22,698 people recovered in Ireland so far. But how many of them are 100% ok after?

ceadaoin. · 12-06-2020 5:16am

JustAThought wrote: »

I see reports from relatively ‘normal’ people in the US who say that their lung function and lung capacity is severely impaired months later from being discharged from hospital, and then we have that ITV presenters husband who is not the only one left unresponsive in a coma after he was declared covid 19 ‘free’ and ‘recovered’ from the covid.

Well Kate Garraways husband was on a ventilator for 10 weeks. Its well known that ventilators cause lung damage and it's 50/50 whether you survive once you go on one, worse if you have covid. Its going to take a long time to come back from that, I hope he can come through it.

Hopefully as more becomes known, doctors can come up with better treatments. I thought there was talk of cpap machines being a better alternative to the high pressure ventilators but haven't seen anything about that in a while.

SusieBlue · 12-06-2020 5:46am

It’s worth noting that asthma, regular pneumonia, and even a very bad chest infection can cause scarring to the lungs and reduced lung capacity too.
This is a side effect of many pulmonary diseases and ailments, not just coronavirus.

I’m asthmatic and it doesn’t give me too much trouble but I was surprised to find that my lungs are scarred after an MRI for an unrelated issue. It’s more common than you would think.

12-06-2020 7:01am

I'm not aware of any illness or injury were a person magically makes a 100% recovery the minute the illness is gone. When you are sick, you might not be able to sleep much at all. Or maybe all you can do is sleep. Your sleeping pattern can be completely destroyed which will impact you for some time. Also, people don't tend to rest enough. The minute they feel slightly better they rush back into a busy routine which can lead to regression. Treatments such as antibiotics can have side effects and take a toll on you as well.

For Covid 19 or any illness for that matter, recovered means that you no longer have the virus. Your body can still take time to get back to normal though. And that will vary from person to person based on circumstances.

Experts have been studying this disease closely all year. We would have heard about it by now if people needed months of physio to walk again or had permanent lung damage. The media love to scaremonger, they would have been all over it. of course there will be some examples but most people recover just fine within a few weeks.

Gruffalux · 12-06-2020 7:07am

Peregrinus wrote: »

I was responding to a claim that the established phenomenon of clinically latent (asymptomatic) CV19 arises because the virus is latent.

It doesn't. While viral latency is, as you point out, a real thing, it has nothing to do with the asymptomatic period of CV19. During the asymptomatic period the virus is not latent, but active.

It is possible that SARS-Cov-2 wil manifest viral latency but so far as I know there is as yet no evidence that it does.

Re viral latency. Potentially.
A newspaper report from a few days ago.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-a-trigger-for-rare-syndrome-which-left-three-children-hospitalised-in-dublin-new-test-confirms-39268316.html

"This new condition has recently been termed Paediatric Inflammatory Multi-System Syndrome - Temporally associated with SARS-CoV-2 (PIMS-TS) and to date has affected around 100 children in the UK with further reports of cases across Europe and the United States.

The blood test, which demonstrates the presence of different types of antibodies to the virus, showed that every child had high levels of anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The pattern of antibodies indicated that the infection most likely occurred weeks or even months previously. This means that antibody testing can be used to help diagnose PIMS-TS, even when virus is not directly detectable in the patient.

Dr Alex Richter, lead researcher and Consultant Immunologist at the University of Birmingham’s Institute of Institute of Immunology and Immunotherapy said: “By focusing on assay development using academic principles, we have designed a sensitive antibody test that can be used to detect exposure to SARS-CoV-2 infections. The test will be used to understand how many people have suffered from COVID-19 in our communities but we have found another use identifying PIMS-TS in these sick children.”

ceadaoin. · 12-06-2020 7:40am

Gruffalox wrote: »

Re viral latency. Potentially.
A newspaper report from a few days ago.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-a-trigger-for-rare-syndrome-which-left-three-children-hospitalised-in-dublin-new-test-confirms-39268316.html

"This new condition has recently been termed Paediatric Inflammatory Multi-System Syndrome - Temporally associated with SARS-CoV-2 (PIMS-TS) and to date has affected around 100 children in the UK with further reports of cases across Europe and the United States.

