Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Dublin Directories

135

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭nikonuser


    Shane, again many thanks. I will follow up as you suggest, cheers, J


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    nikonuser wrote: »
    Shane, you seem to have been inundated with requests for Thom’s searches.

    Any chance of checking one for me?

    Practice every day has made
    Shanew perfect in his trade
    He gives wisdom day and night
    Turning darkness into light!

    (Apologies to Sidelius and Mr. Flower!)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    Rather than inundating Shane W with requests for data from Thom's and other directories, it should be remembered that a virtually full set of Thom's directories are on the open shelves of Dublin City Library and Archive, 138-144 Pearse Street, Dublin 2.
    Those who have not used this superb resource, just need the usual two forms of ID to register and access the collection.

    To my mind, Thom's directories are the most underused source for local and family history for Dublin and also other areas. Depending on the period, Dublin city was only reached on page 1349 or 1375. Before that are lists relating to every local authority, poor law union and professionals, clergy etc in Ireland, lists of aristocrats, army and navy officers, privy councillors etc throughout the UK. I even found an ancestor working in a colonial position, complete with his salary in rupees, you could see his pay increase each year.

    For many, this will seem like useless information, but you never know when some of it may become relevant. It was the internet of it's day.

    Thom's directory started about 1844, there was a short overlap with Pettigrew & Oulton. Before this, there was Wilson's directory, published as part of the treble almanac. Some are pre 1800. Of course this was more basic, lists of different trades etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    hardly inundated - anyway the searches are always interesting..... find something new or learn about an unfamiliar part of Dublin each time

    feel free to keep the requests coming...

    As far as I know Pettigrew & Oulton 1834 was the first with a street listing, before that directories like Watson / Wilson / Treble include only alphabetic lists for merchants and traders. I've created a virtual street listing for Watson 1783 directory - e.g. Grafton St.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Hermy wrote: »
    A general enquiry if I may...

    Does anyone know if Thom's have a recent street directory for Waterford similar to what's currently available for Dublin?
    shanew wrote: »
    most recent one I have is 1943/44 - a listing by trades for towns and cities.

    inc. Waterford city, Dungarvan, Tramore, Lismore etc

    I just remembered I have a 1961 Thom's Part 3, which is the one that covers Towns and cities outside Dublin - including a trades listing for Waterford city etc


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    shanew wrote: »
    I just remembered I have a 1961 Thom's Part 3, which is the one that covers Towns and cities outside Dublin - including a trades listing for Waterford city etc

    I was actually looking for something much more recent and directory enquiries were able to help in the long run. Thanks anyway.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Hermy wrote: »
    I was actually looking for something much more recent and directory enquiries were able to help in the long run. Thanks anyway.

    my use of the term 'recent' is probably a bit skewed ...

    btw in case anyone hasn't seen a Thom's up close, there are two relatively complete versions, including the additional sections mentioned by Tabbey on Google books - see 1850 and 1852. These are OCR'd so in addition to browsing the images some searching is allowed..

    There are also several Treble Almanacs and at least one Pettigrew & Oulton on Google Books.


  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭nikonuser


    Shane,
    Many thanks for the links. they are huge books, a wealth of reading & well worth a search for names & places we recognise.
    Cheers, J


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Shane

    I'm wondering how long Richard Reeves Smyth and his wife Alice (nee Pelly) remained in Lucan after the census if you get a chance to check.

    Thanks

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Hermy wrote: »
    ..I'm wondering how long Richard Reeves Smyth and his wife Alice (nee Pelly) remained in Lucan after the census if you get a chance to check...

    He appears in listings with an address of Griffin Lodge, Lucan up to 1918, but is not listed in any from 1919 onward


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭nikonuser


    Shane, I looked at the 2 links for Thom's Directories on Google Books you posted. I quickly found what you previously said re my request on Barrow St and my G G Granddad, Patrick Dodd. He is listed in no.5 in both 1850 & 1852. I am still under the impression that he owned 2, 5, 9 & 10 if he didn't appear to be involved in the original building of them. As he is listed for no.5 does that mean that he owned it? Could he have owned 2, 9 & 10 as well, though here are other names for these houses in Thom's for these years?
    J


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    nikonuser wrote: »
    ...Patrick Dodd....listed in no.5 in both 1850 & 1852. I am still under the impression that he owned 2, 5, 9 & 10 if he didn't appear to be involved in the original building of them. As he is listed for no.5 does that mean that he owned it? Could he have owned 2, 9 & 10 as well, though here are other names for these houses in Thom's for these years?
    J

    Thom's lists the householder or business owner - so no way to tell from that if a particular person owned a particular property or not. Griffith's shows the immediate lessors in 1854, these would be the owners or intermediates at that time - no mention of your Patrick then. Maybe he acted as an agent for one the the owners or intermediates, and collected the rent on their behalf. The valuation books should show if he took over the properties at a later stage..


