RaboPro12 13/14 season thread

phog wrote: »

Ulster's downfall last year was taking the final to the RDS, I know the final is managed by Rabo but it was still home to Leinster and was an away game for Ulster, this season if Ulster top the table and get through to the final then they'll have the game in Ravenhill and will be much harder to beat there.

This season I'd be hoping for a marked improvement from Munster, some of the games we lost were sickening and for me this season should be all about a big step up in the league, the H/cup is the be all and end all from a competition point of view but the league is our bread and butter, the development and progression of our squad depends on a strong league performance. It should be a top prioirity this season for Munster to aim for a Top 2 place.
In saying all that give me another H/cup semi final game this season and I'd be happy to take the chance of getting into the final.

Ulster had won at the RDS before. Fortress RDS, Thomond or Ravenhill will be diminished in an All Ireland final due to the relatively equal allocation of tickets. There is way more to winning a final than home advantage and it starts with the six inches between your ears. I would like to be wrong, because I think Ulster are the best hope we have to get to a Heineken final next year, but i dont think Ulster will do it on the really big stage.

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Williams on buttons, Muller and Afoa gone.

Pienaar will still be on the big bucks. Jared Payne... first project player to get a central contract? How would people feel about that?

Pienaar's contract will be up too. Given that Ulster were already allowed to extend his contract once and he'll have had 4 years in Ireland, I think he'll be shown the door too.

Other factors will possibly come into play also. Ulster have an Irish international sitting on the bench and Munster have been reportedly keen to sign a NIQ scrum half but weren't allowed.

Buer wrote: »

Pienaar's contract will be up too. Given that Ulster were already allowed to extend his contract once and he'll have had 4 years in Ireland, I think he'll be shown the door too.

Other factors will possibly come into play also. Ulster have an Irish international sitting on the bench and Munster have been reportedly keen to sign a NIQ scrum half but weren't allowed.

Describing Paul Marshall as an "Irish international" is technically correct, but I don't think the IRFU are busting a gut to see him get more gametime.

I also don't see much difference between giving Pienaar another contract and Botha getting a new contract in May - he'd been in Ireland for five years when he signed his latest extension, was older than Pienaar will be when his contract is up, and plays in a more problematic postion, IQ-personnel-wise. If we don't replace Muller, they might let us keep him.

On the other hand, let's see how he plays this season, given it'll be his thrid season of year-round playing. Him being absolutely knackered might be a significant hurdle for Ulster. He might need to lie down for six months after next May.

Having said that, I don't think we can complain if we're not allowed to renew his contract. We have had a significant strech with him at the tiller.

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Describing Paul Marshall as an "Irish international" is technically correct, but I don't think the IRFU are busting a gut to see him get more gametime.

I also don't see much difference between giving Pienaar another contract and Botha getting a new contract in May - he'd been in Ireland for five years when he signed his latest extension, was older than Pienaar will be when his contract is up, and plays in a more problematic postion, IQ-personnel-wise. If we don't replace Muller, they might let us keep him.

They might be allowed to keep him but, similar to Munster, they'll have to give some leeway. Munster had to cut short WdP's contract to keep Botha. I think Munster also had the argument of turning to the IRFU and pointing to Stephen Archer whilst exclaiming "Come on! You can't be serious?"

I know Marshall isn't exactly top class. I don't rate him highly at all but he has started big HEC games when Pienaar wasn't there which puts him into a different bracket to someone like Archer who is untested completely at that level.

With the number of departures in Ulster next season, I do think there'll be some deal cut though. The most likely, I'd have thought, would be allowing them to sign another big name tighthead to replace Afoa based on the fact that Botha will be on his bike too and Leinster won't have any NIQ tighthead.

This season could be one of the more interesting seasons the league has seen. Leinster are still a force to be reckoned with, but having lost a huge component to their game in Sexton as well as one of the best coaches around in Joe there really is no telling what the coming months have in store for Leinster fans. The loss of Nacewa is huge as well, but also the loss of Carr and Conway depleting an already threadbare situation in the back 3, will have massive implications on their league form. That Sideshow won't be here until November is the final kick in the sore parts with all of the above. You'd expect Leinster to be there or there-abouts though wouldn't you?

Ulster need to win something this year after the last few years of knocking on the door. With their NIQs probably leaving at the end of the season this could pose serious problems for them next year. The loss of Muller alone will be massive. We've seen the difference he can make at times. And Pienaar too obviously. There's still plenty of talent in the side, but the pack short of Afoa and Muller with Pienaar bossing them surely can't be as strong as it is now.

Then there's Munster, who looked a shadow of their former selves for much of last season. But they seemed to come good towards the end (final dead rubber game aside) and with Stander, van der Heever and Conway all coming into the side they seem to be getting over their transition period. The big question mark for Munster is whether Keatley can make his mark at out-half. Plenty of us were pushing for his selection over ROG last season, now he doesn't have anyone ahead of him can Keately deliver the goods?

Connacht have made easily the best signing of the year in Craig Clarke and with Lam in charge could see serious improvements this season. Certainly if you compare the players out to the players in they have come out of the summer very well. I wouldn't be surprised to see them push up a few spots on the table this season.

The team I'm tipping this year though is Glasgow. They will be missing their scrum-half to injury for a few weeks, but they seemed last season to have more than just a reliance on a single player. They became a very well drilled side as last season progressed and were easily the most improved team over the course of the season. Townsend is doing some really good work up there and I reckon we'll see them start this season the way they ended last.

