Sat Dec 8, 2018

Francie Barrett · 08-12-2018 9:16pm

BumperD wrote: »

Did that really go 11/2 into 2/1 in 5 minutes

I was a little bit late, but the price collapsed just after I posted from 5/1 to 2/1.

You see, the Francie Fiver will put the fear of life into the bookies.

Francie Barrett · 08-12-2018 10:29pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I was a little bit late, but the price collapsed just after I posted from 5/1 to 2/1.

You see, the Francie Fiver will put the fear of life into the bookies.

I see the betfair forums commented on this price collapse.

http://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/31471715/grey-britain#flvWelcomeHeader

It's very odd, I was very surprised to see this return at 2/1.

paddy no 11 · 08-12-2018 10:32pm

Today has made the price for lalor in the ankle, I'll be backing shouldn't have run today

Altior magnificent, stay at 2 miles

posturingpat · 08-12-2018 11:06pm

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Today has made the price for lalor in the ankle, I'll be backing shouldn't have run today

Altior magnificent, stay at 2 miles

Whats the excuse?

madmoose · 09-12-2018 2:00am

Auroras_encore wrote: »

Because the gold Cup is the pinnacle, winning another champion chase does nothing to boost his status

Utter rubbish, Altior, Moscow and Sacre are much remembered and will be more than Don Cossack and Sizing John for example when you speak of greats in the sport if discussed in 20 years time.

Keep him at this distance whilst he is still hot over it, also some of the fields he has beaten have been superb over hurdles and fences. He’s sensational.

madmoose · 09-12-2018 2:04am

I’m amazed Lalor ran today and wasn’t pulled as the ground looked poor for him. It’s obvious he’s ground dependant and no coincidence he’s a left handed track horse now bein 0/3 the other way round. The 9/1 is a huge overreaction and ill be having a good few quid ew for the Arkle.

Also the Arkle as usual will be a small field with only 3 currently at this stage that can win it. Kalashnakov, M.Khan & Lalor. I can’t see much else.

Kauto · 09-12-2018 8:18am

madmoose wrote: »

I’m amazed Lalor ran today and wasn’t pulled as the ground looked poor for him. It’s obvious he’s ground dependant and no coincidence he’s a left handed track horse now bein 0/3 the other way round. The 9/1 is a huge overreaction and ill be having a good few quid ew for the Arkle.

Also the Arkle as usual will be a small field with only 3 currently at this stage that can win it. Kalashnakov, M.Khan & Lalor. I can’t see much else.

Horse hasn't anywhere near the class to win an Arkle. Hyped up with that has gone on in the background. That was a bike race yesterday in Sandown. Ornua finishing second tells you all you need to know. Should have been winning soft ground or not.

madmoose · 09-12-2018 12:29pm

Kauto wrote: »

Horse hasn't anywhere near the class to win an Arkle. Hyped up with that has gone on in the background. That was a bike race yesterday in Sandown. Ornua finishing second tells you all you need to know. Should have been winning soft ground or not.

A Grade 1 winner doesn’t have the class eh? Load of tripe you are talking fella.

Auroras_encore · 09-12-2018 1:41pm

madmoose wrote: »

Utter rubbish, Altior, Moscow and Sacre are much remembered and will be more than Don Cossack and Sizing John for example when you speak of greats in the sport if discussed in 20 years time.

Keep him at this distance whilst he is still hot over it, also some of the fields he has beaten have been superb over hurdles and fences. He’s sensational.

yeah not one on them are remembered as highly as a kauto or a Denman , The gold cup is the one and always will be

Kauto · 09-12-2018 2:39pm

madmoose wrote: »

A Grade 1 winner doesn’t have the class eh? Load of tripe you are talking fella.

No doesn't have the class to beat the likes of Mengli Khan etc. Should have put that poor lot to bed easily yesterday soft ground or not.

Motivator · 09-12-2018 6:17pm

Kauto wrote: »

No doesn't have the class to beat the likes of Mengli Khan etc. Should have put that poor lot to bed easily yesterday soft ground or not.

Rubbish talk.

Auroras_encore · 09-12-2018 6:25pm

Motivator wrote: »

Rubbish talk.

You've a lot to say after races but never before

paddy no 11 · 09-12-2018 6:49pm

Auroras_encore wrote: »

yeah not one on them are remembered as highly as a kauto or a Denman , The gold cup is the one and always will be

Nonsense, those horses are remembered because they were 180 rated horses who ran against each other in the greatest race ever on ratings. Kauto also won 4 king georges few.

Do you really think lord Windermere will be remembered more than altior ffs

Kauto · 09-12-2018 7:34pm

madmoose wrote: »

A Grade 1 winner doesn’t have the class eh? Load of tripe you are talking fella.

Plenty horses have won grade 1's in the past and have been average enough. It's my opinion that this horse is overrated. Part of the hype is obviously the back story to him. That was a very average grade 1 yesterday and he wasn't mapped. Ornua is a glorified handicapper.

