M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Reuben1210 · 14-10-2020 2:11pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would think it is caused by allowing one off houses in any part of the countryside. That is a failure of planning.

Did I read somewhere there was a plan by this govt. or the last to limit one-off housing and ribbon development?

Kerry and Donegal are particularly blighted by it, it is awful and inefficient!

Cookiemunster · 14-10-2020 2:55pm

Reuben1210 wrote: »

Did I read somewhere there was a plan by this govt. or the last to limit one-off housing and ribbon development?

Kerry and Donegal are particularly blighted by it, it is awful and inefficient!

It's already in place. One off rural houses are now regularly being refused by local authorities all over the country. I've seen plenty of local councilors in local papers complaining about central government imposing restrictions on them.

veryangryman · 14-10-2020 3:03pm

On topic, i noticed that the roads listed in the budget did not include mention of the M6.

Included roads were the N4(Sligo part under construction), N56 (i imagine the LK part), Dunkettle and one or 2 others. Galway a notable exclusion. I'm sure there were reasons, many of which have been alluded to in this thread.

Sam Russell · 14-10-2020 3:14pm

veryangryman wrote: »

On topic, i noticed that the roads listed in the budget did not include mention of the M6.

Included roads were the N4(Sligo part under construction), N56 (i imagine the LK part), Dunkettle and one or 2 others. Galway a notable exclusion. I'm sure there were reasons, many of which have been alluded to in this thread.

It is not ready for funding yet.

Pete_Cavan · 14-10-2020 3:15pm

veryangryman wrote: »

On topic, i noticed that the roads listed in the budget did not include mention of the M6.

Included roads were the N4(Sligo part under construction), N56 (i imagine the LK part), Dunkettle and one or 2 others. Galway a notable exclusion. I'm sure there were reasons, many of which have been alluded to in this thread.

It is going to be with ABP for most of next year so there will be little or no expenditure on this project next year.

marno21 · 14-10-2020 3:19pm

veryangryman wrote: »

On topic, i noticed that the roads listed in the budget did not include mention of the M6.

Included roads were the N4(Sligo part under construction), N56 (i imagine the LK part), Dunkettle and one or 2 others. Galway a notable exclusion. I'm sure there were reasons, many of which have been alluded to in this thread.

It won't be able to start for another 3-4 years yet. No funding required in the short term.

Sam Russell · 14-10-2020 5:17pm

marno21 wrote: »

It won't be able to start for another 3-4 years yet. No funding required in the short term.

And that assumes it gets the nod.

Ruhanna · 15-10-2020 12:48pm

Ruhanna wrote: »

Are you referring to the existence of sprawl, by any chance? You'll find that's caused by roads and cars.

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would think it is caused by allowing one off houses in any part of the countryside. That is a failure of planning.

It's both, clearly. Private cars (in theory) allow car owners to drive where they want when they want. If our planning model is based on that principle, which it clearly is in Ireland and in many other places, then the 'logical' thing to do is to assume that things are they way they are and will remain so forever, so let's build roads wherever and whenever they are "needed". The roads are needed to allow housing development, and the housing development can be allowed to sprawl because cars make that possible. Unfortunately, the resultant sprawl makes it necessary to own a car, or maybe even three or four cars for a large household.

Now, if it's the case that you live on the edge of sprawl or even far out in the countryside, but most of the jobs are somewhere else (such as in Galway City for example) then you have to drive to work every day. It turns out that thousands of others have to do the very same thing, so you find yourself stuck in traffic every morning, tearing your hair out with the frustration of it all.

So what's the solution, supposedly? Well, if many thousands of people live in sprawl-land, and therefore have to travel by car, then the solution must be more roads, right?

But hang on, if we build another big road, won't that make driving to and from the sprawl even easier? Great, let's move out and build a big five-bedroom house in the countryside on a half acre for the price of a three-bed semi in the city. We'll beat the traffic by getting up half an hour earlier every morning.

serfboard · 15-10-2020 2:31pm

Ruhanna wrote: »

So what's the solution?

The solution is not to have allowed one-off housing in the countryside in the first place, following a simple rule of only those who work on the land (i.e. farmers) can live on the land.

Everyone else must live in city, town or village.

Then, you can organise proper public transport from those villages and towns to the cities, because you have the critical mass to do so.

