Great Railway Journeys on CIE

Del.Monte · 19-09-2016 10:22pm #1

I had reason to take the train from Enniscorthy to Bray and back yesterday, and faced into the journey with some trepidation given it was the day of the GAA Final. Getting the afternoon train at least meant I would miss fans traveling up for the game but the return might be different.

No pocket timetables available at Enniscorthy - haven't been any for months apparently.

No problem in the Up direction. The station at Bray is the same miserable kip that it has been for years. Pub still closed. The bookstall that Dick Fearn assured me had been closed for operational reasons, and was needed by the company, is now a coffee takeaway. The board's servant in the ticket office was unhelpful and also had NO pocket timetables.

The grubby hut beside the ticket turnstiles had been replaced by a new grubby hut at the other end of the turnstiles. It seemed to serve as a place for its incumbent to entertain his pals - not sure whether they were CIE employees or not.

The Down Rosslare served the Down platform - causing people to have to drag their luggage over the bridge. Is it really impossible for CIE to show some consideration to their passengers over perceived operational requirements? The train was quite busy and I was fortunate to get a seat in a quieter carriage - at least so I thought. However, a mother had a teething child with her that cried/screamed all the way to Enniscorthy and while I can cope with that having been there, others did not feel the same way. When the unfortunate mother had left the carriage ahead of me at Enniscorthy, remarks were made about that being the reason that they rarely took the train and wouldn't be again. Of course if we still had proper trains instead of short railcars that needn't be a problem.I note that the manufacturers plate has mysteriously reappeared on the signal cabin at Gorey - it spent some years in a garden in south Wexford - apparently.

I almost forgot, the Rail Gourmet trolley was molested by drunks who stole quite a lot of stock and the unfortunate steward was told by his superiors not serve anymore customers. It didn't affect me as it's several decades since I made that mistake. All in all a typical journey by Irish Rail punctuated by repetitive, bilingual announcements and platitudes from a company that couldn't give a fig for their customers.

whisky_galore · 20-09-2016 12:30pm

So based on that traumatic experience, you'll not be darkening Irish Rail's doors ever again, yes?

Del.Monte · 20-09-2016 3:55pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

So based on that traumatic experience, you'll not be darkening Irish Rail's doors ever again, yes?

"However, a mother had a teething child with her that cried/screamed all the way to Enniscorthy and while I can cope with that having been there, others did not feel the same way."

Alas, I have no choice as the bus service is a poor alternative, but IE shouldn't end up being the last resort rather the first choice.

Banjoxed · 20-09-2016 4:39pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

I had reason to take the train from Enniscorthy to Bray and back yesterday, and faced into the journey with some trepidation given it was the day of the GAA Final. Getting the afternoon train at least meant I would miss fans traveling up for the game but the return might be different.

No pocket timetables available at Enniscorthy - haven't been any for months apparently.

No problem in the Up direction. The station at Bray is the same miserable kip that it has been for years. Pub still closed. The bookstall that Dick Fearn assured me had been closed for operational reasons, and was needed by the company, is now a coffee takeaway. The board's servant in the ticket office was unhelpful and also had NO pocket timetables.

The grubby hut beside the ticket turnstiles had been replaced by a new grubby hut at the other end of the turnstiles. It seemed to serve as a place for its incumbent to entertain his pals - not sure whether they were CIE employees or not.

The Down Rosslare served the Down platform - causing people to have to drag their luggage over the bridge. Is it really impossible for CIE to show some consideration to their passengers over perceived operational requirements? The train was quite busy and I was fortunate to get a seat in a quieter carriage - at least so I thought. However, a mother had a teething child with her that cried/screamed all the way to Enniscorthy and while I can cope with that having been there, others did not feel the same way. When the unfortunate mother had left the carriage ahead of me at Enniscorthy, remarks were made about that being the reason that they rarely took the train and wouldn't be again. Of course if we still had proper trains instead of short railcars that needn't be a problem.I note that the manufacturers plate has mysteriously reappeared on the signal cabin at Gorey - it spent some years in a garden in south Wexford - apparently.

I almost forgot, the Rail Gourmet trolley was molested by drunks who stole quite a lot of stock and the unfortunate steward was told by his superiors not serve anymore customers. It didn't affect me as it's several decades since I made that mistake. All in all a typical journey by Irish Rail punctuated by repetitive, bilingual announcements and platitudes from a company that couldn't give a fig for their customers.

