American response

ceadaoin. · 04-07-2020 10:24am

hetuzozaho wrote: »

800million sounds like peanuts to some of the companies involved in the strip! They'd probably be interested in getting things up and running anyway?

Yes it is to some of the companies! but we're talking about a state budget. Gaming revenue is what funds nevada, like it or not, and that dropped by 99% during the lockdown. I doubt that many of the casinos could survive another full shutdown, and as a result schools, libraries, public services, and countless individuals will suffer. But all those will suffer in the case of a large outbreak also. like I said, we're in a bind. I hope neither happens.

is_that_so · 04-07-2020 2:03pm

Interesting contrast between the US and European approach on wage supports.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/business/economy/europe-us-jobless-coronavirus.html

threeball · 04-07-2020 4:41pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Pity we can't do the same here. They'll be flooding in for the weekend after their bars closed, even more so with the day thats in it.

We, as in the state, are in a bind, we need the money but we don't want the virus spreading either. The state budget is in a 800$ million deficit after the shutdowns, if it has to happen again Vegas is done for a few years at least. I hope people can follow the mandatory mask rule for everyone's sake.

We don't have to be here but it's our home now, we'll stick it out as long as we can.

You've fairly changed your tune from a few weeks ago, finally getting that opening up was nuts?

If the state can't cope with an 800million deficit then it was fcuked anyway. Ireland will be 15bn in the hole when this is done but we'll muddle through. Its no wonder they didn't give any decent government supports in the states when you can sink a state with less than a billion of debt.

At this stage the horse has bolted. Too many have decided not to respect the advice about this virus mainly thanks to Trump. Its herd immunity or bust for the states. Trump wanted isolationism and he finally got it because no one wants Americans in their country at this point and have shut their borders to them.

joseywhales · 04-07-2020 4:50pm

I wonder for future pandemics if we can create a circuit breaker functionality in society, For example if we had the mechanism to isolate every human in a country for 14 days, you would effectively kill off the virus within a admittedly painful 14 day period, doesn't seem so painful considering this protracted debacle. Would have been vastly better economically also. I did this because it was easy for me, not everyone has the resources to do it but perhaps we could build the infrastructure to isolate every person for future pandemics. Do you think it would cost more than 2 trillion dollars?

ceadaoin. · 04-07-2020 6:26pm

threeball wrote: »

You've fairly changed your tune from a few weeks ago, finally getting that opening up was nuts?

If the state can't cope with an 800million deficit then it was fcuked anyway. Ireland will be 15bn in the hole when this is done but we'll muddle through. Its no wonder they didn't give any decent government supports in the states when you can sink a state with less than a billion of debt.

.

States arent allowed to have deficits

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/4/22/21228229/coronavirus-bailout-money-state-austerity-budget-shortfall

hetuzozaho · 04-07-2020 7:56pm

joseywhales wrote: »

I wonder for future pandemics if we can create a circuit breaker functionality in society, For example if we had the mechanism to isolate every human in a country for 14 days, you would effectively kill off the virus within a admittedly painful 14 day period, doesn't seem so painful considering this protracted debacle. Would have been vastly better economically also. I did this because it was easy for me, not everyone has the resources to do it but perhaps we could build the infrastructure to isolate every person for future pandemics. Do you think it would cost more than 2 trillion dollars?

Yeah I was thinking about future ones and that it's shocking that the US couldn't afford this. And everywhere else tbf. Will changes be made so that a country can afford to isolate like you are saying.

Easy for my line of work too. But I'd like to see a society where people could stop jobs that needed contact and survive for a length of time.

Maybe it's not how things will ever be set up. Are societies too caught up in advancing and maybe need to set aside some way of being able to sustain what we have for a 6month period.

Any podcasts / links recommendations of anything remotely like that would be welcomed!

hetuzozaho · 04-07-2020 7:59pm

His latest musing on the pandemic....
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1279487627977252864

joseywhales · 05-07-2020 3:26pm

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Yeah I was thinking about future ones and that it's shocking that the US couldn't afford this. And everywhere else tbf. Will changes be made so that a country can afford to isolate like you are saying.

Easy for my line of work too. But I'd like to see a society where people could stop jobs that needed contact and survive for a length of time.

Maybe it's not how things will ever be set up. Are societies too caught up in advancing and maybe need to set aside some way of being able to sustain what we have for a 6month period.

Any podcasts / links recommendations of anything remotely like that would be welcomed!

