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The Bomber

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    #32
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, but it's what is actually hitting him and landing so clean and flush....

    Bellew presents a different type of puncher....the type of shot, the impact, the delivery etc.....Bellew impresses me here...

    Right I think you're full of contradictions here. Bellew is possibly the better defensive fighter in your eyes yet you've never seen Usyk hit clean against fighters I would say are superior and hit harder than Bellew in Breidis and Gassiev. We've seen Bellew wobbled, dropped, stopped. I think the answer is that Usyk is a far superior defensive boxer tbh but anyway.

    If Bellew was some kind of deadly accurate hard puncher it wouldn't have taken him 11 rounds to stop Haye in the first fight. Usyk has very little to worry about.


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    #33
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,692 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I never said Bellew was a better defensive fighter. I'd rate them similar. No contradictions at all...

    Simple: I think the types of shot and the delivery of shots and the technique in delivering shots from Bellew could surprise Usyk. I never said Usyk was not hit flush or clean....

    You are placing a lot in that Gassier fight I feel.....a fooking mummy who didn't event try....


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    #34
    Auroras_encore
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Auroras_encore


    bellew has a punchers chance thats all , usyk can be as good technically as he wants but he's so feather fisted that when he moves up to fight the super hw's hes going to get the jaw taking off him


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    #35
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    walshb wrote: »
    Simple: I think the types of shot and the delivery of shots and the technique in delivering shots from Bellew could surprise Usyk.

    Why would they though? Bellew throws his punches by the book. Absolutely nothing to be surprised by there. Nothing Usyk hasn't seen in his 350+ fights amateur or pro.


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    #36
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,692 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    pac_man wrote: »

    Unless I missed it in this thread, What does Bellew do that makes him a technically better fighter than Usyk?

    You need to ask Johnny Nelson this.


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    #37
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,692 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I think this comes down to (among other things) Usyk setting a pace that is quite intense and frenetic, forcing Bellew to work and think non stop.....could see Bellew gassing badly mid to late rds.


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    #38
    Angliru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Angliru


    Bellew isn't a huge puncher so he doesn't have a punchers chance. Usyk has fought Cruisers, Heavies and Superheavies that punch twice as hard as Bellew. Like the Haye fights, his only chance is that Usyk has had a freak injury that pops up on fight night. Bellew is a decent all rounder and that is that. Usyk has an advantage over him in every category. Usyk is one of the best defensive fighters in the game and has a fantastic approach to offence. He is relentless, accurate and breaks you mentally as much as physically with his output and shot selection. He's not a perfect fighter but he is not a million miles away from it. If Bellew somehow wins it is up there with Leicester City winning the Premier League in terms of shocks.


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    #39
    megadodge
    Registered Users Posts: 5,290 ✭✭✭megadodge


    Being one of the best boxers in the world and being one of the best technical boxers in the world are two different things. It's unfortunate that some people here don't seem to be aware of this.

    There are plenty of boxers out there I'd rate as being better than Usyk technically. There aren't too many I'd rate as being better than Usyk.


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    #40
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    megadodge wrote: »
    Being one of the best boxers in the world and being one of the best technical boxers in the world are two different things. It's unfortunate that some people here don't seem to be aware of this.

    There are plenty of boxers out there I'd rate as being better than Usyk technically. There aren't too many I'd rate as being better than Usyk.
    Well we'll just agree to disagree so. For me Usyk is a far better technical boxer than Bellew as well as being just the overall better boxer. Bellew is the better puncher. That's all he has on him.


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    #41
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Got Usyk KO at evens. Can't see past an Usyk victory, either KO or a handy win.


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    #42
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,555 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Bellew as usual talking dribble in the press conference yesterday ,
    How many times a press conference does he say "believe you me "

    I gotta say I love the way Usyk says something in his native tongue has a little smirk and then the interrupter says in English something complimentary to Bellew ,

    He is defo taking the piss but Bellew can't call him out because he pretends he doesn't know English


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    #43
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Got Usyk KO at evens. Can't see past an Usyk victory, either KO or a handy win.