Passenger information has rarely been easily got. The near ubiquity of smart phones must have been a godsend for the long tradition of surly responses for customer information - I remember how prising a copy of the printed timetable in times past usually involved the phrase "that costs 50p, you know" as if that was a good enough reason not to sell it to me. In the dying days of the printed full timetable I usually had to ask twice for it and confirm that, yes, indeed, I wanted the full timetable.

whisky_galore · 20-09-2016 4:52pm

You can hardly blame IE for the presence of a cranky infant, which you may encounter on bus, train or plane and they're hardly going to re-introduce a 'proper train' just so people can find refuge from them.

I think the smartphone will be the death knell of the printed timetable, surely they had a poster advertising arrivals/departure?

Del.Monte · 20-09-2016 5:58pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

You can hardly blame IE for the presence of a cranky infant, which you may encounter on bus, train or plane and they're hardly going to re-introduce a 'proper train' just so people can find refuge from them.

I think the smartphone will be the death knell of the printed timetable, surely they had a poster advertising arrivals/departure?

A lot of people don't have smartphones or want them. Do you suggest that I pull down the IE timetable off the wall and put it in my pocket. I didn't blame IE for the 'cranky' baby - just their tiny trains where there's no quite carriage, 1st class, or other means of avoiding same. As you're determined to dispute everything I post would you not just add me to your ignore list?

ClovenHoof · 20-09-2016 7:25pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

You can hardly blame IE for the presence of a cranky infant,

But it does bring up the point about the pathetic lack of Quite Carriages in Irish Rail. Try working on a train to Cork with a shower of screaming drunks.

man98 · 20-09-2016 7:32pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

I think the smartphone will be the death knell of the printed timetable, surely they had a poster advertising arrivals/departure?

I asked for a timetable in Maynooth a few months back, the fella smiled and said "You know it's all on your phone anyway?". No hand held timetables on display however. Usually there's plenty of timetables on offer in Wexford station, although I'd say the fact that the evening train to Dublin leaves later in the summer (meaning all timetables must be reissued) is a good enough reason not to stock them in most places in IÉ's mind.

Banjoxed · 20-09-2016 8:12pm

man98 wrote: »

I asked for a timetable in Maynooth a few months back, the fella smiled and said "You know it's all on your phone anyway?". No hand held timetables on display however. Usually there's plenty of timetables on offer in Wexford station, although I'd say the fact that the evening train to Dublin leaves later in the summer (meaning all timetables must be reissued) is a good enough reason not to stock them in most places in IÉ's mind.

Hasn't Maynooth got a history of Customer Service issues? I avoided buying tickets there when I used the station so no surprise that you got The Smartness.

XPS_Zero · 20-09-2016 8:57pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

A lot of people don't have smartphones or want them. Do you suggest that I pull down the IE timetable off the wall and put it in my pocket. I didn't blame IE for the 'cranky' baby - just their tiny trains where there's no quite carriage, 1st class, or other means of avoiding same. As you're determined to dispute everything I post would you not just add me to your ignore list?

Oh we have Premier ICR carriages that could serve as a quiet carriage for a small premium.

IR being IR of course, though you occasionally see one on the Galway route 90% of them are parked collecting dust

end of the road · 20-09-2016 11:14pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

I had reason to take the train from Enniscorthy to Bray and back yesterday, and faced into the journey with some trepidation given it was the day of the GAA Final. Getting the afternoon train at least meant I would miss fans traveling up for the game but the return might be different.

No pocket timetables available at Enniscorthy - haven't been any for months apparently.

No problem in the Up direction. The station at Bray is the same miserable kip that it has been for years. Pub still closed. The bookstall that Dick Fearn assured me had been closed for operational reasons, and was needed by the company, is now a coffee takeaway. The board's servant in the ticket office was unhelpful and also had NO pocket timetables.

The grubby hut beside the ticket turnstiles had been replaced by a new grubby hut at the other end of the turnstiles. It seemed to serve as a place for its incumbent to entertain his pals - not sure whether they were CIE employees or not.

The Down Rosslare served the Down platform - causing people to have to drag their luggage over the bridge. Is it really impossible for CIE to show some consideration to their passengers over perceived operational requirements? The train was quite busy and I was fortunate to get a seat in a quieter carriage - at least so I thought. However, a mother had a teething child with her that cried/screamed all the way to Enniscorthy and while I can cope with that having been there, others did not feel the same way. When the unfortunate mother had left the carriage ahead of me at Enniscorthy, remarks were made about that being the reason that they rarely took the train and wouldn't be again. Of course if we still had proper trains instead of short railcars that needn't be a problem.I note that the manufacturers plate has mysteriously reappeared on the signal cabin at Gorey - it spent some years in a garden in south Wexford - apparently.

