End Irish anthem at GAA matches, demands DUP minister

McArmalite · 24-03-2008 8:22pm

Pathfinder wrote: »

A backward state ?

a bit much coming from a state (the republic), which until the 80s banned birth control, a state which is founded on sectarianism (legally as well as schools and hospitals), where it still takes 7 years to get divorced, and where until 10 years ago playboy magazine was illegal.

As the GAA takes money from unionist tax payers, it has a duty to make itself more accommodating.

Well a wee statelet that has probably the most well known bigot and demagogue in the world, Paisley, as it's head says it all doesn't it .

Just to show how backward and down right niggardly that unionism is, see this little piece from the Irish News recently - " North Down DUP councillor John Montgomery and his party colleagues are objecting to the Marks & Spencer whipping cream being labelled as Irish and not Northern Irish. Mr Montgomery has accused the supermarket of mislabelling and shortchanging local farmers. M&S refused to comment........ "

" As the GAA takes money from unionist tax payers, it has a duty to make itself more accommodating. " Showing your old unionist instincts again, and this from the fella, who if I remember rigtly, claims to be from England but with an Irish father and mother, hence his interest in things Irish :rolleyes: ( Notice how all those who express unionist views always hide behind some mask of my parents are from Ireland, I'm English but I live in Dublin etc, etc. )

The vast majority of GAA supporters would not believe the Amhrán na bhFiann and flying the tricolour should not be dropped in the six counties to appase the Poots and his breed. But having a unionist mindset you'd ofcourse beleive that the rump minority in the north east of the country should dictate to nationalists what they should and should not regard as their identity. The majority of GAA supporters couldn't care less about Poots and co.

Pathfinder · 24-03-2008 8:39pm

As unionist tax payers help fund the GAA the GAA must do more to accommodate the unionist poulation. Simple as that.

That includes dropping a song many regard as offensive and whos lyrics are seen by unionists as anti English/racist/antagonistic/hostile.

Hagar · 24-03-2008 9:00pm

I would be intrigued to hear of the funding that you mention.
Can you provide some details, amounts, links etc? Thanks.

Pathfinder · 24-03-2008 11:00pm

Hagar wrote: »

I would be intrigued to hear of the funding that you mention.
Can you provide some details, amounts, links etc? Thanks.

http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/pssst-past-it-on-belgian-gaa/

"British Tax payers has paid over Â£10 million pounds to this so-called sports organisation which held a republican hunger strike rally at Casement Park on the 13th August 2006, which commemorated the deaths of IRA Criminals.
The GAA has called many of it’s sporting grounds after IRA murderers. Last year GAA president Nickey Brennan opened a new GAA ground in Dungiven, named after an IRA criminal Kevin Lynch. This should not be the actions of a sporting organisation, especially when I, as a British tax payer actually funds this sectarian organisation.
The sectarian nature of the GAA is clear to be seen at the very top of the organisation. That sectarian attitude filters down to it’s grass-root supporters who recently went on a rampage through Lurgan, when they attacked the town’s police station and destroyed many Protestant homes and properties, after a GAA game.
The GAA must change their sectarian attitude and reach out to Protestants, because when they openly support IRA terrorists they fuel the violence against anything British and Protestant. As a sports organisation funded by the British taxpayer it shouldn’t be naming grounds and teams after murderers. They should stop the hero worship of IRA Criminals at once. "

It also accepts money from the British national lottery.Therefore it should accommodate the whole community.

total of 52 projects across Northern Ireland have so far been awarded grants totalling £2,571,045 through the Big Lottery Fund’s £5m Improving Community Buildings programme.

The programme aims to support projects to refurbish, modernise or convert community venues such as community halls and centres, making them more available to local people.

Full list of successful projects:

Ballinacor Rural Development Association, £40,034
Ballydonaghey Rural Community Association, £38,875
Ballygrainey Rural Development Association, £48,556
Ballynafeigh Community Development Association, £50,000
Bann Valley Community Association, £50,000
Blackie Community Groups Association, £50,000
Brookmount Cultural and Education Society, £50,000
Burnside Ulster Scots Society, £40,034
Cancer Lifeline, £49,751
Carnlea Orange Hall Management Committee, £50,000
Carntogher Community Association, £49,786
Carricklongfield Cultural Group, £47,047
Catholic Church of Coalisland, £50,000
Cavanacarragh Community Association, £50,000
Cookstown and Dungannon Women’ s Aid, £50,000
Crossgar War Memorial Hall, £48,475
Down Parish Church, £48,973
Dunamoney Community Group, £49,850
Dunsford Cross Community Resource Centre, £50,000
Edenderry Community Development Association, £50,000
Erin’s Own Gaelic Athletic Club, £50,000
Fardross Heritage and Vision Society, £49,973
Gilford Community Club, £49,265
Gortaclare Development and Cultural Association, £50,000
Hartford Community Development and Cultural Association, £50,000
Holy Trinity and St Silas with Immanuel, £50,000
Iveagh Cultural Association, £50,000
Katesbridge Community Association, £46,000
Kids Together West Belfast, £49,673
Leafair Community Association, £47,639
Lisnaward Rural Association, £26,033
Longhkillygreen Hall Association, £50,000
Magheralin Heritage Cultural and Community Association, £50,000
Marlagh Education and Cultural Group, £50,000
Melvin Cultural and Historical Association, £50,000
Mossley Heritage and Development Association , £50,000
Movenis Area Community Association , £50,000
Nerve Centre Limited, £50,000
Newmills Cultural Group, £48,998
Newtownstewart Leisure Complex Ltd, £26,434
Pearse OG GAA Club, £45,000
Randalstown Ulster Scots Cultural Society, £50,000
Rathlin Island Development and Community Association, £50,000
Royal British Legion – Cullybackey, £45,885
Schomberg Society Kilkeel Ltd, £42,780
Southern Area Hospice Services, £50,000
St Patrick’s Youth Club, Keady, £49,950
Tassagh Cultural Rural Neighbourhood Group, £37,002
The Fews Community Association, £44,397
The Fews Community Association, £44,397
The Warren Cultural and Education Society, £50,000
Tullylish Gaelic Athletic Club, £50

Pathfinder · 24-03-2008 11:13pm

http://www.newrydemocrat.com/news/story/?trs=idqlaucw&cat=news

Concern at GAA funding
by Patrick Ryan

NEWRY and Mourne Council has once again been accused of discriminating in favour of the GAA.

