Deontay Wilder v Tyson Fury - December 1st

walshb · 12-12-2018 5:23pm

Wilder Points

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I didn't say 'all' cases. I said 'most'.

Ok,

But pac-mans post is still true IMO.

walshb · 12-12-2018 5:23pm

Wilder Points

Cyrus wrote: »

exactly like two cousins eating contaminated boar

With the balls still intact!

Alf Veedersane · 12-12-2018 5:25pm

pac_man wrote: »

How do you differentiate between who are cheats and who isn't cheating?

Intentionally taking banned substances is a start.

Alf Veedersane · 12-12-2018 5:32pm

walshb wrote: »

One for me is Maria Sharapova. For me hard done by. I never believed that she gained any edge, or that she deliberately tried to.

Ah heyor.

walshb · 12-12-2018 5:34pm

Wilder Points

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Ah heyor.

Well, there was, and maybe still is a debate about Melondium even being a PED......was fine for years to use....

Overall the whole PEDs in sports is a crock of sh1t.......too many arguments and debates and excuses etc.....

Wanna know the biggest PED in sport? Fooking money, and the more of it, usually the greater the performance....

And the tribunal who investigated her did say that there was no intention to cheat.

Alf Veedersane · 12-12-2018 5:57pm

walshb wrote: »

Well, there was, and maybe still is a huge debate about Melondium even being a PED......was fine for years to use....

Just because something hasn't been banned, doesn't mean it's not a PED. When a large number of winners/medallists start have been found to be taking meldonium, it makes you wonder do they all have the same condition requiring it for legitimate medical treatment or if there is a performance enhancement from taking it at a level where that 0.5% makes a difference.

But if you believe it was a genuine mistake and she had a legitimate medical reason for taking it and there was no intention to improve performance by taking it, outside of this medical condition, then we'll just agree to disagree.

Especially since its only taking the thread further off topic.

walshb · 12-12-2018 6:06pm

Wilder Points

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

But if you believe it was a genuine mistake and she had a legitimate medical reason for taking it and there was no intention to improve performance by taking it, outside of this medical condition, then we'll just agree to disagree.

Especially since its only taking the thread further off topic.

Well, even "if" she was taking it to improve performance, she was doing it legally for years. Isn't that what all athletes should be doing, doing things to improve performance? Within the rules that is. That is all athletes are thinking about; doing things and taking things to make them better.....that's human nature.

Now, she continued taking it under medical supervision after it went to the banned list, and that was (according to her team and her) down to ignorance.

This is where we choose to believe or disbelieve in her.

I think she made a genuine mistake here. Her team let her down. Yes, she is responsible, but it was for me a genuine mistake.

But yes, we are going off topic big time. Interesting debate all the same.

Morrison J · 12-12-2018 6:09pm

Wilder Points

Think its fair to say Freddie Roach won't be in Fury's corner again. Awful form from Freddie talking about this in the open. I couldn't disagree with him more either. Davison had Fury boxing to the perfect plan that night.

walshb · 12-12-2018 6:18pm

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Think its fair to say Freddie Roach won't be in Fury's corner again. Awful form from Freddie talking about this in the open. I couldn't disagree with him more either. Davison had Fury boxing to the perfect plan that night.

Kind of bad form alright, but he has a point about Fury being more offensive.....this allowing him to possibly make sure of the win, and maybe even get the stoppage; of course, that comes with risk.....but it's HW boxing...

I scored 7-5 Fury....but some rds could be argued either way.

Butson · 12-12-2018 6:24pm

Jesus that is bad form from Roach

Cyrus · 12-12-2018 6:25pm

Butson wrote: »

Jesus that is bad form from Roach

obviously doesnt like not being the main man!

Morrison J · 12-12-2018 6:39pm

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

Kind of bad form alright, but he has a point about Fury being more offensive.....this allowing him to possibly make sure of the win, and maybe even get the stoppage; of course, that comes with risk.....but it's HW boxing...

I scored 7-5 Fury....but some rds could be argued either way.

So you scored it a draw with the knockdowns?

Standing in front of Wilder and trying to push him back might have worked but its a stupid risk to take when clearly up on the cards to literally everyone in the arena bar one judge. Without the 12th round knockdown they'd have won.