Ospreys are always in and around the play-offs, but they'll probably struggle again this season I think. Both themselves and Scarlets have lost a few players and have failed to adequately replace them. Outside of these sides I can't see much changing. Treviso will improve, but Edinburgh, Cardiff, Newport and Zebre will all continue to struggle.

Either way I reckon Glasgow will do well this season where-as it's hard to tell how any of the Irish provinces will fare at this stage. I'm going to go with the below with at least 8-10 point gaps between 4th and 5th as well as 8th and 9th.

1. Glasgow
2. Ulster
3. Leinster
4. Munster

5. Ospreys
6. Scarlet
7. Treviso
8. Connacht

9. Edinburgh
10. Cardiff
11. Newport
12. Zebre

The interesting thing being that we've no idea really how the top 3 Irish provinces will do this year. That could easily throw the cat amongst the pigeons and narrow (or even close completely) the gap between the top 4 and the middle 4.

Buer wrote: »

Big fan of Wilson as a player. Very intelligent, decent skills and works hard but not sure he's the answer. I think he's very reliable but age is against him now (33 at start of season) and he has a significant injury run in the past year.

I'm not sure Anscombe sees him as a more influential option than Williams either.

I think he does - he started away against Northampton in the HEC.

Not much use to us on the physio's table, however. I'm worried he's come back just as he starts to fade.

Not all NIQ players are signed to start. Nathan White, Quinn Roux etc. Munster don't have a decent quality back up scrum half. I don't agree with it but this is supposedly how the guidelines work so if they were to sign one, Ulster would be up against it to re-sign Pienaar. Munster had to get AIL player to take a short term contract for this season. I'm sure they'd much rather be able to sign a Currie Cup scrum half to start 15 games a season rather than rely on their other options which they don't appear to particularly rate.

Agree on the concept that the presence of better players allows young players partake at a higher level. Pienaar takes a huge amount of pressure off Jackson and lets him develop steadily. It's a touch of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

dregin wrote: »

Do you not think he's holding Jackson back by taking the kicking duties from him and Marshall back by taking his place at 9? I think those are two points that the IRFU would also look at when weighing up the pros and cons.

Well he's not holding Marshall back from playing for Ireland as Marshall isn't good enough, or at best he could do a job from the bench but with Murray, Marmion and McGrath coming through as well as having Boss and Reddan who still have a bit of rugby left in them I really don't think this should be an issue.

As for holding Jackson back with goal kicking, simple solution, make Jackson take the kicks.

Buer wrote: »

Not all NIQ players are signed to start. Nathan White, Quinn Roux etc. Munster don't have a decent quality back up scrum half. I don't agree with it but this is supposedly how the guidelines work so if they were to sign one, Ulster would be up against it to re-sign Pienaar. Munster had to get AIL player to take a short term contract for this season. I'm sure they'd much rather be able to sign a Currie Cup scrum half to start 15 games a season rather than rely on their other options which they don't appear to particularly rate.

Agree on the concept that the presence of better players allows young players partake at a higher level. Pienaar takes a huge amount of pressure off Jackson and lets him develop steadily. It's a touch of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

I think Ulster will be up against to keep Pienaar, apart from anything he himself may want to go back to SA the year before the WC, however he has hinted that he'd like to stay. I would say that while Munster do need cover for Murray it would not benefit Irish rugby to get rid of Pienaar to enable Munster to sign a back up 9 to Murray.

Of course one solution might be to give Ulster Murray and then let Munster sign their Currie Cup 9;)

The serious solution is to not have black and white rules and where necessary allow two NIQ scrum halves to ply their trade in Ireland, especially if one is just a back up.

Buer wrote: »

In fairness, Marshall is holding Marshall back. He'll fill in but he has never been good enough to be a good HEC scrum half. He's a good impact sub but I'd hate to have him dictating play from the off in a tight, physical game.

The IRFU might use it in their argument but it wouldn't hold much weight. We all know that, with all players fit, Marshall definitely will not be in the Irish 23 and isn't a kid anymore.

They'd be better of using the case of Michael Heaney as part of their argument to be honest. Not that I want to help their case!

Actually thinking about it, Marshall or Heaney could go to Munster to solve their back up 9 problem.

Indeed. Paul Marshall has over 100 appearances for Ulster over 50 of which are starting. The guy has had loads of time on the pitch to develop. He just hasn't delivered consistently.

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

I really don't agree with that opinion. Botha's contract was extended just as Muller and Nacewa's contract were before him. Yes Ulster had a TH prop in place, but Munster lost a South African international and one of their NIE spots in order to keep the 33 year old Botha on. When you look how Ulster and Leinster were allowed use medical jokers to cover when they weren't completely needed, Munster are hardly the ones getting a great deal.

Who were the NIQ 2nd row and 15 when Nacewa and Muller signed their deals?

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

When you look how Ulster and Leinster were allowed use medical jokers to cover when they weren't completely needed, Munster are hardly the ones getting a great deal.

You know that Thorn (I assume you're referring to him) was just taking an available NIQ spot? He wasn't an additional signing.

Terblanche was a direct replacement for Payne who was ruled out for an entire season. I don't understand why anyone would have any issue with that.

Melck was signed as cover when Leamy was injured. Morland was brought in when TOL was still recovering. No big deal.