Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

molloyjh wrote: »

Everyone wants that at all the provinces. But it's not what any of the provinces are doing. I think we just need to accept that at this stage.

I count 4 academy players in all the provincial line ups this weekend

Foley, Doak, SOB, Prendergast

Given how disjointed this season has been, gotta keep the senior players playing as consistently as possible.

Clear the provinces are using this tactic

Leinster have been very poor over the last four games. Don't mind the Munster performance so much as we put out a mostly second string side. But the performances against La Rochelle, Connacht and Ulster have been pretty patchy. Starting games slowly, poor at the breakdown and miscommunication in the backs.

There have been a ton of injuries across the squad and we shipped another two tonight. The team looks like they need the summer to rest, rehab and rethink strategy.

Clegg wrote: »

Leinster have been very poor over the last four games. Don't mind the Munster performance so much as we out out a mostly second string side. But the performances against La Rochelle, Connacht and Ulster have been pretty patchy. Starting games slowly, poor at the breakdown and miscommunication in the backs.

There have been a ton of injuries across the squad and we shipped another two tonight. The team looks like the need the summer to rest, rehab and rethink strategy.

I think the way the season went, starting with finishing last season, walking the pro 14 internationals went a bit strange then Europe with the cancelled game followed by the Exeter game playing 126 interpros as far as I remember more injuries than you could shake a stick at and now having this weird post season thing has all lead to things never quite getting going right, in fairness everyone had the same issues but I think it hit a team that probably plan meticulously that bit more.
TLDR odd season not worried about next year.

salmocab wrote: »

I think the way the season went, starting with finishing last season, walking the pro 14 internationals went a bit strange then Europe with the cancelled game followed by the Exeter game playing 126 interpros as far as I remember more injuries than you could shake a stick at and now having this weird post season thing has all lead to things never quite getting going right, in fairness everyone had the same issues but I think it hit a team that probably plan meticulously that bit more.
TLDR odd season not worried about next year.

I agree with you on the very strange nature of this season. The amount of injuries hasn't helped and neither has empty stadiums.

I also think Leinster have yet to fully come to grips with the new interpretations at the breakdown. We're a side who prided itself on continuity of play and winning the contest at the ruck. But now that referees aren't allowing many contests we're starting to struggle against sides ago have good poachers.

So as the season is in the final throes, I would say the year was disappointing. I believe the side looked off kilter in some matches. There is a lack of a killing instinct in the side, imo. It has been a year of injuries and disruption. That said, the 1st 23 is not good enough. At least to win the Euro.
Rochelle withstood a tough 15 minutes and then we're comfortable throughout the rest of the match. We lost collisions and we were outplayed at the breakdown. It was a bitter pill to swallow. I would say the selection for this match was probably not the best to compete with Rochelle.
For the season though, I would say Ruddock was our player of the year. Fantastic year for him. DK was also a top performer. The breakout star was Keenan. Henshaw was also phenomenal and is in absolutely the best form of his career.
Luke was very good, some great performances and unfortunately, some days to forget. Fardy was way past his best and I think Toner is too. It will look strange next season not seeing Bent and Fardy, but the squad needs a little turnover. I think we will struggle next season at least against top level sides like Toulouse. Some of our players are having the worst year of their careers injury wise and they haven't come back as strong. Larmour and Ringrose come to mind.
The squad needs some of the pups to kick on and push for selection. Next year, I think T.O.B and Milne will hopefully breakthrough and move up the depth chart. I think Dunne could be a big physical presence if he can stay healthy and I reckon one of Deeny or Charlie Ryan will get playing time next season. A revived Leavy would be ideal too.
Maybe our expectations are a bit too high. As of now I think we're a top 5 side in Europe, but are lacking in some areas. The core group remains strong and if the younger lads can push on, we could possibly challenge in Europe. It's been a frustrating year, imo. We went out of Europe with a whimper and were clearly outplayed and out coached.

