Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

specialbyte · 07-04-2023 1:30am

In EIAR report appendix A5.5 Glasnevin Construction Report you can see the planned 21 stages of construction they need to do to build the Glasnevin station including lowering of the IE tracks, micro-bore tunnels and then mining out underneath the railway for the MetroLink station. The report is interesting but there are full sequence diagrams at the very end of the document: https://downloads.metrolink.ie/documentsro/A5.5%20Glasnevin%20Construction%20Report.pdf

There is another set of top-down visuals on the construction of Glasnevin station on pages 100-113 of report A5.3 Construction Sequencing Report: https://downloads.metrolink.ie/documentsro/A5.3%20Construction%20Sequence%20Report.pdf

strassenwo!f · 07-04-2023 5:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120449004#Comment_120449004

I gather from this that some approximation of my name was mentioned on that thread, which is not one I urgently follow, and didn't see it. I would have been informed by boards.ie if I had been named correctly.

There is no surprise that it may have been spelt incorrectly. The poster named is worryingly slipshod.

AndrewJRenko · 07-04-2023 6:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447118#Comment_120447118

Or maybe deliver them in the medium of an interactive Beckett play, with two oul lads reciting the documents to each other, and no one quite sure why they are there or what they are doing?

Bsharp · 07-04-2023 7:49am

My understanding is Metrolink Construction Stage EIAR has given the worst case scenario for disruption to the heavy rail lines.

This gives a D&B contractor the greatest level of scope to deliver Works within an impact/disruption envelope rather than boxing them in too early.

That said, lack of co-ordination and lack of senior staff in either organisation having sufficient construction stage knowledge is a huge risk. We've built nothing to develop institutional expertise recently.

Be interesting to see how co-ordination goes near Northwood, Ballymun Station with BusConnects, Eirgrid and Metrolink all planning infrastructure along the corridor.

CatInABox · 12-04-2023 9:58am

First news that we've had about the replacement for the Markievicz sports centre, and it seems the council are planning to expand their Irishtown facilities instead of building something local.

Not ideal in my eyes, but still think they it's a small price to pay for a Tara Street interchange station.

https://twitter.com/DublinInquirer/status/1646065617227730945

jumpinsheep · 22-04-2023 4:25pm

KLM Utilities have been contracted by #TII to carry out 125 slit trenches along the #MetroLink alignment.

Update from Metrolink's Twitter account; no mention of this in their website, News section. No details regarding how long this will take. 🤷‍♂️

https://twitter.com/MetroLink_ie/status/1644236749101580290?cxt=HHwWhIC-zZOnwNEtAAAA

Found a couple of tweets from Fingal County Council Twitter account, regarding roads affected; this is the most recent:

https://twitter.com/Fingalcoco/status/1649340693544939520?cxt=HHwWgMC9hemn0eMtAAAA

Pete_Cavan · 23-04-2023 11:45am

Good that they are progressing with detail design work while waiting for planning approval

Pete_Cavan · 03-05-2023 12:49pm

Tender issued for PPP Process Auditor;

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/240896/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

The scope for M500 PPP Contract was given in the Market Update: December 2022;

iv) Expected scope of supply and works within the M500 PPP Contract

The Information Document issued in May 2022 as part of the M500 PPP Contract market consultation sets out the expected scope of the proposed M500 PPP Contract (section 2.2.1). This currently covers (with additional clarification added):

the delivery of line-wide railway systems, including all track construction and overhead lines and associated infrastructure;

the design, manufacture, supply and maintenance of a GoA4 metro system, providing fully automated operation and comprising an integrated command, control, signalling and communication systems and an entirely new dedicated vehicle fleet;

the development of a storage and maintenance depot at Dardistown and an operations control building, with a back-up facility at Estuary Station;

the design, manufacture, supply and maintenance of MEP services that are to be installed (by the PPP Service Delivery Partner) throughout the metro alignment including in the bored tunnels;

the design and delivery of the station fit out works and of the station MEP systems (at all stations) within the station ‘shell and core’ structure that has been designed and built under the M400 Contracts;

the design and construction of the 3,000 capacity park-and-ride facility at the northern terminus at Estuary Station;

the operation and life-cycle maintenance of the metro system and all civil engineering structures (including as constructed under the M400 Contracts) for a service period of at least 25 years; and

performance of the Systems Integration Manager role outlined above.

They certainly seem to be progressing with things while waiting for planning approval, good to see.

Consonata · 09-05-2023 8:05pm

It's been strangely quiet on ML lately, what has the delay been relating to?

CatInABox · 09-05-2023 8:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120576169#Comment_120576169

It's in with ABP, which we've got no insight into. They have their own process to follow, but it only went in back in September or so, so there's probably another year to go or so, and that's if there's no delays

jumpinsheep · 10-05-2023 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120576183#Comment_120576183

I think budget/funds needs to be as well approved by Government - they have other 2 approval gates (out of 3, first is already done) to go through

icdg · 17-05-2023 5:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447544#Comment_120447544

It’s not really helpful that they are using the phrases MGWR and GSWR. Those companies ceased to exist 97 years ago. Nobody except rail history enthusiasts knows what they are. Even TII on their website seem totally unclear exactly what present-day rail services are impacted.

CatInABox · 19-05-2023 7:18am

Saw on another site that ABP has this down to be decided by 22/05/23. That'd be nice, but I'm pretty sure that's just the standard date that they put up on these things, and this will be delayed. Don't think that they've even had any oral hearings on this yet, something that I'm pretty sure will have to happen.

tom1ie · 19-05-2023 8:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615094#Comment_120615094

If ABP give metro link permission to build, are there any more chances for people to object?