The blood test, which demonstrates the presence of different types of antibodies to the virus, showed that every child had high levels of anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The pattern of antibodies indicated that the infection most likely occurred weeks or even months previously. This means that antibody testing can be used to help diagnose PIMS-TS, even when virus is not directly detectable in the patient.

Dr Alex Richter, lead researcher and Consultant Immunologist at the University of Birmingham’s Institute of Institute of Immunology and Immunotherapy said: “By focusing on assay development using academic principles, we have designed a sensitive antibody test that can be used to detect exposure to SARS-CoV-2 infections. The test will be used to understand how many people have suffered from COVID-19 in our communities but we have found another use identifying PIMS-TS in these sick children.”

Thats not latency though. The inflammatory syndrome is a secondary condition which develops after the virus is cleared, similar to kawasaki disease. They are just using the presence of antibodies as a way of diagnosing it.

Peregrinus · 12-06-2020 8:27am

Deleted User wrote: »

. . . Experts have been studying this disease closely all year. We would have heard about it by now if people needed months of physio to walk again or had permanent lung damage. The media love to scaremonger, they would have been all over it. of course there will be some examples but most people recover just fine within a few weeks.

For obvious reasons, there have as yet been no studies on the risk or prevalence of long-term sequelae from acute CV-19. But, given what we have observed so far and what is typical of other infections respiratory diseases, it would not be suprising if some patients - hopefully, a small minority, but we can't say yet - did suffer extended, and in some cases permanent, consequences, of varying severity. Time will tell. There is not a lot we can do about it until time does tell.

owlbethere · 14-06-2020 10:02am

The NHPET mentioned the long tail version of this virus, I think last week. They said when someone needs to go to hospital and perhaps into ICU, it is expected that they take months to recover from ICU. It was explained that milder cases of Covid19 that doesn't even require hospital treatment, is taking some time to recover from and even at that people are still not 100%.

I can see why they were slow to report on a long tail illness. They don't want to cause panic and fear in the public but it also was important to report for 2 reasons:
1) to hammer out the message to continue to be cautious and limit crowds and limit chances of picking up the virus.
2) without reporting on the long tail, people were being set up for failure especially small businesses, maybe families with single parents, etc. People will have to have a think and perhaps plan ahead - 'what if I get this virus' 'what of I get a long tail illness' - things like that. Some sort of contingency plans.

ShineOn7 · 14-06-2020 3:50pm

owlbethere wrote: »

The NHPET mentioned the long tail version of this virus, I think last week. They said when someone needs to go to hospital and perhaps into ICU, it is expected that they take months to recover from ICU. It was explained that milder cases of Covid19 that doesn't even require hospital treatment, is taking some time to recover from and even at that people are still not 100%.

I can see why they were slow to report on a long tail illness. They don't want to cause panic and fear in the public but it also was important to report for 2 reasons:
1) to hammer out the message to continue to be cautious and limit crowds and limit chances of picking up the virus.
2) without reporting on the long tail, people were being set up for failure especially small businesses, maybe families with single parents, etc. People will have to have a think and perhaps plan ahead - 'what if I get this virus' 'what of I get a long tail illness' - things like that. Some sort of contingency plans.

Absolutely not good enough!

The long tail/long recovery of many cases of this (even in young healthy people) needs to emphasised more

At the moment it feels like a cover up

Away With The Fairies · 14-06-2020 3:57pm

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Absolutely not good enough!

The long tail/long recovery of many cases of this (even in young healthy people) needs to emphasised more

At the moment it feels like a cover up

I agree. It's not good enough. We need employers to be more understanding with this.

karlitob · 14-06-2020 4:39pm

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Over a third... That is quite alot.

There definitely seems to be a long recovery in some. I know someone with on and off symptoms for about 8 weeks.

This is not a mild illness we were told it would be.

No one (the DoH or HSE) ever said it would be a mild illness.

They said that most people would have mild symptoms (as proved by the large number of asymtpomstics), 20% would have moderate symptoms and 1-5% would have severe symptoms, and who may die. Notwithstanding that we don’t know much about the disease.

If you selectively heard that this would be a mild illness then that’s an issue for you, but we were never told that.

ka2 · 14-06-2020 4:59pm

karlitob wrote: »

If you selectively heard that this would be a mild illness then that’s an issue for you, but we were never told that.

RTE are still saying it! Can’t say I agree with them.

