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Open windows no coats

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  • 21-10-2020 7:23pm
    #1
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭


    Hi, my sons said the teacher had to keep the windows open for covid and they are cold but not allowed wear coats.

    Is this a school policy? I cant be sending them in there to shiver all day and Im usually fairly sound when it comes to following teachers orders or wearing a face mask or what have you but this is madness.

    Will this run on through the winter? Is it some sort of union dispute?


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    #2
    greasepalm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,261 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    Wrapping up with so much clothes you cant move or wear what cyclists wear to stop the cold air blowing through you like this and sure others do other versions.

    https://www.caulfieldindustrial.com/p/snickers-9425-flexiwork-seamless-ls-shirt---black_grey/p-e22934?taxdispinc=y&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuL_8BRCXARIsAGiC51AvgDXtxxnKKEg5j5nDQ-MvDGkYp91mweoJ-WH2AYzqAI_fdEt8niAaAvV2EALw_wcB#fo_c=3215&fo_k=f83108783357fe518ae6d5c860da955c&fo_s=gplaie

    If windows have to left open for fresh air anybody in that room needs to be kept warm or whole class will be down with so called covid due to be cold ,sniffles and coughing.


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    #3
    Random sample
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Random sample


    The windows open is needed for air circulation, but no coats is a school policy.

    Thermal underwear and base layers are needed for the winter. I’ve started wearing mine already.


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    #4
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    Random sample wrote: »
    The windows open is needed for air circulation, but no coats is a school policy.

    Thermal underwear and base layers are needed for the winter. I’ve started wearing mine already.

    But the weather can be very hot and cold in different parts of the day, I cant put them in thermals if they are facing east up against a terribly old school window at 9 am and getting roasted followed by freezing up against that window at half 12. A coat is perfect for this situation.


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    #5
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    But the weather can be very hot and cold in different parts of the day, I cant put them in thermals if they are facing east up against a terribly old school window at 9 am and getting roasted followed by freezing up against that window at half 12. A coat is perfect for this situation.
    Layers I would have thought, not necessarily a thermal one. vests, shirts, thicker jumpers.


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    #6
    Lobsterlady
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭Lobsterlady


    My daughter is by the window at school. She is a skinny little thing, with not an ounce of 'insulation' on her...so she wears several layers, and leggings under her school skirt (very long skirts). But she is allowed wear her school jacket, and school hat. I gave her fingerless gloves and a scarf for the couple of bitter days we've had. If any teacher has an issue, I told her to pass on my number.
    Ring the school, or email the form tutor, head teacher and pass on your concerns regarding wearing a coat. It's going to get a lot colder soon.


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    #7
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,214 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Random sample wrote: »
    The windows open is needed for air circulation, but no coats is a school policy.

    Maybe the school should adjust their policy...


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    #8
    greasepalm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,261 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    What about shading for a window to stop you getting roasted.


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    #9
    shane b
    Registered Users Posts: 579 ✭✭✭shane b


    It's the same in my daughters school. In order to help air circulation. I see Irish rail are doing the same in carriages that dont have air con.
    Just have to wrap them up.
    It wont help the school heating bill, if it's worth turning it on at all with doors and windows open.


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    #10
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    greasepalm wrote: »
    What about shading for a window to stop you getting roasted.

    Are you suggesting I put a venetian blind in his schoolbag?


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    #11
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,894 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    Are you suggesting I put a venetian blind in his schoolbag?

    Off-topic, but that gave me the best laugh of my day..


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    #12
    greasepalm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,261 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    2 fingers in his eyes would make him blind also.


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    #13
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    Are you suggesting I put a venetian blind in his schoolbag?

    Sunglasses will do the job


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    #14
    Random sample
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭Random sample


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    Maybe the school should adjust their policy...

    I wasn’t suggesting otherwise. I just meant that you can argue your case about the coat, that’s the school being unreasonable, but there will be no budging on windows being open.


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    #15
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,224 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    We're letting them wear coats or jumpers. Rooms are freezing. Cant be expected to learn subject lessons when fighting the cold.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #16
    Coneygree
    Registered Users Posts: 821 ✭✭✭Coneygree


    Yeah we're allowing ours wear coats too. It is completely daft if a school isn't allowing them have something to keep warm.

    I'm trying to keep my crew from having the hood up for now as they just tend to just sink into it, zone out and they get nothing done but if it gets absolutely baltic then I'll be allowing that too in time. None of them are complaining about the cold so so far so good for now.


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    #17
    440Hertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭440Hertz


    What is the absolute obsession schools here have with what children wear? It's insane. I have never seen it anywhere else outside of the army.