However, scattered one-off housing is what we have in Ireland, so the solution for us is Park n Rides on the outskirts of cities. And specifically in Galway we need massive investment in Bus Park n Rides, since the train Park n Ride at Oranmore only serves those who come from the East and journey to the city centre.

15-10-2020 4:44pm

serfboard wrote: »

The solution is not to have allowed one-off housing in the countryside in the first place, following a simple rule of only those who work on the land (i.e. farmers) can live on the land.

Farmers don't need to live on the land. Loads of places don't even allow that again due to the obvious inefficiencies and how open to abuse it would be.

spacetweek · 17-10-2020 2:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Farmers don't need to live on the land. Loads of places don't even allow that again due to the obvious inefficiencies and how open to abuse it would be.

In places like Spain and Italy farmers don't live on their farms, they live in an apartment in a nearby rural village and commute to their farm as needed. This model of living would be anathema in Ireland, but it makes for very vibrant rural villages - their kids can walk to the nearby school, teenagers hang out without requiring to be driven everywhere, anyone can simply walk to a pub so drink driving doesn't happen and cafes are supported by farmers in the morning.

Ideas, ideas!

17-10-2020 6:41pm

spacetweek wrote: »

In places like Spain and Italy farmers don't live on their farms, they live in an apartment in a nearby rural village and commute to their farm as needed. This model of living would be anathema in Ireland, but it makes for very vibrant rural villages - their kids can walk to the nearby school, teenagers hang out without requiring to be driven everywhere, anyone can simply walk to a pub so drink driving doesn't happen and cafes are supported by farmers in the morning.

Ideas, ideas!

Even in England it is that way as well, few farmers live on the farm as well as the fact that new one-offs have been banned since the 1940s in many areas.

Sam Russell · 17-10-2020 7:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Even in England it is that way as well, few farmers live on the farm as well as the fact that new one-offs have been banned since the 1940s in many areas.

The reason farmers live on their land is because it is their land. Most farms in the UK are rented not owned, but following the various land acts, Irish tenants were granted the land on annuities (mortgages).

The reason one-off houses occur is either from children granted sites by parents to build a home, or farmers turning road frontage into a cash crop. The second one has been combated by planning requiring local residency requirements.

There should be a requirement to prove infrastructure is present or if not a large contribution should be required.

tharlear · 21-10-2020 7:25pm

The reason one-off houses occur is either from children granted sites by parents to build a home, or farmers turning road frontage into a cash crop. The second one has been combated by planning requiring local residency requirements.

There should be a requirement to prove infrastructure is present or if not a large contribution should be required.

But hang on, if we build another big road, won't that make driving to and from the sprawl even easier? Great, let's move out and build a big five-bedroom house in the countryside on a half acre for the price of a three-bed semi in the city. We'll beat the traffic by getting up half an hour earlier every morning.

But why are people willing to get up 1/2hr to 1hr early to live far from work with sparse services?
That is the question that many anti-bypass people refuse to ask
Could it be that people don't want a shoe box semi-d. Tiny badly built low rise apt and semi-d houses. (high density they are not)
As long as we continue to build houses people do not want they will continue to move out and build what they want in the countryside. The apt and semi-d become student accommodation, because no high density student accommodation has been built near the uni.

people elect the politicians that make the rules. We have and continue to get what we vote for!

Sam Russell · 21-10-2020 7:36pm

tharlear wrote: »

But hang on, if we build another big road, won't that make driving to and from the sprawl even easier? Great, let's move out and build a big five-bedroom house in the countryside on a half acre for the price of a three-bed semi in the city. We'll beat the traffic by getting up half an hour earlier every morning.

But why are people willing to get up 1/2hr to 1hr early to live far from work with sparse services?
That is the question that many anti-bypass people refuse to ask
Could it be that people don't want a shoe box semi-d. Tiny badly built low rise apt and semi-d houses. (high density they are not)
As long as we continue to build houses people do not want they will continue to move out and build what they want in the countryside. The apt and semi-d become student accommodation, because no high density student accommodation has been built near the uni.

people elect the politicians that make the rules. We have and continue to get what we vote for!

The cost of housing tends to equal out as buyers try to get the best for themselves and their family.

The game changer occurs when daddy gives a half acre site and sonny or daughter does a self-build hacienda in the remote townland, and drives to work. No consideration for anything outside selfish interests.