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    shanew wrote: »
    He appears in listings with an address of Griffin Lodge, Lucan up to 1918, but is not listed in any from 1919 onward

    Interesting house - just not finding deaths for Richard or Alice in the usual places.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭nikonuser


    Cheers for that Shane, J


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Hermy wrote: »
    ....just not finding deaths for Richard or Alice in the usual places.

    I had a look earlier also, and spotted nothing obvious - thought the distinctive name might stand out. He appears in the directory listings after 1914 under R - as in 'Reeves, R. Smyth' (format - surname, firstnames), although the census form suggest Reeves is his middle name, and Smith his surname.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    It does chop and change between various iterations.
    His mother was Reeves and father was Smyth.
    He was baptised Richard Reeves Mary Assumpta Smyth.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    Alice died 21 May 1962
    Richard died 10 May 1966


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    You're spoiling me KF!

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    You're welcome! Richard stars in a few articles: fined £20 for no insurance; involved in a dispute about inheritance tax; dispute about the Theatre Royal taking light from his premises.... interesting chap.

    Richard died in Portobello Nursing home according to a legal ad looking for his creditors.

    Here's the marriage announcement:


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    KildareFan wrote: »
    You're welcome! Richard stars in a few articles: fined £20 for no insurance; involved in a dispute about inheritance tax; dispute about the Theatre Royal taking light from his premises.... interesting chap.

    Tis great when people fall foul of the law - such wonderful paper trails they leave behind!:)

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,538 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Hermy wrote: »
    Tis great when people fall foul of the law - such wonderful paper trails they leave behind!:)

    A small fine for poorly controlled pigs on the road let me eliminate a rake of certs and get the correct death cert for someone. The wonders of minor (unintentional) crime!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    L1011 wrote: »
    A small fine...

    I've said it before but it's amazing how sometimes the smallest detail can reveal so much.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    I know the County Library in Tallaght has a lot of Thom's Directories on the shelves. When I searched Tallaght online I found 392 items throughout Dublin libraries for Thom's Directories, some early and some recent, and some on CD ROM.

    http://librariesireland.iii.com/iii/encore/search/C__SThom's%20Directory__Orightresult__U?lang=eng&suite=def


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    South Dublin Libraries also have extracts as images from Thoms online - Palmerstown, Golden Bridge, Island Bridge, Kilmainham, Rathfarnham, Roundtown, Lucan etc. See the Directory Database ...


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Shane, whenever you get a chance I wonder would you mind checking 32 Kildare Street for Hearne please?
    The Electoral Rolls lists Daniel Joseph O'Brien living there up until 1915 - a barrister according to the census.
    The John Robert Hearne gives his fathers address as 32 Kildare Street on his RAF service record in late 1918.
    The father was stationed in the RIC barracks in Kilcoole, Co. Wicklow in 1911 and at Harold's Cross Cottages when he died in 1927.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    32 Kildare Street (close to junction with Schoolhouse lane on the west side of the street)

    1914 - Daniel J. O'Brien barrister
    1917 - Mrs. Hearne
    1919 - Irish Butter Export Committee (Ministry of Food)
    1922 - Irish Dairy (Producers & Shippers) Association. Sec. D. Hegarty


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    shanew wrote: »
    32 Kildare Street (close to junction with Schoolhouse lane on the west side of the street)

    1914 - Daniel J. O'Brien barrister
    1917 - Mrs. Hearne
    1919 - Irish Butter Export Committee (Ministry of Food)
    1922 - Irish Dairy (Producers & Shippers) Association. Sec. D. Hegarty

    That's the place Shane - thank you.
    Now to figure out how they came to be living there.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 45 tenterfields


    16 Old Camden Street, Dublin

    Hi
    I'm wondering if there is any record of occupiers at the above address around 1880-1881. I'm looking for O'Briens. I would appreciate any help. Many thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    have listings for Camden Street Upper & Lower - didn't see a separate entry for Camden Street Old - will check is more detail this evening.


  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Earnest


    shanew wrote: »
    have listings for Camden Street Upper & Lower - didn't see a separate entry for Camden Street Old - will check is more detail this evening.

    Camden Street Old was a street, recently extinguished, leading from Camden Street Upper to Harcourt Road, originally the beginning of Mountpleasant Avenue before the Canal was built. Its position is shown by the odd building line in Camden Street Upper at the Bleeding Horse. Hope this helps.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    16 Old Camden Street, Dublin...
    I'm wondering if there is any record of occupiers at the above address around 1880-1881. I'm looking for O'Briens.....

    checked 1879, 1880 and 1885 and all include Camden Street Old in the street index as off Harcourt Rd. (Camden St. Upr. is off Harrington St.), but no separate street listing, just the entries for Upper & Lower.

    Based on a comparison of the 1911 census, which lists the street separately, and a 1914 directory it looks like buildings on Old Camden Street are listed under Camden Street Upper e.g Harvey's Oyster bar at no. 23.