I almost forgot, the Rail Gourmet trolley was molested by drunks who stole quite a lot of stock and the unfortunate steward was told by his superiors not serve anymore customers. It didn't affect me as it's several decades since I made that mistake. All in all a typical journey by Irish Rail punctuated by repetitive, bilingual announcements and platitudes from a company that couldn't give a fig for their customers.

all and all the usual nonsense on that line. but we must not allow IE drive us away, they're will be no surrender!!!!!!!!

man98 · 20-09-2016 11:24pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

Hasn't Maynooth got a history of Customer Service issues? I avoided buying tickets there when I used the station so no surprise that you got The Smartness.

I have a leap card, I just needed the timetable. No idea about a track record on this stuff, but they didn't open the station until 2 minutes before the train arrived on the platform one Sunday morning I used it. All in all, perhaps not the best of service but it was more convenient for me at the time. Certainly a few sour grapes in the punnet, but overall I find Irish Rail staff to be nice and helpful.

LXFlyer · 21-09-2016 9:02pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Oh we have Premier ICR carriages that could serve as a quiet carriage for a small premium.

IR being IR of course, though you occasionally see one on the Galway route 90% of them are parked collecting dust

For the second time - the ICR sets are not parked for 90% of the time - they are all in use every single day, including the five car sets.

Just because you see them laying over between trips does not mean they're not being used. There are more trains required during the morning and evening peak times, but most are out all day long.

tabbey · 22-09-2016 12:05am

man98 wrote: »

I asked for a timetable in Maynooth a few months back, the fella smiled and said "You know it's all on your phone anyway?". No hand held timetables on display however. Usually there's plenty of timetables on offer in Wexford station, although I'd say the fact that the evening train to Dublin leaves later in the summer (meaning all timetables must be reissued) is a good enough reason not to stock them in most places in IÉ's mind.

I also have no smart phone.

Several months ago, I asked in Connolly about timetable leaflets, I was told that new ones would be available in "about two weeks".

Last week I was in France, and there were no timetable leaflets in most stations. Last year, I was there in October, and the timetable racks were full for every route, perhaps they were revised each October.
My main fear is that CIE and SNCF may be discontinuing these leaflets, about six years after CIE dropped the network booklet.

Whatever about Irish Rail timetables on their website, SNCF is a disaster, DB was better for French rail services.
There is no substitute for a proper timetable, preferably on paper.

n97 mini · 22-09-2016 12:48pm

man98 wrote: »

I asked for a timetable in Maynooth a few months back.

Most of the stations on the line have large stainless steel display boards for showing timetables. They've been empty for at least 5 years!

People unfamiliar with the station may also not realise that there is a real time board as in many cases they're installed at a poor location. Why couldn't these have been put at the platform entrance? Maintenance can be an issue, which doesn't seem to be the case in DART stations, go figure.

I pity the tourist/non-local trying to use the Maynooth line.

man98 · 22-09-2016 6:43pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Most of the stations on the line have large stainless steel display boards for showing timetables. They've been empty for at least 5 years!

People unfamiliar with the station may also not realise that there is a real time board as in many cases they're installed at a poor location. Why couldn't these have been put at the platform entrance? Maintenance can be an issue, which doesn't seem to be the case in DART stations, go figure.

I pity the tourist/non-local trying to use the Maynooth line.

I was using it for a week's work and my phone was playing up and wifi was patchy so it was much more convenient to have a solid timetable, which I did get in the end. I do make use of the real time boards but they're useless if you're not in the station or have to change trains.

Quackster · 22-09-2016 7:04pm

Whatever about pre-printed timetables, ticket-office staff should be able to print off pdfs of timetables on request - it's not exactly rocket science.

Of course, that would require a customer-centric corporate culture...

Del.Monte · 22-09-2016 7:20pm

Quackster wrote: »

Whatever about pre-printed timetables, ticket-office staff should be able to print off pdfs of timetables on request - it's not exactly rocket science.

Of course, that would require a customer-centric corporate culture...

To do that would mean that the staff would have to stop reading their newspaper, texting or whatever...