Juventu4 wrote: »

Time has definitely caught up with Fardy and Toner, fine at majority of Pro 14 games but in Europe that bit of power they have lost shows. Think Soroka will have a big season as he definitely has the size and Tommy O'Brien on Saturday reminded us what he can do.
Think we can win Europe as long as we don't have another season of disruption and injury as this season has been a disaster with lads coming back cleared fit only to breakdown in training or captains run etc. A fully fit Leavy and Ruddock playing together should solve any pack worries on the breakdown and gives us a hard edge in tight games.

If Conan and Doris remain fit and Leavy finds fitness and form. Ruddock won’t make the starting 23, despite how good he has been this season.

Dubinusa wrote: »

So as the season is in the final throes, I would say the year was disappointing. I believe the side looked off kilter in some matches. There is a lack of a killing instinct in the side, imo. It has been a year of injuries and disruption. That said, the 1st 23 is not good enough. At least to win the Euro.
Rochelle withstood a tough 15 minutes and then we're comfortable throughout the rest of the match. We lost collisions and we were outplayed at the breakdown. It was a bitter pill to swallow. I would say the selection for this match was probably not the best to compete with Rochelle.
For the season though, I would say Ruddock was our player of the year. Fantastic year for him. DK was also a top performer. The breakout star was Keenan. Henshaw was also phenomenal and is in absolutely the best form of his career.
Luke was very good, some great performances and unfortunately, some days to forget. Fardy was way past his best and I think Toner is too. It will look strange next season not seeing Bent and Fardy, but the squad needs a little turnover. I think we will struggle next season at least against top level sides like Toulouse. Some of our players are having the worst year of their careers injury wise and they haven't come back as strong. Larmour and Ringrose come to mind.
The squad needs some of the pups to kick on and push for selection. Next year, I think T.O.B and Milne will hopefully breakthrough and move up the depth chart. I think Dunne could be a big physical presence if he can stay healthy and I reckon one of Deeny or Charlie Ryan will get playing time next season. A revived Leavy would be ideal too.
Maybe our expectations are a bit too high. As of now I think we're a top 5 side in Europe, but are lacking in some areas. The core group remains strong and if the younger lads can push on, we could possibly challenge in Europe. It's been a frustrating year, imo. We went out of Europe with a whimper and were clearly outplayed and out coached.

I agree with most of your points except this one tbh.

This squad is easily good enough to win the Champs Cup - and we were touted as favourites by some bookies.

I said it about Sarries last season and I'll say the same about LAR. We are good enough to beat them over half the time. I genuinely believe that.

And the pointy end of knockout rugby there is no such thing as total dominance. At any time in the the last few years, the top 4/5 clubs in Europe can easily beat any of the other top 4/5 on their day. It's not a reasonable expectation to beat all the other best clubs in Europe all the time.


The issue is it doesn't happen as often as it does.

Even look at 2018. That Sarries side were good enough to beat us in the quarters. They just got blitzed by a quick succession of Leinster dominance. Racing could also easily have beaten us on the day - and they almost did. If they had their first or second choice 10 they might well have.

Hell, all Exeter would have needed to swing it for them was a home crowd and one or 2 better decisions and they were home and hosed.

There's so little in it at the top

Also - without getting too bogged down by the ins and outs of our peers at the top of Europe - none of them have had the injury disruptions we have had this season. Not even close

stephen_n wrote: »

If Conan and Doris remain fit and Leavy finds fitness and form. Ruddock won’t make the starting 23, despite how good he has been this season.

Depends, Ruddock does a lot of the donkey work around the tight that won't make the highlights reel but vital for any team plus he seems to be able to make more of a physical impact from my perspective.

Looking back on last weekends game there are a few players who stand out more than I initially thought. It's clear that Ross Byrne was only half fit and that Ringrose was essentially playing as the auxiliary 10. The latter took on more responsibility as first receiver than he normally would, and he was very proactive in defence. It wasn't quite his very best from seasons past, but was probably his best performance of the season. Good response after missing out on the Lions.

Doris had a very strong game as well. He started off slowly but grew into it, especially in the second half. He isn't a wrecking ball but has excellent speed off the line and footwork so will usually make it beyond the gain line. He's also a very good breakdown operators. Made two important steals there. We've missed that in our backrow this season.

