopoly money fast enough' monetary policy.

    The story that's unwinding right now is as much about the madness of monetary policy relative to sovereign money as it is about the qualities of bitcoin as a store of value or money.

    Think about that.


  • #196
    irishpride12
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭irishpride12


    I asked a friend of mine what does he reckon would be good to invest in, (mid 40s kids nice house sexy wife, good businessman ) he said don't get to stressed about it all and lash it up the nose and down the hatch twill all be grand,,, hmmðŸ‘႒🀔ðŸ™႒


  • #197
    Car99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    irishpride12 wrote: »
    I asked a friend of mine what does he reckon would be good to invest in, (mid 40s kids nice house sexy wife, good businessman ) he said don't get to stressed about it all and lash it up the nose and down the hatch twill all be grand,,, hmmðŸ‘႒🀔ðŸ™႒

    So hes suggesting drug dealing is the future ?


  • #198
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    irishpride12 wrote: »
    I asked a friend of mine what does he reckon would be good to invest in, (mid 40s kids nice house sexy wife, good businessman ) he said don't get to stressed about it all and lash it up the nose and down the hatch twill all be grand,,, hmmðŸ‘႒��ðŸ™႒
    Mid 40s sexy wife, well done there


  • #199
    Reggie.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,480 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Mid 40s sexy wife, well done there

    Big wallet sure


  • #200
    Pussyhands
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    A lot of the prices rising would be down to brexit and covid with supply chains effected etc.

    BUT the problem will be when those are cleared, will prices return? I don't think so because people are more than happy to pay the massive prices.


  • #201
    carrollsno1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭carrollsno1


    See a post from tbe FJ on Facebook where hydraulic oil, grease and the like have gone up 20%.

    Better living everyone



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