Away With The Fairies · 14-06-2020 4:59pm

karlitob wrote: »

No one (the DoH or HSE) ever said it would be a mild illness.

They said that most people would have mild symptoms (as proved by the large number of asymtpomstics), 20% would have moderate symptoms and 1-5% would have severe symptoms, and who may die. Notwithstanding that we don’t know much about the disease.

If you selectively heard that this would be a mild illness then that’s an issue for you, but we were never told that.

Having mild symptoms is still an illness. We were told that the majority will have mild symptoms, so that's a mild illness.

Some people getting over this in a week. That's a mild illness. Ryan Tubridy had mild symptoms. That was a mild illness.

This is exactly what we were told.

karlitob · 14-06-2020 5:16pm

ka2 wrote: »

RTE are still saying it! Can’t say I agree with them.

No - the poster said the ‘we were told it would be a mild illness’. I said that we weren’t told that - we were told that for some people it would be mild, others moderate and others severe. You then found a clip from rte and proved my point - thank you.

Also - you don’t ‘need to agree’ with RTE. It’s not something that they need or require. Nor is your insight into illness required. The DoH and HSE are the source of truth for disease in ireland. Listen to them - they don’t need your agreement either.

There no real illness that can be described as mild for an entire population. Illness affects people differently. Chicken pox is mild, but can still kill people.

karlitob · 14-06-2020 5:21pm

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Having mild symptoms is still an illness. We were told that the majority will have mild symptoms, so that's a mild illness.

Some people getting over this in a week. That's a mild illness. Ryan Tubridy had mild symptoms. That was a mild illness.

This is exactly what we were told.

No - you said “we were told it would be a mild illness”.

I stated that we were never told that it was a mild illness - we were told that it would be mild for some, moderate for others and severe for a few, causing death. They are not the same things. So it is NOT ‘exactly what we were told’

I then quoted some figures and the other poster put up a link to rte proving my point. That is ‘exactly what we were told’.

We were told that even though most would be asymptomatic or mild, that others may not be so lucky.

Sure why in the name of god would the world go into lockdown if this was a mild illness. Where have you been for the last three months.

karlitob · 14-06-2020 5:26pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Experts have been studying this disease closely all year. We would have heard about it by now if people needed months of physio to walk again or had permanent lung damage. The media love to scaremonger, they would have been all over it. of course there will be some examples but most people recover just fine within a few weeks.

Well that’s not exactly true. Critical care myopathy is a normal consequence of prolonged icu admission etc. and Lung function would likely be affected.

As wards have been empty there has been plenty of time to rehabilitate. But since the healthcare world is always docs and nurses there’s never much focus put on the hard years rehabbing a patient by a wealth of health and social care professionals.

https://www.channel4.com/news/the-reality-of-coronavirus-intensive-care-in-wales-and-long-road-to-recovery

ka2 · 14-06-2020 5:32pm

karlitob wrote: »

No - the poster said the ‘we were told it would be a mild illness’. I said that we weren’t told that - we were told that for some people it would be mild, others moderate and others severe. You then found a clip from rte and proved my point - thank you.

Also - you don’t ‘need to agree’ with RTE. It’s not something that they need or require. Nor is your insight into illness required. The DoH and HSE are the source of truth for disease in ireland. Listen to them - they don’t need your agreement either.

There no real illness that can be described as mild for an entire population. Illness affects people differently. Chicken pox is mild, but can still kill people.

Stop being such an asshole about it. I normally do agree with RTE but this whole thing of "you need to be around an infected person for 20 minutes" is a load of crap. You can pick it up from an infected surface without having being around someone.

karlitob · 14-06-2020 5:36pm

ka2 wrote: »

Stop being such an asshole about it. I normally do agree with RTE but this whole thing of "you need to be around an infected person for 20 minutes" is a load of crap. You can pick it up from an infected surface without having being around someone.

It is not a load of crap - a ‘close contact’ is defined by the HSCP (Hse) as being face to face with an infected Person. You do know that they report the news and can back it up with facts - they didn’t invent this stuff.

Picking it up from infected surfaces Is when you touch your face and eyes etc. Hence the message to wash your hands.

And perhaps engage in the argument rather than calling me names. It’s not a nice thing to do.

ka2 · 14-06-2020 5:38pm

You know what? I'm out. Far too many pricks on this site for my liking.

