Leinster V Ulster: Friday 14th May Care Bear Cup

Clegg · 14-05-2021 10:53pm

Very odd to say Leinster fans shouldn't be highlighting the injury problems that have plagued the side this season. They've been frequent and have occurred at every position in the forwards and backs. It's been a nightmare.

Clegg · 14-05-2021 10:55pm

Anyway, I thought Leinsters bench won the game in the end. Conan got the try and Kelleher made a huge impact as well. He's comfortably the best ball carrying hooker in Ireland. Makes some very powerful hits in defence as well.

Buer · 14-05-2021 10:59pm

Akrasia wrote: »

Don't feel sorry for yourself, Munster spent years without a 1st choice 10..... we go out and sign 2 big players and a full back, one of them lasts 7 minutes, the other gets injured after a month

Salamoa gets injured after 1 game and barely plays for months, Josh wicherly has a breakout perfomance, gets injured and sits out the rest of the season

Point i'm making is that every team has injuries, Leinster have nothing to complain about

Yeah, I'm not feeling sorry for myself nor does the injury situation at Leinster have that much influence on my emotional state. It's just a curious situation.

Munster have had a very strong season injury wise. Wycherley and Salanoa are fringe players at best at Munster. The vast majority of Munster's squad has been fit and available at key points. When Toulouse visited, POM and Snyman were the only absentees to my recollection and both of those were due to freak incidents.

If the first choice 10 you're referencing is Bleyendaal, then he was already broken when he arrived. That's a whole other conversation.

Leinster have had literally 30+ players who have been unavailable for matches at various times. My query isn't based on whether it's bad luck or a matter of feeling sorry for oneself, it's a query around whether there's an deeper issue with the approach. I'm far from qualified to comment with any level of authority on the matter but the circumstancial evidence as to the injury status of the squad is interesting.

Lost Ormond · 14-05-2021 11:04pm

Clegg wrote: »

There really needs to be clarity over when the captains challenge can be used.

It's clear that the players are confused as to when they can actually use it.

There is clarity.... Players will have been doing sessions with refs, ref manager for league worked with a rep of coaching/management team of each side...

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Couple of very weird decisions at the end.

First saying the try couldn't be challenged because there was no decision made, and then not letting McGrath challenge because he said the doctor said it and it wasn't the team on the field who copped it

The decision has to be made by the referee as to whether there may be more benefit to the non-offending team if play continues. If ref doesnt whistle like if giving advantage for example then you cant challenge anything.
And if doc hadnt been on pitch at time then the players wouldnt have noticed and no challenge would have happened. If players dont see it then of course they shouldnt be allowed make a call based on what the coaches radio down to the medic to tell them to challenge a decision

Buer wrote: »

Fair result. The Connacht win means next to nothing now. Leinster remain a point behind but a chasm in terms of points difference. Munster will need to fail to get a BP in both of their final games for Leinster to move ahead.

Curious about the final moment. One of the Leinster support staff told McGrath to challenge something. Referee refused to do so as he said the Leinster sideline had told McGrath to do it. I don't think there's anything in the directive about that? Seems bizarre. Surely the captain is just the representative and if someone brings something to his attention, he has every right to challenge it?

But not coaches during a game. Its a captains challenge. Its a challenge to something that happens on the field of play. If those on the field of play miss it then tough luck.

Clegg · 14-05-2021 11:12pm

I really dislike the creeping incursion on chat back towards referees. Henderson made a show of himself tonight and Sexton has been guilty on occasion as well. Needs to be nipped in the bud. Adamson got irritated at a Leinster player near the end of the game who questioned his decision too.

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1393282443491385349?s=09

arsebiscuits1 · 14-05-2021 11:24pm

Clegg wrote: »

Anyway, I thought Leinsters bench won the game in the end. Conan got the try and Kelleher made a huge impact as well. He's comfortably the best ball carrying hooker in Ireland. Makes some very powerful hits in defence as well.

There isn't a hooker as powerful as he is on both sides of the ball in Europe imo.

His ability to dominate collisions is incredible.

Fancied him as a Lions bolter. I think he'd thrive against the boks.