Itssoeasy · 22-09-2016 8:11pm

Quackster wrote: »

Whatever about pre-printed timetables, ticket-office staff should be able to print off pdfs of timetables on request - it's not exactly rocket science.

Of course, that would require a customer-centric corporate culture...

Print off PDF timetable ? IR can't put the drawings for the Kent station up in something useful.

5rtytry56 · 23-09-2016 11:03am

Title of thread should be:
GRITTY Railway Journeys on Irish Rail.

- here in Ireland:

...Romantic railways are dead and gone,
They're with poor Dargan in the grave...

Stephen15 · 24-09-2016 12:29am

Why don't all stations in ireland have simple easy to printed timetables similar to this one in italy ie timtables are usually useless and confusing

Vic_08 · 24-09-2016 2:26am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Why don't all stations in ireland have simple easy to printed timetables similar to this one in italy

They do.

Stephen15 wrote: »

ie timtables are usually useless and confusing

I asked the last moaner to explain what part of IE timetables they find deficient and surprise, got no answer.

I'm asking you the same question.

Stephen15 · 24-09-2016 1:43pm

Vic_08 wrote: »

They do.

I asked the last moaner to explain what part of IE timetables they find deficient and surprise, got no answer.

I'm asking you the same question.

Well firstly most I've seen don't you have to go looking for most stations in italy the first you see in the station is a clear timetable here the print is too small and you have to go looking for it.

IE 222 · 24-09-2016 6:48pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Well firstly most I've seen don't you have to go looking for most stations in italy the first you see in the station is a clear timetable here the print is too small and you have to go looking for it.

You only notice it cause you went looking for it. Very few people turn up at a station not known in advance when the train is due. Most Irish rail stations display the timetable at the entrance.

Stephen15 · 24-09-2016 7:13pm

IE 222 wrote: »

You only notice it cause you went looking for it. Very few people turn up at a station not known in advance when the train is due. Most Irish rail stations display the timetable at the entrance.

Here's the timetable board in hueston station not half as good as in italy in this picture all the timetables have been taken by commuters why they just have one large printed timetable instead of leaflets which can run out.

IE 222 · 24-09-2016 8:21pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Here's the timetable board in hueston station not half as good as in italy in this picture all the timetables have been taken by commuters why they just have one large printed timetable instead of leaflets which can run out.

That's not a timetable board. That's the pocket tables which could of been emptied for various reasons. Two completely different comparisons you have shown there.

Del.Monte · 24-10-2016 5:19pm

Traveled to Bray and back again on Sunday - uneventful trip in both directions. However, the onboard announcements really grind my gears. No less than 14 in each direction if you count the bilingual nature of them and they are completely OTT. I suppose I should be grateful that they aren't in Polish - yet!

However, it is at Bray that my complaint is this time. On arriving back at the station for the evening train I was witness to an altercation between two very large Eastern European security men and a piece of pond life that had possibly been a human at some point. Eventually he was 'persuaded' to leave the premises but no sign of the Gardai and he was free to molest anybody unfortunate enough to encounter him. The security men's approach was a bit like "Netwatch" (you in the blue hoodie) making Ireland a safer place or just moving the problem on.

I needn't have worried as the unwell individual made a bee line for the station car park where he broke into a car and the security men returned to the scene and sat on him until the Gardai finally arrived. Bray station is not a place to linger! Incidentally, would it not be possible for CIE to get in a pest controller to remove/liquidate the pigeons within the station? I'll do it for them - if they pay me.

Stephen15 · 24-10-2016 8:31pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Traveled to Bray and back again on Sunday - uneventful trip in both directions. However, the onboard announcements really grind my gears. No less than 14 in each direction if you count the bilingual nature of them and they are completely OTT. I suppose I should be grateful that they aren't in Polish - yet!

However, it is at Bray that my complaint is this time. On arriving back at the station for the evening train I was witness to an altercation between two very large Eastern European security men and a piece of pond life that had possibly been a human at some point. Eventually he was 'persuaded' to leave the premises but no sign of the Gardai and he was free to molest anybody unfortunate enough to encounter him. The security men's approach was a bit like "Netwatch" (you in the blue hoodie) making Ireland a safer place or just moving the problem on.

I needn't have worried as the unwell individual made a bee line for the station car park where he broke into a car and the security men returned to the scene and sat on him until the Gardai finally arrived. Bray station is not a place to linger! Incidentally, would it not be possible for CIE to get in a pest controller to remove/liquidate the pigeons within the station? I'll do it for them - if they pay me.