Danzy · 14-06-2020 5:39pm

Know a person locally, wasn't hospitalized with it but has damage to the heart after it.

karlitob · 14-06-2020 5:47pm

ka2 wrote: »

You know what? I'm out. Far too many pricks on this site for my liking.

That’s probably best since you can’t seem to debate a point with someone who disagrees with you.

Away With The Fairies · 14-06-2020 5:47pm

karlitob wrote: »

No - you said “we were told it would be a mild illness”.

I stated that we were never told that it was a mild illness - we were told that it would be mild for some, moderate for others and severe for a few, causing death. They are not the same things. So it is NOT ‘exactly what we were told’

I then quoted some figures and the other poster put up a link to rte proving my point. That is ‘exactly what we were told’.

We were told that even though most would be asymptomatic or mild, that others may not be so lucky.

Sure why in the name of god would the world go into lockdown if this was a mild illness. Where have you been for the last three months.

We were told that 80% of infections was going to be mild. They never gave any definition of what mild was.

ShineOn7 · 14-06-2020 5:50pm

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

We were told that 80% of infections was going to be mild. They never gave any definition of what mild was.

I very rarely agree with you, but you're right

Even the radio public service Ads had many mentions of "for about 80% of cases, this can be remedied with over the counter medication"

karlitob · 14-06-2020 6:47pm

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

We were told that 80% of infections was going to be mild. They never gave any definition of what mild was.

Now you’re just being obtuse. 80% of infections *are* mild.

There is no formal ‘definition’ of mild. (At least there may be some attempt at a definition in the literature but certainly no consensus - what with this being brand new.) There are only symptoms of Covid-19, as best we know them. And, like all diseases, a spectrum of responses in people. Most people symptoms are mild, for some they are moderate, and others they are severe.

The link is already there from RTE on the numbers. If you want the source of truth then look up the DoH daily report, the HSE daily report or the HPSC daily report.

To help you, I gave a stab at a definition. You could pretty much apply this to all health conditions. That should save you some time.

Severe = ICU and Death; as reported in every daily report from the DoH
Moderate = bad enough to be hospitalised it closely monitored by your GP.
Mild = Not Moderate or Severe.

karlitob · 14-06-2020 6:50pm

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I very rarely agree with you, but you're right

Even the radio public service Ads had many mentions of "for about 80% of cases, this can be remedied with over the counter medication"

What are you on about. She’s not right. She said that ‘they’ said that this was going to be a mild disease. I said that it wasn’t true and 80% of people would have mild symptoms. Then you quote ads that support my point.

Why is there a pandemic and international lockdown of this is a mild disease. It’s a highly contagious disease where most people will have mild symptoms but lots of people will have moderate and severe symptoms which will have the effect of killing people and overwhelming our health services.

This isn’t rocket science.

Away With The Fairies · 14-06-2020 7:41pm

karlitob wrote: »

Now you’re just being obtuse. 80% of infections *are* mild.

There is no formal ‘definition’ of mild. (At least there may be some attempt at a definition in the literature but certainly no consensus - what with this being brand new.) There are only symptoms of Covid-19, as best we know them. And, like all diseases, a spectrum of responses in people. Most people symptoms are mild, for some they are moderate, and others they are severe.

The link is already there from RTE on the numbers. If you want the source of truth then look up the DoH daily report, the HSE daily report or the HPSC daily report.

To help you, I gave a stab at a definition. You could pretty much apply this to all health conditions. That should save you some time.

Severe = ICU and Death; as reported in every daily report from the DoH
Moderate = bad enough to be hospitalised it closely monitored by your GP.
Mild = Not Moderate or Severe.

So the poster above who said they knew someone who wasn't hospitalised and has damage to the heart. Is that mild to you?

Damage to the heart doesn't sound mild to me.

Riesen_Meal · 14-06-2020 7:45pm

My Mam had it and is 100% after, she was hospitalised for 4 days and put on oxegen machine, lucky she had not to go on a ventilator, all in all, start to finish about 5 weeks of feeling like crap...

A 35 year old lad on her ward died so puts it in perspective that I think my mum got away lightly, I count my blessings...

karlitob · 14-06-2020 7:55pm

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So the poster above who said they knew someone who wasn't hospitalised and has damage to the heart. Is that mild to you?

