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Replacement for Wraith Cooler on R5 3600

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  • 15-05-2021 9:21pm
    #1
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Just built a new Ryzen 3600 system for a friend and the stock cooler is to put it bluntly, crap.

    I've got a system that is nice and cool inside according to all other temps and GPU but I'm getting the CPU to heat to 83C on stress testing and when gaming and it's not very good.

    I've managed to get the CPU to 80C max by making the fan run full pelt the whole time and to 78C by turning all the other fans up to max, but in reality all that it is doing is turning the case into a freezer everywhere else and around the vents on the front and back whilst doing little for the CPU.

    Motherboard is a Gigabyte 450M Gaming, not much clearance on the RAM so no massive coolers where that might be an issue. People have reported even the stock needs to be round a certain way to get in, as if it's turned 180 degrees it doesn't clear the RAM.

    Any recommendations for something easy to put together would be appreciated!


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    #2
    sundodger5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭sundodger5


    see where i asked about parts here,
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=116489081
    I went for the arctic freezer but it has very little ram clearance so one of the others may suit.


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    #3
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Yeah, I was thinking of that but the RAM clearance is what made me shy away from it.

    Seeing how average the stock cooler is surprised me. I didn't expect anything special, but it really is very poor. At idle it's fine, hovers around 40c or so, but when you're really working that CPU, it's obvious the thing can't keep pace.


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    #4
    minitrue
    Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭minitrue


    83C is heading towards the high end but still not actually a problem if that's the max under a real maximum load (I think 95C is the throttling point).

    If you still feel you want to change the cooler then the case might also limit the height available and then budget is also an issue obviously. Assuming case height isn't really a factor, the couple of months old Noctua NH-U12S redux might be worth adding to the list of options at about €50 or going down towards the cheapest end maybe an Arctic Freezer 34 (under €30) or if RGB is a desire you can step outside the box with something like the Vetroo V5 (€35ish) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LDz-uDKoJo


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    #5
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki




    be quiet Pure Rock 2 Slim.

    Should fit in most cases without issues on RAM clearance.


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    #6
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    What case clearance does that need? According to the case manual, it has a Maximum CPU Cooler Height of 160mm.

    Looks a very simple cooler to install as well, probably could do that without taking the motherboard out?


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    #7
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    devnull wrote: »
    What case clearance does that need? According to the case manual, it has a Maximum CPU Cooler Height of 160mm.

    Looks a very simple cooler to install as well, probably could do that without taking the motherboard out?

    Pure Rock 2 is 135mm tall.

    With 160mm to play with, you could also spend the extra fiver and get a Pure Rock 2 (BK006) with 120mm fan (155mm tall).


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    #8
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    K.O.Kiki wrote: »
    Pure Rock 2 is 135mm tall.

    With 160mm to play with, you could also spend the extra fiver and get a Pure Rock 2 (BK006) with 120mm fan (155mm tall).

    Be a bit tight for my liking though 5mm, especially if the case clearance is rounded up.


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    #9
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    devnull wrote: »
    Be a bit tight for my liking though 5mm, especially if the case clearance is rounded up.

    Case clearance is never rounded up, they have pretty tight tolerances.
    But sure go for the smaller if you're THAT worried :pac:


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    #10
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Need to do another build at some point so I have hedged my bets and bought both a slim and a standard.

    I've seen success in controlling temps for the meantime by forcing the PPT down in Ryzen Master. and adjusting the fan curve in the BIOS to kick in at 100% as soon as it gets to 60C rather than at 65C as well as slightly increasing the speeds at the 40C and 50C mark from the defaults. Seen a loss of just over 120 on Cinebench which is not a lot.

    Also changed the curve on the case fans as they were barely on most of the time because the MB was reporting very cool temps so didn't ramp them up.

    I had wondered if some of it was about the case, despite the four fans in there, but I've done a check of all my other temps at idle and I see:

    GPU: 30C
    M2 SSD: 31C
    SATA SSDs: 25C
    Motherboard sensors 25C-40C (with ones nearest to CPU the warmest)

    Which just screams to me that generally the cooling setup is okay, just need to get rid of that stock cooler.


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    #11
    Homelander
    Registered Users Posts: 4,364 ✭✭✭Homelander


    I don't think the stock cooler is crap at all, really. It does its job perfectly fine really - 83 under a heavy stress test is actually completely

    Real world applications won't stress it as much. Even with pretty good aftermarket cooling, stressing testing the CPU is still going to have relatively high (but perfectly normal) temps of maybe 70-75c in most cases.

    If you do indeed have heavy workload that is maxing out the CPU constantly, obviously the stock cooler isn't really designed for such use. Also, the stock cooler can't be a bit noisy at times so that's another reason to replace it for some people, but nothing major.

    I have a 5600X and I use the stock cooler. If I specifically stress test it, the temps go up pretty high, but under real world editing and playing games at high refresh, it's nowhere near as hammered as that and temps are a lot lower.


