Great Railway Journeys on CIE

exaisle

Oh...I'm all in favour of timetable posters...and the lack of them at all stations is unforgivable...

At least Michael Portillo in his flourescent jacket was visible... ;-)

n97 mini

exaisle wrote: »

At least Michael Portillo in his flourescent jacket was visible... ;-)

If a little lost...

Del.Monte

Yesterday I had to pay a very brief visit to Arklow - not something to be recommended to the tourist. A town in terminal decline and even worse than my own hometown, if that be possible.

It's a rare thing to be able to say that the Irish Rail station in a town is the highpoint of one's visit, but in truth it was. The staff really make an effort to have the place looking its best. Well tended flowerbeds, an interesting collection of exterior artefacts and an exceptional display of railway interest in the booking office.

However, that is where it ends: the station building resembles a Cold War bunker with grills on every window and obviously uninhabited. Given the housing crisis could CIE really not find a deserving tenant?

Then there's the welcoming poster display - a feature common to all CIE stations it seems, but total overkill in my opinion . The only thing missing is the word Verboten slapped up everywhere!









Whatever happened to Happy Holidays and CIE extolling people to take the train to exotic destinations?

Fred Swanson

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Del.Monte

Yet another trip to and from Connolly yesterday - uneventful and scenic, at least until entry into the graffiti zone north of Greystones.

However, at Bray in the Up direction the train was engulfed by seaside daytrippers and there was standing room only throughout the train. On the return leg the train was again engulfed - this time by French school students who got on in Tara Street. Both incidents did nothing to contribute to the 'inter-city' experience that the train should provide. In the Up direction this congestion could be reduced by having Bray as a 'set-down' stop only and possibly Dun Laoghaire too. In the Down direction Tara Street should be removed completely as a stop.

Apart from the scenery, the only redeeming feature of the trip was a very friendly/helpful ticket checker - and the sighting of a fox near Gorey.

I'm going to break-out soon and hit some really exotic locations which I will post here if I'm not site banned in the meantime.

Fred Swanson

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Del.Monte

I was one of those 'pesky peasants' when I lived in Bray and if the facility is there it will be used. In d'olden days the Rosslare departed from Platform.1. in Connolly and only those in the know boarded it there and then it reversed out before calling at Platform.5. - would be even easier today with railcar operation.

Bray needs to be set-down only in the Up direction - easily done by serving the Down platform and having the next northbound DART sitting at the Up platform. This would discourage most if not all 'pesky peasants'. Dun Laoghaire is more problematic but wouldn't be if SDO had been fitted to the 22000s. Tara Street needs eliminating in both directions.

L1011

As a picky peasant, I'm glad my line isn't signalled for wrong side running... Extra 40-60 minutes a day between worse times and stopping trains would put me back in the car

loyatemu

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I've literally never heard anyone call it the "fast dart" - it's only 5 mins faster to Bray anyway (used to be more when it had better headway and didn't stop in DL).

People will get on the first train that turns up going to their station. Certainly on the evening Wexford services the majority of passengers getting on in the City Centre are going to DL, Bray and Greystones. They're pseudo-commuter services & the service as a whole is probably only viable as it provides some extra rush hour capacity to those stations. If you cut them completely it would be more comfortable for people going further south because the train would be half empty.

Banjoxed

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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:D

I'm nabbing that as my signature!

Stephen15

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The train should have no stops between Bray and Connolly.

You often here the pesky peasants of Bray describe the Rosslare train as the "fast Dart" there purely for their convenience.

It has been suggested many times that certain trains should be set down only/pick up only at certain stops but this has offended the proletariat who think they should have private express services.

Make them pay extra to use the Rosslare service, do not have leap cards valid on the service and have ticket checks between CC and Bray. The Rosslare is intercity and I believe there should be mandatory seat reservations on these services.

LXFlyer

Due to the half hourly DART service to Greystones, there are only two paths in each hour available for a Rosslare train to travel between Bray and Greystones, each of which must be directly behind a DART.

There is no other way of scheduling it.

Therefore stopping at Tara Street, Pearse and Dun Laoghaire adds no extra time to the journey.

People need to accept the reality that since the M11 was developed and both Bus Eireann and Wexford Bus improved their offerings on the route using the motorway, with the best will in the world the railway will always now play second fiddle to them.

The diversion inland via Rathdrum and the fact that they have to share track space with the DART, with no scope for looping facilities along that section of route, means that the Rosslare line cannot compete on journey times with the bus alternatives for points south of Wicklow.

