Why are lgbt folk totally against the pope?

jobbridge4life · 25-08-2018 7:29pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Why does this thread even exist?

Probably because we have high profile members of the media tweeting things like this:

https://twitter.com/DavQuinn/status/1033029158383828992

It promotes a base (mis)understanding of LGBT activism in general and grossly distorts the efforts of Christian and Catholic LGBT activists.

I consider myself an LGBT Catholic. I served as an alterserver, sing in choir, attend mass regularly, pray a lot. I am part of a family. I am a Godfather to my baby sister and take it seriously. I love and respect my Grandparents. I have sung, read the liturgy and prayers of the faithful, and otherwise participated in the in the mass at funerals, baptisms, weddings, etc. I did not spawn from soil, I do not live detached as an island. I am family. To host an event celebrating the 'family' in Ireland and to seek to erase the very notion of LGBT brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, parents, children, cousins etc is an act of hostility and exclusion and is in direct contravention of evangelical message of Christ.

normaldude · 25-08-2018 10:23pm

Well I’m really glad that the pope is getting such a good welcome, and also addressing some of issues he inherited. The show in Croke Park was amazing would love to have gone. All the ‘haters’ must be eating some humble pie! Also did I see a few rainbows flags in his drive around dublin and definitely a few well know gays were at concert giving him a warm welcome.
I don’t see why lgbt folk and the church can’t coexist, do we not both preach a message of love

Annasopra · 25-08-2018 10:30pm

normaldude wrote: »

Well I’m really glad that the pope is getting such a good welcome, and also addressing some of issues he inherited. The show in Croke Park was amazing would love to have gone. All the ‘haters’ must be eating some humble pie! Also did I see a few rainbows flags in his drive around dublin and definitely a few well know gays were at concert giving him a warm welcome.
I don’t see why lgbt folk and the church can’t coexist, do we not both preach a message of love

I dont get it. Did you not read any replies here?

normaldude · 25-08-2018 10:40pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

normaldude wrote: »

Well I’m really glad that the pope is getting such a good welcome, and also addressing some of issues he inherited. The show in Croke Park was amazing would love to have gone. All the ‘haters’ must be eating some humble pie! Also did I see a few rainbows flags in his drive around dublin and definitely a few well know gays were at concert giving him a warm welcome.
I don’t see why lgbt folk and the church can’t coexist, do we not both preach a message of love

I dont get it. Did you not read any replies here?

Yes I did. Seems a lot of different opinions on my original question.

But I’m just giving an update, maybe you were not watching, might been too busy with lgbt issues

Annasopra · 25-08-2018 11:14pm

normaldude wrote: »

Yes I did. Seems a lot of different opinions on my original question.

But I’m just giving an update, maybe you were not watching, might been too busy with lgbt issues

Yes exactly. Different opinions but you seem to have ignored all of them. Bit weird. You dont seem to have taken on board anything at all. Whats the point of starting a discussion if you dont want to hear what people have to say?

normaldude · 26-08-2018 12:18am

Yes exactly. Different opinions but you seem to have ignored all of them. I read them all and can see a lot of different view points.
Bit weird - if you think so, your intitled to your opinion.
You dont seem to have taken on board anything at all. Whats the point of starting a discussion if you dont want to hear what people have to say? Who said I didn’t want to hear what people had to say, it’s the reason I started this discussion, and as I can read above not everybody has the same view as the gay rights speakers on Thursday night. Can I ask did you watch the pope today?

JupiterKid · 26-08-2018 2:12am

normaldude wrote: »

Yes exactly. Different opinions but you seem to have ignored all of them. I read them all and can see a lot of different view points.
Bit weird - if you think so, your intitled to your opinion.
You dont seem to have taken on board anything at all. Whats the point of starting a discussion if you dont want to hear what people have to say? Who said I didn’t want to hear what people had to say, it’s the reason I started this discussion, and as I can read above not everybody has the same view as the gay rights speakers on Thursday night. Can I ask did you watch the pope today?

You have received many responses on this thread that shows that although many LGBT people do have antipathy towards the church (as do many many heterosexual people too) and this is understandable given the Church’s historic hatred and persectuion of LGBT people, many LGBT people also are active and faithful Catholics. We are complex and cannot be pigeonholed.