    Usyk by TKO is being offered at 15/8 on PP.
    I think it's the most likely form of a KO so I am going to lump on.

    Usyk in rounds 7-12 is also tempting


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    #44
    A Shaved Duck?
    Registered Users Posts: 1,686 ✭✭✭A Shaved Duck?


    normanoffside wrote: »
    Usyk by TKO is being offered at 15/8 on PP.
    I think it's the most likely form of a KO so I am going to lump on.

    Usyk in rounds 7-12 is also tempting

    Good price, all i can see is bellew getting peppered for the first 6 rounds then fading and possibly Dave Caldwell throwing in the towel as bellew has a big heart and could get hurt.


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    #45
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    A Shaved Duck? wrote: »
    Good price, all i can see is bellew getting peppered for the first 6 rounds then fading and possibly Dave Caldwell throwing in the towel as bellew has a big heart and could get hurt.

    Yeah I’ve just stuck €100 separately on Usyk TKO at 15/8 and Usyk 7-12 at 23/10

    Good chance both come through


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    #46
    Auroras_encore
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Auroras_encore


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Bellew as usual talking dribble in the press conference yesterday ,
    How many times a press conference does he say "believe you me "

    I gotta say I love the way Usyk says something in his native tongue has a little smirk and then the interrupter says in English something complimentary to Bellew ,

    He is defo taking the piss but Bellew can't call him out because he pretends he doesn't know English

    the meltdown you'll have when bellew knocks out usyk will be glorious


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    #47
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Auroras_encore wrote: »
    the meltdown you'll have when bellew knocks out usyk will be glorious

    You've worded that as if it's a foregone conclusion that Bellew beats an Olympic champion, who's just unified all four belts in the toughest division in the sport.

    I don't know how anyone could possibly pick Bellew in this fight and put genuine logic behind it. Everything points to Usyk and easily.


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    #48
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,555 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Auroras_encore wrote: »
    the meltdown you'll have when bellew knocks out usyk will be glorious

    Why would I have a melt down ?
    Its a boxing match between two lads iv never meet in my life or have no affiliation to, why would I care who wins ?
    Ye sure I think Usyk is a better fighter and should win s but if he doesn't it makes no difference to my life ,

    I don't get people who get in bad form if there favoured fighter/soccer team /rugby team or whatever loses ,
    I'm a grow man with a family Win lose or draw I still have to get up the next morning and go about my life in the same manor as I did the previous day,


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    #49
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,692 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Morrison J wrote: »
    I don't know how anyone could possibly pick Bellew in this fight and put genuine logic behind it. Everything points to Usyk and easily.

    That's the intriguing thing with boxing at times. Fights you expect to go a certain way do not due to a styles clash. And the heavily favored fighter does't dominate or win as easily as some think, and at times even loses..

    Case in point: Curry-Honeygan....

    There are more examples....

    Can Bellew present a style and a plan, that even if it doesn't win, makes the fight very competitive?

    Will Usyk's strengths be nullified by Bellew because of what Bellew can show and do?


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    #50
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    walshb wrote: »
    That's the intriguing thing with boxing at times. Fights you expect to go a certain way do not due to a styles clash. And the heavily favored fighter does't dominate or win as easily as some think, and at times even loses..

    Case in point: Curry-Honeygan....

    There are more examples....

    Can Bellew present a style and a plan, that even if it doesn't win, makes the fight very competitive?

    Will Usyk's strengths be nullified by Bellew because of what Bellew can show and do?
    But you can't pick a winner of a fight based on that sort of logic. Anyone I see picking Bellew is basing it on intangible nonsense like his determination or because "Bellew has proven me wrong too many times before." Zero substance to that kind of logic.