It is at this point, as another poster commented, a pseudo-commuter service - one look at the weekday timetable will tell you that. That's where the services are focussed.

The best future for the line is for it to develop the commuter potential, and for it to be marketed as a tourist route. The notion that it is a strategically important Intercity service has I'm afraid gone, given the competition from the motorway. Short of building a brand new rail alignment, that isn't going to change.

end of the road

if i was a betting man i'd bet the whole lot could be re-scheduled and sorted out to make things a bit better for all if the will was there to do it. i wonder would it be done if it was heuston services in the same situation.
wexford bus and the m11 are competition but that is no excuse for the failings of the railway, which are on IE. as a user of the service for years the service was a lot faster when it didn't stop between bray and connolly. dart/wexford bus/m11 are not an excuse for anything in my book apart from improving the service in any way that can be done to attract business. but then again seeing as nobody is bothered then why would anyone who can make things happen bother either.

LXFlyer

end of the road wrote: »

if i was a betting man i'd bet the whole lot could be re-scheduled and sorted out to make things a bit better for all if the will was there to do it. i wonder would it be done if it was heuston services in the same situation.
wexford bus and the m11 are competition but that is no excuse for the failings of the railway, which are on IE. as a user of the service for years the service was a lot faster when it didn't stop between bray and connolly. dart/wexford bus/m11 are not an excuse for anything in my book apart from improving the service in any way that can be done to attract business. but then again seeing as nobody is bothered then why would anyone who can make things happen bother either.

Again, the 30 minute DART frequency to/from Greystones is the game changer, along with the core 15 minute DART frequency between Bray and Howth Junction.

It is not physically possible to schedule the Rosslare services any faster between Greystones and Connolly - you can bet all you like, but the Intercity has to follow a DART - that's the only way it can be done. The stops between Bray and Connolly make no difference to the overall journey time as a result.

The line out of Heuston has considerably more space around it and that facilitated the four tracking - there is no space between Connolly and Bray for anything similar.

end of the road

loyatemu wrote: »

I've literally never heard anyone call it the "fast dart" - it's only 5 mins faster to Bray anyway (used to be more when it had better headway and didn't stop in DL).

People will get on the first train that turns up going to their station. Certainly on the evening Wexford services the majority of passengers getting on in the City Centre are going to DL, Bray and Greystones. They're pseudo-commuter services & the service as a whole is probably only viable as it provides some extra rush hour capacity to those stations. If you cut them completely it would be more comfortable for people going further south because the train would be half empty.

the first and second evening services are decently used south of the suburban area so wouldn't be "half empty" the late service can be variable but then again it always was since the severe downgrading in 2004 of journey times and onboard environment and the subsiquent shift to car and bus which weren't any better then the rail offering for years. even now as we all know (all though it's now across the board) the onboard environment has lots of room to improve.

loyatemu

end of the road wrote: »

the first and second evening services are decently used south of the suburban area so wouldn't be "half empty" the late service can be variable but then again it always was since the severe downgrading in 2004 of journey times and onboard environment and the subsiquent shift to car and bus which weren't any better then the rail offering for years. even now as we all know (all though it's now across the board) the onboard environment has lots of room to improve.

I use the 1735 ex-Connolly every day, which is the busiest Wexford service in the evening. It is half empty when I get off in Greystones, and I'd say half of the remaining passengers disembark at Wicklow.

The Dart services either side of it are jammed solid so if you threw commuters off the IC you'd just be creating problems elsewhere.

end of the road

loyatemu wrote: »

I use the 1735 ex-Connolly every day, which is the busiest Wexford service in the evening. It is half empty when I get off in Greystones, and I'd say half of the remaining passengers disembark at Wicklow.

i also use that service from time to time or the 1 before and have done so for years and there would be good loadings south as people do get on and off from stations south of greystones. so not half empty over all.

loyatemu wrote: »

The Dart services either side of it are jammed solid so if you threw commuters off the IC you'd just be creating problems elsewhere.

no you wouldn't. you would be putting people back on the services they should be using and freeing up space to attract more patronage (if the railway did things properly that is)

it's up to IE to insure it has capacity on it's services. it can't seem to manage that in terms of connolly at least.

Del.Monte

Today I undertook a great bus journey (by Wexford Bus) thanks to CIE removing its Enniscorthy/Waterford rail service followed by the removal of their direct bus service.