That was the view of Mournes councillor Henry Reilly, who questioned why the Council is in such a hurry to push through a motion giving £250,000 to Pairc Esler. It was also agreed to sell Gerry Brown Park to Newry Mitchel's GFC, the previous week, for £200,000.

The Pairc Esler motion was passed at Monday night's meeting of Newry and Mourne Council when the issue was originally listed as number 20 on the agenda. UKIP councillor Reilly demanded to know why this was the case.

Deputy Mayor Charlie Casey said it had been bumped up to the top of the agenda at the request of SDLP councillor Gary Stokes, who had wished to attend a Newry City football match and asked that the motion be dealt with at the start of the meeting to accommodate him.

"It is extremely unfair the way this has been pushed through by the Council's management team," said councillor Reilly.

"It is scandalous what has happened here tonight. It is a scandalous way for the Council to behave and all I am saying is that it must be great to be part of the GAA."

The £250,000 is expected to secure the use of Pairc Esler three times a year for Council events

http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=47174

The Council Development Committee decided to ask for clearance from the DOE to hand the eight acres of land over to the Sean Dolans GAA club so that they can expand. The plan has been opposed by unionist councillors.

The club was offered the land situated in the Creggan some time ago but didn’t have the funding to develop it.

However, the Sports Council has offered funding of £225,000 to be used on development, on the condition that they can get the ground for free.

John Meehan, Director of Development at the council, said after a meeting there had been a "discussion in detail about the rationale which would underpin the request which would go to the Department asking them to approve the land transfer at less than market value, or in this case at nil cost. There had been broad understanding about the value of the project in terms of wider community, social regeneration."

He also added that it was designated under the area plan for recreational and community use and the council had no plans to change that and if it did draw up a scheme for its use it would have "significant revenue implications."

Club chairman Hugh Brady welcomed the decision, saying that the land was worth an "absolute fortune" to the club and the community.

But Gregory Campbell, DUP MP for East Londonderry said the council was not adopting the same approach to other sporting clubs.

"The west bank proceeds with a Gaelic club now, at a quarter of a million pounds, with no benefit to the ratepayers whatsoever and handed over for nothing - that is not on."

K-9 · 24-03-2008 11:31pm

The problem there Pathfinder is that the Hunger Strikers where not criminals to a lot of people. Whether you disagree with that doesn't really matter. Alot of anti-H Block protesters would have been GAA members. If you find that distasteful, that is your problem.

Linfield would have some followers that I would find distasteful, doesn't mean I don't think the club shouldn't get Govt. funding.

I could also say that the sectarian nature of the DUP and their hatred of the GAA filtered down to the grassroots and GAA clubhouses got attacked. Doesn't mean it's true.

The GAA is the best supported sporting organisation in NI. That means they are entitled to Govt. funding. They provide facilities same as any other sport.

Hagar · 24-03-2008 11:34pm

That's very enlightening. It looks like Unionist politicians of all flavours have opposed the granting of funds all the way. Without doubt the people who use those organizations are also taxpayers and are ever bit as entitled as any other taxpayer to ask for and be granted funds by the relevant authorities. Or maybe Catholics / Nationalists are second class citizens still? It sort of looks that way.

I don't suppose Linfield were ever granted any taxpayers funds by any chance? Can you dig up figures for that?

Pathfinder · 24-03-2008 11:36pm

Seanies32 wrote: »

The problem there Pathfinder is that the Hunger Strikers where not criminals to a lot of people. Whether you disagree with that doesn't really matter. Alot of anti-H Block protesters would have been GAA members. If you find that distasteful, that is your problem.

Linfield would have some followers that I would find distasteful, doesn't mean I don't think the club shouldn't get Govt. funding.

I could also say that the sectarian nature of the DUP and their hatred of the GAA filtered down to the grassroots and GAA clubhouses got attacked. Doesn't mean it's true.

The GAA is the best supported sporting organisation in NI. That means they are entitled to Govt. funding. They provide facilities same as any other sport.

You cant on the one hand accept money from unionists and the lottery and on the other name stadiums after convicted terrorists, obviously it will create even more resentment.

The GAA needs to grow up.

Would you like if the NI FA named its stadium after Michael Stone ?

Hagar · 24-03-2008 11:40pm

Pathfinder wrote: »

Would you like if the NI FA named its stadium after Michael Stone ?

I know, lets propose that the Stadium be built on the site of the Maze Prison, sure that won't offend anyone would it?

Proposed by someone called Poots, now where have I heard that name before?

K-9 · 24-03-2008 11:46pm

They can call it what they want. I wouldn't like it, but it's up to them.

You may regard Kevin Lynch the same as Michael Stone, obviously some people in Dungiven disagree.

Actually Hagar, the GAA are seriously considering using the possible new stadium at the Maze. They have no problem with it whatsoever.

