Statutory Regulation of Counselling & Psychotherapy (Mod note in OP)

JuliusCaesar · 22-07-2016 9:23am #1

Minister for Health, Simon Harris in the Dail 8th June 2016:

The regulation of the 14 professions currently designated under the Health and Social Care Professionals Act 2005 is being implemented on a phased basis as the registration board and register for each profession is established. Currently, nine of the 14 designated professions have registration boards and registers have been established for seven of them.

Psychotherapists and counsellors are not currently regulated under the Health and Social Care Professionals Act 2005. However, the Act provides that the Minister for Health may, by regulation, designate a health and social care profession not already designated if he or she considers that it is appropriate and in the public interest to do so and if specified criteria have been met.

Grandfathering of existing practitioners with minimum qualifications to be specified by regulation is provided for under the Act.

In accordance with the Act, the Health and Social Care Professionals Council has been consulted on the question of regulating counsellors and psychotherapists. Its detailed report on the matter is being examined carefully in the Department of Health with a view to deciding the next steps in the coming months. These steps will, I envisage, include a wider round of consultation involving the various professional bodies and other interested parties.

The regulation of a new profession under the Act involves a consultation process and the making of a number of statutory instruments by the Minister for Health and by the relevant registration board. I envisage that, subject to the outcome of consultations, the statutory phase to regulate counsellors and psychotherapists under the Act will begin later this year or early next year with the submission of draft designation regulations to the Houses of the Oireachtas for their approval. Thereafter, I expect that the registration board should be constituted and operating during 2017. By the end of 2018, or early 2019, the board should be in a position to make the various bye-laws to allow it to accept applications for registration. In parallel, the regulations to protect titles and to prescribe the qualifications to be required of existing practitioners would be drafted and enacted.

While the profession or professions of counsellor and psychotherapist are not specifically designated under the 2005 Act, counsellors and psychotherapists are subject to legislation similar to other practitioners including consumer legislation, competition, contract and criminal law. There are also various regulatory controls on many counsellors and psychotherapists operating in Ireland.

The profession of psychologist, for example, is a designated profession under the 2005 Act which means that those psychologists who are counsellors and/or psychotherapists will begin to be regulated when the Psychologists Registration Board, which is due to be established later this year, opens its register.

Psychiatrists, some of whom practice psychotherapy, are regulated under the Medical Practitioners Act 2007. Also, counsellors/therapists working in the publicly funded health sector are required to have minimum qualifications set by the Health Service Executive under the Health Act 2004.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/dail2016060800074#N44

Mod - This thread is for discussion of forthcoming regulation, not for sourcing a personal therapist.

dar100 · 31-08-2016 4:21pm

http://health.gov.ie/blog/publications/proposed-regulation-of-counsellors-and-psychotherapist-under-the-health-and-social-care-professionals-act-2005/

superglue · 01-09-2016 11:19pm

Fingers crossed

The Black Oil · 19-12-2016 11:01pm

What'll happen next year, a report based on all of the submissions with recommendations?

The Black Oil · 04-05-2017 11:03am

Counsellors and Psychotherapists Registration – The Minister advised that his Department will be issuing a report on the consultation that took place at the end of 2016 in the next few months. It is intended to list Counsellors and Psychotherapists under the Health and Social Care Professionals Act, to be regulated by CORU. He acknowledged the challenge that will bring, in light of the issues that have arisen where efforts have been put into regulating the professions internationally. However with a major concern for patient safety, this will be progressing. It has been agreed to only progress this work, when the social care workers register has been progressed and the psychologists register is open, as it was acknowledged that there would be much learning that could help the establishment of these registers.

Source

dar100 · 04-05-2017 12:54pm

The Black Oil wrote: »

What'll happen next year, a report based on all of the submissions with recommendations?

Good call ðŸ˜Š

JuliusCaesar · 04-05-2017 5:37pm

Hmmm, I remain sceptical!

The Black Oil · 29-05-2017 8:12pm

They're pushing ahead at some level.

80 submissions received.

Decision of Minister Simon Harris in relation to the regulation of counsellors and psychotherapists under the Health and Social Care professionals Act 2005

JuliusCaesar · 02-06-2017 7:21pm

You couldn't make this up.