Charge the farmer capital gains tax and that might reduce this. Require infrastructure before pp is granted. A lot of other measures are possible but adequate public transport for Galway, with adequate P&R facilities. This will reduce traffic in Galway substantially.

The bypass will only increase traffic.

21-10-2020 7:51pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

The reason farmers live on their land is because it is their land. Most farms in the UK are rented not owned, but following the various land acts, Irish tenants were granted the land on annuities (mortgages).

Most farm workers used to live in "tied cottages" out in the countryside where they worked, the cottage owned by the landowning farmer and came with the job.
With mechanisation, these were no longer needed and most were demolished when the farm hands died off. But yes, the land consolidation happened there far earlier than here,it is only just getting started in reality.

Ruhanna · 22-10-2020 4:21pm

tharlear wrote: »

But why are people willing to get up 1/2hr to 1hr early to live far from work with sparse services?
That is the question that many anti-bypass people refuse to ask
Could it be that people don't want a shoe box semi-d. Tiny badly built low rise apt and semi-d houses. (high density they are not)
As long as we continue to build houses people do not want they will continue to move out and build what they want in the countryside. The apt and semi-d become student accommodation, because no high density student accommodation has been built near the uni.

people elect the politicians that make the rules. We have and continue to get what we vote for!

Nobody opposing the bypass/ring road is avoiding those questions. Quite the opposite. I've no idea what the actual numbers are, but some people living in the countryside were born there and have (adult) children looking to build homes in their locality. Many others are people who moved out of the city decades ago to build a detached house on a half acre or whatever, and now their offspring want the same. Others are people who moved out relatively recently, and their kids are still going to school. They're not farmers, and they're not rural dwellers of old. They're urbanites wanting the best of both worlds: property that would be unaffordable in the city, and a lifestyle consisting of rural living financed by urban employment.

That culture, which has been going on in Ireland for decades, has been made possible by a number of things: easily available planning permission, road construction projects, and affordable car ownership (eg cheap credit etc).

The M6 Galway Ring Road promises more of the same, which is why it's so popular in certain quarters. It's the exact opposite of what we should be doing, which is to ensure the sustainability of actual farming, to make county towns viable by promoting the local economy, to stop the spread of sprawl, and to stop planning around cars and driving.

Sam Russell · 22-10-2020 5:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Most farm workers used to live in "tied cottages" out in the countryside where they worked, the cottage owned by the landowning farmer and came with the job.
With mechanisation, these were no longer needed and most were demolished when the farm hands died off. But yes, the land consolidation happened there far earlier than here,it is only just getting started in reality.

I am not sure where 'here' is for you, but Ireland had the land acts in the late 19th century, followed by the Land Commission that transformed the farmer tenant into the farmer land owner. Now he/she did not get the land for nothing as they had a annuity to pay for 50 years or so, just like a mortgage. That did not happen in GB. Tenant farmers are still very common in England, and crofters in Scotland.

Mechanization is a much more recent in Irish farming - probably from mid 20th century. Most cottages were left go to ruin.

tharlear · 27-10-2020 4:14am

Nobody opposing the bypass/ring road is avoiding those questions.

Unfortunately I think they are.

Many of the people I see complaining about the current bypass proposal say thing like, they built the Quin-centennial bridge and it filed up with traffic. They complain about the houses built in Knocknacarra in the 80/90s. But people wanted those houses. Galway city population has increase about 3x (I know the boundary expanded). If the bypass is built, yes the city will expand further and who knows in 20 years it may be over 150K. If the bypass is built you will get more investment.

So it appears you have a choice, build the bypass and allow more 80/90 knocknacarra type suburbs being built that people will buy, city expands "medium density sprawl" . Don't built it and you will get more one offs in the countryside "very low density sprawl". In my view its a case of the perfect being the enemy of the possible.

The local councilors will never block one off housings, it what the voters want, because they don't want the high price shoe boxes being built in the city.

Sam Russell · 27-10-2020 10:10am

tharlear wrote: »

Unfortunately I think they are.

Many of the people I see complaining about the current bypass proposal say thing like, they built the Quin-centennial bridge and it filed up with traffic. They complain about the houses built in Knocknacarra in the 80/90s. But people wanted those houses. Galway city population has increase about 3x (I know the boundary expanded). If the bypass is built, yes the city will expand further and who knows in 20 years it may be over 150K. If the bypass is built you will get more investment.