    It's absolutely cruel to ask someone to sit there with no coat on if they're cold and I can see absolutely no reason for it other than sheer pettiness or bloodymindedness.

    I'd quite honestly think it would be one of the few areas where I would send in a letter threatening to go further with legal action. It's totally unreasonable to have someone sitting there freezing. It's inhumane.

    Life's stressful enough for people with the pandemic and the lockdown, yet you've someone in authority deciding to make kids lives misery for absolutely no reason.

    Air temp at the moment is only about 11-12ºC and could be even lower.


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    #18
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    Officially, that’s our policy too, but it’s been relaxed as the weather started getting colder. That being said, as has been pointed out, the windows thing is a necessary Covid issue (or so we’re told by the same people who tell us schools are the safest place fit students, but that’s a different issue), so it’s not going to change just because you kick up a fuss.

    It’s also worth reminding your kids that it hasn’t actually been that cold yet, but it’s going to be, and they might be better off learning to live with being a little chilly so that they appreciate their coats when it really gets cold. You can come in all guns blazing, but it just sends the kid the message that if they kick up enough, you’ll come to their rescue, and that won’t benefit them in the long run.

    Of course if teachers are wearing coats but students aren’t allowed, I would say that that’s something worth mentioning, if that’s the case.


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    #19
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    As the teacher who is acknowledged by the rest of the staff as “ never feeling the cold ,” there have been a few days already this month that I have . Children are allowed to wear coats or hats as well as base layers , without question. There are a few who push it a bit by wearing hats and t-shirts though !
    Unfortunately, with Irish class sizes and small rooms that have no ventilation bar opening windows , it’s going to be a winter of layers . A good thermal base layer for starters and then allow the child to layer up from there .


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    #20
    440Hertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭440Hertz


    It has been between 12 and 14ºC all week.

    Bear in mind that the minimum temperatures are defined in the The Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (General Application) Regulations 2007. While it may not be directly applicable to students, they're certainly applicable to teachers.

    Typically the aim is minimum of 17.5°C for the first hours work and 16ºC there after for sedentary work environments.

    If the room temperature is less than that, it's totally unreasonable to ask anyone to work in that space without adequate clothing i.e. coats etc.


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    #21
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    A friend of my wife just told her there that her friends son tried to put on his coat and was told to take it off.

    When the son told her she just thought he was messing and the teacher was telling him not to mess. A couple of days later he was upset getting his uniform on and was asking for thermals, when she asked why he said he was cold everyday and teacher told him to wear thermals.

    My son says the boy sits at the window. Im a fairly relaxed fella, Im not an anti masker or anti vaxxer or into any of that carry on but if my son told me that, Id have lost it. I can see an angry mob turning up at schools that adopt this policy.

    The boy is about 8. Sitting there freezing. Im actually getting more annoyed than I should just typing this.

    Why cant the kids hang their coats on the back of their chairs and put them on if they want.


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    #22
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    Coneygree wrote: »
    I'm trying to keep my crew from having the hood up for now as they just tend to just sink into it, zone out and they get nothing done but if it gets absolutely baltic then I'll be allowing that too in time. None of them are complaining about the cold so so far so good for now.
    Can’t agree with this. Coats, fine, and maybe scarves, but hats and hoods, no.


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    #23
    rom
    Registered Users Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭rom


    It would make scene if you engaged with the school and queried this. At face value it does sound crazy as I am aware that some other schools are allowing coats and kids to wear blankets etc so this seems to be deviating in rules from school to school.


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    #24
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    rom wrote: »
    It would make scene if you engaged with the school and queried this. At face value it does sound crazy as I am aware that some other schools are allowing coats and kids to wear blankets etc so this seems to be deviating in rules from school to school.

    Making a scene would be the last of my worries when my kids are freezing. At the moment I have lunch outdoors and am wearing a coat. I cant sit there eating sambos in a very warm coat while kids arnt getting coats. When the heating broke in my school we all went home. That was a time when it wasnt uncommon to have nothing but a open fire at home to heat a family.


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    #25
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,841 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    440Hertz wrote: »
    It has been between 12 and 14ºC all week.

    Bear in mind that the minimum temperatures are defined in the The Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (General Application) Regulations 2007. While it may not be directly applicable to students, they're certainly applicable to teachers.

    Typically the aim is minimum of 17.5°C for the first hours work and 16ºC there after for sedentary work environments.

    If the room temperature is less than that, it's totally unreasonable to ask anyone to work in that space without adequate clothing i.e. coats etc.