But I suspect that you are not looking for these sorts of responses and are simply trolling to goad a reaction. Your username “normaldude” says it all. So you are “normal” because you are (presumably) straight and we as as LGBT are presumably abnormal?

Annasopra · 26-08-2018 9:23am

JupiterKid wrote: »

You have received many responses on this thread that shows that although many LGBT people do have antipathy towards the church (as do many many heterosexual people too) and this is understandable given the Church’s historic hatred and persectuion of LGBT people, many LGBT people also are active and faithful Catholics. We are complex and cannot be pigeonholed.

But I suspect that you are not looking for these sorts of responses and are simply trolling to goad a reaction. Your username “normaldude” says it all. So you are “normal” because you are (presumably) straight and we as as LGBT are presumably abnormal?

Mod

Its not appropriate to throw out accusations of trolling. This is called back seat modding. If you suspect trolling report the post. As always responses to moderation should only be by pm.

ELM327 · 26-08-2018 9:36am

As someone who is not LGBT but is very much an ally of the LGBT community I understand why LGBT people are mostly anti the pope. I am anti the pope and the RCC for similar reasons. (setting aside the paedophilia)
The fact that they still pump out the rubbish about "the family" being man woman and child(ren) is discriminatory and borderline hate speech. They label homosexual acts as sinful and no amount of words or "apologies" can change this.

The program on RTÉ the other night with Mary McAleese really sums it up, the only concerning family was the mixed race one as they continue to indoctrinate their children with toxic religion. It was pleasantly surprising to see the teenage child with the adoptive gay male couple, it's something to date I'd not seen much of. LGBT parenting is still relatively new in this backward country so most of the children involved have not reached adulthood yet.

normaldude · 26-08-2018 11:15am

You have received many responses on this thread that shows that although many LGBT people do have antipathy towards the church (as do many many heterosexual people too) and this is understandable given the Church’s historic hatred and persectuion of LGBT people, many LGBT people also are active and faithful Catholics. We are complex and cannot be pigeonholed.

But I suspect that you are not looking for these sorts of responses and are simply trolling to goad a reaction. Your username “normaldude” says it all. So you are “normal” because you are (presumably) straight and we as as LGBT are presumably abnormal?[/quote]

No not straight. Not a troll. Not a gay rights activist. Not a panti bliss fan.

But I am a normal joe soap, a fan of the pope visit, can see how much happiness and good will the pope visit is bringing hopefully the bitter man on RTÉ Thursday night heart will warm and show love not hate

eviltwin · 26-08-2018 11:34am

I think it's obvious why so many people have an issue with the church and the Papel visit. It's obvious a lot of people have had a very positive experience of the church and this visit is a happy occasion and I hope they enjoy the day. I say that as someone with a very negative experience of the church.

I saw the guy the OP is referring to and he was angry but understandably so. I'm angry too. This visit and the lead up to it has been very difficult for a lot of people, there has been a lot of talk about the hurt caused over the years, it's natural that anyone affected is going to be reminded of difficult times.

I think it would be kinder if those lucky enough not to be in that group could show a bit of empathy and support to those who were victimised and just bear in mind that this weekend is not an easy one for us.

Enjoy your day and the park OP.

normaldude · 26-08-2018 11:54am

eviltwin wrote: »

I think it's obvious why so many people have an issue with the church and the Papel visit. It's obvious a lot of people have had a very positive experience of the church and this visit is a happy occasion and I hope they enjoy the day. I say that as someone with a very negative experience of the church.

I saw the guy the OP is referring to and he was angry but understandably so. I'm angry too. This visit and the lead up to it has been very difficult for a lot of people, there has been a lot of talk about the hurt caused over the years, it's natural that anyone affected is going to be reminded of difficult times.

I think it would be kinder if those lucky enough not to be in that group could show a bit of empathy and support to those who were victimised and just bear in mind that this weekend is not an easy one for us.

Enjoy your day and the park OP.