Judicial review or something?

CatInABox · 19-05-2023 8:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615151#Comment_120615151

Yes, it can go to JR.

L1011 · 19-05-2023 8:48am

And it almost inevitably will, due to there being various well heeled places with vexatious arguments

brianc89 · 19-05-2023 9:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608969#Comment_120608969

I always think of it this way:

MGWR - the Royal Canal railway line follows the Royal Canal all the way to MullinGar

GSWR - Goes South, through the tunnel, to Heuston. This is the Drumcondra line, which was built later than the Royal Canal line.

Don't get confused by the fact the Drumcondra line is now used to get to Mullingar 😂🤔

tom1ie · 19-05-2023 9:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615203#Comment_120615203

Feck.

Do we have a timeframe on how long that takes?

Also if JR agrees with the objections what happens then? Back to design!?

brianc89 · 19-05-2023 10:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615454#Comment_120615454

You would hope the new planning court will be better quipped to swiftly deal with a JR. Metro might be the reason the government have finally moved on setting up the court. Trust Eamon.

CatInABox · 19-05-2023 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615454#Comment_120615454

Anywhere from 6 months to 18 months, I'd say. Almost certainly on the longer side, I'd guess. Looking at the only other major infrastructure proposal to be approval in the last few years, it got approval from ABP in December 2021, JRs were lodged in February 2022, with the eventual decision being made in January 2023. That was an open and shut case as well, with ABP conceding before it ever got to court, so that'll give you a benchmark on how long a case would take just to get started if ABP/TII chooses to fight.

As to what can happen, the court could really decide anything. The case above, they found that ABP had made a procedural error, so sent it back to ABP to reconsider the entire application. They could find that the entire premise is at fault, and send it right back to the start of the design. Spoiler alert though, they won't. TII/NTA seem to be taking a belt and braces approach to this, multiple non-statutory consultations, in-depth designs, everything that they're doing seems designed to increase the legal backing on this. ABP are probably the weakest link in the planning train right now, but I'd doubt that they'd make the same mistake as they did in the M6RR debacle.

tom1ie · 19-05-2023 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615536#Comment_120615536

Jaysus- trust Eamon? 😬

tom1ie · 19-05-2023 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615539#Comment_120615539

Great info thanks.

One more question, is there a time limit from when ABP give permission to when a JR can be initiated?

CatInABox · 19-05-2023 12:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615721#Comment_120615721

3 months, but you can apply outside of that/for an extension, if you have a good enough reason. I'm no lawyer, but it'd be hard to see what a good enough reason would be in this case. All the consultations and media attention will mean that "I wasn't informed about X happening" won't be enough.

Thelonious Monk · 19-05-2023 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615711#Comment_120615711

To be fair I'd trust him to get things done relating to public transport over any other Minister for Transport we've had in my adult life. A ridiculously low bar of course.

tom1ie · 19-05-2023 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120616121#Comment_120616121

Well I suppose it’s off topic so I’ll leave it at that!!

L1011 · 19-05-2023 2:49pm

Varadkar was a reasonable minister, albeit we never saw what he'd do with proper money available

specialbyte · 19-05-2023 3:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120616772#Comment_120616772

I disagree. While he sent Luas Cross City to construction he "deferred" Metro North and DART Underground. We definitely didn't have the 5B euro to build both projects. However, the way he went about it wasn't a deferral, he effectively cancelled them. He didn't look to extend the planning approvals for either project in the hope that money would one day be available.

He also suspended indefinitely the MetroWest project. It was at an oral hearing stage with ABP. He pulled the plug. He stated again because there was no money available, but he also didn't want it to be approved either as it affected some of his constituents so it was a handy excuse.

Varadkar's actions are why we are in planning hell right now for Dublin public transport projects. We had to start all of the planning work from scratch in 2015-2018. There was no shovel ready project for when the financing options returned. The same did not happen with roads projects across the country. For example, Dunkette interchange started planning in 2011 while he was Minister for Transport and there was no money to build it. It started construction last year.

Infrastructure projects take time. While Varadkar had no money to build, it sure looks like he did his best to kill of the pipeline of public transport infrastructure projects. Given the near decade it takes to develop these projects it's not too surprising we're still seeing the impact of his decisions today.

If he had maintained the pipeline of projects it's likely we'd be many years into construction of the old Metro North plan rather than still waiting for planning approval for MetroLink. On paper I personally prefer the MetroLink plan, in particular because of Cross Guns interchange station. However, I'd prefer an actual under construction metro rather than a better plan on paper.

L1011 · 19-05-2023 3:43pm

I'd be fairly certain the DPER and probably the ECB et al pulled many of the strings on those cancellations. Planning still cost money.

gjim · 19-05-2023 4:39pm

Both metrowest and metronorth were very flawed projects ‘though. I don’t even know why MW had “metro” in its name - it was a tram system - requiring huge capital investment to send trams through very low average density outer suburbs along a meandering route - a daft prioritization of PT spending given the massive bottlenecks in and around the actual center of the city. And MN was a technical throwback - basically stick Luas in a tunnel with similar frequencies and using very long sets to carry more passengers - instead of using higher frequencies possible with modern systems like ML. And neither pan offered any kind of integration - reflecting the RPA’s hatred/rivalry for IE and Dublin Bus.

jumpinsheep · 22-05-2023 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615094#Comment_120615094

No Oral Hearing scheduled at the moment, just looked in the ABP website: https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/lists/cases?list=H&year=2021

The URL there shows "year=2021" but the page shows the weekly list for 2023 anyway.

The ML case 314724 still shows 22/05/2023 as decision date, hopefully they'll update it: https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/314724

Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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