The Anti-Choice Pregnancy "Counselling" Centre wants statutory regulation of counsellors/psychotherapists HALTED.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/were-upholding-law-say-pregnancy-counsellors-qvb7cjqmg?shareToken=4e83c2c59fea6a9644645f12a073e5ce

A crisis pregnancy agency exposed by The Times has written to the government demanding that it halt plans to regulate counsellors and claiming that women who have abortions are more likely to sexually abuse other family members.

WTF?!

dar100 · 02-06-2017 7:28pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

You couldn't make this up.

The Anti-Choice Pregnancy "Counselling" Centre wants statutory regulation of counsellors/psychotherapists HALTED.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/were-upholding-law-say-pregnancy-counsellors-qvb7cjqmg?shareToken=4e83c2c59fea6a9644645f12a073e5ce

WTF?!

Who finds them? What's the agenda? Religious I suspect?

JuliusCaesar · 03-06-2017 6:22am

From Ask Majella website:

Ask Majella was established in 2002 and has since expanded to provide pregnancy counselling and support throughout Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Our service is provided by healthcare professionals and trained helpline volunteers.

We recommend and offer you a free ultrasound scan for an accurate assessment of pregnancy and help towards making a fully informed decision. As we are a Catholic support service we provide this service in accordance with the principles that we believe the best and truly positive option is one where there is no loss of or detriment to life.

No detail as to their counsellors, their qualifications, or affiliations.

From Human Life International's website:

for more information and how to order Patrick McCrystal's book: Who's at the centre of your marriage, The Pill or Jesus Christ?

Just for info: emergency contraception (the morning-after pill) is NOT an abortifacient, they generally prevent implantation.

Jimmy Bottlehead · 03-06-2017 2:17pm

Horrific. Let's hope the government ignore this crowd of loonies who spread lies and fear.

The Black Oil · 04-06-2017 2:29pm

Human Life International made a submission to the calls for comment on regulation, alleging a link between abortion and breast cancer. Initially, I thought it was a rant/complaint to the BAI.

Is this true?

Traditionally psychology, and psychiatry even, have been seen by many commentators as ‘soft sciences’. It is of significance that in the Republic of Ireland one may not become a psychiatrist unless one has already been awarded a medical degree. In the U.S., in several States at least, one doesn’t need a medical degree in order to become a psychiatrist.

There's also a bit afterwards about butter and margarine.

JuliusCaesar · 04-06-2017 9:00pm

:rolleyes: I think almost anywhere in the world, psychiatrists are qualified medical doctors, who specialise in psychiatry.

Strange they give no details of their counsellors or their qualifications. As we know, it isn't a protected title, and ANYONE can call themselves a counsellor - with or without any qualifications or accreditation with a reputable professional body.

Professor Moriarty · 08-06-2017 10:06am

The Black Oil wrote: »

Human Life International made a submission to the calls for comment on regulation, alleging a link between abortion and breast cancer. Initially, I thought it was a rant/complaint to the BAI.

Is this true?

There's also a bit afterwards about butter and margarine.

That is not true. You must be a qualified doctor before becoming a psychiatrist in the USA (and Ireland).

JuliusCaesar · 08-06-2017 4:13pm

I expect that they are so little qualified that they don't know the difference between psychiatrists, psychologists, and psychotherapists.

dar100 · 08-06-2017 7:30pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I expect that they are so little qualified that they don't know the difference between psychiatrists, psychologists, and psychotherapists.

Medicate, measure, heal

Professor Moriarty · 08-06-2017 8:00pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I expect that they are so little qualified that they don't know the difference between psychiatrists, psychologists, and psychotherapists.

More missionary zeal than psychologial support.

dar100 · 14-06-2017 6:56pm

Thought I would post this here seems as we already touched on this area instead of starting a new thread!!

Not my words, (taken from wellbeing foundation) it's about that young girl held under the mental health act that was seeking to have an abortion

There are pointers which indicate that the 'psychiatrist' who first saw this young woman is a protegée of Professor Dr Patricia Casey, professor of psychiatry at UCD, chief shrink at the Mater Hospital, SPUC supporter, and patron/supporter of the extreme right-wing Catholiban entity, the Iona Institute.

It is absolutely appalling that an extremist like Casey or any of her supporters could be able to MISUSE the Mental Health Act to further their own religion-driven agenda in relation to women's rights and deny any woman her *entitlement* under Irish law to a termination if she is danger of suicide.