Bray station is a dump. They made a few improvements there recently like putting in a much needed footbridge and new ticket barriers on to the seafront but it's the main station building and surrounding area need a good face lift in fact forget that the town as whole needs a good face lift it makes Dun Laoghaire look like a pretty decent town.

Infini · 24-10-2016 8:46pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

To do that would mean that the staff would have to stop reading their newspaper, texting or whatever...

Or management actually providing the staff the tools for that tbh...... C_C

Realisticaly they might've just stopped printing them because of cost savings as much as it is annoying they keep the timetables up on the wall at least for information as well as online to be printed off. Such is the way things have gone.

Del.Monte · 28-10-2016 9:43pm

Enniscorthy . Connolly - Enniscorthy today - Friday 28th October.

In the Up direction journey okay except for the annoying announcements previously referred to.

8.04 ex.Enniscorthy - almost empty arriving from Rosslare Harbour.
10 passengers at Enniscorthy - two at least were OAPs.

I can't remember the last time that I saw any marketing of the train in local Wexford newspapers.

13.36 ex.Connolly - a four piece 29000 series DMU - why? I could see two ICRs stored at Connolly.

People standing all the way to Gorey. Announcement made that the Dining Car (sic) trolley was at the front of the train and to make your way there - presumably due to people standing throughout the train. It did arrive at my seat just south of Arklow. No heat whatsover in my carriage.

€27.70 return. Bargain not! It is totally unacceptable for CIE to continue to use Commuter DMUs for inter-city services. I will be writing to Mr.Franks and reporting back here. No checker on return service either.

end of the road · 28-10-2016 10:52pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Enniscorthy . Connolly - Enniscorthy today - Friday 28th October.

In the Up direction journey okay except for the annoying announcements previously referred to.

8.04 ex.Enniscorthy - almost empty arriving from Rosslare Harbour.
10 passengers at Enniscorthy - two at least were OAPs.

I can't remember the last time that I saw any marketing of the train in local Wexford newspapers.

13.36 ex.Connolly - a four piece 29000 series DMU - why? I could see two ICRs stored at Connolly.

People standing all the way to Gorey. Announcement made that the Dining Car (sic) trolley was at the front of the train and to make your way there - presumably due to people standing throughout the train. It did arrive at my seat just south of Arklow. No heat whatsover in my carriage.

€27.70 return. Bargain not! It is totally unacceptable for CIE to continue to use Commuter DMUs for inter-city services. I will be writing to Mr.Franks and reporting back here. No checker on return service either.

yeah, it would be laughable only it's reality. the lunchtime service down is always a 29k from my experience. they probably store the ICRS rather then send them on a run to rosslare like they are supposed to be doing just incase something happens to one of their pet services. good luck with writing to franks, sadly i suspect jot all will be done.

Del.Monte · 13-11-2016 11:28pm

I had the misfortune to avail of Irish Rail's 15.06 ex.Enniscorthy/Dublin service today (Sun.13th) and it was formed by a 29000 Commuter set - my son couldn't use his laptop as there were no sockets. People, some rowdy, standing from Gorey northwards. Tables too small to work on.

The return working was again a 29000 Commuter set. No heating, lots of engine noise - just like the Inter City radio ad about reading a book in peace and quiet.

Mercifully short station announcements with none of the smarmy Iarnrod Eireann welcomes you onboard and thank you for travelling with Iarnrod Eireann or seats are not for feet.

No mention of safety and evacuation notices - talk about inconsistency, and speaking of same the announcements continue to refer to the mysterious Rosslare Europort while the LED displays shows Rosslare Harbour.

At Rathdrum the station appears to have collapsed.

Back at Enniscorthy still no timetables and the box for best station awards is open outside the counter with forms still available - I thought the last dates for entries was the 31st October? I'm open to correction on this one.

All 1st World problems but not the proper way to develop rail business.

Fred Swanson · 13-11-2016 11:31pm

This post has been deleted.

end of the road · 14-11-2016 12:09am

Del.Monte wrote: »

I had the misfortune to avail of Irish Rail's 15.06 ex.Enniscorthy/Dublin service today (Sun.13th) and it was formed by a 29000 Commuter set - my son couldn't use his laptop as there were no sockets. People, some rowdy, standing from Gorey northwards. Tables too small to work on.

The return working was again a 29000 Commuter set. No heating, lots of engine noise - just like the Inter City radio ad about reading a book in peace and quiet.