Conas · 10-12-2018 3:14am

Auroras_encore wrote: »

yeah not one on them are remembered as highly as a kauto or a Denman , The gold cup is the one and always will be

Kauto star was probaly one of the most overrated horses of all time.

Remember he only won 2 of his 7 starts at the Cheltenham Festival. He didn't have to beat much in 2007, and Denman was not 100% fit at the 2009 festival. I still can't understand the Kauto Star hype.
Best Mate won three in a row and was a flawless jumper, can't say the same about Kauto Star.

Altior has a similar running style to that of Denman. A real tank of a horse, with great power and speed. Altior is probaly one of the best finishers I've ever seen. Unreal speed going up a hill.

Kauto · 10-12-2018 8:17am

Conas wrote: »

Kauto star was probaly one of the most overrated horses of all time.

Remember he only won 2 of his 7 starts at the Cheltenham Festival. He didn't have to beat much in 2007, and Denman was not 100% fit at the 2009 festival. I still can't understand the Kauto Star hype.
Best Mate won three in a row and was a flawless jumper, can't say the same about Kauto Star.

Altior has a similar running style to that of Denman. A real tank of a horse, with great power and speed. Altior is probaly one of the best finishers I've ever seen. Unreal speed going up a hill.

Ah here. I wasn't his biggest fan, but he was an unreal horse amd would consider him on a different level to Best mate.To be able to win top class races from 2M to 3m 2.5F was phenomenal. He danced every dance every season unlike Best Mate who was prepared for 1 race most seasons and his longevity was remarkable.

slimshady007 · 10-12-2018 9:05am

Conas wrote: »

Kauto star was probaly one of the most overrated horses of all time.

Remember he only won 2 of his 7 starts at the Cheltenham Festival. He didn't have to beat much in 2007, and Denman was not 100% fit at the 2009 festival. I still can't understand the Kauto Star hype.
Best Mate won three in a row and was a flawless jumper, can't say the same about Kauto Star.

Altior has a similar running style to that of Denman. A real tank of a horse, with great power and speed. Altior is probaly one of the best finishers I've ever seen. Unreal speed going up a hill.

"Kauto star was probaly one of the most overrated horses of all time."

Shocking statement. When Ruby has sat on some of the best horses over the past 20 years and says he's the best horse he's ridden then that tells you all you need to know. It's well known Cheltenham was not his favourite track but he still won 2 Gold Cups which is more than most horses win. The fact he turned up in top grade races for 7 years at Cheltenham is testament to his longevity and Paul Nicholls training. You fail to reference his multiple wins in the Betfair Chase and King George races. His wins in these races in his final year would have thrilled any genuine or even casual racing fan considering he was the underdog against the new kid on the block in Long Run.

kiers47 · 10-12-2018 9:35am

"Kauto star was probaly one of the most overrated horses of all time."

There doesn't half be some tripe talked around here at times. I would be a bit pickier than most about crowning superstars. But Jesus Christ what in the name of God were you watching to come out with this crap.

posturingpat · 10-12-2018 10:15am

kiers47 wrote: »

"Kauto star was probaly one of the most overrated horses of all time."

There doesn't half be some tripe talked around here at times. I would be a bit pickier than most about crowning superstars. But Jesus Christ what in the name of God were you watching to come out with this crap.

He has to be having a stir

akelly02 · 10-12-2018 11:00am

Conas wrote: »

Kauto star was probaly one of the most overrated horses of all time.

Remember he only won 2 of his 7 starts at the Cheltenham Festival. He didn't have to beat much in 2007, and Denman was not 100% fit at the 2009 festival. I still can't understand the Kauto Star hype.
Best Mate won three in a row and was a flawless jumper, can't say the same about Kauto Star.

Altior has a similar running style to that of Denman. A real tank of a horse, with great power and speed. Altior is probaly one of the best finishers I've ever seen. Unreal speed going up a hill.

if you cant understand that a horse who won his first betfair chase one week, beating beef or salmon by about 20 lengths, then the next week drops down to two miles and beats the champion chaser voy pour ustedes on the bridle in the tingle creek, isnt a superstar, then you need help

posturingpat · 10-12-2018 11:15am

akelly02 wrote: »

if you cant understand that a horse who won his first betfair chase one week, beating beef or salmon by about 20 lengths, then the next week drops down to two miles and beats the champion chaser voy pour ustedes on the bridle in the tingle creek, isnt a superstar, then you need help

Has to be taking the piss. Theres having an Opinion and then plain old ridiculous. Definitely a piss take.

Auroras_encore · 10-12-2018 1:03pm

Conas wrote: »

Kauto star was probaly one of the most overrated horses of all time.

Remember he only won 2 of his 7 starts at the Cheltenham Festival. He didn't have to beat much in 2007, and Denman was not 100% fit at the 2009 festival. I still can't understand the Kauto Star hype.
Best Mate won three in a row and was a flawless jumper, can't say the same about Kauto Star.