Damage to the heart doesn't sound mild to me.

Now you’ve moved from obtuse to dense.

No - that’s person is not in the mild category, they are in the other 20% of moderate and severe.

owlbethere · 14-06-2020 8:05pm

I thought it was reported approx 80% would get a mild dose. Approx. 20% would be more severe needing hospital care with approx 5% becoming critical and needing ICU.

The 80% that was reported for a mild dose, I thought they meant mild as in not needing hospitalization. We were led to believe in the early days that it would be like a flu for two weeks. The long tail has now been reported and brought into the mix for the 80%. Not everyone would get a long tail but its still tough going for the long tail. My understanding of this is that, it might turn out to be like a malaria type of sickness.

Jim_Hodge · 14-06-2020 8:07pm

karlitob wrote: »

Now you’re just being obtuse. 80% of infections *are* mild.

There is no formal ‘definition’ of mild. (At least there may be some attempt at a definition in the literature but certainly no consensus - what with this being brand new.) There are only symptoms of Covid-19, as best we know them. And, like all diseases, a spectrum of responses in people. Most people symptoms are mild, for some they are moderate, and others they are severe.

The link is already there from RTE on the numbers. If you want the source of truth then look up the DoH daily report, the HSE daily report or the HPSC daily report.

To help you, I gave a stab at a definition. You could pretty much apply this to all health conditions. That should save you some time.

Severe = ICU and Death; as reported in every daily report from the DoH
Moderate = bad enough to be hospitalised it closely monitored by your GP.
Mild = Not Moderate or Severe.

There certainly is a formal medical definition of Mild. You allude to it but underplay it. Mild means not requiring hospitalisation or aggressive medical treatment. Mild cases of Covid can still be extremely debilitating and result in long term medical issues.

karlitob · 15-06-2020 7:53am

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

There certainly is a formal medical definition of Mild. You allude to it but underplay it. Mild means not requiring hospitalisation or aggressive medical treatment. Mild cases of Covid can still be extremely debilitating and result in long term medical issues.

There isn’t really a formal definition of mild symptoms of a particular illness. There can be consensus depending on the disease in the literature.
Admitted or not admitted is a shorthand, practical and day to day definition of mild.
I never said that mild couldn’t have long term medical issues.
Sure a vast number of patients who go to a GP do not get admitted but have long terms issues with mild symptoms. Mild asthma. Mild eczema. Etc.

The poster said we were all told that this disease was mild and us somehow surprised that people died or had some consequences.

Peregrinus · 15-06-2020 7:58am

I think when the lay person hears "mild", they think "mild compared to the diseases that I commonly get - heavy cold, iffy tummy, man-flu, etc". Many cases of CV19 are not at all "mild" in this sense.

karlitob · 15-06-2020 8:00am

owlbethere wrote: »

We were led to believe in the early days that it would be like a flu for two weeks.

We were never told it would be like the flu. We were told that it was not like the flu. Here’s the WHO special Covid-19 envoy explaining

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/ireland-faces-continuous-threat-coronavirus-22174483.amp

And the director general Who on 3rd March

https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---3-march-2020#:~:text=COVID%2D19%20causes%20more,%25%20of%20those%20infected.

karlitob · 15-06-2020 8:06am

Peregrinus wrote: »

I think when the lay person hears "mild", they think "mild compared to the diseases that I commonly get - heavy cold, iffy tummy, man-flu, etc". Many cases of CV19 are not at all "mild" in this sense.

I understand what you’re saying. But the point is that a lot of People with mild Covid-19 Have Symptoms exactly Like what you are suggesting.

There are those with prolonged symptoms, or more Moderate and severe responses - they are clearly not in the mild. And therefore are in the 20% - as best we know about the disease at this stage.

The point is that one said that it is a mild illness. They said that most people will have mild symptoms. Sure we’ve a load of people who are asymptomatic. How much milder can it get?

karlitob · 15-06-2020 8:08am

Peregrinus wrote: »

I think when the lay person hears "mild", they think "mild compared to the diseases that I commonly get - heavy cold, iffy tummy, man-flu, etc". Many cases of CV19 are not at all "mild" in this sense.

And obviously there is no such disease as ‘man-flu’ - which is a sexist and offensive term.