Pathfinder, do you think the GAA and it's members are sectarian?

Hagar · 24-03-2008 11:52pm

Seanies32 wrote: »

Actually Hagar, the GAA are seriously considering using the possible new stadium at the Maze. They have no problem with it whatsoever.

I realise it's being considered politics being what it is, I'm not convinced it will be accepted, it would be like building a team ground for the Isrealis on Auswitz. Just my opinion of course.

Fratton Fred · 24-03-2008 11:56pm

Hagar wrote: »

I realise it's being considered politics being what it is, I'm not convinced it will be accepted, it would be like building a team ground for the Isrealis on Auswitz. Just my opinion of course.

err, bit of an overstatement I think.

I think a sporting venue is ideal, sport should build bridges and would be a good symbol of reconciliation.

I do have to smile at the staunchly Republican GAA accepting money from the nasty old British imperialist Government. Politics, Sport and money. who said they don't go together eh:D

K-9 · 25-03-2008 12:01am

True. There was chat of a prison museum on the site. It's side issue and the site hasn't been picked yet, just wanted to point out that the vast majority of GAA members would have no major objection to it.

I know some people would be surprised that the GAA would even consider it, you know, being sectarian and all!

K-9 · 25-03-2008 12:09am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I think a sporting venue is ideal, sport should build bridges and would be a good symbol of reconciliation.

I do have to smile at the staunchly Republican GAA accepting money from the nasty old British imperialist Government. Politics, Sport and money. who said they don't go together eh:D

Some elements would be staunchly republican, the vast majority use it as an expression of identity and part of being Irish.

Some people get that mixed up with Republicanism.

Personally I used to laugh at staunchly loyalist hauliers registering lorries in the South to save money. Good luck to them though.

The GAA wouldn't see the British Govt. as imperialist. They just see a Govt. recognising the efforts the GAA make. For long enough it was unrecognised by them, the BBC etc.

Fratton Fred · 25-03-2008 1:20pm

Seanies32 wrote: »

Some elements would be staunchly republican, the vast majority use it as an expression of identity and part of being Irish.

Some people get that mixed up with Republicanism.

Personally I used to laugh at staunchly loyalist hauliers registering lorries in the South to save money. Good luck to them though.

The GAA wouldn't see the British Govt. as imperialist. They just see a Govt. recognising the efforts the GAA make. For long enough it was unrecognised by them, the BBC etc.

You're not implying that people's political beliefs go out the window for the sake of a few quid are you :eek::D

It's a shame the GAA can't just be a sporting organisation, which is what it is.

K-9 · 25-03-2008 1:36pm

Maybe the way of looking at it is, why does the British Govt. fund the GAA? Nobody forces them to give over the money!

The thing is Fratton Fred if it ceased to be anyway political tomorrow, people like Poots still wouldn't forget the past.

Fratton Fred · 25-03-2008 4:01pm

Seanies32 wrote: »

Maybe the way of looking at it is, why does the British Govt. fund the GAA? Nobody forces them to give over the money!

The thing is Fratton Fred if it ceased to be anyway political tomorrow, people like Poots still wouldn't forget the past.

I agree, although I'm not sure Poots is the problem.

K-9 · 25-03-2008 4:29pm

I agree the GAA needs to change in some ways, but also peoples perceptions of it needs to be willing to change to.

It has a past and a history, as have so many things that have links with NI. People need to understand and accept that. I think I remember reading somewhere that the Orange Order gets funding from the Government. Good luck to them! I don't expect it to change because of that either.

guinnessdrinker · 25-03-2008 5:12pm

I certainly wouldn't call the GAA staunchly republican. Certain elements within the (very large) organisiation maybe, but you couldn't say the same for every member and supporter of GAA sports! I know anytime me or my friends played gaelic football it wasn't to make a political statment. We played because it's a good game, nothing more, nothing less.

The GAA as amateur games go, should be free to apply for and recieve government grants wherever the sports are played. I don't see what the big issue there is.

The Orange Order received €250,000 already this year from the Irish government for the upkeep of Orange halls. They were entitled to apply for funding too just as the GAA is entitled to. Anyway even if the Orange Oreder were to end their ban on non protestants joining tomorrow, I can't see members of other religions flocking to join up.

Fratton Fred · 25-03-2008 5:27pm

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't call the GAA staunchly republican. Certain elements within the (very large) organisiation maybe, but you couldn't say the same for every member and supporter of GAA sports! I know anytime me or my friends played gaelic football it wasn't to make a political statment. We played because it's a good game, nothing more, nothing less.

The GAA as amateur games go, should be free to apply for and recieve government grants wherever the sports are played. I don't see what the big issue there is.

The Orange Order received €250,000 already this year from the Irish government for the upkeep of Orange halls. They were entitled to apply for funding too just as the GAA is entitled to. Anyway even if the Orange Oreder were to end their ban on non protestants joining tomorrow, I can't see members of other religions flocking to join up.

Everyone I know that is into Hurling is the same, it is about the game. But why is there a need to name everything after a dead "Hero". why not start naming things after great players, or people who have done a lot for the sport rather than someone who was shot in 1916.

As for the funding, they deserve it. They can be their own worst enemy at times, but I know our local club is great for getting large numbers of people to play a sport they may not normally play.

K-9 · 25-03-2008 6:09pm

They do name things after ex players etc.

They name parks after people who where shot in 1916 etc. because it's important to some clubs, areas etc. Doesn't really bother me if they do or don't. Maybe people should respect their views and rights to do it?