We were definitely unprepared even though we knew it was basically certain there would be pandemics. Many other risks too from bacteria that are increasingly resistant to anti biotics to our intense farming of highly densely populated poor health mammals, not to mention the wet markets and human population density and poor sanitation. One would imagine we will adapt health infrastructure and try to reduce some of the risks but we are humans after all, probably not, we can't see past one year.

fly_agaric · 06-07-2020 12:07pm

joseywhales wrote: »

I wonder for future pandemics if we can create a circuit breaker functionality in society, For example if we had the mechanism to isolate every human in a country for 14 days, you would effectively kill off the virus within a admittedly painful 14 day period, doesn't seem so painful considering this protracted debacle. Would have been vastly better economically also. I did this because it was easy for me, not everyone has the resources to do it but perhaps we could build the infrastructure to isolate every person for future pandemics. Do you think it would cost more than 2 trillion dollars?

It is an interesting idea but as with a lot of the response to this disaster you really need a hefty and efficient public sector at the ready to pull it off (presume it would be likes of the army or some sort of civil defence organisation keeping things ticking over during a very strict quarantine in conjunction with key public sector workers).

It's been clear for decades that all businesses/companies and a decent chunk of the public in Western countries do not want to pay to maintain what we have now, let alone beefing up the public sector capabilities so you can pull off something like that in an emergency.

Have never lived there but I get impression the distrust of the state at all levels and a strong antipathy to giving it more resources (i.e. tax) to do things effectively is much worse in the US than is typical here in Ireland, even among "democrat" leaning voters.

threeball · 06-07-2020 4:26pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

It is an interesting idea but as with a lot of the response to this disaster you really need a hefty and efficient public sector at the ready to pull it off (presume it would be likes of the army or some sort of civil defence organisation keeping things ticking over during a very strict quarantine in conjunction with key public sector workers).

It's been clear for decades that all businesses/companies and a decent chunk of the public in Western countries do not want to pay to maintain what we have now, let alone beefing up the public sector capabilities so you can pull off something like that in an emergency.

Have never lived there but I get impression the distrust of the state at all levels and a strong antipathy to giving it more resources (i.e. tax) to do things effectively is much worse in the US than is typical here in Ireland, even among "democrat" leaning voters.

The yanks would make you laugh. No interest (either republican or democrat) in having decent services, welfare or healthcare but are quite happy to see tax dollars pished away on phony wars and "homeland security" which actually make the country less safe, more insular and paranoid. They've swallowed the government bs for so long that the lies have become truths and vice versa.

alchemist33 · 08-07-2020 4:50pm

The US Health Secretary has assurwd the schools sector that, as healthcare workers take precautions and don't get Covid, they'll be able to get back to school soon too. 94,000 US healthcare workers have contracted Covid.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/07/08/trump-health-secretary-says-us-healthcare-workers-dont-get-infected-covid-19-94000

It must be really frustrating working in the healthcare sector there knowing your top official a) doesn't know his job and b) likely doesn't care.

kyote00 · 08-07-2020 5:28pm

Trump sounds 100% sane compared to Kanye ......
https://www.breakingnews.ie/showbiz/kanye-west-says-he-is-anti-abortion-and-anti-vaccination-in-presidential-bid-1009988.html

Wakanda ?

hetuzozaho wrote: »

His latest musing on the pandemic....
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1279487627977252864

Professor Moriarty · 08-07-2020 5:30pm

kyote00 wrote: »

Trump sounds 100% sane compared to Kanye ......
https://www.breakingnews.ie/showbiz/kanye-west-says-he-is-anti-abortion-and-anti-vaccination-in-presidential-bid-1009988.html

Wakanda ?

That's hilarious!

Harry Palmr · 08-07-2020 6:19pm

I was assuming that Kanye would be a problem for Biden but it turns out he is crazier than Trump (shows how much I know about billionaire US rappers)

Jim_Hodge · 08-07-2020 6:34pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I was assuming that Kanye would be a problem for Biden but it turns out he is crazier than Trump (shows how much I know about billionaire US rappers)

My fear is that, while Kanye hasn't a ghost of a chance, he'll take votes that Biden might have picked up and the margins are very tight.

kenmc · 08-07-2020 7:14pm

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

My fear is that, while Kanye hasn't a ghost of a chance, he'll take votes that Biden might have picked up and the margins are very tight.

Probably also take a chunk from trump too.

pjohnson · 08-07-2020 7:47pm

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

My fear is that, while Kanye hasn't a ghost of a chance, he'll take votes that Biden might have picked up and the margins are very tight.

Banging the anti-vax and anti-abotion drum would surely harm Trump's numbers?

Jim_Hodge · 08-07-2020 7:50pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Banging the anti-vax and anti-abotion drum would surely harm Trump's numbers?