    I think he's game enough and skilled enough that he'll have the odd moment here or there and will come out of the fight with credit but we've seen zero in the past to suggest he can actually win this fight which why I struggle to understand why people are so intrigued by it. On paper this is fairly one-sided.


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    #51
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,692 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Morrison J wrote: »
    But you can't pick a winner of a fight based on that sort of logic. Anyone I see picking Bellew is basing it on intangible nonsense like his determination or because "Bellew has proven me wrong too many times before." Zero substance to that kind of logic.

    I think he's game enough and skilled enough that he'll have the odd moment here or there and will come out of the fight with credit but we've seen zero in the past to suggest he can actually win this fight which why I struggle to understand why people are so intrigued by it. On paper this is fairly one-sided.

    I am more talking about it possibly being closer than what most think..

    I have Usyk via TKO, but I think there will be competition here and that Bellew will make a fight of it......

    I doubt it will be glaringly obvious from bell 1 to the end that Usyk is so so superior...

    I reckon Usyk breaks Bellew down and wears him out, but in a hard fought and competitive fight.....

    Similar to Spence/Brook in terms of who is winning.....not necessarily similar in how it plays out.......

    Can we expect a fair few difficult to score rds and if so, those picking Usyk via points could be in for an upset?


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    #52
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,692 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    One area I see as logically possible is that Usyk's volume/connect rate drops in this fight because Bellew is really "slick" and gets in heavy counters shots that really gain Usyk's respect, making Usyk think a little more before committing on offence...this leading to a lot of action difficult to score and making for a closely fought fight...


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    #53
    magma69
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭magma69


    Usyk is incredible but it'd be funny to see Bellew manage to ko him just to see the boxing hipsters humbled.

    In reality, Bellew is a level below the last two guys Usyk faced. One of whom he absolutely destroyed and the other won a close, competitive decision.

    Would love to see Ward return and fight the winner.


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    #54
    magma69
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭magma69


    Looking at the undercard there and it's absolute muck for a PPV. Eddie Hearn is a hungry cnut. Whyte v Chisora has no business being a ppv headliner either. Hope the majority of people buy the Frampton Warrington fight instead.


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    #55
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    walshb wrote: »
    One area I see as logically possible is that Usyk's volume/connect rate drops in this fight because Bellew is really "slick" and gets in heavy counters shots that really gain Usyk's respect, making Usyk think a little more before committing on offence...this leading to a lot of action difficult to score and making for a closely fought fight...

    I don't think Bellew is really that slick. Bends at the waist pretty well for his size I suppose but he's more than hittable. Really think people are getting carried away with how he slipped the most telegraphed of shots against a Haye leaping at him with one leg. Watch him get dropped by Makabu, watch him get buzzed by Brudov, even watch him lose a round to BJ Flores, he's there to be hit. Gassiev caught Usyk with a good shot and it didn't make Usyk fight any different. I'd be surprised if Bellew's power really makes him think twice in the fight.


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    #56
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,692 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    He’s not inherently slick, I know this..... but I’m talking gameplans here. Bellew is no mug, and if wants, he can make it difficult for Usyk to land clean and consistent..


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    #57
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    magma69 wrote: »
    Looking at the undercard there and it's absolute muck for a PPV. Eddie Hearn is a hungry cnut. Whyte v Chisora has no business being a ppv headliner either. Hope the majority of people buy the Frampton Warrington fight instead.

    Nothing will ever top Bellew vs Cleverly 2!

    At least this time we get to see Tony get battered.


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    #58
    The Dagestani Eagle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 128 ✭✭The Dagestani Eagle


    I want Bellew's wife and children crying in the stands.

    Time to put this circus to a stop once and for all.

    I welcome our new Ukrainian overlords.

    Sell the family silver and put it on Usyk


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    #59
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    Awful injury on Sam Hyde there


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    #60
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    Good fight this. Allen is seriously unfit.


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    #61
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Allen is a disgrace. Given countless opportunities by Hearn and still comes in that unfit.


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