OP know what you mean just saw this video on fb, I really hope visit brings some healing for those who were wounded in the past.

https://youtu.be/iq-BB_aZUVI

Annasopra · 26-08-2018 12:03pm

normaldude wrote: »

OP know what you mean just saw this video on fb, I really hope visit brings some healing for those who were wounded in the past. https://youtu.be/iq-BB_aZUVI

The issue (as Eviltwin has said) for many is that it wont bring healing and literally reopens the wounds and retraumatises them.

I think Eviltwin is correct here - enjoy it, recognise that for many others it is deeply hurtful and retraumatising, respect this.

Sardonicat · 26-08-2018 12:26pm

OP, I don't know if you are aware but the Pope referred to those senior clergy involved in the cover up of clerical sexual abuse as "ca ca" in his meeting with abuse and mother and baby home survivors. He basically called them pieces of **** in Italian, which they are. He didn't bleat on about not tarring everyone with the same brush. I'm quite sure he perfectly understands why some people are extremely angry and bitter.

JupiterKid · 26-08-2018 2:53pm

normaldude wrote: »

No not straight. Not a troll. Not a gay rights activist. Not a panti bliss fan.

But I am a normal joe soap, a fan of the pope visit, can see how much happiness and good will the pope visit is bringing hopefully the bitter man on RTÉ Thursday night heart will warm and show love not hate

I think you'll find, given the very thin attendance at the Pope's Phoenix Park event today, that the "normal joe soap" doesn't want to have much to do with the church or the Pope or the Vatican any longer.

The church is its death throes in this country - and for good reason. Anyone disputing this fact is in deep denial.

It hugely damaged and betrayed a huge cohort of our population. It's the ones still clinging on who are the out of the ordinary now.

Heebie · 26-08-2018 4:23pm

JupiterKid wrote:

The church is its death throes in this country - and for good reason. Anyone disputing this fact is in deep denial.

It's my hope that it dies worldwide within my lifetime.

Ten of Swords · 26-08-2018 5:43pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

I think you'll find, given the very thin attendance at the Pope's Phoenix Park event today

Turnout was reported to be 130,000 - a quarter of the 500,000 expected

http://www.thejournal.ie/papal-mass-phoenix-park-crowd-size-4202680-Aug2018/

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/pope-visit-ireland-dublin-15074489

original?width=630&version=4202862

normaldude · 26-08-2018 8:24pm

Folks I’m not getting much positivity from the lgbt community about the pope, what do the lgbt community want we all go adore panti bliss the apparent queen in waiting of Ireland? Let’s give up everything we were thought thought though our life/education system. Did anyone see in sky news 3.7 million people said they were catholic in this country. Every newspaper in this country agreed today a positive visit, what do lgbt want? Panti bliss to pope maybe?

Annasopra · 26-08-2018 9:00pm

normaldude wrote: »

Folks I’m not getting much positivity from the lgbt community about the pope, what do the lgbt community want we all go adore panti bliss the apparent queen in waiting of Ireland? Let’s give up everything we were thought thought though our life/education system. Did anyone see in sky news 3.7 million people said they were catholic in this country. Every newspaper in this country agreed today a positive visit, what do lgbt want? Panti bliss to pope maybe?

Fair enough you are positive about the visit. Dont expect everyone else to be. I really dont get it though. You have been told by numerous people that LGBT people are not a hive mind that all think the same. It has been explained to you (a lot) why some LGBT people would be deeply angry at the church (and badly hurt) because of how it has treated LGBT people (and women) and what it teaches about us. Clearly you are not listening to us at all.

Ten of Swords · 26-08-2018 9:05pm

There is no unified groupthink in the LGBT community and, although there has been a tenuous relationship between the RCC and the LGBT community, there are plenty of LGBT Christians and LGBT Catholics in Ireland.

Who/what are we "giving up" exactly? Also, the only one who has mentioned Panti Bliss in this thread is you.

normaldude · 26-08-2018 9:08pm

Sorry moderator maybe I should have said‘some’ of the lgbt community from the start as you can see I just usually post on important issues, not on whether panti bliss makeup:)

26-08-2018 9:23pm

Gosh, you have some serious issue with panti bliss!