Not surprised he didn't make it. But wouldn't have been surprised if he was pickrd

Larbre34 · 15-05-2021 1:00am

Just watched the game back on Bog4, I followed the timeline on this thread too and I thoroughly enjoyed the leather that Liam Toland was receiving from all, I could just imagine the level of manure he was talking.

Burkie1203 · 15-05-2021 6:49am

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

There isn't a hooker as powerful as he is on both sides of the ball in Europe imo.

His ability to dominate collisions is incredible.

Fancied him as a Lions bolter. I think he'd thrive against the boks.

Not surprised he didn't make it. But wouldn't have been surprised if he was pickrd

Marchand, Chat

eclipsechaser · 15-05-2021 9:34am

Lost Ormond wrote: »

But not coaches during a game. Its a captains challenge. Its a challenge to something that happens on the field of play. If those on the field of play miss it then tough luck.

Just because it's called the captain's challenge doesn't obviously mean that a call can't come from elsewhere to the captain. It just means he's the one who formally requests the challenge. Anyway, I presume the ref was correct in saying that no information must come from off the field but nothing about the name itself makes that clear.

Otherwise you shouldn't accept a challenge when a player asks their captain to review something the captain didn't see himself. After all, it's the captain's challenge, not the players'. And that would be silly.

Clegg · 15-05-2021 10:35am

31 tackles from Ryan last night. Incredible work rate.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1393499646111019009?s=09

Buer · 15-05-2021 11:05am

Ryan was excellent last night and really looked like he had a point to prove but I thought Henderson had an even better game by the final whistle.

Ryan's performance was very much a nuts and bolts one with a massive work rate but Henderson had more telling impacts throughout the game in general play, I thought. After the break, Ryan was far quieter than he was in the opening half. I think he has scope to improve significantly in his attacking game. Defensively, he's superb and that potentially the reason for his first half prominence.

Henderson showed brilliant footwork time and time again to get over the gain line and suck in more than one defender as well as being very strong defensively.

hahashake · 15-05-2021 11:48am

Henshaw was very lucky whatever you think it should have been.

Clegg · 15-05-2021 11:56am

Buer wrote: »

Ryan was excellent last night and really looked like he had a point to prove but I thought Henderson had an even better game by the final whistle.

Ryan's performance was very much a nuts and bolts one with a massive work rate but Henderson had more telling impacts throughout the game in general play, I thought. After the break, Ryan was far quieter than he was in the opening half. I think he has scope to improve significantly in his attacking game. Defensively, he's superb and that potentially the reason for his first half prominence.

Henderson showed brilliant footwork time and time again to get over the gain line and suck in more than one defender as well as being very strong defensively.

Looking back on the game I think you can see why Henderson and Ryan could form an excellent partnership. Both are high work rate players with Henderson carrying better and Ryan having the superior lineout game. I've re-watched the match and I can't understand how Ryan didn't get motm. His tackling was superb, but he also stole two Ulster lineouts 5m from his own line. The steals were early in the game and completed disrupted Ulster's lineout for the rest.

There has been a huge improvement in Ryan's work at the lineout. It's gotten to the stage where he's now one of the best poachers of lineout ball in the world.

prawnsambo · 15-05-2021 12:19pm

hahashake wrote: »

Henshaw was very lucky whatever you think it should have been.

Yeah. I'd agree with Stringer and Bowe that it was an out of control tackle. Very very lucky not to see a card.

Clegg · 15-05-2021 12:27pm

It was very encouraging to see Doris grow into the game after an understandably show start. Felt like he was hitting top gear in the second half when the players around him we're starting to tire. He did that a lot last season as well. He must be incredibly for even for a professional rugby player.

Tommy O'Brien looks like he could be a very good player also. Has the pace to make outside break and keeps the ball in both hands to make defenders wary of committing too soon. Lovely take from his own garryowen as well.

Former Former Former · 15-05-2021 12:41pm

hahashake wrote: »

Henshaw was very lucky whatever you think it should have been.

The contact itself was perfect but going in that high there's a huge risk of head on head contact. Could have got carded and knocked himself out in one go.