Ryan was the best player on the pitch. Don't know how he wasn't awarded motm.

I believe the squad is very good and is a top tier side, but it's a squad that has been lacking something. I hear all the talk about size and power etc, and I wonder if Rochelle overachiever, or if we were not at the races. Either way, I think we have been undercooked. The final against Munster was a game that we dominated. Yet, the scoreline doesn't reflect that.
I think it's likely that the selected 23 was not ideal for Rochelle. Losing Ruddock was obviously a disaster and Baird was not a factor at all. I think Murphy could have made a difference in the pack. I think Baird has stalled somewhat and has not been as good as our expectations wanted. Our problems with the big physical sides is a problem right now. How do we combat this? We appear to be struggling at the rucks and turn over the ball quite easily.
I've rewatched the semi final several times and noticed that we were slow to clear out rucks and at times didn't clear them out. Toner in particular looked poor clearing rucks. But in hindsight, the entire squad was poor. Rochelle looked better prepared, they looked composed and once they got a foothold, they never looked back.
Next season is a rebirth. The focus must be to go further in Europe. The last two defeats were awful viewing, imo.

I think there will be some transition next season. Toner will be less valuable and won't make the 23 for the Euro campaign. If he does, it's a bad sign. He's not near the level needed and hopefully Baird lights it up next season. I think Jack Dunne could also become invaluable. The few cameo's that I saw, he looked physical and carries the ball hard.
Another problem is Healy, I don't see him continuing at a high level. He's 34 now and he is declining. Milne will hopefully get into the mix and make a mark. Sexton at this stage, cannot be counted on. His physical condition and the concussions are surely going to be a factor. I think he will retire prior to next season.
Loose head is a weakness, imo. Ed Byrne is a good player and Dooley is good depth. There is the possibility that Milne can raise his performance and pass both of them, but it's unlikely. Going into tough Euro matches with Healy is not ideal.
Anyway, we are deep in most positions and I think we will be very competitive.

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think there will be some transition next season. Toner will be less valuable and won't make the 23 for the Euro campaign. If he does, it's a bad sign. He's not near the level needed and hopefully Baird lights it up next season. I think Jack Dunne could also become invaluable. The few cameo's that I saw, he looked physical and carries the ball hard.
Another problem is Healy, I don't see him continuing at a high level. He's 34 now and he is declining. Milne will hopefully get into the mix and make a mark. Sexton at this stage, cannot be counted on. His physical condition and the concussions are surely going to be a factor. I think he will retire prior to next season.
Loose head is a weakness, imo. Ed Byrne is a good player and Dooley is good depth. There is the possibility that Milne can raise his performance and pass both of them, but it's unlikely. Going into tough Euro matches with Healy is not ideal.
Anyway, we are deep in most positions and I think we will be very competitive.

I'm convinced Porter is switching back to Loosehead. I can't see Alaalatoa going from 1st choice at the best club team in the world, to 3rd choice at Leinster. I think it will be a Healy/van der Merwe 2010-2012 type deal between him and Furlong. And Porter/Healy as the 2 Looseheads. Not bad depth, it has to be said. Hopefully Milne and Clarkson can kick on with more game time next season too. I honestly think front row is the least of our worries.

We're very light at lock. Ryan is quality obviously, but behind him there's a lack of quality. Baird has huge potential but he has a way to go. Toner is finished sadly. Molony is reliable as ever in the Pro14 but at H Cup level he's not what's needed to challenge at that level. The Soroka idea is an interesting one. I actually wouldn't be surpried if it happened given how short we are.

I think Porter will stay at th! Why weaken the national side? Who would back up Furlong? There's nobody as good as Porter. I think Moore would be a good option but the fall off after Furlong and Porter is quite large.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Well...one is a Lion and one hasn't played internationally in 6 years. The gap is not significant in the tight, but much more so in the loose. That being said, Moore is still a pretty good TH and I wouldn't be worried about him being the bench option.

This. Moore can't get into the Ireland squad ahead of Tom O'Toole. Porter is going to be touring with the Lions. There is a reason for that disparity. I like Moore, but he doesn't offer anything like what Porter does around the pitch.