Mercifully short station announcements with none of the smarmy Iarnrod Eireann welcomes you onboard and thank you for travelling with Iarnrod Eireann or seats are not for feet.

No mention of safety and evacuation notices - talk about inconsistency, and speaking of same the announcements continue to refer to the mysterious Rosslare Europort while the LED displays shows Rosslare Harbour.

2900 rattle traps are a very regular occurence i'm afraid. i suspect they will become even more regular now seeing as ICRS will need to be stolen to operate the phoenix park tunnel because IE won't operate 29s on them like they should, and which are suitable for suburban services unlike ICRS which struggle (from personal experience)

Del.Monte wrote: »

At Rathdrum the station appears to have collapsed.

i believe the building has been demolished unfortunately. rosslare strand will probably face the same fate i reccan. turn them into lumps of concrete with nothing just like rosslare euro hole.

Del.Monte wrote: »

Back at Enniscorthy still no timetables and the box for best station awards is open outside the counter with forms still available - I thought the last dates for entries was the 31st October? I'm open to correction on this one.

All 1st World problems but not the proper way to develop rail business.

sure, they are first world problems, but still they are issues and they need hi-lighting at every opportunity. for to long we have had to put up with bottom of the barrel while other places like mayo and even sligo have gotten improvements. okay they have their issues, sligo especially but i know which line i'd rather be able to use.
IE aren't interested in developing rail business on this line. never have been never will be, because shur tis always been the way, or gsr, or something something, god only knows.
the DTA/NTA/TFI/whatever it is they call themselves today aren't interested or bothered either and no doubt they will let them get on with running it into the ground before rewarding them by allowing them to shut and rip it up south of greystones. we all know what's coming and it's a case of when and not if. if we boycott the service they will shut quicker and if we stay they will continue to provide the lowest quality of service. they're is nobody to stand up for us rail users.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

indeed. everybody knows this but it's not going to change.

on a slightly different note i can't even remember the last time i saw a ticket checker on board either.

Del.Monte · 14-11-2016 7:01am

To be fair there was a checker in both directions, but when I see them all I can think of is the stupidity of removing train guards and associated revenue earning activities like Fastrack.

As for the 29000s, the comfort offered by them represents a serious decline in service to that offered by the tatty MkII's - which still had life in them. It's hard to believe that CIE were allowed to throw away vast quantities of perfectly sound locomotives and rolling stock, but then perhaps not. :rolleyes:

L1011 · 14-11-2016 9:03am

Many of the mark IIs were structurally unsound, rusting floors mostly. The Cravens were in better nick!

Del.Monte · 14-11-2016 11:54am

L1011 wrote: »

Many of the mark IIs were structurally unsound, rusting floors mostly. The Cravens were in better nick!

Yet the RPSI were able to purchase ex.CIE Mk.IIs and refurbish to approved mainline standard.

http://www.steamtrainsireland.com/carriages/belfast_steel.html

Seanmk1 · 14-11-2016 12:56pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Yet the RPSI were able to purchase ex.CIE Mk.IIs and refurbish to approved mainline standard.

http://www.steamtrainsireland.com/carriages/belfast_steel.html

The Mark 2s were acquired in two batches. The first batch was bought new from BREL as the good old Supertrain. The second batch was acquired from, I kid you not, Vic Berry's scrapyard in exchange for a bunch of old locos.

RPSI got the pick of the good ones, but many of the Mark 2s were in rag order.

The stainless steel Cravens will probably still be carrying passengers in a hundred years time.

L1011 · 14-11-2016 2:33pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Yet the RPSI were able to purchase ex.CIE Mk.IIs and refurbish to approved mainline standard.

http://www.steamtrainsireland.com/carriages/belfast_steel.html

One set cherry picked.

Del.Monte · 14-11-2016 2:54pm

L1011 wrote: »

One set cherry picked.

And CIE couldn't have 'cherry picked' a set or two for the Rosslare line. I'm well aware of the problems with the carriages but there was nothing that couldn't have been dealt with, but why bother as everybody's money is nobody's money.

Mark IIIs could have been kept......tin worm as well I suppose.

Vic_08 · 14-11-2016 3:18pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

And CIE couldn't have 'cherry picked' a set or two for the Rosslare line. I'm well aware of the problems with the carriages but there was nothing that couldn't have been dealt with, but why bother as everybody's money is nobody's money.

Mark IIIs could have been kept......tin worm as well I suppose.