A tedious journey involving actual bus travel in each direction of one and a half hours (3 hours in total) and about another three hours hanging about waiting for connections. Not to be undertaken lightly but it had to be done. €16 for a monthly return by Wexford Bus - cheaper than BE - I think and staff more friendly and obliging.



Highpoints of the trip included a tin of coke in Waterford, a photograph of the former Ardree Hotel (looking a lot better these days) and a chat with a young lad on the bus who I advised to emigrate as soon as he finishes college.

BoatMad

end of the road wrote: »

the first and second evening services are decently used south of the suburban area so wouldn't be "half empty" the late service can be variable but then again it always was since the severe downgrading in 2004 of journey times and onboard environment and the subsiquent shift to car and bus which weren't any better then the rail offering for years. even now as we all know (all though it's now across the board) the onboard environment has lots of room to improve.

correct , the shift from MK3 to railcars was all justified by cost saving, but you can't cost save a business into profit, you actually have to " make sales " i.e. provide something the customer wants

IE have forgotten that basic tenant , the service runs for its internal justification not its customers

Grandeeod

Del.Monte wrote: »

Today I undertook a great bus journey (by Wexford Bus) thanks to CIE removing its Enniscorthy/Waterford rail service followed by the removal of their direct bus service.

A tedious journey involving actual bus travel in each direction of one and a half hours (3 hours in total) and about another three hours hanging about waiting for connections. Not to be undertaken lightly but it had to be done. €16 for a monthly return by Wexford Bus - cheaper than BE - I think and staff more friendly and obliging.



Highpoints of the trip included a tin of coke in Waterford, a photograph of the former Ardree Hotel (looking a lot better these days) and a chat with a young lad on the bus who I advised to emigrate as soon as he finishes college.

Delighted to see you slumming it on a bus.:D

I only remember that hotel when it was a Jury's joint. Back then it was all coke and hookers.:eek:

On a serious note, you were quite right to advise the young lad to emigrate.

BoatMad

I only remember that hotel when it was a Jury's joint. Back then it was all coke and hookers.

its planned to be renovated and reopened

Fred Swanson

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tabbey

BoatMad wrote: »

its planned to be renovated and reopened

I stayed there about 30 years ago, when it was quite plush. Some years ago I was shocked at how shabby it had become when I spent a night on spec.

It has now been a blot on the landscape for several years, a shame as it is in a commanding position, even if it does not have a good view of the railway (or should that now be called a siding, to Belview).

BoatMad

r should that now be called a siding, to Belview

It has a good view of Waterford Halt too !!!!

tabbey

BoatMad wrote: »

It has a good view of Waterford Halt too !!!!

That would be from the corridor side I suppose. When I stayed I think all the bedrooms faced east.

tabbey

BoatMad wrote: »

Waterford Halt!

You have hit the nail on the head!

Fifty years ago Waterford had eight platforms, platforms 1&2 were lifted for car parking, then there were six. 7&8 went the same way at the west end of the station, 3&4 were closed after the rockslide, although the platform track remains as the Belview siding. In spite of the latter, platform 6 is also trackless, probably because 5 was extended.

Such a radical contraction is phenomenal. The buffet has also long gone, although the shop does good business for much of the day.

The real question is what activity goes on in the offices on the upper floors of the 1967 building. At that time there was freight, parcel traffic as well as paper tickets, Edmondson tickets etc, all needing accounting and so forth. Today there is only passenger traffic with tickets largely issued by machine.

Fred Swanson

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Del.Monte

Back to my pet hate - timetables.

Below are the current Wexford Bus and IE (Connolly/Rosslare) timetables.

The Wexford bus timetable is a folded A4, glossy job set out clearly and easy to read, and the IE one is a cheap, poorly designed, bilingual, double-sided effort.

The Wexford Bus leaflet has their connecting services too unlike IE's which ignores Bus Eireann's connections to Waterford now that IE have axed their service.

The IE one doesn't even clearly announce what route it's for, and guess which one is not available in local hotels, visitor attractions or even the tourist office?

L1011

Realistically, paper timetables are used by an extremely small number of people from a few specific cohorts at this stage. There is a reason airlines stopped doing them - as have most private bus operators.

There are far more pressing issues with Irish Rail and of the potential problems I wouldn't see paper timetables as being worth a second of effort.

end of the road

when a smallish bus operator is putting in some effort, there is no excuse for a large organisation like irish rail not to put in some effort.
a radical idea would be to deal with the big and small issues at the same time, most people after all are capible of solving multiple issues (well, maybe we are a minority in ireland in that regard)