Fury was boxing great using his advantages. His size, feet and ability to put his punches together are on a completely different level to Wilder. Why take away those advantages when they are working so well against a guy who carries his power as late as Wilder. Madness I think.

dulux99 · 12-12-2018 7:28pm

Any of you listened to Wilder on Joe Rogans podcast? Came across as an awful plonker. "I'm the type of guy who'll have a conversation with a homeless man" wow mate brilliant stuff

walshb · 12-12-2018 7:58pm

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

So you scored it a draw with the knockdowns?

Standing in front of Wilder and trying to push him back might have worked but its a stupid risk to take when clearly up on the cards to literally everyone in the arena bar one judge. Without the 12th round knockdown they'd have won.

Fury was boxing great using his advantages. His size, feet and ability to put his punches together are on a completely different level to Wilder. Why take away those advantages when they are working so well against a guy who carries his power as late as Wilder. Madness I think.

My point was that it’s possible Fury could have sealed the deal more. I think that is what Roach was meaning...

Several close rds and some more of the nicking variety..

I’m looking at it from Roach’s perspective..

Ultimate Seduction · 12-12-2018 8:15pm

Draw

Roach is a bitter man

Ultimate Seduction · 13-12-2018 5:02am

Draw

325,000 pay per view buys. Not bad for 2 nobody's in the age of dodgy box's an illegal streams

yourdeadwright · 13-12-2018 11:11am

Draw

dulux99 wrote: »

Any of you listened to Wilder on Joe Rogans podcast? Came across as an awful plonker. "I'm the type of guy who'll have a conversation with a homeless man" wow mate brilliant stuff

I can't listen to him , Its like he tries to over think everything he says to sound intelligent but instead comes off and bit thick ,

Anyone also notice how he changes the tone of his voice for effect through every sentence he says and sounds like someone from a cheesy movie , At stages he starts to whisper its creepy,

yourdeadwright · 13-12-2018 11:13am

Draw

walshb wrote: »

My point was that it’s possible Fury could have sealed the deal more. I think that is what Roach was meaning...

Several close rds and some more of the nicking variety..

I’m looking at it from Roach’s perspective..

Close rounds I agree but not a close fight Fury won it ,
If you score it how it's supposed to be scored Fury wins every time ,

walshb · 13-12-2018 12:30pm

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Close rounds I agree but not a close fight Fury won it ,
If you score it how it's supposed to be scored Fury wins every time ,

I have only watched it once, anyone claiming anything based off one viewing in the heat of action etc may not be always right. Not saying that you have only watched once......

I sometimes will revisit a fight, and I am sure we can all agree that not always do we score the fight the same way.

I could score for Fury clearer if I sit back and watch it again with that bit more time and the more relaxed atmosphere; conversely, I could score it more towards Wilder....

Back to the topic of Roach: Don't agree with how he has went about this.

But from purely a coach perspective I can absolutely see his points....

Now, had Fury been more aggressive he may well have gotten knocked out, but we don't know that. He may well have won more clearly and even scored the KD

With some rds being close, as well as both big 10-8 rds, then Roach does make valid points. Sometimes you have to really go and win and land clean and often to make sure....

Fury had a nice game-plan and it served him well. Roach was looking for a bit more oomph and offense to make no doubt about the winner......

yourdeadwright · 13-12-2018 12:40pm

Draw

Fury boxed perfectly for the fight, I'm talking style wise as I know it was not perfectly implemented as he got caught twice,

Don't forget it was his first proper fight in 2/3 years , In my opinion he knew he couldn't be more aggressive as he wouldn't have the gas tank for it and last thing you want is to be out on your feet against Wilder,

There is footage from each round in his corner and Ben says something along the lines of " i told you we'd win this with just our left hand " he doesn't need to load up on the right , I'm positive they where aware his cardio was not 100% from round 9 on he slowed down before the knock down ,

I think in the rematch he will be able to put the foot down and put more power shots inot the fight as his fitness will have improved,

NaiveMind5 · 15-12-2018 3:01am

For sure his cardio was going to be far from its peak but not only that, losing so much weight so fast will definitely have an effect on his balance and stamina.