Flu kills people - men and women and I don’t think you should make light of it

weldoninhio · 15-06-2020 8:09am

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

They were away on holidays to an affected region earlier in the year. Chances are that it was Covid-19.

- On holidays
- Symptoms
- Doctor thinks it was false negative

But boards thinks differently.

Why didn't GP get them re-tested??

weldoninhio · 15-06-2020 8:11am

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Latest illness bandwagon... What a way to describe it. Just because you can't see if someone has Lyme disease, it doesn't mean they don't have it.

Maybe you would like something like the smallpox, something you can see.

You seem to know an awful lot of people with an awful lot of unfortunate things happening to them during this pandemic. Not saying you're a Walter Mitty, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.............

karlitob · 15-06-2020 8:24am

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Absolutely not good enough!

The long tail/long recovery of many cases of this (even in young healthy people) needs to emphasised more

At the moment it feels like a cover up

What are you on about?

A cover up? What cover up? Why a cover up? Do you wear tin hats?

This is a NEW disease. We (The entire world) don’t know much about it at all.

Prolonged stays in ICU NORMALLY cause prolonged de-habilitation affecting nearly every part of the body - look up critical care myopathy you see how it affects the muscles. Add in any specific damage to the lungs as a consequence of Covid-19 then it could be even longer.

It’s clear to anyone with a modicum or sense that you cannot tell what the long term consequences are of a disease that is brand new.

Cover up. Maybe you should cover up. Do us all a favour.

Peregrinus · 15-06-2020 8:24am

karlitob wrote: »

I understand what you’re saying. But the point is that a lot of People with mild Covid-19 Have Symptoms exactly Like what you are suggesting.

There are those with prolonged symptoms, or more Moderate and severe responses - they are clearly not in the mild. And therefore are in the 20% - as best we know about the disease at this stage.

The point is that one said that it is a mild illness. They said that most people will have mild symptoms. Sure we’ve a load of people who are asymptomatic. How much milder can it get?

The point is that there is a spectrum of severity, from asymptomatic to grave, even fatal, illness.

When people hear that, say, 80% of cases are "mild", they think "mild" in the sense that I just mentioned. But that's often not what's meant. Many of the 80% of mild cases have what they regard as a really nasty dose, and are as sick as they have ever been, with prolonged consequences. They don't want to hear that they've had a "mild" case, but they have.

karlitob wrote: »

And obviously there is no such disease as ‘man-flu’ - which is a sexist and offensive term.

Flu kills people - men and women and I don’t think you should make light of it

I don't mean to make light of it - "man-flu" is not a flu at all; it's typically a heavy cold. Many people think they've had the flu when they haven't, and when they hear that CV19 may be more severe, or less severe, than the flu, the "flu" they are mentally comparing in their head is nothing like an actual flu.

karlitob · 15-06-2020 8:27am

The Bishop Basher wrote: »

My wife also had all the symptoms but tested negative. If she didn’t have Covid then she must have contracted another severe illness with exactly the same symptoms but that’s unlikely and the GP told her the tests are unreliable and that it’s very likely she had it.

He also told her about a family had had sent for testing. They all had Covid symptoms yet only 2 of them tested positive.

There is no negative test.
Just detected or not detected. Not detected does not mean that you don’t have it. Only that you don’t have sufficient viral load to detect it.

Hope she’s feeling better.

15-06-2020 8:29am

A very fat, unfit, obese man of 55 years had it, was hospitalised and for all the media to see...was on death door by their accounts!!

cut to a few weeks later and he's seen out running in London!!!

Boris Johnson...

Either he didn't have it at all, or tons of people have what may be Undiagnosed Underlying conditions as has been discussed

Akrasia · 15-06-2020 8:30am

Peregrinus wrote: »

The point is that there is a spectrum of severity, from asymptomatic to grave, even fatal, illness.

When people hear that, say, 80% of cases are "mild", they think "mild" in the sense that I just mentioned. But that's often not what's meant. Many of the 80% of mild cases have what they regard as a really nasty dose, and are as sick as they have ever been, with prolonged consequences. They don't want to hear that they've had a "mild" case, but they have.

I don't mean to make light of it - "man-flu" is not a flu at all; it's typically a heavy cold. Many people think they've had the flu when they haven't, and when they hear that CV19 may be more severe, or less severe, than the flu, the "flu" they are mentally comparing in their head is nothing like an actual flu.