There was a match organised in memory of Aidan Mc Anespie. To many GAA members he was killed in very suspicious circumstances going to a GAA match. Some DUP members would see it differently.

walrusgumble · 25-03-2008 10:21pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You're not implying that people's political beliefs go out the window for the sake of a few quid are you :eek::D

It's a shame the GAA can't just be a sporting organisation, which is what it is.

do you not think removing rules such as banning members of the british army and old ruc (who had f&^k all respect for clubs like crossmaglen rangers over the years) is not steps to remove some of its suspected and misunderstood image and just become solely a sporting organisation?

if unionist actually had some distinct and indigneous culture like we have ie the gaa (as oppose to the orange orders - bloody hell mardi gra put on better marches - dour so and so's) you not think they would have been just as bad?

its time for the forward thinking gaa people be heard and continue promoting the games on a world wide bases, christ its better than some games like baseball and american football (games as ye know, american dominated games played and shown all over the world)

so ye take the money and run

walrusgumble · 25-03-2008 10:46pm

Pathfinder wrote: »

You cant on the one hand accept money from unionists and the lottery and on the other name stadiums after convicted terrorists, obviously it will create even more resentment.

The GAA needs to grow up.

Would you like if the NI FA named its stadium after Michael Stone ?

they can and will so get use to it there is a very sizeable portion of citizens who want the gaa and all it stands for there (you have a petty impression of what the gaa stand for)

if the maize becomes a stadium and if its for all the people of the north - best solution is to call it the george best memorial stadium, every one is happy

what the ifa do with their stadium is their business sure dont they disrespct nationalists who want to support them with gstq. - why? sure you will say ni is british - same as we say the gaa is irish, the orange order in the rep dont seem to have a problem taking our tax money,or when bertie gave paisley a bit of the boyne last year, do we whinge? no, we in the south just get on with more important things and see it as a stepping stone to further peace. pitty poots dont think the same, some pride swollowin has to be taken on both sides. maybe poots and co need to grow up! get use to it bhoy, cause unionism is never never never never going to both sides of their bread buttered no more!

, the gaa wont interfere - sure the republic will take pleasure to hammering the north in a soccer game up there then - good man - more incentive, lol

, how many nationalist actually publicly support northern ireland after the problems the likes of neil lennon and jimmy quinn have gone through? thats some way to threat your own players alright!

kreuzberger · 25-03-2008 11:52pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Everyone I know that is into Hurling is the same, it is about the game. But why is there a need to name everything after a dead "Hero". why not start naming things after great players, or people who have done a lot for the sport rather than someone who was shot in 1916.

As for the funding, they deserve it. They can be their own worst enemy at times, but I know our local club is great for getting large numbers of people to play a sport they may not normally play.

your an englishman . your country and its language and culture were not conquered and destroyed . Ours was , very thoroughly to the extent we cant even speak our own language anymore . Our ancestors realised this and sought to preserve what was left of our nation . Thats why they started the GAA
The GAA was not just an organisation dedicated to kicking a ball about , its a repository and advocate of national conciousness which persued that national consciousness through the medium of sport . Thats why it was very consciously created , thats why it has been maintained and attracts such ferocious loyalty . National consciousness obviously provides some people with a problem . But its their problem and not the GAAs . Im of the opinon bigots cannot be pandered to . Im also of the opinion neither should those who seek to eliminate and demonise Irish national consciousness for politically correct reasons be pandered to either . Because at the end of the day they are persuing a political agenda which is not the GAAs agenda and indeed is diametrically opposed to an agenda of nationhood and national consciousness. Irish national consciousness whether expressed through the medium of sport or politics will very naturally come into conflcit with an agenda that supports the occupation of the Irish nation by a foreign country . Trying to accomodate that agenda is not only an impossible task but contrary to the ethos of why the organisation was founded in the first place .
While its often demonised the majority of Irish people are proud of their patriots and are more than happy to name local branches of an organisation founded to defend our nation on a cultural level , to reaffirm its existence as a disytinct entity , after our nations patriots who physically foiught to do the exact same thing . It makes perfect sense from an Irish point of view , a dignified one at least .

Pathfinder · 26-03-2008 12:18am

kreuzberger wrote: »

your an englishman . your country and its language and culture were not conquered and destroyed . Ours was , very thoroughly to the extent we cant even speak our own language anymore . Our ancestors realised this and sought to preserve what was left of our nation . Thats why they started the GAA
The GAA was not just an organisation dedicated to kicking a ball about , its a repository and advocate of national conciousness which persued that national consciousness through the medium of sport . Thats why it was very consciously created , thats why it has been maintained and attracts such ferocious loyalty . National consciousness obviously provides some people with a problem . But its their problem and not the GAAs . Im of the opinon bigots cannot be pandered to . Im also of the opinion neither should those who seek to eliminate and demonise Irish national consciousness for politically correct reasons be pandered to either . Because at the end of the day they are persuing a political agenda which is not the GAAs agenda and indeed is diametrically opposed to an agenda of nationhood and national consciousness. Irish national consciousness whether expressed through the medium of sport or politics will very naturally come into conflcit with an agenda that supports the occupation of the Irish nation by a foreign country . Trying to accomodate that agenda is not only an impossible task but contrary to the ethos of why the organisation was founded in the first place .
While its often demonised the majority of Irish people are proud of their patriots and are more than happy to name local branches of an organisation founded to defend our nation on a cultural level , to reaffirm its existence as a disytinct entity , after our nations patriots who physically foiught to do the exact same thing . It makes perfect sense from an Irish point of view , a dignified one at least .

Your ignorance of history is astounding, did England not undergo a Norman invasion, was Saxon culture not decimated ?

Infact English was offically banned for 150 years by the Normans, famine killed 500,000 and the English became serfs.