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    #12
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Homelander wrote: »
    I don't think the stock cooler is crap at all, really. It does its job perfectly fine really - 83 under a heavy stress test is actually completely

    Real world applications won't stress it as much. Even with pretty good aftermarket cooling, stressing testing the CPU is still going to have relatively high (but perfectly normal) temps of maybe 70-75c in most cases.

    If you do indeed have heavy workload that is maxing out the CPU constantly, obviously the stock cooler isn't really designed for such use. Also, the stock cooler can't be a bit noisy at times so that's another reason to replace it for some people, but nothing major.

    I have a 5600X and I use the stock cooler. If I specifically stress test it, the temps go up pretty high, but under real world editing and playing games at high refresh, it's nowhere near as hammered as that and temps are a lot lower.

    83c under stress test is what I can get, but once you mix in a graphics card that's working hard when gaming the CPU will sometime spike to 85c now and then which is a bit too much for my liking. I find myself watching the temp a little too much than is healthy when I am seeing figures like that.

    Agree the cooler is fine for most apps and activities but for gaming I'd feel a little more comfortable if I could knock it down a little bit just for my own peace of mind. I'm not used to seeing temps that high on previous Intel builds.

    The one thing I'm concerned about with that Pure Rock 2 cooler is the way it is mounted probably is not going to do anything positive for front to back airflow.


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    #13
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,607 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    devnull wrote: »
    The one thing I'm concerned about with that Pure Rock 2 cooler is the way it is mounted probably is not going to do anything positive for front to back airflow.

    What way have you got your fans set up in your case? Pure rock 2 should be taking cool air in from front intake fans in your case and passing them through the fins and exhausting though the rear of your case. That's generally the standard config/mounting for all aftermarket coolers apart from stock or low profile ones.


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    #14
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    What way have you got your fans set up in your case? Pure rock 2 should be taking cool air in from front intake fans in your case and passing them through the fins and exhausting though the rear of your case. That's generally the standard config/mounting for all aftermarket coolers apart from stock or low profile ones.

    No, you're right, exactly, I was just thinking that having something that tall taking all the space from the motherboard to the side of the case is going to interrupt the flow of air, but you're right.

    This is the board I am using
    B450M_Gaming-1.png

    So essentially the fan would go on the RAM side of the cooler, with the label facing towards the RAM?


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    #15
    randomlad1337
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭randomlad1337


    You really can't go wrong with a Hyper 212, works great and cheap

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cooler-Hyper-Black-Cooling-System/dp/B07H9HJLG5/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=hyper+212&qid=1621212361&s=computers&sr=1-4


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    #16
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    randomlad1337 wrote: »
    You really can't go wrong with a Hyper 212, works great and cheap

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cooler-Hyper-Black-Cooling-System/dp/B07H9HJLG5/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=hyper+212&qid=1621212361&s=computers&sr=1-4

    Hyper 212 have terrible mounts & noisy fans compared to the modern competition.


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    #17
    Confused11811
    Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭Confused11811


    Wasn't there an issue with the thermal paste AMD pre applied to their Coolers ??? I do remember reading that replacing the thermal paste with good quality thermal paste improved performance, maybe it's been addressed since ??

    Another budget option here available in white and black with ARGB fan the Vetroo V5 CPU Cooler - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08NPH45WF.

    The following review convinced me to get it for my Cooler master NR200P build - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LDz-uDKoJo

    Just to note if you do go for this make sure you select "Choose Ship in Amazon packaging at checkout" otherwise it will be sent without any Amazon protective packaging and may arrived damaged.....


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    #18
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    So I have the Pure Rock Slim 2 now.

    Then I discover that the Wraith Stealth uses screws and doesn't actually use the mounting bracket that come as standard on the motherboard and of course, I don't have the mounting bracket :)

    Do you know where I could potentially get them from? I don't need a backplate, just the mounting bracket itself, something like this

    mounting-plate.jpg

    Obviously I don't want the cheapest ones around as obviously something that doesn't hold will be a big problem.


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    #19
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,607 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    devnull wrote: »
    So I have the Pure Rock Slim 2 now.

    Then I discover that the Wraith Stealth uses screws and doesn't actually use the mounting bracket that come as standard on the motherboard and of course, I don't have the mounting bracket :)

    Do you know where I could potentially get them from? I don't need a backplate, just the mounting bracket itself, something like this

    mounting-plate.jpg

    Obviously I don't want the cheapest ones around as obviously something that doesn't hold will be a big problem.

    You can get them on Amazon for a couple of quid, or someone here might have one lying around from a mobo :)

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08RYL8F1G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_0K0Y6JSVG0NA5MAZT6R7


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    #20
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    devnull wrote: »
    So I have the Pure Rock Slim 2 now.