I think the HSE are putting out the message that 80% are mild, because if they didn’t, then a lot more people would demand medical treatment rather than tough it out at home and our hospitals couldn’t cope with that

They’re not lying to the public, they’re emphasizing that for most people the best available treatment is resting at home

karlitob · 15-06-2020 8:31am

Peregrinus wrote: »

The point is that there is a spectrum of severity, from asymptomatic to grave, even fatal, illness.

When people hear that, say, 80% of cases are "mild", they think "mild" in the sense that I just mentioned. But that's often not what's meant. Many of the 80% of mild cases have what they regard as a really nasty dose, and are as sick as they have ever been, with prolonged consequences. They don't want to hear that they've had a "mild" case, but they have.

I don't mean to make light of it - "man-flu" is not a flu at all; it's typically a heavy cold. Many people think they've had the flu when they haven't, and when they hear that CV19 may be more severe, or less severe, than the flu, the "flu" they are mentally comparing in their head is nothing like an actual flu.

I know - I’ve already made the point about spectrum of diseases.

I disagree with your interpretation of others people’s interpretation of ‘mild’. But it’s ok to disagree.

Agree with flu vs cold.

I was going for faux outrage with the ‘make light of it’. It is a sexist comment and you’d never say anything derogatory about women and any illnesses a woman might have. But I’m not offended.

Akrasia · 15-06-2020 8:32am

rusty cole wrote: »

A very fat, unfit, obese man of 55 years had it, was hospitalised and for all the media to see...was on death door by their accounts!!

cut to a few weeks later and he's seen out running in London!!!

Boris Johnson...

Either he didn't have it at all, or tons of people have what may be Undiagnosed Underlying conditions as has been discussed

Ever hear of a false dichotomy?

karlitob · 15-06-2020 8:35am

Akrasia wrote: »

I think the HSE are putting out the message that 80% are mild, because if they didn’t, then a lot more people would demand medical treatment rather than tough it out at home and our hospitals couldn’t cope with that

They’re not lying to the public, they’re emphasizing that for most people the best available treatment is resting at home

I sincerely doubt that is what’s happening.

They are not ‘putting out the message’. It’s information that is provided as a public service. Or else the HSE might be accused of a cover up (again).

But the HSE do advise to care for yourself at home if you can. See

https://www2.hse.ie/under-the-weather/

And they also advise on how to care for yourself at home with Covid 19. It’s not a secret.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/managing-coronavirus-at-home/treat-symptoms-at-home.html

hmmm · 15-06-2020 8:55am

Peregrinus wrote: »

When people hear that, say, 80% of cases are "mild", they think "mild" in the sense that I just mentioned. But that's often not what's meant. Many of the 80% of mild cases have what they regard as a really nasty dose, and are as sick as they have ever been, with prolonged consequences. They don't want to hear that they've had a "mild" case, but they have.

"You had a mild case of light pneumonia."

There's so much unknown about this virus and the potential long-term impacts - people are focused only on the initial symptoms. We know about lungs and blood clotting, but potentially also:
Kidneys - https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv/early/2020/04/10/2020.03.04.20031120.full.pdf
Brain and nervous system - https://www.j-alz.com/content/three-stages-covid-19-brain-damage-identified-top-neurologists-journal-alzheimer-disease
Heart - https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/04/covid-19s-consequences-for-the-heart/

This is not just a flu.

15-06-2020 2:29pm

Akrasia wrote: »

Ever hear of a false dichotomy?

no I'm thick and ignorant with a dependency issue where Wikipedia is concerned....a bit like yourself. how much do I owe ye for these pearls of wisdom you're about to adorn me with?

karlitob · 15-06-2020 2:51pm

rusty cole wrote: »

A very fat, unfit, obese man of 55 years had it, was hospitalised and for all the media to see...was on death door by their accounts!!

cut to a few weeks later and he's seen out running in London!!!

Boris Johnson...

Either he didn't have it at all, or tons of people have what may be Undiagnosed Underlying conditions as has been discussed

It’s not clear what point you are trying to make here.