Gaelic games are no more then a disneyland version of the Gaels, do you seriously believe the Gaels played field sports on a cut grass rectangle pitch with a football and rugbyposts.

You need to get real, for all you know some of your ancestors could have been those evil planters.

Irish history has been taught in the freestate as propaganda to reinforce independence.

kreuzberger · 26-03-2008 12:49am

Pathfinder wrote: »

Your ignorance of history is astounding, did England not undergo a Norman invasion, was Saxon culture not decimated ?

Infact English was offically banned for 150 years by the Normans, famine killed 500,000 and the English became serfs.

OK. The last time anybody invaded england and suppressed its language was almost 1000 years ago . I apologise profusely to all Limeys and recognise this deep wound upon their nation

Gaelic games are no more then a disneyland version of the Gaels, do you seriously believe the Gaels played field sports on a cut grass rectangle pitch with a football and rugbyposts.

no ?? Im afraid i dont understand what you are talking about . Has someone suggested they did ? Are you suggesting that sports should be played in the precise same manner today as they were in the middle ages ? Im quite confused as to what you are on about to be honest

You need to get real, for all you know some of your ancestors could have been those evil planters.

the "planters" as you refer to them are an integral part of our nation for centuries now , represented prominently on our national flag and indeed whose forebears were positively central to the revival of our national consciousness within the GAA and Gaelic league . Numerous GAA clubs are named after some of their most prominent . Indeed the Sam Maguire itself .You seem to be advancing a very sectarian argument that those from such an ancestral background somehow arent . As someone related to and educated my entire life alongside such people I find the inference quite offensive . Not to mention the despicable inference Id be offended if i found out i was related to one . Absolutely disgraceful .

Irish history has been taught in the freestate as propaganda to reinforce independence

But you now seem to have some sort of problem with Irish people being taught Irish hisotry in school? again im confused as to your point ?

walrusgumble · 26-03-2008 3:10am

kreuzberger wrote: »

Pathfinder wrote: »

OK. The last time anybody invaded england and suppressed its language was almost 1000 years ago . I apologise profusely to all Limeys and recognise this deep wound upon their nation

no ?? Im afraid i dont understand what you are talking about . Has someone suggested they did ? Are you suggesting that sports should be played in the precise same manner today as they were in the middle ages ? Im quite confused as to what you are on about to be honest

the "planters" as you refer to them are an integral part of our nation for centuries now , represented prominently on our national flag and indeed whose forebears were positively central to the revival of our national consciousness within the GAA and Gaelic league . Numerous GAA clubs are named after some of their most prominent . Indeed the Sam Maguire itself .You seem to be advancing a very sectarian argument that those from such an ancestral background somehow arent . As someone related to and educated my entire life alongside such people I find the inference quite offensive . Not to mention the despicable inference Id be offended if i found out i was related to one . Absolutely disgraceful .

But you now seem to have some sort of problem with Irish people being taught Irish hisotry in school? again im confused as to your point ?

ya have him there.

aye sure what do you expect from people like that gentleman, too paisleyiete, sure even the big man himself toned down that nonsnense. no point arguing the true merits of the gaa to a group of people who have no respect for a different culture and one who is unwilling to follow their leaders in accepting a gesture from ours. you could say hello its a fine day in as gaeilge and paranoia will trigger "ra boys at work ra boys at work" nothing changes. dhia duit anyway

Erin Go Brath · 26-03-2008 9:51am

Pathfinder wrote: »

Gaelic games are no more then a disneyland version of the Gaels, do you seriously believe the Gaels played field sports on a cut grass rectangle pitch with a football and rugbyposts.

You need to get real, for all you know some of your ancestors could have been those evil planters.

Irish history has been taught in the freestate as propaganda to reinforce independence.

Wow, what an astonishing display of ignorance and racism. Well done!

Gaelic games are centuries old, and hurling has been played for thouands of years on this island. Its a wonderfully skillful game, with an incredibly long history of being played here that predates Christianity, possibly up to 4,000 years old, though hard to tell when it predates recorded history. Its bound to have had its rules modified throughout the centuries. Its a bit unrealistic to suggest otherwise.

Irish history is taught here as objectivally as possible. You should read through the syllabus, and point out anything that you deem as propaganda. Maybe you're used to a British version of history in which all the empires deeds are promoted as glorious and wonderful achievements, and not the barbaric acts of cruelty and greed that many of those deeds often times were.

walrusgumble · 26-03-2008 10:08am

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Wow, what an astonishing display of ignorance and racism. Well done!

Gaelic games are centuries old, and hurling has been played for thouands of years on this island. Its a wonderfully skillful game, with an incredibly long history of being played here that predates Christianity, possibly up to 4,000 years old, though hard to tell when it predates recorded history. Its bound to have had its rules modified throughout the centuries. Its a bit unrealistic to suggest otherwise.

Irish history is taught here as objectivally as possible. You should read through the syllabus, and point out anything that you deem as propaganda. Maybe you're used to a British version of history in which all the empires deeds are promoted as glorious and wonderful achievements, and not the barbaric acts of cruelty and greed that many of those deeds often times were.

i find funny is that even the unionist lot try and adopt the myth and tales of Setanta aka Cuchlainn aka defender of Ulster as one of their own. sure the myth goes that he was a hurler.

McArmalite · 26-03-2008 12:19pm

Good points been made there walrusgumble, Erin Go Brath and kreuzberger. But it seems to me that Pathfinder has adopted the old Fred Fratton approach of you providing information " only to have a mindset dismiss it regardless ". No matter what reasonable and truthful comments you make, our unionist minded friend will persist with his bigoted nonsense. Now I'm not saying that Pathfinder is Fred under a different guse, but it is very remarkably similair isn't it ?? And it has to said that Fred has been unusually very reasonable and accomadating on this thread, but I wouldn't agree with anyone for been suspicious that it's the old good cop/bad cop routine betwen the two of them.