Petition here if anyone is interested
https://my.uplift.ie/petitions/locking-women-up-because-they-want-an-abortion-is-barbaric?source=facebook-share-button&time=1497430232

Valmont · 17-06-2017 7:39pm

dar100 wrote: »

It is absolutely appalling that an extremist like Casey or any of her supporters could be able to MISUSE the Mental Health Act to further their own religion-driven agenda in relation to women's rights and deny any woman her *entitlement* under Irish law to a termination if she is danger of suicide.

Dare I say if you think this you misunderstand the social function of civil commitment. People are sent to psychiatric hospitals against their will when they violate social mores (walk around your town in the nip for a while if you don't believe me). In this case this unfortunate young woman ran afoul of our society's antipathy towards abortion. This is a perfect example of the mental health act doing exactly what it was designed to do.

Valmont · 17-06-2017 7:43pm

What's the point in regulating these professions? Let's say there is a dodgy counsellor who can no longer practice as a result of this legislation, he's just going to call himself a life coach or personal motivation assistant instead.

dar100 · 17-06-2017 7:58pm

Valmont wrote: »

Dare I say if you think this you misunderstand the social function of civil commitment. People are sent to psychiatric hospitals against their will when they violate social mores (walk around your town in the nip for a while if you don't believe me). In this case this unfortunate young woman ran afoul of our society's antipathy towards abortion. This is a perfect example of the mental health act doing exactly what it was designed to do.

Hardly the same "breaking of social norms"

Hoochiemama · 27-02-2018 11:49am

Hi

Im just curious about what peoples opinions are on upcoming regulation in counselling and psychotherapy and what they think the criteria will be? Im in my 4th year of an IAHIP recognised course and am wondering am I going to have to go and do a 2 years masters now? Which makes me want to weep a little bit as I dont have the funds and had planned for just doing these 4 years.

Black Swan · 03-03-2018 8:00am

See Ronny Swain, Regulation of the psychology profession in Ireland: context, history and personal reflections, The Irish Journal of Psychology, Volume 35, April 2014, Issue 1, pp. 7-15.

SuperRabbit · 03-03-2018 3:00pm

Wait, is this actually going to happen then? I thought they'd been talking about it for years and it wasn't clear if it would? Is your BA not enough to allow you to practice as a counsellor? I thought BAs would be counsellors and MAs would be psychotherapists?

I don't understand why they'd exclude BAs, when study after study has shown that even placebo therapy (where you are just listened to attentively and no methodology is employed) is massively helpful, and usually as effective as real therapy, and when we are dealing with a situation where thousands of people who need therapy can't afford it.

I read a PCI blog post outlying what the new BAs / Bsc's would need to look like but now I can't find it

I assume that, being businesses, the private colleges will make add-on courses to make the old BAs equal to the new BAs, surely? And these should work out cheaper than getting an MA, which is something we'd rather get after working in counselling for a few years and saving up, and not before.

Anyway, where there is a will there is a way. In the past I let people convince me that things were impossible, and then afterwards I saw people in the same situation as me had persisted and had gotten what I wanted and had given up on! No one can take those 4 years away from you or pretend like they weren't worthwhile, there will be some door that will get you the title. Maybe they'll invent a new term for people stuck in limbo in the meantime. "Distress Consultant" or something!

The Black Oil · 20-03-2018 3:40pm

Mod - I've merged a few threads on this subject for background info and I imagine it'll be an ongoing discussion once developments start to emerge.

SuperRabbit · 29-03-2018 5:56pm

It used to be you only needed a diploma for accreditation, apparently, for accreditation the bodies now want a Level 8 degree for that, so private universities are offering upgrade programmes for professional counsellors who previously only had diplomas. I'm sure if it's necessary they'll do the exact same for those of us with Level 8s in the future, should that no longer be enough.

Jimmy Bottlehead · 05-04-2018 12:17pm

Personally, I'm in favour of higher standards of regulation. It's not that I equate higher levels of education with higher levels of efficacy, but at least there is a greater theoretical basis there along with the dedication of time and resources over several years to the profession. It stops it being a case of one year diploma and you're accredited.

SuperRabbit · 05-04-2018 7:57pm

I'll be in favour of asking more college of counsellors when someone shows me evidence that more years of college translate into better results for clients (not a rhetorical question).