So it appears you have a choice, build the bypass and allow more 80/90 knocknacarra type suburbs being built that people will buy, city expands "medium density sprawl" . Don't built it and you will get more one offs in the countryside "very low density sprawl". In my view its a case of the perfect being the enemy of the possible.

The local councilors will never block one off housings, it what the voters want, because they don't want the high price shoe boxes being built in the city.

The problem with the Ring Road is that it does not address the primary problem in any way, and will cause more of the current problems - lack of public transport and cycling infrastructure and exacerbate the one off housing problem and dependence on cars.

The problem of internal traffic problems in Galway will not only persist but get much worse because of the Galway City Councils inability to plan - well, anything. The Ring Road will just make it easier to continue the bad planning.

Pete_Cavan · 27-10-2020 10:10am

tharlear wrote: »

So it appears you have a choice, build the bypass and allow more 80/90 knocknacarra type suburbs being built that people will buy, city expands "medium density sprawl" . Don't built it and you will get more one offs in the countryside "very low density sprawl". In my view its a case of the perfect being the enemy of the possible.

This seems like incredibly warped logic based on set choices which are not actually set if you ask me. First of all, the choice isn't, or at least shouldn't be, building this bypass or do nothing at all. Other choices were rejected and if (and most likely when) this proposal finally dies other things will again be considered, although a decade will have been lost in between. They pushed ahead with a horrendously expensive, over-engineered 17km long motorway with multiple tunnels and viaducts which is almost certain to never get built, due to planning, environmental or cost reasons. This proposal tries to be all things to all men and so is unnecessarily complex and expensive, the things which are ususally the death knell for infrastructure projects here. They put everything on a horse which was unlikely to start the race, nevermind win it.

I don't see the logic in not building this bypass means "you will get more one offs in the countryside "very low density sprawl"". Surely the opposite is true, building such a bypass will encourage more people to live further from the city in the knowledge miss-guided belief that they will be able to drive in and around the city in reasonable time.

About the only thing that you said which I can agree with is this being "a case of the perfect being the enemy of the possible", in that those welded to their cars think it is perfect to have an end to end bypass but that in itself almost certainly makes it impossible that it will happen.

serfboard · 27-10-2020 4:06pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

building such a bypass will encourage more people to live further from the city in the miss-guided belief that they will be able to drive in and around the city in reasonable time.

If a bypass was to be built then the belief of someone from Clifden that they would be able to avoid the city when travelling to Dublin would be correct. Or someone from Oughterard going to Limerick, or Moycullen to Athlone ...

I don't think it follows that people would believe that building a bypass would mean that you would be able to drive into the city.

Park n' Rides at bypass junctions would take care of that function.

Pete_Cavan · 27-10-2020 4:35pm

serfboard wrote: »

If a bypass was to be built then the belief of someone from Clifden that they would be able to avoid the city when travelling to Dublin would be correct. Or someone from Oughterard going to Limerick, or Moycullen to Athlone ...

I don't think it follows that people would believe that building a bypass would mean that you would be able to drive into the city.

Park n' Rides at bypass junctions would take care of that function.

Those journeys don't require a 17km bypass, they could be facilitated with a simpler project.

Many people want the bypass to allow them drive to business parks, etc. on the outskirts of the city, where much of the employment in Galway is. P&Rs have their place but they are of limited use.

serfboard · 27-10-2020 7:41pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Those journeys don't require a 17km bypass, they could be facilitated with a simpler project.

Such as?

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Many people want the bypass to allow them drive to business parks, etc. on the outskirts of the city, where much of the employment in Galway is.

Don't disagree with you there which is why I distinguish between the currently planned ring-road (with junctions everywhere) and what I believe is needed, which is a proper grade-separated freeflow bypass with three junctions only - Galway City East (M6), Galway City Centre & Clifden (N59) and Galway City West (R336). Anything else is sub-optimal.

It's academic in any case, as neither will be built for a decade (if ever) and the traffic problem needs solving ASAP with better public transport options and more car free roads - a bit like what Bus Connects is proposing, in fact.

And Bus Park n Rides are definitely needed.

Pete_Cavan · 27-10-2020 9:18pm

serfboard wrote: »

Such as?

Don't disagree with you there which is why I distinguish between the currently planned ring-road (with junctions everywhere) and what I believe is needed, which is a proper grade-separated freeflow bypass with three junctions only - Galway City East (M6), Galway City Centre & Clifden (N59) and Galway City West (R336). Anything else is sub-optimal.