As for Pathfinders " unionist tax payers help fund the GAA " you'd think the unionists were singluralily providing the funding or something. Money comes from the british state, the unionists only make up roughly 1.5 % of the population of britian. I'm sure the other 98.5 % of the people living in the british state aren't too fussed unlike yourself and Poots about funding for the GAA. Besides, orange halls and so on receive money also from the fund ( which the fund recieves income also from the many Irish nationalists living on the 'mainland' ), so therefore by your logic, ' as nationalist tax payers help fund these ornage halls, the orange order must do more to accommodate the nationalist poulation. ' Wouldn't you agree Path, sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.

" Gaelic games are no more then a disneyland version of the Gaels, do you seriously believe the Gaels played field sports on a cut grass rectangle pitch with a football and rugbyposts. " So are you saying that modern day cricket resembles cricket as palyed centuries ago ?? Or for that matter, baseball, Aussie Rules football etc are really just " disneyland " games and not national heritage of those countries ??

But as I said lads, expect the old Fred routine and whatever reasonable and truthful comments you make he will " only to have a mindset dismiss it regardless ".

kreuzberger · 26-03-2008 1:19pm

whilst id disagree with a lot of the fratton stuff , all of it in fact I remind myself that as an englishman he naturally enough has an anglo centric view of the world which is perfectly understandable. I have found him though open to being corrected and capable of fairmindedness on such occasions , which is also a typically english trait it must be said . Freds points do not contain any actual hatred for the Irish people, they are just a result of being misinformed and often underinformed and a natural desire to stick up for england . Thats quite natural and explainable given his background and makes for a good debate. But I firmly believe Fred likes the Irish people and harbours no malice towards them .
This militaristic and superiority stuff by Pathfinder which always seks to denigrate the Irish people , often on the most ridiculous premise , however is another kettle of fish which I find very objectionable . However its very easily countered .

Fratton Fred · 26-03-2008 2:50pm

kreuzberger wrote: »

whilst id disagree with a lot of the fratton stuff , all of it in fact I remind myself that as an englishman he naturally enough has an anglo centric view of the world which is perfectly understandable. I have found him though open to being corrected and capable of fairmindedness on such occasions , which is also a typically english trait it must be said . Freds points do not contain any actual hatred for the Irish people, they are just a result of being misinformed and often underinformed and a natural desire to stick up for england . Thats quite natural and explainable given his background and makes for a good debate. But I firmly believe Fred likes the Irish people and harbours no malice towards them .
This militaristic and superiority stuff by Pathfinder which always seks to denigrate the Irish people , often on the most ridiculous premise , however is another kettle of fish which I find very objectionable . However its very easily countered .

Don't mind McArmalite, he is harboring latent sexual feelings towards me. I get it all the time

people are naturally protective of their own, one of my favourite sayings is "No one likes to be told their kids are ugly".

I married an Irish women and chose to live in Ireland, my daughter was dressed in green and we all watched the parade in Dublin on St Patrick's day. I have no problem with nationalist feelings, or displays of patriotism, but why should I or my fellow Englishmen be prevented from doing the same.

My daughter is free to support Ireland or England the choice is hers, as long as it's not Man United

Pathfinder · 26-03-2008 8:58pm

kreuzberger wrote: »

whilst id disagree with a lot of the fratton stuff , all of it in fact I remind myself that as an englishman he naturally enough has an anglo centric view of the world which is perfectly understandable. I have found him though open to being corrected and capable of fairmindedness on such occasions , which is also a typically english trait it must be said . Freds points do not contain any actual hatred for the Irish people, they are just a result of being misinformed and often underinformed and a natural desire to stick up for england . Thats quite natural and explainable given his background and makes for a good debate. But I firmly believe Fred likes the Irish people and harbours no malice towards them .
This militaristic and superiority stuff by Pathfinder which always seks to denigrate the Irish people , often on the most ridiculous premise , however is another kettle of fish which I find very objectionable . However its very easily countered .

How do I "denigrate Irish people", I am Irish myself.

Your problem you totally connect being Irish with support for republicanism and anti Britishness.

You need to accept a significant number of people in Ireland are proud to be Irish and British.

Naming GAA halls after terrorists does not weaken our identity but simply reinforces our British-Irish identity.

Hagar · 26-03-2008 10:06pm

It is possibly to denigrate you own people.

This is a republic so support for republicanism isn't as alien as you might expect.

You need to accept that a great number of people here think of you as a troll.

One man's terrorist is another man's resistance fighter.
Many public buildings where I live are named after past members of the French Resistance. I'm sure the German's wouldn't have had the same respect for those people.

Le Burp · 26-03-2008 11:11pm

Hagar wrote: »

It is possibly to denigrate you own people.

This is a republic so support for republicanism isn't as alien as you might expect.

You need to accept that a great number of people here think of you as a troll.

One man's terrorist is another man's resistance fighter.
Many public buildings where I live are named after past members of the French Resistance. I'm sure the German's wouldn't have had the same respect for those people.

Well if you think he is a troll why dont you ban him for having dual accounts as he talks complete sh1te day in day out and is a Walter Mitty that needs help.

Again I will state he has dual a/c's Quis seprabit and this.. He posts inane bullsh1t which he finds on the net and bullsh1ts about being in the parachute regiment PMSL....Hagar do us all a favour and at least ban him from the Military section where I highlighted his total and utter sh1te talking...