    Then I discover that the Wraith Stealth uses screws and doesn't actually use the mounting bracket that come as standard on the motherboard and of course, I don't have the mounting bracket :)

    Do you know where I could potentially get them from? I don't need a backplate, just the mounting bracket itself, something like this

    mounting-plate.jpg

    Obviously I don't want the cheapest ones around as obviously something that doesn't hold will be a big problem.

    Are you sure they didn't come with your motherboard?


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    #21
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    K.O.Kiki wrote: »
    Are you sure they didn't come with your motherboard?

    CPU and motherboard came as a bundle already installed with the graphics card, that way they would knock the graphics card price down, which as we all know, is what is pushing up the cost of builds these days.

    I guess someone took out the brackets when they fitted the stock cooler.


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    #22
    Confused11811
    Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭Confused11811


    devnull wrote: »
    CPU and motherboard came as a bundle already installed with the graphics card, that way they would knock the graphics card price down, which as we all know, is what is pushing up the cost of builds these days.

    I guess someone took out the brackets when they fitted the stock cooler.

    Where are you located ?


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    #23
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,977 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    Erm.. Your cooler should come with them!


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    #24
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,607 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Giblet wrote: »
    Erm.. Your cooler should come with them!

    Not the default AM4 brackets and backplate, they usually come with the mobo and so most coolers don't supply them. But for some reason the stock wraith stealth doesn't fit with them still on the board so a lot of people remove them and they go missing.


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    #25
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Confused11811 wrote: »
    Where are you located ?

    I've spoke to where I've got the bundle from and they're popping some in the post tonight so I will have them hopefully before the weekend.

    So the backplate is there already, and it's just a case of screwing the brackets into the backplate when they can and attaching the cooler to the brackets once they are in looks very very simple from everything I have seen and read.

    So question is now, how simple would it be to screw the brackets into the backplate whilst it's in the case? I've read horror stories of the backplate falling out whilst trying to do this and damaging something, which is a bit scary, but generally I'm not clumsy.

    I assume the backplate has bits sticking out, that push through the holes on the motherboard, so a steady hand from the other side of the case, along to hold it in place whilst I get a couple of screws in is all that is needed to stop it falling out then just get the other screws in and tighten them all?

    More than happy to take the motherboard out if need-be, but if there's no need it will save an awful lot of time and hassle.


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    #26
    Homelander
    Registered Users Posts: 4,364 ✭✭✭Homelander


    They would've come with the motherboard as standard but I'm guessing if it was a bundle they threw them away and used the stock cooler.

    That's a massive pain. I actually build my PC very recently and I've probably thrown mine out as well but I'll have a look when I'm home later as I did keep the motherboard box.


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    #27
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,977 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    Not the default AM4 brackets and backplate, they usually come with the mobo and so most coolers don't supply them. But for some reason the stock wraith stealth doesn't fit with them still on the board so a lot of people remove them and they go missing.

    Sorry I got confused! I was thinking of a Noctua where you get a mount that screws into the backplate. I also have the default ones spare and would ship them for free but I see he's sorted already. Sorry for the confusion!


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    #28
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,977 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    devnull wrote: »
    So question is now, how simple would it be to screw the brackets into the backplate whilst it's in the case? I've read horror stories of the backplate falling out whilst trying to do this and damaging something, which is a bit scary, but generally I'm not clumsy.

    I assume the backplate has bits sticking out, that push through the holes on the motherboard, so a steady hand from the other side of the case, along to hold it in place whilst I get a couple of screws in is all that is needed to stop it falling out then just get the other screws in and tighten them all?

    So two methods. First, before you do anything, take off the back panel of your case, sometimes you can see the backplate. If you can't, I suggesting that if possible, don't remove all the screws and see can you hold it in place by screwing something directly into the backplate and remove the rest. Yes it does stick through the hole a little bit.


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    #29
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,607 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    devnull wrote: »
    I've spoke to where I've got the bundle from and they're popping some in the post tonight so I will have them hopefully before the weekend.

    So the backplate is there already, and it's just a case of screwing the brackets into the backplate when they can and attaching the cooler to the brackets once they are in looks very very simple from everything I have seen and read.

    So question is now, how simple would it be to screw the brackets into the backplate whilst it's in the case? I've read horror stories of the backplate falling out whilst trying to do this and damaging something, which is a bit scary, but generally I'm not clumsy.

    I assume the backplate has bits sticking out, that push through the holes on the motherboard, so a steady hand from the other side of the case, along to hold it in place whilst I get a couple of screws in is all that is needed to stop it falling out then just get the other screws in and tighten them all?

    More than happy to take the motherboard out if need-be, but if there's no need it will save an awful lot of time and hassle.

    As long as you have a cutout on the back panel of your case to get to the backplate it should be fine, the AMD one has small posts that sit into the motherboard so you should be able to just hold it in place lightly without it falling out


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