05-04-2018 8:52pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

I'll be in favour of asking more college of counsellors when someone shows me evidence that more years of college translate into better results for clients (not a rhetorical question).

It can but of course as with everything in the therapy field it's not black and white. Depending on the course provider having a comprehensive training to Masters level can greatly help working as a psychotherapist or counsellor. There is value to be had in the theoretical approaches. For example a good knowledge of object relations theory can help inform the work.
Then there is the personal work such a process groups and own therapy which takes time to settle in to. Personally I wouldn't attend a psychotherapist who wasn't very well qualified.

The Black Oil · 12-04-2018 6:16pm

Yeah, I'd have a hard time attending a therapist with lightweight qualifications. Frankly, without some evidence of specialisation I can't take them all that seriously. There's the odd junk diploma out there, I'm a little surprised people bother putting them on their Linkedin, but perhaps I shouldn't be because of box ticking and visibility.

SuperRabbit · 15-04-2018 5:22pm

I'm sure you're not alone in feeling like that, but I don't think it's so black and white, is it?

"But the most rigorous of recent outcome studies indicate that, at the end of the day, it is the quality of the therapist-patient relationship that is the primary curative factor in psychotherapy."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/suffer-the-children/201201/is-psychotherapy-placebo

20-04-2018 12:11pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

I'm sure you're not alone in feeling like that, but I don't think it's so black and white, is it?

"But the most rigorous of recent outcome studies indicate that, at the end of the day, it is the quality of the therapist-patient relationship that is the primary curative factor in psychotherapy."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/suffer-the-children/201201/is-psychotherapy-placebo

At the core of the therapeutic work is the relationship. This I wholeheartedly believe. However attending a psychotherapist isn't the same as having a trusted friend listen to you. There needs to be a formal foundation, a framework in place. How will you manage a client who presents with schizoid-affective disorder for example if all you have at your disposal is empathy and understanding? Or deal with the nuances that arise from transference and counter-transference? Then there is the therapists own process. A training course must be rigorous in preparing people to handle the dark and upsetting nature of others experiences. So it's vital that therapists are self-aware and know their own issues before trying to support a client.

SuperRabbit · 23-04-2018 6:36pm

How will you manage a client who presents with schizoid-affective disorder for example if all you have at your disposal is empathy and understanding?

Referal! Ha ha, I'm being facetious.

No no, you are right, of course you are right. It's a really important responsibility and why not try to have every tool available to you.

24-04-2018 11:20am

SuperRabbit wrote: »

How will you manage a client who presents with schizoid-affective disorder for example if all you have at your disposal is empathy and understanding?

Referal! Ha ha, I'm being facetious.

No no, you are right, of course you are right. It's a really important responsibility and why not try to have every tool available to you.

Well it is perfectly reasonable to refer on a client if you feel they would be better suited to a different therapist or type of treatment. The frequency of that happening should be fairly low because It's not the best attitude to begin your career with "I'll refer on the complex cases". Like you say it's best to have every tool available to you.

Vela · 08-05-2018 1:23pm

From my experience, I feel very strongly that people qualified in counseling or psychotherapy only - with no psychology background - need to be very aware of their limitations in dealing with mental health illnesses, such as bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, PTSD, and that kind of thing. I have no problem with people who pursue this field as long as they can truly assess how helpful they can be to someone presenting with these kinds of issues. The effects that a well-intentioned but under-qualified counselor can have on someone suffering a more extensive mental health issue can be catastrophic and extremely traumatising. I personally started a Psychology conversion dip a few years ago with the aim of eventually going for couns. psych in Trinity, but the financial side of things and time commitment ( at least 7 years) was too great. I was advised to try to counseling BA and I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I wanted to come out of my study knowing that I was fully equipped to deal with any patient that presented to me, and for that I felt I needed a psych degree and most certainly a couns. psych MA or doctorate.

SuperRabbit · 09-05-2018 7:54pm

Vela wrote: »

psychology BA good, counselling BA bad .

But you only do like one module in psychopathology in a psych undergraduate. Why do you think that would make you more qualified? One single module on psychopathology and a lot of modules about things like learning and memory and data analysis and hunger and reaction time and how mice run through mazes and what happens when you tickle rats or deprive them of sleep.