It's academic in any case, as neither will be built for a decade (if ever) and the traffic problem needs solving ASAP with better public transport options and more car free roads - a bit like what Bus Connects is proposing, in fact.

And Bus Park n Rides are definitely needed.

You gave an answer to your own question in your second paragraph. I would suggest that a link between N6 and N59 would be sufficient, for now at least, given that would link all National roads. It could be extended west in future if required. That would knock a chunk off the cost and remove some objections but still requiring the tunnels and viaduct would see the bulk of the cost remain.

Another reduced scope option would be coming off the existing N6 a few hundred metres west of the Tuam Road and only going as far as the connection to N59, not further west. There isnt enough space for a proper junction at the N6/N83 junction so it could be built further west where space is available. A new section of road could link from that junction back to Tuam Road which could allow for reduced movements and more throughput at the existing junction. The space doesn't exist for GSJs at the existing junctions so creating another junction while reducing movement at existing junctions is the best option. The Coolagh roundabout could be eliminated to make N6 freeflow and new a link from Coolagh to Parkmore Road that would also tie into the N67.

The point is there were other options that would address most of the main issues but they went with a serve every suburb option with many difficulties and huge cost and therefore limited chance of actually happening.

tharlear · 28-10-2020 3:48am

[QUOTEThis seems like incredibly warped logic based on set choices which are not actually set if you ask me. First of all, the choice isn't, or at least shouldn't be, building this bypass or do nothing at all][/QUOTE]

Depends how you look at it, bike lanes ( like the one on Seamus quirke road) , bus lanes (like the one out the Renmore road, or the proposal one which leaves the cottage on the mervue side in the way) is the same as doing nothing in my opinion.

The point is there were other options that would address most of the main issues but they went with a serve every suburb option with many difficulties and huge cost and therefore limited chance of actually happening.

They went with a motorway design that would be future proofed for 20 to 30 years. Planning ahead unlike, m50 luas etc.

this proposal finally dies other things will again be considered,

what above mentioned bike and bus lanes.
upgrading the existing 2 lane inner relief, of course one lane of which will be a bus lane. This is not planning for the future it trying to band aid the past.

KrisW1001 · 28-10-2020 10:35am

The Western arm of this road is the one that's essential to put in place now. If it's left for too long, Galway will sprawl outward and close off the only possible corridor completely.

On everything else, I agree with Pete, above. This route should not be a commercial access road for Galway; it's an essential part of the national road infrastructure, and without it, points Northwest of Galway City have no time-reliable access to the rest of the country.

Three junctions would be sufficient, and they should be with other National roads only.

The current plan is like something from the 1970s: a collector/distributor for every neighbourhood! Didn't they see how expensive that idea became for Cork?

Galway's traffic problems are simple: too many people have no (realistic) option but to travel by car, but there's not enough space for all the cars, and there is literally no extra room to build more roads (this scheme is really the last chance - which is why I'd have preferred it to be a true bypass). The answer to the problem has to involve finding ways of getting people to where they want to go without forcing them to drive there. Much better bus services, maybe even an East-West light rail solution, and make the outer neighbourhoods more pedestrian and cycle friendly.

The N6 would still be needed, of course, but with these other things done, it wouldn't immediately turn into a car-park twice a day.

hans aus dtschl · 28-10-2020 11:10am

KrisW1001 wrote: »

The current plan is like something from the 1970s: a collector/distributor for every neighbourhood! Didn't they see how expensive that idea became for Cork?

Yep, we made our bed: you don't have to lie in it.

On the "closing of the corridor", I think there are ways that the corridor could possibly be protected. Others on here would be more knowledgeable than me.

timmyntc · 28-10-2020 11:17am

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Yep, we made our bed: you don't have to lie in it.

On the "closing of the corridor", I think there are ways that the corridor could possibly be protected. Others on here would be more knowledgeable than me.

Would council be able to rezone the lands needed and block any potential developments along that corridor?
Problem is proposed GCRR crosses Galway city & county boundaries, so it would need cooperation between the 2 LAs

Sam Russell · 28-10-2020 11:26am

KrisW1001 wrote: »

Galway's traffic problems are simple: too many people have no (realistic) option but to travel by car, but there's not enough space for all the cars, and there is literally no extra room to build more roads (this scheme is really the last chance - which is why I'd have preferred it to be a true bypass). The answer to the problem has to involve finding ways of getting people to where they want to go without forcing them to drive there. Much better bus services, maybe even an East-West light rail solution, and make the outer neighbourhoods more pedestrian and cycle friendly.