    If I’m a teacher and the temp drops below what is mandated by the H&S guidelines I’m onto the union, also threatening to withdraw my labour.

    If I’m a parent and in that scenario my kid wasn’t being allowed to wear a coat / jacket and hat in class I’d just remove them from the class, get a letter into the department advising that if they thought about making an issue of it you have already consulted your legal representative who are clear that they will advance proceedings to safeguard the health and safety of the child / children. It is not an ‘option’ for the school but a legal obligation that they provide their pupils and staff with a safe, healthy environment to learn in. LEGAL obligation. A classroom with all windows open and no jackets / hat in winter isn’t safe.

    In a couple of weeks the temperature will nosedive. If schools want to teach with an ‘open window’ policy....

    - heating turned on full from say 5am and on continuously.

    - windows and doors closed at breaks to enable the room to warm up again.

    - coats and hats allowed.

    - windows and doors not ajar more then x number of inches.


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    #26
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    Strumms wrote: »
    If I’m a teacher and the temp drops below what is mandated by the H&S guidelines I’m onto the union, also threatening to withdraw my labour.

    If I’m a parent and in that scenario my kid wasn’t being allowed to wear a coat / jacket and hat in class I’d just remove them from the class, get a letter into the department advising that if they thought about making an issue of it you have already consulted your legal representative who are clear that they will advance proceedings to safeguard the health and safety of the child / children. It is not an ‘option’ for the school but a legal obligation that they provide their pupils and staff with a safe, healthy environment to learn in. LEGAL obligation. A classroom with all windows open and no jackets / hat in winter isn’t safe.

    In a couple of weeks the temperature will nosedive. If schools want to teach with an ‘open window’ policy....

    - heating turned on full from say 5am and on continuously.

    - windows and doors closed at breaks to enable the room to warm up again.

    - coats and hats allowed.

    - windows and doors not ajar more then x number of inches.

    Excellent post, im in the sitting room now with the heating on, if the wife opens the door to the hall I feel a chill and cant wait for the door to close.


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    #27
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    I am a teacher.

    Ive told my class the windows must stay open, and as i have to maximise space on the room some are seated by the windows.
    We have the same policy....no coats in class (not something i ever really enforced anyway) but i have told my students they can wear whatever they like, hats, scarves, gloves and lagging jackets for all i care this year.
    The world is gone mad. Why can't people just use common sense.


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    #28
    Man with broke phone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Man with broke phone


    joebloggs32 wrote: »
    I am a teacher.

    Ive told my class the windows must stay open, and as i have to maximise space on the room some are seated by the windows.
    We have the same policy....no coats in class (not something i ever really enforced anyway) but i have told my students they can wear whatever they like, hats, scarves, gloves and lagging jackets for all i care this year.
    The world is gone mad. Why can't people just use common sense.

    Fair play to you.


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    #29
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,841 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Man with broke phone wrote: »
    Excellent post, im in the sitting room now with the heating on, if the wife opens the door to the hall I feel a chill and cant wait for the door to close.

    Yes, up to third year where we then moved into a brand new property built on adjoining land the original school building was a cold kip. A wooden structure in the main with a 1960’s heating system. Drafty as fûck. With coats not allowed ( thanks Christian brothers ) ... I like to think we are a little more advanced that a common sense compromise can be acquired rather then, ‘sorry lads, covid, you’ll have to freeze your ears off’...


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    #30
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    I live almost opposite a secondary school. The amounts of kids who go to school, all winter long, without coats, even in the pouring rain is unreal.


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    #31
    440Hertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭440Hertz


    We had plenty of arbitrary enforcement of uniform rules when I was kid. I remember for example we had an option of a grey or a white shirt, but most people wore white ones. I turned up in a grey shirt and a teacher pulled me out of class, totally humiliated me and went on this huge rant about uniforms. I was 7! I didn't pick my own shirts.

    Same place decided one day my shoes were the wrong shade of black or were too runner like or something and made me go around in my socks for the whole day.

    Also the non uniform days in secondary school where jeans were banned. So you'd have to go desperately looking around for chinos, which I didn't own. So I used to skip those days.

    Ireland in the 1990s - very much like the rest of the developed world in the 1950s. I just had assumed we had perhaps moved on since the dark ages, but clearly not.

    Schools need to get a bit realistic about what's possible at present. It's no time to be getting bogged down, Captain Mainwaring style, focused on extreme minutiae like this. Students, staff and everyone else is under huge stress at present trying to keep the show on the road during an unprecedented national emergency.


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