Yes but they'd be better getting votes away from Trump and to Biden.

Tell me how · 08-07-2020 7:50pm

Might work in Biden's favour in encouraging people to go out and vote who might not be bothered if they think it's a dead cert.

Time will tell.

kyote00 · 08-07-2020 8:08pm

Kanye says (about himself) :

“That is a positive idea: you got Kanye West, one of the most powerful humans — I’m not saying the most because you got a lot of alien level superpowers and it’s only collectively that we can set it free.”

To be fair, looking at KimK gigantic ass all the time would drive anyone mad

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I was assuming that Kanye would be a problem for Biden but it turns out he is crazier than Trump (shows how much I know about billionaire US rappers)

ChikiChiki · 08-07-2020 10:01pm

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1280853299600789505?s=19

He must be smoking crack.

froog · 08-07-2020 10:13pm

US on track to break 1000 deaths today. how will trump attempt to spin this?

Timberrrrrrrr · 08-07-2020 10:16pm

froog wrote: »

US on track to break 1000 deaths today. how will trump attempt to spin this?

"They only died because we did so much testing"

Leroy42 · 08-07-2020 10:39pm

froog wrote: »

US on track to break 1000 deaths today. how will trump attempt to spin this?

Wasn't it sticking to around 680 or so for a week or two? Still way less than the 2700+(I think) during the NY height but that is 30% increase over a few days.

All the indicators are the this is the wave of deaths after the surge of cases, and since no drop in cases this increased death numbers could last a few weeks.

froog · 08-07-2020 11:01pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Wasn't it sticking to around 680 or so for a week or two? Still way less than the 2700+(I think) during the NY height but that is 30% increase over a few days.

All the indicators are the this is the wave of deaths after the surge of cases, and since no drop in cases this increased death numbers could last a few weeks.

they've turned it into a partisan issue and its too late now. their only hope is that immunity lasts a long time, otherwise they are looking at a horrifying number of dead people.

Christy42 · 09-07-2020 7:59am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

"They only died because we did so much testing"

"They are only listed as covid deaths because we did so much testing".

They have a sudden surge in pneumonia deaths and I reckon Trump would like to add to it instead of covid.

2020 partial year
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1113051/number-reported-deaths-from-covid-pneumonia-and-flu-us/

Compare with full 2017
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/pneumonia.htm

Leroy42 · 09-07-2020 8:14am

What gets me is that on any measurement, even by his own statements, Trump is doing a spectacularly bad job in relation to C19 and yet there are still so many that are willing to stand with him and defend him (although in many cases it is really a defence of Trump, more an attack on 'others').

But even if you agree on Trump's targets, WHO, China, it still doesn't absolve him of the pitiful response and reaction to the threat. Would people be as happy if China were to actually launch a missile attack on US and Trump did nothing at all to protect people but merely repeated how it was all China's fault? Although given the response to the Russia paying bounty to kill US troops was to basically do nothing then I suppose we all know the answer.

I have both struggled, and admired, in the past to understand the particular form of patriotism that is evident in the US. We are the best, nobody messes with us, we can No1 at everything etc. Yet those very patriots seem very happy to let their country continue to fail as long as their man is in the WH?

Makes no sense to me.

Wanderer78 · 09-07-2020 8:22am

Leroy42 wrote:

Makes no sense to me.

Makes perfect sense to me, when you ve been told from birth you're from the most exceptional country in the world, the greatest in fact, that everyone can achieve anything they want, if they're willing to work for it, but when it fails, it's clearly other people's fault, particularly those pesky foreigners, and most certainly not their own ruling classes, and when a man of the people(ruling class) turns up and says we ll sort out those pesky foreigners once and for all, as they're not just taking our jobs but are also selling us drugs and raping our women folk, well you can get the picture....

Christy42 · 09-07-2020 11:03am

So do 0% income tax states essentially get destroyed in all of this? I know they tend to have high sales tax but presumably even if people are working from home sales are taking a big hit with shops being closed.

Wonder if that is why the likes of Texas and Florida are so keen to reopen/stay open.Their system can't handle a lockdown.

Like 2008 I feel like economic systems need a review. I have seen the most common investment advice is to ensure yo have savings if at all possible to survive a hit. If larger entities struggle in these times then we should see a review of how they do business as it is obviously not up to scratch.

MadYaker · 09-07-2020 11:21am

Just read an article on the Wall Street journal about the increasing cases putting a strain on the testing capacity. In Florida it can take some people a week to get results. By then contact tracing is pointless.

American response

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