From that list RPSI have only 2 regular MkII coaches plus the state coach, not exactly a full set.

They were rotten, largely due to insufficient maintenance. AFAIR even the refurbished set had only cosmetic work and was also badly corroded.

MkIII were all in serviceable condition when withdrawn unlike the MkIIs. They were not in brilliant condition especially in comparison to earlier build UK MkIIIs which have all had at least one full strip down and corrosion treatment. There will still be a significant fleet of 10 year older UK MkIII coaches in service in the late 2020s.

end of the road · 14-11-2016 4:14pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

To be fair there was a checker in both directions, but when I see them all I can think of is the stupidity of removing train guards and associated revenue earning activities like Fastrack.

i absolutely agree. staff on board long distance services is absolutely essential for good customer experience. which is why anyone who believes this should support the fight in the uk to protect on board and station staff. wasn't dick fern in charge when the guards were removed, or was it another lad from the uk? would explain a lot, seeing as we have done what the uk want to do, reduce the railway to nothing and charge over the odds for it.

Del.Monte wrote: »

As for the 29000s, the comfort offered by them represents a serious decline in service to that offered by the tatty MkII's - which still had life in them.

exactly. i would have taken the mkiis in their state by the end rather then the may as well be clapped out junk we were given as a replacement.

Del.Monte wrote: »

It's hard to believe that CIE were allowed to throw away vast quantities of perfectly sound locomotives and rolling stock, but then perhaps not.

i see why you might believe it to be hard to believe, but it actually isn't. the people who can stop CIE from behaving the way they do don't know anything about the railway or how it works. they don't know about rolling stock.

Del.Monte wrote: »

And CIE couldn't have 'cherry picked' a set or two for the Rosslare line. I'm well aware of the problems with the carriages but there was nothing that couldn't have been dealt with, but why bother as everybody's money is nobody's money.

and why bother when it's rosslare dublin/rosslare limerick, which they don't want, and who's users don't matter because tis always been the way.
they wanted to keep the cravens and mkiiis for their pet services, IE heuston. connolly CIE only long distance services will always be bottom of the barrel because shur tis always been the way. just as well translink have involvement in the enterprise as god knows how it would be if not.

Del.Monte wrote: »

Mark IIIs could have been kept......tin worm as well I suppose.

tin worm, they were orange and black, and they weren't shiny and new. shur all the problems will go away because we had the youngist fleet in europe, don't you know. well, they haven't.

L1011 · 14-11-2016 4:43pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

And CIE couldn't have 'cherry picked' a set or two for the Rosslare line. I'm well aware of the problems with the carriages but there was nothing that couldn't have been dealt with, but why bother as everybody's money is nobody's money.

Mark IIIs could have been kept......tin worm as well I suppose.

Keeping one or two totally dissimilar sets wouldn't be practical; particularly when they had fully solid Cravens and Mk IIIs.

Del.Monte · 14-11-2016 4:47pm

L1011 wrote: »

Keeping one or two totally dissimilar sets wouldn't be practical; particularly when they had fully solid Cravens and Mk IIIs.

Yes, but the Rosslare line went from MkIIs with tin worm to the awful 29000s with nothing in between and now the ICRs seem to be a dying breed on the line. Three fully trained signal men operate the ticket office (and avoid managers) at Enniscorthy these days despite the presence of the all singing, all dancing ticket machine in the car park! What a shambles!

Quackster · 14-11-2016 6:16pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Yes, but the Rosslare line went from MkIIs with tin worm to the awful 29000s with nothing in between and now the ICRs seem to be a dying breed on the line. Three fully trained signal men operate the ticket office (and avoid managers) at Enniscorthy these days despite the presence of the all singing, all dancing ticket machine in the car park! What a shambles!

Of all the lines into Dublin, the Rosslare line is the most constrained in terms of capacity and what can be done to increase that capacity.

IE clearly want to focus that limited capacity on much more lucrative DART/commuter services which is why we are where we are. That constraint doesn't exist in/out of Heuston.

It's pointless attacking IE for acting in their economic best-interests. The focus should be on the government and their level of subvention of rail.

Del.Monte · 14-11-2016 7:01pm

Quackster wrote: »

Of all the lines into Dublin, the Rosslare line is the most constrained in terms of capacity and what can be done to increase that capacity.

IE clearly want to focus that limited capacity on much more lucrative DART/commuter services which is why we are where we are. That constraint doesn't exist in/out of Heuston.