I thought Wilder came across very well in the Joe Rogan interview, leading up to the fight he kept pretty much quiet. Was surprised how well he came across and how chatty he was on the show. Great story about ending up in the Olympics only after a year and half worth of training? crazy

Ultimate Seduction · 16-12-2018 8:14pm

Draw

This is on tonight on BT sports 2 at 2045 for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

Ultimate Seduction · 17-12-2018 1:55am

Draw

pac_man wrote: »

BBC would really want to change that "personalty" award that they give out. Andy Murray winning it 3 times in the last couple of years?

Heard the women's netball team won moment of the year, that says it all. I can guarantee you 95% of the population haven't ever seen netball or that game. Fury is trending in the UK twitter, none of the nominee's are.

Morrison J · 17-12-2018 2:23am

Wilder Points

Frampton not even getting nominated in 2016 is still the biggest injustice. Wins fighter of the year and doesn't even get a look in by the BBC. Amazing.

Henno30 · 17-12-2018 10:16pm

Roach has always been like that. He was never a 'nice guy'.

I don't know about everyone else but lately I get the impression that the vast majority of boxing fans are heavily behind Fury now.

It's harsh on AJ. He might be a 'product' but he is a much more entertaining fighter than Fury. AJ-Wlad was legitimately a great heavyweight fight that was up there with what the heavyweight division had to offer in the 1990s.

Fury-Wlad was a terrible fight. And while Fury-Wilder was much better, especially with the drama of the 12th, in general the standard was miles off what you would consider top class heavyweight boxing by historical standards.

Ironically Fury is the one who is trading off what happens outside the ring, despite the heavy industry backing for AJ.

squinn2912 · 17-12-2018 11:45pm

Draw

I think you raise a good point but to be fair Fury was inactive for so long, fought two really low level tune ups, was laid out flat in the 12th round and he got back up to finish strongly. All this has just happened after he's been written off. I think he deserves all the credit he gets. I think AJ got plenty of credit for the Wlad fight - again rightly so.

Cyrus · 18-12-2018 10:12am

Henno30 wrote: »

AJ-Wlad was legitimately a great heavyweight fight that was up there with what the heavyweight division had to offer in the 1990s.

Fury-Wlad was a terrible fight.

Wlad nearly knocked AJ out over 2 years after he couldnt lay a glove on Fury, it may have been more entertaining, but Fury beat a younger wlad more comprehensively than AJ

walshb · 18-12-2018 11:30am

Wilder Points

Cyrus wrote: »

Wlad nearly knocked AJ out over 2 years after he couldnt lay a glove on Fury, it may have been more entertaining, but Fury beat a younger wlad more comprehensively than AJ

Post up all those comprehensive punches that Fury landed on Wlad.....

Bit of perspective here from the Fury fanboys......

Wlad landed eff all, and Fury landed eff all...

That equals terrible fight in my book...it was a hug fest spoil fest.....

AJ beat Wlad up and stopped him, whilst taking his own fair of shots, too...very decent fight in my book....

Cyrus · 18-12-2018 11:38am

walshb wrote: »

Post up all those comprehensive punches that Fury landed on Wlad.....

Bit of perspective here from the Fury fanboys......

Wlad landed eff all, and Fury landed eff all...

That equals terrible fight in my book...it was a hug fest spoil fest.....

AJ beat Wlad up and stopped him, whilst taking his own fair of shots, too...very decent fight in my book....

way to misread what i posted

stay classy

yourdeadwright · 18-12-2018 11:41am

Draw

walshb wrote: »

Post up all those comprehensive punches that Fury landed on Wlad.....

Bit of perspective here from the Fury fanboys......

Wlad landed eff all, and Fury landed eff all...

That equals terrible fight in my book...it was a hug fest spoil fest.....

AJ beat Wlad up and stopped him, whilst taking his own fair of shots, too...very decent fight in my book....

Don't get a good fight and an exciting fight mixed up ,

Both men one fair enough but I was way more impressed with Fury goes to Germany and beats Wlad on the cards without being touched , Was it exciting no but he done what no one did for 10 years,

AJ won a very exciting fight but he also came within a few seconds of losing, Great exciting win

4 men have KO'd Wlad , Aj is one of them , although Wlad was 2 years out and at his oldest

1 man has out boxed Wlad to win on the cards , and he done it on Wlads home turf, it may have bored you but no man has done it before, he done what he had to, to win

Fury for me was more impressive but I guess it depends how you view boxing ,There is no right or wrong answer to this ,

Deontay Wilder v Tyson Fury - December 1st

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