The N6 would still be needed, of course, but with these other things done, it wouldn't immediately turn into a car-park twice a day.

You are right - too many people in Galway (County in particular) have no alternative, currently, that to travel to where they wish to other than to drive (or be driven). Can you believe schoolchildren get driven a few Km to school?

It is not a solution to that problem to build a new major road, as it only means getting to the congestion quicker, and then being part of that congestion.

Park and ride, and more comprehensive public transport - those are the major parts of the solution. The cycling option is good for the last few Kms. The Dublin bikes project has been an overwhelming success, and the improvements in cycling infrastructure in Dublin should pay dividends. Galway should look for this approach - more bikes, more buses, less cars.

Galway seems transfixed by a proposal to solve all its current traffic problems on a motorway that will not solve the traffic and cannot be completed within a decade, while the congestion gets worse every year. Maybe a shiny new light rail (Luas) instead might be a compromise that can be built quickly, and that would get popular support.

But P&R would be essential first.

Paddico · 08-12-2020 2:15pm

Any news on the project? Been quite on here for a while

06-02-2021 2:47pm

Decision due in April

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/an-bord-pleanala-sets-provisional-decision-date-for-proposed-city-ring-road-project/

06-02-2021 4:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Decision to postpone due in April

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/an-bord-pleanala-sets-provisional-decision-date-for-proposed-city-ring-road-project/

fyp!
Hope I'm wrong.

Kevtherev1 · 07-02-2021 1:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Decision due in April

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/an-bord-pleanala-sets-provisional-decision-date-for-proposed-city-ring-road-project/

I would imagine there will be some legal action taken to appeal or look for judicial review. A case taken
by some business, residents, landowners if this gets planning in 2021.

07-02-2021 5:52pm

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

I would imagine there will be some legal action taken to appeal or look for judicial review. A case taken
by some business, residents, landowners if this gets planning in 2021.

I think that its a given this will be appealed, and end up before the courts and go to higher courts etc, if its given the green light.

Honestly I don't see them breaking ground on this until the 2030's if its approved and passes all hurdles

marno21 · 07-02-2021 8:14pm

I would be shocked if there was a decision on this by April. Mid summer at the earliest.

Pete_Cavan · 07-02-2021 9:18pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think that its a given this will be appealed, and end up before the courts and go to higher courts etc, if its given the green light.

Honestly I don't see them breaking ground on this until the 2030's if its approved and passes all hurdles

I would hope that they would look at other options rather than continuing to flog this dead horse.

Green Peter · 08-02-2021 5:47am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I would hope that they would look at other options rather than continuing to flog this dead horse.

Let the serial objectors win again. If they were around when the wheel was invented they'd have objected.

marno21 · 12-02-2021 3:30am

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/119735/city-bypass-might-increase-not-lessen-traffic-congestion-in-galway

Article in this weeks Galway Advertiser. Always deserves a chuckle when I see a photo of Interstate 405 just south of LAX in an article on Galway.

what_traffic · 12-02-2021 10:17am

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/119735/city-bypass-might-increase-not-lessen-traffic-congestion-in-galway

Article in this weeks Galway Advertiser. Always deserves a chuckle when I see a photo of Interstate 405 just south of LAX in an article on Galway.

Its the Galway Advertiser free sheet. :rolleyes:
Probably some young intern dreaming of the amazing J1 car traffic jams experience they had in LA.

Is a bit daft alright when photos used from Galway City itself show that induced demand has already occurred in the City.

KrisW1001 · 12-02-2021 10:25am

I sometimes think people have a blind-spot when it comes to the meaning of the word "bypass". It should be obvious that a road that bypasses a city is not intended to serve the needs of commuters who want to enter and leave the city. The clue is in the name.

There are two issues.

First: Without doubt, Galway needs a bypass: it's a major bottleneck for traffic that has no interest whatsoever in entering the city.

But, second: The bypass will not fix Galway's own traffic problems. In fact, as designed, it will most likely make them worse. Adding capacity around the city just exacerbates the fundamental problem that there's not enough road capacity within the city for the number cars that try to use it each morning and evening. We should have learned that already from M50 and the Cork South Ring Road.