Did you try reading university textbooks on psychology and watch some free lectures online, you seem to think it is something it is not. Psychology is a massive, broad subject. A lot of it is about the brain, not the mind, not cognition, not emotion, not individual differences, though these are parts of it. You also study pharmacology, memory, intelligence testing, perception (not what it sounds like), language etc. etc. Things that actually relate to counselling are very small parts of it, it is very very zoomed out.

Anyway who am I to tell you anything, I didn't finish my psych course because it was so far away from anything I actually wanted to do, despite being fascinating. A psych conversion course with DBS isn't that expensive, and is 2 years, it's a DIP that gets people into certain masters, but not a proper conversion course. And there is a €4000 a year a part time 4 year psych undergraduate with NUI, affordable because you can work and study at the same time.

Or you could go back to the other one, 7 years isn't a long time in a field where there is a bias against young people anyway

Vela · 09-05-2018 8:12pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

But you only do like one module in psychopathology in a psych undergraduate. Why do you think that would make you more qualified? One single module on psychopathology and a lot of modules about things like learning and memory and data analysis and hunger and reaction time and how mice run through mazes and what happens when you tickle rats or deprive them of sleep.

Did you try reading university textbooks on psychology and watch some free lectures online, you seem to think it is something it is not. Psychology is a massive, broad subject. A lot of it is about the brain, not the mind, not cognition, not emotion, not individual differences, though these are parts of it. You also study pharmacology, memory, intelligence testing, perception (not what it sounds like), language etc. etc. Things that actually relate to counselling are very small parts of it, it is very very zoomed out.

Anyway who am I to tell you anything, I didn't finish my psych course because it was so far away from anything I actually wanted to do, despite being fascinating. A psych conversion course with DBS isn't that expensive, and is 2 years, it's a DIP that gets people into certain masters, but not a proper conversion course. And there is a €4000 a year a part time 4 year psych undergraduate with NUI, affordable because you can work and study at the same time.

Or you could go back to the other one, 7 years isn't a long time in a field where there is a bias against young people anyway

Did you just quote something I didn't say?

I do know what's involved in Psychology. FYI the one in DBS is part-time and is the equivalent of the fulltime BA. But I wasn't talking about doing a psych BA and then becoming a therapist (eh, no). My reference to cost was to the route I wanted to take, which would have been 2 years in DBS, an MA, and then a 3 year Counseling Psych Doctorate in Trinity at 13k a year. My point was that I believe psychology is essential for anyone who wants to work in any area re: counseling or psychotherapy. I think they should always have a psychology BA at the minimum before studying either of those. Counseling Psychology itself offers the best of both worlds at an even higher level.

SuperRabbit · 09-05-2018 8:17pm

Vela wrote: »

Did you just quote something I didn't say?

I do know what's involved in Psychology. My reference to cost was to the route I wanted to take, which would have been 2 years in DBS, an MA, and then a 3 year Couns. Doctorate in Trinity at 13k a year. My point was that I believe psychology is essential for anyone who wants to work in any area re: counseling or psychotherapy. I think they should always have a psychology BA at the minimum before studying either of those. Counseling Psychology itself offers the best of both worlds at an even higher level.

I summarised, I didn't mean to misquote, it was either that or remove everything, I should have just removed everything, sorry.

Anyway, I really don't see how it's relevant. I mean maybe they could do a short course in just the modules that are even vaguely related to counselling, I'd buy that! Happily! But a full BA in psychology? A waste of time, money, and resources.. Well learning is never a waste, learning is fascinating and enriching, but you'd be as well off studying French! I mean why do I need to know what lobes of the brain are responsible for, say, processing visual stimuli, or what neurotransmitters are responsible for hunger, so that I can help someone with PTSD!?

Vela · 09-05-2018 8:20pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

I summarised, I didn't mean to misquote, it was either that or remove everything, I should have just removed everything, sorry.

Anyway, I really don't see how it's relevant. I mean maybe they could do a short course in just the modules that are even vaguely related to counselling, I'd buy that! Happily! But a full BA in psychology? A waste of time, money, and resources.. Well learning is never a waste, learning is fascinating and enriching, but you'd be as well off studying French! I mean why do I need to know what lobes of the brain are responsible for, say, processing visual stimuli, or what neurotransmitters are responsible for hunger, so that I can help someone with PTSD!?