Pathfinder your a complete and utter walter.... seek professional help as you live in another world you loser

K-9 · 27-03-2008 3:53am

There is no harm in disagreeing with republicanism/nationalism.

I have respect for Unionism/Loyalism too.

Pathfinders problem is, by his posts, he doesn't understand why he denigrates some Irish people.

He seems to want to believe the GAA is a Republican and Anti-British organisation. This, despite appearing to have little understanding of it.

John Inverdale when he was presenting the BBC coverage
of the Ireland V. England Rugby match last year, took time and effort to understand the significance. He went to AI Finals and attended Ulster GAA matches and clubs with Jarlath Burns, for a few years before. A true Englishman, fair and considerate!

He came to understand what the GAA is about. Amateurism, identity, culture, pride, sport etc. Nationalism yes, but in a good way. He understood why it identified with Nationalism and why it was so important. He also seen the beauty of Hurling, an honour for any man to see!

He didn't condemn, he sought to understand! Sums it up really!

Pathfinder needs to accept that what he views as terrorists, eg. Hunger strikers, aren't, to other people.

Pathfinder · 27-03-2008 2:20pm

Hagar wrote: »

It is possibly to denigrate you own people.

This is a republic so support for republicanism isn't as alien as you might expect.

You need to accept that a great number of people here think of you as a troll.

One man's terrorist is another man's resistance fighter.
Many public buildings where I live are named after past members of the French Resistance. I'm sure the German's wouldn't have had the same respect for those people.

Troll because Im not an Irish republican like them or you Hager ?

Once again I challenge the posters to back up their claim that I "denigrate Irish people"....wheres the quote ?

As for Republicans being resistance fighters, loyalists can claim the very same thing.

What was being discussed was the GAA taking unionist tax payers money via the lottery and govt grants and naming their stadiums after modern day terrorists.

My point is, the GAA, as it recieves govt grants has a moral duty to cater for the whole community.

Naming stadiums in this way increases division and is sectarian, ie its catering only for one section of the community.

Its no wonder unionists continue to see it as the sports wing of the PIRA.

Pathfinder · 27-03-2008 2:55pm

Le Burp wrote: »

Well if you think he is a troll why dont you ban him for having dual accounts as he talks complete sh1te day in day out and is a Walter Mitty that needs help.

Again I will state he has dual a/c's Quis seprabit and this.. He posts inane bullsh1t which he finds on the net and bullsh1ts about being in the parachute regiment PMSL....Hagar do us all a favour and at least ban him from the Military section where I highlighted his total and utter sh1te talking...

Pathfinder your a complete and utter walter.... seek professional help as you live in another world you loser

Seems to be its you who breaks the forum rules with name calling and personnal attacks, but as with others, I'm sure as a republican pet it wil be overlooked.

K-9 · 27-03-2008 4:27pm

Loyalists can indeed claim the same thing and do!

My point is, the GAA, as it recieves govt grants has a moral duty to cater for the whole community.

It doesn't, it has a responsibility to it's own members. Politicians have that duty and Govt. bodies.

Its no wonder unionists continue to see it as the sports wing of the PIRA.

That perception will not change if some grounds are renamed.

guinnessdrinker · 27-03-2008 5:16pm

Pathfinder wrote: »

My point is, the GAA, as it recieves govt grants has a moral duty to cater for the whole community.

Well by that logic, organisations such as the Orange Order should not recieve Nationalist tax payer money. Is it really practical though?

I don't object to the Orange Order receiving tax payers money btw. As was pointed out already in this thread, they have already received €250,000 this year already from the Irish government and there was no massive uproar when it was announced as far as I can remember.

Pathfinder · 27-03-2008 6:13pm

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Well by that logic, organisations such as the Orange Order should not recieve Nationalist tax payer money. Is it really practical though?

I don't object to the Orange Order receiving tax payers money btw. As was pointed out already in this thread, they have already received €250,000 this year already from the Irish government and there was no massive uproar when it was announced as far as I can remember.

Theres a difference between relgious orgs and sporting orgs.

If the OO order should have to recieve Catholics then Catholic orgs should accept Protestants. ?....its actually a very different logic, then sayng a sporting org which recives tax payers money should cater for the whole community.

Pathfinder · 27-03-2008 6:17pm

:pac:

Seanies32 wrote: »

Loyalists can indeed claim the same thing and do!

My point is, the GAA, as it recieves govt grants has a moral duty to cater for the whole community.

It doesn't, it has a responsibility to it's own members. Politicians have that duty and Govt. bodies.

Its no wonder unionists continue to see it as the sports wing of the PIRA.

That perception will not change if some grounds are renamed.

It has a moral duty to foster good community relations and use tax payers money in a non sectarian way.

Not to further create antagonism and mistrust and further sectarian triumphalism.

guinnessdrinker · 27-03-2008 6:40pm

Pathfinder wrote: »

Theres a difference between relgious orgs and sporting orgs.

If the OO order should have to recieve Catholics then Catholic orgs should accept Protestants. ?....its actually a very different logic, then sayng a sporting org which recives tax payers money should cater for the whole community.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. There is of course a difference between religious organisations and sporting organisations but the Orange Order are not a religious organisation its just an institution that doesn't cater for non protestants. The GAA allows members of all faiths to join.

Pathfinder wrote: »

:pac:

It has a moral duty to foster good community relations and use tax payers money in a non sectarian way.

Not to further create antagonism and mistrust and further sectarian triumphalism.

Shouldn't every organisation, sporting or otherwise foster good community relations?