    If that's the case then numbers 13 to 24 Upper Camden Street were probably Camden St. Old - which would include no. 16. Unfortunately No. 16 is missing from the street listing in 1879 & 1880 listings, skips from 13 Thomas Rudd house painter to 17 Mr. Michael Cavanagh. Mr. Cavanagh is still at 17 in 1885, and 13 is Mary Reilly dairy (no numbers 14-16).


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 tenterfields


    Hi Shane
    Well, that's a pity. However, I really appreciate all the trouble you took to answer my query. Thank you very much.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    Some residents of 16 Old Camden Street from the newspaper archives - no O'Briens so far!

    M’Phele, -August 28 at 16 Old Camden Street Cornelius M’Phele, aged 57 years. His remains will be removed this day (Friday) for interment in Mount Jerome Cemetery [Freeman’s Journal 30 Aug 1878 p1]

    Burke – December 1 1884, Alice Mary Burke, second eldest daughter of Denis and Bridget Burke R.I.P. Funeral will leave 16 Old Camden Street at 10 o’clock to-morrow (Wednesday) morning. American papers please copy. [Freeman’s Journal 2 Dec 1884 p1]

    1887 John Murray 16 Old Camden Street, was charged on remand with th embezzlement of 2s 6d, the property of his employer Mr Henry Calvert, 70 Rathmines road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 tenterfields


    KildareFan
    That's most interesting. The variety of names at the address in relatively few years suggests to me that 16 Camden Street was probably a tenement house with a number of families in residence.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Shane, if I can trouble you again could you check if Joseph Murray was living in 2 Annesley Park, Rathmines/ Ranelagh in 1901 as that street isn't showing up on the 1901 Census.

    EDIT: I note you had a thread about this some time ago on RootsChat and Annesley was never filmed.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    thought the street sounded familiar...

    I dont have 1901 exactly, but can do either side of it :

    No. 2 Annesley Park Park, Ranelagh (off Dunville Ave.)

    1899 : Mr. Thomas D. Jones
    1904 : Mr. Francis Grant
    1906 : " "
    1914 : T. O. Rutledge


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    That's strange. Joseph Hugh Murray gave his address as No. 2 for the birth of his son in 1899 and daughter in 1902.

    Do you know if Annesley Park census return is available to view at the archives?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    they could have been lodgers or a shared address ? - the names seem to change frequently in the listings

    I dont know if the actual pages are available, I'm sure there are a few lost or missing, but most of those missing from the online records are just unfilmed, the NAI do have them - so worth checking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    Perhaps he was lodging there , or the occupier could have been a relative with a different surname, an in law maybe.
    Dunville Avenue is enumerated with house numbers in the 400s, it is likely that many thoroughfares are included in this, and the enumerator just lumped them all together.
    He probably did the same in other streets also.

    John Grenham often mentioned how addresses missing from the digitised census, could be tracked by finding an adjacent house, removing the last digit from the page number, and substituting the next number. Continuing this on a long line of pages would be time consuming, but it depends how anxious one is to find the missing return.
    Otherwise, wait until the NAI reopen after the refurbishment, probably next month, and ask for the original.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    the full street listings for 1899 and 1904...

    396573.jpg


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    By 1906 he was at Beechwood Avenue Upper where the family lived for some time so perhaps he was just lodging up until then.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    1906 - 65B Mr. Joseph A. Murray

    edit : he's at 65B Upr. Beechwood in 1904..


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    His wife and Ernest Moore's wife living next door were sisters.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    extract for Beechwood Ave. Upr for '04 & '06, for ref

    396576.jpg


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Great replies as ever Shane - thanks very much.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,672 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Shane

    Do you have anything around 1937 for Dublin?

    If so, could you please check 21 Seapark Road, Dollymount (Clontarf now).

    Cursing the loss of the electoral register online. I'll have to go into Pearse on Saturday.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    This probably won't help but Walter Heinrich, Annerose, and Ottilie Heitler were living at 21 Seapark Road in 1946 when they were granted citizenship certificates [report in Irish Press 30 Oct 1946 p2]


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    Further to 21 Seapark Road:

    Walter Heitler was studying cosmic rays at the Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies between 1941 & 1949 [Irish Press 8 August 1959]; his mother Ottilie Heitler died 26 May 1972, still living in Seapark [Irish Press 29 Jan 1973 p14]. The house was sold in 1973 [see advertisement & photo in Irish Independent 18 May 1973 p24]


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,672 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Fascinating! So it was probably a rented house then.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    Yes - it looks like the Heitlers arrived in 1941. Walter was actually a renowned physicist & made an important contribution to quantum physics. He worked with Schrodinger in Dublin, until 1949 when he went to the University of Zurich - leaving the mammy back in Seapark Road. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Heitler


Advertisement