Shelflife · 15-05-2021 1:45pm

Hes going to get one of those wrong someday and he could end up doing a lot of damage to himself or his opponent as well as a RC.

Terrible tackle technique

irishbucsfan · 15-05-2021 1:56pm

It was not worth the hit. He nearly put himself out of the game and if he'd gone high he could have done serious damage and ended up with a ban

Jerry Attrick · 15-05-2021 4:03pm

hahashake wrote: »

Henshaw was very lucky whatever you think it should have been.

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah. I'd agree with Stringer and Bowe that it was an out of control tackle. Very very lucky not to see a card.

Luck didn't come into it. What rugby law did he break?

Yellow and red cards aren't - or shouldn't be - awarded merely because a player has almost done something wrong.

OldRio · 15-05-2021 4:31pm

Nobody is saying it was an offence. But he was putting himself into a position to easily commit an offence.

A split second early or later. The opponent moving at the last second. His technique or lack off. His and the opponents safety. The referee and his interpretation of the laws. The TMO.

IMHO it was a good hard hit but he was very lucky because any of the above could and would have had serious consequences.

Akrasia · 16-05-2021 10:39am

Jerry Attrick wrote: »

Luck didn't come into it. What rugby law did he break?

Yellow and red cards aren't - or shouldn't be - awarded merely because a player has almost done something wrong.

It was a dangerous high tackle even if no direct contact was made to the head, it ended up with a HIA and could very easily have seriously injured one or both players

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/law/9

“A player must not tackle an opponent early, late or dangerously. Dangerous tackling includes, but is not limited to, tackling or attempting to tackle an opponent above the line of the shoulders even if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders.”

Former Former Former · 16-05-2021 10:41am

OldRio wrote: »

Nobody is saying it was an offence. But he was putting himself into a position to easily commit an offence.

A split second early or later. The opponent moving at the last second. His technique or lack off. His and the opponents safety. The referee and his interpretation of the laws. The TMO.

IMHO it was a good hard hit but he was very lucky because any of the above could and would have had serious consequences.

Exactly this.

All it takes is for the ball carrier to dip by an inch and suddenly they're both knocked out and Henshaw has three weeks to practice his Afrikaans phrasebook.

But as it played out, it was a brilliant tackle.

Akrasia · 16-05-2021 10:54am

Former Former Former wrote: »

Exactly this.

All it takes is for the ball carrier to dip by an inch and suddenly they're both knocked out and Henshaw has three weeks to practice his Afrikaans phrasebook.

But as it played out, it was a brilliant tackle.

It was not a brilliant tackle, any rugby coach who told a player to tackle another player like that should be removed from the game.

it was a dangerous tackle and the fact that it wasn’t even a penalty is a disgrace. Players like Steve Thompson are getting early onset dementia because of tackles like these. They need to be removed from the game and punished with minimum of a yellow card when they happen

Former Former Former · 16-05-2021 11:25am

Akrasia wrote: »

It was not a brilliant tackle, any rugby coach who told a player to tackle another player like that should be removed from the game.

it was a dangerous tackle and the fact that it wasn’t even a penalty is a disgrace. Players like Steve Thompson are getting early onset dementia because of tackles like these. They need to be removed from the game and punished with minimum of a yellow card when they happen

You are correct that tackles like this could contribute to long term issues.

However, since it was a perfectly legal tackle, your beef is with the people who make the rules, not with Henshaw or the ref.

molloyjh · 16-05-2021 11:57am

Former Former Former wrote: »

You are correct that tackles like this could contribute to long term issues.

However, since it was a perfectly legal tackle, your beef is with the people who make the rules, not with Henshaw or the ref.

Exactly. Henshaw tackled below the shoulders and made no contact with Balacounes neck or head. By the laws it was a perfectly valid tackle. A conversation about tackle height being lowered is completely valid. Henshaw was lucky that didn't end up a very bad tackle. Head in head contact was a real possibility. But because of how the laws are written the tackle was completely fine. So a conversation on Henshaw being penalised is in no way valid.

Leinster V Ulster: Friday 14th May Care Bear Cup

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