As for sectarian triumphalism, I'm not sure the GAA as an organisation can be accused of this in fairness to them. Maybe there was some incidents of sectarian triumphalism in the past, I don't recall any though certainly not on the scale of something like forcing a parade down an area its not wanted in, like Drumcree and being triumphalist about it afterwards.

Hagar · 27-03-2008 7:56pm

Pathfinder wrote: »

Troll because Im not an Irish republican like them or you Hager ?

No, because you seem to go out of you way to antagonise people.

Pathfinder wrote: »

Its no wonder unionists continue to see it as the sports wing of the PIRA.

Sports wing of the PIRA :eek::D, move post to to Humour, move poster to Dr. Demento.

Pathfinder wrote: »

It has a moral duty to foster good community relations and use tax payers money in a non sectarian way.

Not to further create antagonism and mistrust and further sectarian triumphalism.

Could you have said that with a straight face 20 years ago when Unionists controlled everything and trampled on the Nationalists and used their pet police force to enforce their sectarian hatred on a defenceless community? Defenceless except for the PIRA that is, nobody else stood between them and regular sectarian violence and attacks. The sad truth is that the RUC and the BA couldn't be depended on to protect them. They had to do it themselves.

Pathfinder · 27-03-2008 10:06pm

Hagar wrote: »

No, because you seem to go out of you way to antagonise people.

Sports wing of the PIRA :eek::D, move post to to Humour, move poster to Dr. Demento.

Could you have said that with a straight face 20 years ago when Unionists controlled everything and trampled on the Nationalists and used their pet police force to enforce their sectarian hatred on a defenceless community? Defenceless except for the PIRA that is, nobody else stood between them and regular sectarian violence and attacks. The sad truth is that the RUC and the BA couldn't be depended on to protect them. They had to do it themselves.

You know so much about the defenders of the Catholic community, you forgot to mention the PIRA killed more then 700 and maimed thousands of Catholics.

You also forgot to mention it was the British army who defended the Catholic community from pogrom when the IRA were no where to be seen.

I suggest you read some objective history and who knows maybe oneday pay NI a visit.

As for your bias moderation and threats to ban while others are allowed to break the roles, well lets just say thats a reflection on you not me.

Hagar · 27-03-2008 10:12pm

I lived and worked there during the troubles. Can you say the same?

The PIRA killed 700 Catholics and maimed thousands more? :eek:
Take just one more puff and pass it on.

As for your bias moderation and threats to ban while others are allowed to break the roles, well lets just say thats a reflection on you not me.

What are you talking about?

K-9 · 27-03-2008 11:07pm

Pathfinder wrote: »

:pac:

It has a moral duty to foster good community relations and use tax payers money in a non sectarian way.

Not to further create antagonism and mistrust and further sectarian triumphalism.

You really should take this up with the British Govt.

You still don't get the point. You may view it as sectarian, their members don't!

The Orange Order is viewed as sectarian by many. They have the same responsibilities then?

McArmalite · 28-03-2008 11:39am

Le Burp wrote: »

Well if you think he is a troll why dont you ban him for having dual accounts as he talks complete sh1te day in day out and is a Walter Mitty that needs help.

Again I will state he has dual a/c's Quis seprabit and this.. He posts inane bullsh1t which he finds on the net and bullsh1ts about being in the parachute regiment PMSL....Hagar do us all a favour and at least ban him from the Military section where I highlighted his total and utter sh1te talking...

Pathfinder your a complete and utter walter.... seek professional help as you live in another world you loser

I agree 100%, the fella is a complete Walter and Paisleyite bigot. Yeah, he may post under Quis Seprabit (the motto of the UDA), but he has also been accused of posting under the username of Vesp, who used to have postings on this forum which always sought to insult and denigrate nationalists from the six counties. God knows I'm no saint, but this fella adds nothing to a discussion and as you say " he talks complete sh1te day in day out and is a Walter Mitty that needs help.
"
As fro his statement " Its no wonder unionists continue to see it as the sports wing of the PIRA. " Well that's just a paraphrase of the lovely Sammy Wilson of the DUP when the unionists opposed a reception in Belfast for the Antrim hurling team when they reached the All Ireland final a few years back and typical of how he " He posts inane bullsh1t which he finds on the net ".

walrusgumble · 28-03-2008 2:27pm

McArmalite wrote: »

I agree 100%, the fella is a complete Walter and Paisleyite bigot. Yeah, he may post under Quis Seprabit (the motto of the UDA), but he has also been accused of posting under the username of Vesp, who used to have postings on this forum which always sought to insult and denigrate nationalists from the six counties. God knows I'm no saint, but this fella adds nothing to a discussion and as you say " he talks complete sh1te day in day out and is a Walter Mitty that needs help.
"
As fro his statement " Its no wonder unionists continue to see it as the sports wing of the PIRA. " Well that's just a paraphrase of the lovely Sammy Wilson of the DUP when the unionists opposed a reception in Belfast for the Antrim hurling team when they reached the All Ireland final a few years back and typical of how he " He posts inane bullsh1t which he finds on the net ".

vesp? ay i was wondering where he went to

Hagar · 28-03-2008 5:37pm

Pathfinder wrote: »

You also forgot to mention it was the British army who defended the Catholic community from pogrom when the IRA were no where to be seen.

University of Hamburg wrote:

pogrom:
An organized persecution or extermination of a national, religious or ethnic minority, especially the Jews.
Via Yiddish from Russian: destruction, from po- like + grom thunder.

So you are openly admitting the the Catholic Nationalist community was saved by the British Army from "an organized persecution or extermination of a national, religious or ethnic minority" by the Protestant Unionists while the RUC couldn't / wouldn't / didn't stop it?
That's some admission.

End Irish anthem at GAA matches, demands DUP minister

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