I think we have a very different idea of what an experienced and capable therapist is.

SuperRabbit · 09-05-2018 8:31pm

Vela wrote: »

I think we have a very different idea of what an experienced and capable therapist is.

I'd like to see a therapist who finds an application for the experience of drawing Mendelian diagrams in their biological psychology test :rolleyes:

I guess we can't agree, but I think it's really sad this has stopped you from finding a back door into something you really want to do.... but you know what, it shouldn't!

The part time BA with NUI in psych costs the same as the BA in counselling.. and DBS is affordable.. Like I said in my other post, I don't think 7 years is a long time in a field where people are biased against young people. 7 years will absolutely fly by. in 7 years you'll be thinking "feck.. that went really fast.. I could be a therapist by now"

The money is a nightmare, but that might just mean you have to take 14 years.. I wouldn't let that stop me. I really want to be a CBT therapist eventually and it seems like that is going to take forever and all the money. alll of it... but that you get back after

Vela · 09-05-2018 8:41pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

I'd like to see a therapist who finds an application for the experience of drawing Mendelian diagrams in their biological psychology test :rolleyes:

I guess we can't agree, but I think it's really sad this has stopped you from finding a back door into something you really want to do.... but you know what, it shouldn't!

The part time BA with NUI in psych costs the same as the BA in counselling.. and DBS is affordable.. Like I said in my other post, I don't think 7 years is a long time in a field where people are biased against young people. 7 years will absolutely fly by. in 7 years you'll be thinking "feck.. that went really fast.. I could be a therapist by now"

The money is a nightmare, but that might just mean you have to take 14 years.. I wouldn't let that stop me. I really want to be a CBT therapist eventually and it seems like that is going to take forever and all the money. alll of it... but that you get back after

Ah no, I decided it wasn't for me as I love what I do right now.

But I wouldn't take a "back door" into a career like this. No way. You have a responsibility to your future patients. A psychology BA gives any therapist a good grounding into basic psychological theory which I think is essential. And until better regulation comes in, I wouldn't trust any therapist who didn't at least have a psych BA behind their couns/psychotherapist Masters. Or, preferably, have a doctorate in couns. psych.

I'm actually speaking from experience from a previous patient standpoint also. I experienced 3 therapists who were qualified on paper as "counselors" or "therapists" but definitely did not have appropriate training to treat someone with serious issues beyond interpersonal relationship problems/stress etc. And that can really have a negative effect on the patient's recovery, never mind be extremely retraumatising.

Good luck with the CBT thing though, I think it's great you're going for it, I just think people who do these courses need to be mindful of their limitations in what they are and aren't qualified to do.

SuperRabbit · 09-05-2018 8:56pm

Vela wrote: »

Ah no, I decided it wasn't for me as I love what I do right now.

But I wouldn't take a "back door" into a career like this. No way. You have a responsibility to your future patients. A psychology BA gives any therapist a good grounding into basic psychological theory which I think is essential. And until better regulation comes in, I wouldn't trust any therapist who didn't at least have a psych BA behind their couns/psychotherapist Masters. Or, preferably, have a doctorate in couns. psych.

I'm actually speaking from experience from a previous patient standpoint also. I experienced 3 therapists who were qualified on paper as "counselors" or "therapists" but definitely did not have appropriate training to treat someone with serious issues beyond interpersonal relationship problems/stress etc. And that can really have a negative effect on the patient's recovery, never mind be extremely retraumatising.

Good luck with the CBT thing though, I think it's great you're going for it, I just think people who do these courses need to be mindful of their limitations in what they are and aren't qualified to do.

To me "back door" means anything that isn't through the CAO. It doesn't mean you would be less qualified. I'm glad you love your job

I hate mine!

I do think therapists need to be very honest about their training and methodology. A lot of people, for example, don't tell you or explain to you that they are psychoanalysts and what that means. If someone has, for example, OCD, a psychoanalyst with a BA in psychology and an MA in counselling is still absolutely the wrong person for them. There are psychoanalysts that swear blind they can treat OCD, but that's not what the studies say. People naturally assume that all therapists, counsellors and *shudder* life coaches are equally trained and qualified in the way that you'd expect every GP to be.