It's pointless attacking IE for acting in their economic best-interests. The focus should be on the government and their level of subvention of rail.

The subvention has zero impact on the Rosslare line which has been neglected for decades by a company devoid of joined-up-thinking rather than a lack of funds.

end of the road · 14-11-2016 7:32pm

Quackster wrote: »

Of all the lines into Dublin, the Rosslare line is the most constrained in terms of capacity and what can be done to increase that capacity.

but that's only relevant in terms of service frequency, not to the quality of service in general. i'm talking about the on board quality of service, which for me is the most important thing for now, along with stopping any further downgrading. yes i would like to see an increased frequency and that must be faught for, but for now improving the on board quality of the service will do. there is no excuse for the scraping of the barrel quality of service being provided on this line and others.

Quackster wrote: »

IE clearly want to focus that limited capacity on much more lucrative DART/commuter services which is why we are where we are.

apparently the intercity/regional lines bring in more income then the dart as strange as that sounds. i will have to do some digging to check that for sure.

Quackster wrote: »

That constraint doesn't exist in/out of Heuston.

they're is quite a constraint still out of heuston even with the 4 track. just look what happens when a train goes pop, the lot comes to a hault still.

Quackster wrote: »

It's pointless attacking IE for acting in their economic best-interests.

i don't agree. IE wouldn't know economic best interests if it came up and hit them on the backside. this is the same company that got rid of it's freight which it had lots of, because it thought shur it will be grand with the passenger traffic. current management might be trying to bring it back but it will be nothing like it was. once it's gone it's gone as they say.
i will happily attack IE for what they are responsible for, not what they aren't responsible for. i will keep doing so until such time as they start recognising they have a network to run and they bother to start improving it some little bit with what they do get. or at least improving the on board quality of service, which they can do very easily if they could be bothered as it can be done within existing resources.
a company who cares about it's economic best interests would be doing everything necessary to grow it's traffic. it's not doing that.

Quackster wrote: »

The focus should be on the government and their level of subvention of rail.

but it is . i and others have stated time and time again the subsidy needs to be increased. but no increases will change the reality that they're are certain lines IE wish to continue treating like rubbish and it's nothing to do with economics, but the fact "shur tis always been done that way" among other reasons. i get that sounds mad, and it is, but believe me CIE is a unique entity, and the unbelievable is believable where they are concerned..

Grandeeod · 14-11-2016 9:45pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

The subvention has zero impact on the Rosslare line which has been neglected for decades by a company devoid of joined-up-thinking rather than a lack of funds.

Exactly. Subvention has nothing to do with it. CIE wants to close this line south of Gorey. Planning to run your railway to the best of its ability costs nothing. Planning to run your railway to the best of the operators ability costs everything.

tabbey · 14-11-2016 10:49pm

L1011 wrote: »

Many of the mark IIs were structurally unsound, rusting floors mostly. The Cravens were in better nick!

This may be true of the MkII vehicles, but the Mk III trains were not unsound, they were withdrawn from mainline service for which they were designed, at half their natural life span.

tabbey · 14-11-2016 11:13pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Yes, but the Rosslare line went from MkIIs with tin worm to the awful 29000s with nothing in between and now the ICRs seem to be a dying breed on the line.

The Rosslare line has a number of physical disadvantages, Dun Laoghaire - Killiney, Bray Head, the extra five miles between Wicklow and Arklow, compared with road, the tortuous route along the river Slaney.

These have a detrimental effect on speed, IR can do little about it unless they win the Euro Billions!

However the line is a scenic jewel in IR's crown. With pleasant trains, a reasonable timetable and fair fares, it could be a moderately good revenue earner in it's own right, and a public relations boost for IR in general.

Regrettably, IR have chosen to run Rosslare trains behind all-stopper DART trains, slowing further the timetable.
Putting 2900 class trains on this route, completely destroys any prospect of exploiting the charms of the route. The 29s are unsuitable for any type of service. Only people who have no alternative,would choose to use them. They are an even drearier version of class 150 in the UK.

Put these 2900s on Adamstown to GCD, or Dunboyne to the city, people are only on these services for a short time. Give Rosslare passengers a decent train, since the demise of MkIIIs this means ICR sets.

L1011 · 14-11-2016 11:15pm

tabbey wrote: »

This may be true of the MkII vehicles, but the Mk III trains were not unsound, they were withdrawn from mainline service for which they were designed, at half their natural life span.

I know. I never said anything about the mkIIIs

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