I am not gay, not an I practising Catholic. But it seems obvious why some LGBT people have a problem with the Pope.
He is the head of a church that basically tells them what they do, sexually, is a sin. It doesnt believe in gay marriage.
So, how hard is that to understand?

eviltwin · 26-08-2018 9:36pm

normaldude wrote: »

Sorry moderator maybe I should have said‘some’ of the lgbt community from the start as you can see I just usually post on important issues, not on whether panti bliss makeup:)

Now you're just embarrassing yourself

L.Jenkins · 26-08-2018 10:02pm

normaldude wrote: »

Sorry moderator maybe I should have said‘some’ of the lgbt community from the start as you can see I just usually post on important issues, not on whether panti bliss makeup:)

Mod Warning Snide remarks aren't welcome. This is the only warning I'm giving.

JackTaylorFan · 27-08-2018 1:14am

The impression I get, mostly running and speaking within non-LGBT+ circles on a day-to-day basis, is that the percentage of non-LGBT+ people being opposed to the Catholic Church is about the same as the percentages you'll find in LGBT+ circles.

Can't say I see a significant division of public opinion based on the demographics you are trying to imply there is - i.e. being LGBT+ makes you more likely to be anti-RCC. It is quite clear from the last few days, a large majority in Irish society are quite frankly, sick of the church and its associated abuses of our people throughout the last few centuries - which was also reflected quite well in recent referendums - Equality, Repeal the 8th - both of which went against Papal wishes.

And with that in mind, this whole thread seems kind of pointless.

27-08-2018 5:36pm

normaldude wrote: »

People forget the teaching of the church go back 1000s of years, how long do lgbt groups exist?

I don't think anyone "forgets" that, but it sounds as if you think the longevity of one is all that's needed to give it superiority over the other.

If so, well then yes, the church outdates LGBT groups by some distance. It does not however outdate LGBT people who have been around since the dawn of evolution at least. After all, there had to be gay people there first in order for the people who wrote the old and new testaments to feel such vitriolic hatred towards them later.

CreativeSen · 28-08-2018 8:53am

normaldude wrote: »

Just watching RTÉ and high level lgbt speaker totally against pope visit, now I don’t agree with this, and what gives him the right to represent lgbt folk, can’t remember the guys name but seemed v bitter!

Because the Pope thinks I have a mental disorder that can be cured.

Pope Francis on his retrun flight to Rome from Ireland wrote:

"When it [LGBT traits] shows itself from childhood, there is a lot that can be done through psychiatry, to see how things are.... ignoring a child who showed homosexual tendencies was an "error of fatherhood or motherhood".

Guardian Article, 28-08-2018

Maybe it was a slip of the tongue. Maybe the Pope didnt mean what he said. Maybe the Vatican was right to delete the text from their official response.

Maybe its a real insight into what they think of me, who I am and what my relationship represents.....intrinsically disordered and suffering from a curable mental illness.

ELM327 · 28-08-2018 9:18am

CreativeSen wrote: »

Because the Pope thinks I have a mental disorder that can be cured.

Guardian Article, 28-08-2018

Maybe it was a slip of the tongue. Maybe the Pope didnt mean what he said. Maybe the Vatican was right to delete the text from their official response.

Maybe its a real insight into what they think of me, who I am and what my relationship represents.....intrinsically disordered and suffering from a curable mental illness.

I don't know why people are still surprised. The RCC and most christian churches are very homophobic. Always have been, it's almost like it's in their "constitution" or something :eek::pac:

L.Jenkins · 29-08-2018 9:45pm

An interesting read into the study of attitudes of some towards the LGBT community. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/roots/overview.html

cgcsb · 30-08-2018 3:12pm

normaldude wrote: »

Well he didn’t say he was abused! And it wasn’t the pope that pulled up his altarboy gown, can’t paint whole organization with the one brush!

Well that's where you're wrong. If you are the CEO of a company, head of a country, chair of some organization etc. you are RESPONSIBLE for what goes on.

normaldude wrote: »

People forget the teaching of the church go back 1000s of years, how long do lgbt groups exist?

I'm sure you have a point here, but not sure what it is. Do you think that being old means that one is righteous?

Why are lgbt folk totally against the pope?

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