Tonnes have people have been ‘undiagnosed’ with Covid-19 - home and worldwide. Either because they weren’t tested - for a variety of reasons including being asymptomatic so they did not present or the public health policy was to restrict or stop testing; or because there was insufficient viral load to detect Covid-19 and therefore were not diagnosed with an infection that may clinically have.

If your point is that there’s loads of people who have not been diagnosed (if that’s what you mean by ‘undiagnosed’) then this again is true. Tonnes of people - both at home and abroad, may not be diagnosed with an underlying health condition for the same reasons as above, long with poor access to healthcare, poor health literacy etc etc.

You clearly think that there’s some form of conspiracy. Would be great to better understand what your point is and what evidence you have to support it.

ShineOn7 · 16-06-2020 11:11am

Eye opening stuff https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53056785

Coronavirus: Twelve weeks on I can't kick Covid exhaustion

Twelve weeks after his first Covid-19 symptoms, 28-year-old Callum O'Dwyer is still not better.

A fit and healthy young man, he had no underlying health conditions before he caught the virus.
But after five weeks of fighting of the main symptoms, he could no longer look after himself and had to move in with his parents.

Recovery has taken much longer than he imagined and his ongoing symptoms mean he still can't live on his own or work.
Doctors have told Callum he has post-viral fatigue, a hangover from coronavirus which is affecting many survivors.
Nicola Sturgeon was just hours away from announcing lockdown in Scotland on 23 March when Callum first felt ill.

He told BBC Scotland's Drivetime with Fiona Stalker: "I had actually just picked up stuff for my home office to start working from home.
"I felt really fatigued and then nausea and then hour-by-hour it was like an advent calendar of new symptoms - a fever started to develop and then more things kicked off."

He added: "For 10 days I was off my feet with what felt like a really really bad flu. I had never been as sick as that and it was very full-on. Early on, I suspected it was likely to be Covid."
Another thing Callum developed was a persistent shortness of breath and on two occasions he had to call 111 because he was struggling to breathe.

'Rationing energy'

After two weeks most of his symptoms went away and he was left with shortness of breath, fatigue and muscle weakness. They were severe and his doctor said he had hit a post-viral phase in his recovery.
Callum said: "I was resting in my bed for six to eight hours a day and I was struggling to pick things up. I am a 28-year-old guy and not long ago I was running races.

"I had a one litre water bottle and I was struggling to pick that up at arms' length, I was that weak."
He was rationing his energy to do the things he had to - washing dishes, washing clothes. He was struggling to have phone conversations without feeling pain in his abdomen from talking. And mentally not being able to speak to anyone left him in "a bad place" .

He said: "I was unwell in my flat by myself. It constantly felt like I was seeing false summits, thinking I was getting better, I could get over this, but then it got worse again, then it got better and then worse again.
"I made a decision after five weeks that I physically couldn't look after myself anymore."

Free from the virus, he moved into his parents' house a few miles away.
He said: "I was deeply depressed. I moved back into my parents' to effectively get care.
"The first day I got here I was struggling and in pain to get up the stairs."

Callum has improved but now, 12 weeks later he still feels shortness of breath, triggered by any exertion.
He said: "It's so frustrating. I am at 12 weeks and there has been so much false hope. I currently can't live independently and I can't work and that's a very difficult circumstance.

"When we talk about Covid we talk about life and death and there is no conversation about people being affected months later. I think we should put support measures in place for people."

lainey_d_123 · 16-06-2020 6:10pm

I know 10 people who have definitely had it, and 6 of them have had very serious complications and are still extremely unwell, even after weeks. Either with severe respiratory systems or terrible fatigue, like the man in the above post describes. All of these people are previously fit and healthy people under 40. Mostly male, but a good female friend of mine has had it very bad as well.

The notion that we were fed at the beginning of all of this, that it was just a bad flu, was a huge lie. It's clear that in the best case scenario, the effects can last for weeks in a huge proportion of patients. The worst case scenario may look much, much worse. Maybe lifelong damage. It's a really, really nasty virus.

ShineOn7 · 16-06-2020 7:58pm

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I know 10 people who have definitely had it.

That's a crazy number. I believe you, but crazy all the same

Even allowing for "friends of friends" and "sister in law's Aunty" type of connections I still only know of three who've had it. A HSE worker and two people in nursing homes, 3 people who were in very high risk situations

22,698 people recovered in Ireland so far. But how many of them are 100% ok after?

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