Altior has a similar running style to that of Denman. A real tank of a horse, with great power and speed. Altior is probaly one of the best finishers I've ever seen. Unreal speed going up a hill.

jesus christ you'd really wonder how someone could function with so little brain cells

kiers47 · 10-12-2018 1:17pm

In the history of Timeform only 3 horses rated higher than Kauto Star.
Pure hype job sher!!! :pac:

Slattsy · 10-12-2018 3:14pm

Auroras_encore wrote: »

jesus christ you'd really wonder how someone could function with so little brain cells

Says yer man :pac:

Joke. Kinda.

Conas · 10-12-2018 6:31pm

The fact remains he only won 2 of his 7 starts at the Cheltenham festival. Hardly a phenomenal horse based on that alone. I can see why people react sensitively to any sort of criticism of Kauto Star. He done the punters a favour in 2009 during the financial crisis, but come on, was he really a better horse than Sprinter Sacre? He was a very good horse; but I'm not sure whether he should be regarded as one of the greats. Chelteham is where it matters, and his win ratio is poor for what people on here consider a 'phenomenal' horse.

The Mig · 10-12-2018 7:33pm

Cheltenham isn’t the be all and end all for jumps racing. And them 2 races he ‘only’ won were 2 gold cups when you would expect the best to turn up cherry ripe ready to run.

posturingpat · 10-12-2018 8:53pm

Conas wrote: »

The fact remains he only won 2 of his 7 starts at the Cheltenham festival. Hardly a phenomenal horse based on that alone. I can see why people react sensitively to any sort of criticism of Kauto Star. He done the punters a favour in 2009 during the financial crisis, but come on, was he really a better horse than Sprinter Sacre? He was a very good horse; but I'm not sure whether he should be regarded as one of the greats. Chelteham is where it matters, and his win ratio is poor for what people on here consider a 'phenomenal' horse.

6/10 Must try harder;)

Conas · 10-12-2018 9:28pm

The Mig wrote: »

Cheltenham isn’t the be all and end all for jumps racing. And them 2 races he ‘only’ won were 2 gold cups when you would expect the best to turn up cherry ripe ready to run.

Yes, but Best Mate won three in a row Gold Cups.

Cheltenham is the biggest meeting of the NH season. A lot of horses can be excellent in the King George, but flop come to Cheltenham. Cue Card, Mite Bite, Silviniaco Conti are recent examples.
Having to come up the Cheltenham hill at the end of a Gold Cup is the supreme test for any horse.
Cheltenham is the be all and end all, as it's the All-Ireland final of national hunt racing.
Kauto Star was unquestionably a good horse; but not the 'phenomenal' or 'best since Arkle' kinda tags that have since been attributed to him.

Had he won three in a row Gold Cups, and the Queen Mother Chase in 2006, then yes he'd be regarded as one of the greats. The record will always say he lost 5 All Ireland finals, and won only two.

Some may say 2 out of 7 aint bad. I'm of a totally different opinion I'm afraid.

paddy no 11 · 10-12-2018 10:05pm

Conas wrote: »

Yes, but Best Mate won three in a row Gold Cups.

Cheltenham is the biggest meeting of the NH season. A lot of horses can be excellent in the King George, but flop come to Cheltenham. Cue Card, Mite Bite, Silviniaco Conti are recent examples.
Having to come up the Cheltenham hill at the end of a Gold Cup is the supreme test for any horse.

Yeah thanks for pointing that out, kauto star achieved this supreme test not once......but twice!!!!

slimshady007 · 10-12-2018 10:45pm

Conas wrote: »

Yes, but Best Mate won three in a row Gold Cups.

Cheltenham is the biggest meeting of the NH season. A lot of horses can be excellent in the King George, but flop come to Cheltenham. Cue Card, Mite Bite, Silviniaco Conti are recent examples.
Having to come up the Cheltenham hill at the end of a Gold Cup is the supreme test for any horse.
Cheltenham is the be all and end all, as it's the All-Ireland final of national hunt racing.
Kauto Star was unquestionably a good horse; but not the 'phenomenal' or 'best since Arkle' kinda tags that have since been attributed to him.

Had he won three in a row Gold Cups, and the Queen Mother Chase in 2006, then yes he'd be regarded as one of the greats. The record will always say he lost 5 All Ireland finals, and won only two.

Some may say 2 out of 7 aint bad. I'm of a totally different opinion I'm afraid.

Well you're safely in a minority of one there. You keep saying he only won 2/7 times he's run at Cheltenham but they were all Grade 1 races - I can't think of any horse that got close to achieving that consistently high level over such a long period. 6 Gold Cups he contested - how many horses have never reached the same heights after running in one Gold Cup never mind 6. As for some of the horses that "flopped" at Cheltenham, Cue Card has ran and won multiple graded races there, Might Bite has won a RSA and finished 2nd in a Gold Cup. Can only assume you're a WUM and I'm fully feeding into it but jaysus you have posted some absolute dung here over the past couple of days.

Sat Dec 8, 2018

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