Galway needs to get some cash together and fix its public transport, fix its cycling provision and start coming up with ways of encouraging people to leave their cars in the driveway (or at least to park them outside the city).

what_traffic · 12-02-2021 10:43am

KrisW1001 wrote: »

I sometimes think people have a blind-spot when it comes to the meaning of the word "bypass". It should be obvious that a road that bypasses a city is not intended to serve the needs of commuters who want to enter and leave the city. The clue is in the name.

Agree. Ya the article is littered with term bypass (people use the term in all sorts of ways)
There is no bypass here currently(previous plan was a more conventional style bypass)
The Galway City Ring Road is designed and is intended to serve the needs of car commuters who want to enter and leave the city. There is very little demand for car traffic bypassing the City - the design teams own traffic counting via Reg'no shows the same in the reports that are been submitted to ABP.
Agree that public transport and cycling are the way to go. Galway City already has very impressive walking no's.

SeanW · 12-02-2021 8:05pm

So assuming you oppose the current bypass plan, what is your alternative for people and goods trying to avoid the city on an East-West route?

Green Peter · 12-02-2021 8:26pm

SeanW wrote: »

So assuming you oppose the current bypass plan, what is your alternative for people and goods trying to avoid the city on an East-West route?

They should make a national park west of Bushypark for the D4's and Peter Sweetman type visitors. Sure who's out there anyway and they don't really need any services, throw them a few bales and nuts. They'll be grand.

12-02-2021 8:49pm

SeanW wrote: »

So assuming you oppose the current bypass plan, what is your alternative for people and goods trying to avoid the city on an East-West route?

Firstly, its not a bypass, its a ring road, designed to distribute traffic around the city.

Second, the scenario you outlined happens everyday as is (covid notwithstanding). Its just a mess because everyone drives everywhere even when there is no need for it.

Third, the current design is destined to become blocked with traffic again within 30-40 years of completion, what then? Build another one?

Pete_Cavan · 12-02-2021 9:49pm

Green Peter wrote: »

Let the serial objectors win again. If they were around when the wheel was invented they'd have objected.

Just going back to this post I missed. I wasn't saying let the serial objectors win, there are numerous other reasons why this project may not happen, planning refusal not related to objectors, environmental concerns, the enormous cost, it dawning on people that this is more likely to increase traffic than ease it, Eamon Ryan, etc. This project is oversized and overcomplicated and has created so many hurdles for itself that it is very likely to fall at at least one.

Sam Russell · 12-02-2021 10:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Firstly, its not a bypass, its a ring road, designed to distribute traffic around the city.

Second, the scenario you outlined happens everyday as is (covid notwithstanding). Its just a mess because everyone drives everywhere even when there is no need for it.

Third, the current design is destined to become blocked with traffic again within 30-40 years of completion, what then? Build another one?

The bypass is already built. It is called the M17/M18 and allows traffic going from Limerick to bypass Galway on its way north to North of Tuam.

What Galway needs is better public transport and more bridges over the Corrib. Add appropriate P&R and decent cycling infrastructure and it is nearly sorted.

The ring road will not be built for a decade. Buses could be in use by next year, and P&R by the year after.

12-02-2021 10:49pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

What Galway needs is better public transport and more bridges over the Corrib. Add appropriate P&R and decent cycling infrastructure and it is nearly sorted.

The ring road will not be built for a decade. Buses could be in use by next year, and P&R by the year after.

Thankfully that penny appears to have dropped over the last few years in the council. The GTS, unlike its many predecessors, looks like it will be largely implemented as designed.

Some great things coming for bus users, pedestrians and to a much lesser extent, cyclists. Some not so great things in store for car users though

Bobeagleburger · 12-02-2021 11:06pm

The funds won't be there for a ring road imo. We'll be paying Covid taxes for decades.

I hope they have a good backup plan. However, I don't really trust they do tbh.

steeler j · 13-02-2021 12:07am

6 wrote: »

The funds won't be there for a ring road imo. We'll be paying Covid taxes for decades.

I hope they have a good backup plan. However, I don't really trust they do tbh.

Imo cutting the budget on roads would be the wrong thing to do , already lost a decade on upgrading our road network and we have a backlog of schemes already , increase taxes and continue with the 2040 plan .That investment would help to kickstart a recovery while also taking advantage of low interest rates , increasing taxes is not popular

M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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