Like I said above, if I can't help someone I can refer them. Most people do come with stress and depression, most people improve just by talking to someone. I'm never going to pretend to be an expert but I'm going to study like crazy and be really fecking careful. I don't think anyone is an expert, maybe that's something that came out of the data analysis classes.

SuperRabbit · 09-05-2018 8:59pm

And I'm so sorry you had a bad experience

Vela · 09-05-2018 9:02pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

To me "back door" means anything that isn't through the CAO. It doesn't mean you would be less qualified. I'm glad you love your job I hate mine!

I do think therapists need to be very honest about their training and methodology. A lot of people, for example, don't tell you or explain to you that they are psychoanalysts and what that means. If someone has, for example, OCD, a psychoanalyst with a BA in psychology and an MA in counselling is still absolutely the wrong person for them. There are psychoanalysts that swear blind they can treat OCD, but that's not what the studies say. People naturally assume that all therapists, counsellors and *shudder* life coaches are equally trained and qualified in the way that you'd expect every GP to be.

Like I said above, if I can't help someone I can refer them. Most people do come with stress and depression, most people improve just by talking to someone. I'm never going to pretend to be an expert but I'm going to study like crazy and be really fecking careful. I don't think anyone is an expert, maybe that's something that came out of the data analysis classes.

Ah we agree on a few things so

Best of luck with it!

09-05-2018 9:36pm

I have had two separate experiences of attending therapy. The first was with a clinical psychologist and it wasn't very fruitful. Of course the person was highly trained but I felt we only scraped the surface of my issues.

My second experience was far far better. This time my therapist had a Hdip and masters in psychotherapy, no BA in Psychology. She was specifically trained and accredited in her chosen field so I received a top notch psychotherapist.
It isn’t necessary in my opinion to have a psychology background in order to work effectively. I want a psychotherapist who has the appropriate qualifications, accreditation, and experience.

I do of course acknowledge the importance of being skilled and experienced when working with complex issues, I just don't believe a BA in Psychology is needed for that. Keep in mind also there are many weekend and week long intensive workshops for therapists that offer intensive training in for example early trauma and BPD. In fact Babette Rothschild will be holding one in Dublin this month.

Vela · 09-05-2018 10:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I have had two separate experiences of attending therapy. The first was with a clinical psychologist and it wasn't very fruitful. Of course the person was highly trained but I felt we only scraped the surface of my issues.

My second experience was far far better. This time my therapist had a Hdip and masters in psychotherapy, no BA in Psychology. She was specifically trained and accredited in her chosen field so I received a top notch psychotherapist.
It isn’t necessary in my opinion to have a psychology background in order to work effectively. I want a psychotherapist who has the appropriate qualifications, accreditation, and experience.

I do of course acknowledge the importance of being skilled and experienced when working with complex issues, I just don't believe a BA in Psychology is needed for that. Keep in mind also there are many weekend and week long intensive workshops for therapists that offer intensive training in for example early trauma and BPD. In fact Babette Rothschild will be holding one in Dublin this month.

My experience was the reverse. I went to someone with an MA in psychotherapy and experience, and 2 "counselors" with dubious diplomas. But my positive experience was with a counseling psychologist (albeit not the same as a clinical psych who has less of a focus on the counseling/talk therapy aspect).

I think when, and if, proper legislation comes into play it'll make all of this much easier to navigate and ensure that everyone - psychotherapists or whatever discipline - meets the sufficient level of skills and experience to treat patients.

10-05-2018 12:43am

It's common to have varying experiences, that's part of the human condition because no two people are the same. I am a big advocate of statutory regulation in the industry and having well trained therapists. When this occurs people will hopefully feel more confident in who they attend.

Freedive Ireland · 10-05-2018 10:00am

Yes to statutory regulation, yes to extensive training, the caveat being, it still won't control for any profession not being compassionate people to begin with. It still won't control for the professional expert trying to fix the broken.

The Black Oil · 02-06-2018 9:29pm

Minister has signed the order to regulate. https://health.gov.ie/blog/press-release/minister-harris-signs-order-to-regulate-professions-of-counsellor-and-psychotherapist/

SuperRabbit · 03-06-2018 10:58am

Anyone know what does that mean exactly? Does this mean it's done?

Statutory Regulation of Counselling & Psychotherapy (Mod note in OP)

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